Manufactured or not, PastorGate is a big deal.

[NJSecularist]

The Swift Vets and POWs for Truth commercials were manufactured. It didn't matter. They stuck. They ultimately costed Kerry the presidency.

Those who don't think this is a big deal are kidding themselves - the Rethugs will do anything and everything possible in the Fall to tie this pastor's hateful speech to Obama. They have done it expertly before - Lee Atwater and Willie Horton come to mind. Those who think that the general public - the swing voters - are smart enough to not fall for this... think again. They aren't.

Obama better extinguish the flames as soon as he can - because the fire could be massive (and deadly) come November.

Everybody is saying that Obama is so "electable" - but we were saying the same things about Dukakis in 1988. Then the Rethugs painted their own picture of him during the general election and the public bought it. They are licking their chops to do the same thing to Obama in the Fall, and Obama is giving them some ammo.

For goodness sakes, I want to win an election.

[wndycty]

1. It worked, it is undermining your support of Obama. . .

. . .:kick:

[NJSecularist]

4. Do you want to win an election or not?

This kind of shit damages campaigns. To say otherwise is being naive. You simply don't know how the Rethugs work if you think otherwise.

I'm tired of the Obama supporters who think Obama does not wrong. That he can't be criticized at all.

[wileedog]

8. A HIllary supporter worried about...

...damaging the Dems chances of winning the GE.

How quaint.

[loveangelc]

43. NJSecularist is an Obama supporter

[wileedog]

59. Doh, my apologies then

Although last I heard Rezko was going to destroy Obama.

This one will be well played out in a couple of weeks and the next 'controversy' will take its place.

[Bake]

97. Rezko is just shady dealing - allegedly.

That pales by comparison with "God Damn America." Rezko could be swept under the carpet, even if true. "God Damn America" will be on every billboard, every radio station, every TV channel. The Swift Boaters WISH they'd had something like this back in 2004!!

NJSec is one of the few Obama supporters who is at least honest and thoughtful. And what happens? The Obot immediately labeled him/her a Hillary supporter. That alone should make you stop and think.

Bake

[Political Heretic]

131. I believe you're overestimating how much weight someone's ex-pastor is going to have

while at the same time the actual candidate is bringing the full force of his campaign, charisma and persuasiveness to bear.

It is not directly comparable to Swift Boat - those were attacks against John Kerry himself, not some ex-pastor and crazy old friend of his. If Wright was running for office, he'd be finished right now. That's the difference. He isn't. And Obama didn't say any of these things. Ever.

[elixir]

56. Yes, just like a Hillary supporter ignoring Ferraro's race comments. We, meaning all

democrats, care about the GE. Whoever the nominee is, I want them to beat McCain and this kind of liability is a killer. White v black - not good.

[scheming daemons]

10. The Rethugs have been parroting this for 6 months.... and Obama has effectively answered it...

...and will continue to do so.


Relax.

[2rth2pwr]

52. How long have the videos been available? nt

[elixir]

58. Let's hear his "effective" response. What is it?

[Bake]

99. He calls Wright his "crazy uncle in the attic."

Yeah, that's real effective.

:sarcasm:

Bake

[KoKo]

103. One could almost say Ferraro was Hillary's Crazy Auntie in the attic?

:eyes: As far as I know...Ferarro isn't Hillary's Pastor at a church she attends with her husband and Chelsea.

[Iceburg]

118. There is no way to spin unadulterated hate and a 20 year affiliation with it

[Bake]

120. Exactly. That's why this one is going to stick.

Obama should have been vetted by the party in the first place. Supposedly "everyone" knows about the history of this church and the controversial nature of Rev. Wright's messages. I had no idea about it, but if the PTB did know, and did nothing, they've just handed the White House to McCain.

This cannot be spun. It cannot be ignored. And it WON'T be ignored in the fall, when the Pukes hammer Obama with it.

Bake

[Bullet1987]

12. I agree it can hurt him...

but if you admit that a manufactured smear is making you second guess him...when you ADMIT that it's manufactured...says something about you as a supporter.

[NJSecularist]

18. I am still a supporter.

I was a Kerry supporter in 2004. He got taken down by a manufactured smear. That is a fact. The same thing could happen to Obama.

[TwilightGardener]

80. So what? Jesus, no matter which candidate we run, there's going to be smears--

and guilt by association--and words out of context--and bad legislation--why worry about it? Most people aren't going to care about Obama's nutty preacher, because most Americans have HAD nutty, over-the-top preachers and priests and pastors and rabbis if they attend any church or temple long enough. You want something that is unattainable--a 100% bulletproof candidate. It wasn't Edwards, it ain't Obama, and it sure ain't Hillary. You just need to learn to live with risk.

[elixir]

61. It's not a manufactured smear. How long do you think this would be a secret?

The GOP are masters at taking info like this a weaving a beautiful tapestry of doubt, fear and hate in the electorate.

[anamandujano]

81. Agree, it's not manufactured. It's real and it's important.

[wndycty]

This is not "an Obama does no wrong" situation. . .

. . .but this is about his minister. Tell me exactly what Obama did wrong, how this is in keeping with a pattern for Obama supporters or supports his strategy. This is so different that what the Clinton camp is pulling.

[NJSecularist]

22. It doesn't matter if Obama did anything wrong personally.

This is guilt by association, something the Republicans have done very well over the years.

[Bake]

100. What Obama did wrong was continue to go to Wright's church.

He should've walked out years ago. Especially if he ever thought about any political aspirations beyond the state level.

I promise you that if my pastor ever said anything like "God Damn America" I'd walk out before he finished his sentence. And that's exactly what Obama should've done. Unfortunately, it's too late to do that now.

Bake

[Benhurst]

117. Hell, I'd walk out if a preacher said "God damn Iran." What sort of "Christian"

behavior would that be. And "God Damn America"? Jeez!

What fine moral leadership! And Obama dedicated his book to him?

[Bake]

121. Not only that, Wright was the "inspiration" for the title The Audacity of Hope.

How inspiring.

Bake

[Bluerthanblue]

24. what is it that you seek? Should he lie and

denounce the man as a human being? Should he call for his crucifixon?

Are you being completely honest here? Is it the 'rethugs' that you want him to pacify or is it your own discomfort?

The words of his pastor don't trouble me, nor are they 'new'-

When you post threads like this, YOU make this an issue- and fan flames on a fire that has little substance unless it is fed by the baggage of others.


peace~

[NJSecularist]

28. He should seperate himself from the man in all facets.

Keeping connections with this pastor is political suicide. Period. He already said that he was one of his biggest inspirations in life. It's already bad enough.

[Bluerthanblue]

47. I would lose respect for him if he did, and I know

I'm not alone. If he were to truly cut this person out of his life for 'political' reasons, because of pressure by people who actually don't give a fuck about the man, but just want to use their connection to stoke their own personal bigotry or fear-
He wouldn't be the person I believe he is.

peace~

[Bake]

101. Then he is UNELECTABLE.

Nobody associates with somebody who preaches God Damn America and gets to the White House. Nobody.

Bake

[Bluerthanblue]

129. we shall see-

you are doing your level best to ensure that I see.


peace~

[Benhurst]

31. Where have you been?

He is "The One."

[Cha]

7. That's been goin' down hill

for some time now..and I see that "Dukakis" thrown around a lot. It's called "wringing the hands".

[bicentennial_baby]

114. Yes it has been, I noticed that as well...

[2rth2pwr]

21. I can see the ad already. Starts with the video of Barak on stage with the other candidates

them with their hands over their heart, his behind his back. Next his statements about why he doesn't wear a flag pin and who are the real patriots, on to Michelle's statement on how for the first time she's proud of the country, fades to video of his pastor implying that America deserved the 9/11 attack and ends with his exhortation to say "God !@?%!! America! (w/o the beeps). fade to black.

[scheming daemons]

Yeah.... and that ad will only affect those people who already weren't going to vote for him.....

...for the most part.

[Bake]

102. Really? How do you think that's gonna play with the INDEPENDENTS??

Holy shit, you people really have swallowed the Kool-Aid.

Bake

[Laelth]

107. That will be powerful, and it will hurt.

You should consider writing ads, if you're not in that profession already.

I understand your concerns and that of the OP, but we had better get used to Obama being the nominee and start thinking about how we're going to respond to that ad. when we see it. Chances are, Obama will be the nominee. If he's not, chances are we lose, and all this discussion is moot.

-Laelth

[Cali_Democrat]

2. What can Obama do to remedy the situation?

[scheming daemons]

5. Like he's always done.. tell the truth.

He says that Wright is that "crazy uncle everyone has" and that he doesn't agree with his viewpoints, but that he is a friend.

[NJSecularist]

6. Leave the church. Distance himself from the pastor.

This is serious. He is running for the presidency of the United States.

[scheming daemons]

13. The pastor has retired... AND....

Did John Kerry leave the Catholic church when he became pro-Choice?


You don't have to leave your church just because you don't agree with them on some things...


Leaving his church would be looked upon as phony and only exacerbate the situation.



I'm glad I've never shared a foxhole with you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. Rev Wright is still the Pastor until May and the timing of his retirement looks bad too

[scheming daemons]

34. ?? The guy is old... people retire when they get old...... besides...

Whether he is retired or not, wouldn't "help" Obama in this situation anyway.


Obama has already said he doesn't agree with the guy.... there's really nothing more that he can say or do about it.

[paperbag_ princess]

33. I have seen you say this several times

but the difference is that the controversy was about John Kerry *not* agreeing with his church leader and them wanting to kick him out. John Kerry leaving in that situation would have made no difference or would have created a perception that he was guilty as charged.

Obama's situation is that people will perceive rightly or wrongly that he agrees...by distancing himself he might improve the situation..

but you are right that he can't just walk away after 20 years...that would look fake.

Imo that is why this could be bad for the GE.

[scheming daemons]

36. He already DID distance himself from his pastor's remarks....

[paperbag_ princess]

62. I agree that he has done all that he can do...nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. I don't think he can Obama has said that "Rev Wright has been my 'spiritual adviser' for 20 years"..

and credited his book "The Audacity of Hope" to Rev Wright.

Obama can NOT separate himself from this man and it WILL cost us the White House if he is the nom.

[Cali_Democrat]

45. So what do we do?

[Bake]

104. IT'S TOO FUCKING LATE!!!

This is one that Obama can't schmooze with nice rhetoric. It's too late to quit the church. He's too closely linked with Wright.

I just can't believe nobody in the party found this out until now. This proves what many of use were saying all along -- Obama had NOT been vetted adequately. We had other excellent candidates: Edwards, Biden, Dodd ...

Bake

[Laelth]

108. Agreed. It's too late.

So we should downplay it, not focus on it, and have a response ad. ready to go when the Repukes air this smear.

No?

-Laelth

[Bake]

109. "We" don't do anything. "We" wait to see how Obama handles it.

And he's got to do a lot better than calling Wright his "crazy uncle in the attic."

Bake

[jeffrey_X]

20. Become an athiest...oh wait, that won't work either.

I also heard that one of his professors at Harvard worships the devil.

He'll need to come out and speak out against him too, right?

[Benhurst]

37. Not unless he's had a 20 year relationship with the professor looked upon

him as a spiritual mentor, and dedicated a book to him.

[anamandujano]

82. 20 years with this guy, 17 with Rezko and Obama stayed pure throughout.

How ever did he do it?

[2rth2pwr]

51. He needs to concede so that Hillary can be our nominee. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

57. OK, I'll let him know. n/t.

[2rth2pwr]

69. Thanks. nt

[scheming daemons]

3. Wow..... Such weakness.... Grow a set....

Obama has answered this, and will continue to answer it, properly.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Yup

I've been saying for a long time that the "Big Lie" against Obama will be that he's not sufficiently "American". This feeds right into that lie, so expect it to get a lot of play.

[NJSecularist]

15. Exactly.

They did the same thing to Dukakis in 1988. I am officially worried. If everybody else isn't, they will see for themselves if he is nominated. The Rethugs are savages.

[IndianaJones]

11. the videos are doctored? nt.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. sorry ABC NEws did NOT "doctor" those videos...those videos were made & sold by the Rev himself

[IndianaJones]

27. then how is it manufactured? nt.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

63. Rev Wright tapes all his sermons "manufactures" sells them for money to anyone who wants to buy them

[oviedodem]

16. Like McCains's spritual "endorser" is going to win him points.

[bling bling]

17. Well then look them in the eye and stand up for Obama.

Enough backing away and defending. Fuck them.

Here's why the Demcorats keep losing. We keep getting all nervous when the Republicans call us unpatriotic and instead of saying "BULLSHIT" we nervously defend ourselves. Here's what we need to say to stupid shit about his friggin Paster:

"Yeah, Obama went to a church where the Paster has said some inflammatory remarks. So the fuck what?? Has Obama ever said anything like that? NO? Well when he does, let's talk. Anyway, did you know that McCain is planning on keeping us in Iraq for the next 100 years?"

What are they gonna say then?

Don't play their game. You'll/we'll lose every time.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. word UP!

you got it!


:hi:

peace~

[NJSecularist]

30. I will defend Obama just like I defended Kerry in 2004

from the Swift Boat attacks. But sometimes it doesn't matter. These manufactured smears stick.

[bling bling]

38. The point is, don't really spend a lot of time defending it.

Just say, "Yeah, AND??????????" and then change the message and turn it back around on them.

We need to be edgier this time. No more defending and trying to "prove" we're not something that the other side accuses us of. It makes us lose.

[Benhurst]

113. One big difference: you were defending John Kerry against lies.

On this issue, you will be defending Barack Obama against the truth.

[enid602]

25. no big deal

It's no big deal; BO was merely attending the church which gave him the most political advantage with the constituency he had at the time.

[Rex_Goodheart]

29. Indeed

[Scurrilous]

32. Seriesly hugh!

Obama is so screwn.

[angie_love]

35. I completely agree. He needs to NIP THIS IN THE BUD ASAP!

He can't just keep ignoring stuff like this and Rezco. It will keep coming up until he answers. I love Obama but he can't give people the benefit of the doubt and think the majority of americans are "smart". They are not. That is one thing I've learned from the 2004 election, americans, alot of them anyway, are dumb as hell.


EDIT: I read that he said that Wright is that "crazy uncle everyone has". Thats funny and effective, I liked his answer. However he needs to disown the guy, sorry but Wrights comments are absolutely offensive. Obama needs to cut the ties completely.

[NJSecularist]

39. I agree with you 100%.

The worst thing Obama can do is giving Americans too much credit.

[angie_love]

66. Yes and its time us Obama supporters talk about how to resolve this instead of

ignoring it and hoping it goes away. I understand it though, when some of the hillary supporters hijack the thread and say "omg its all OVER for Obama, he needs to quit now", rub it in our faces and laugh at us, as I've seen some do. Its frustrating and doesn't allow us Obama supportes to have a rational discussion. Its easy to see why most Obama supporters become defensive over this stuff. However, its important for us to deal with it and talk it over. The only bright light I see is that I'm glad that it came out now rather than later. I wish his pastor didn't say such disgusting things but oh well. It doesn't change my feelings over Obama, however he absolutely needs to come out strong against this or he will be swiftboated like nothing we've ever seen before.

[NJSecularist]

84. We hoped the Swift Boat accusations would go away

And they never did. Kerry hoped people would be smart enough to realize it was BS and they weren't.

[Binka]

132. Why Don't The Two Of You Get A Room

And figure out how to pony up a few bucks for DU. Y'all have been wasting a lot of space on this board for the past few months and it doesn't look like you have been paying any rent. Capiche?

[bling bling]

40. Well Clinton needs to nip her tax returns in the bud, I think.

She's hiding for a reason. I heard there's some interesting money rolling in to the Clinton's from middle east corporations.

She needs to nip that in the bud because that shit stinks and smells a hell of a lot like the Bushes relationships with the Saudi's.

The Clintons and the Bushes are one and the same.

[angie_love]

48. oh no doubt. I worry more about Obama than Clinton though.

I actually give a shit about him unlike Hillary. Anything potentially damaging I get concerned... for better or for worse as they say.

[MonkeyFunk]

54. Can't you stay on topic?

This is about Obama and his pastor.

[Texas Hill Country]

41. The Repubs will annihillate Obama on this... it will make swift boat look like turtle canoe.

[loveangelc]

42. Thank you, and I know that you are an Obama suporter too, like me.

It IS a big deal. Republicans will play him over and over and show the picture of him with his pastor, and him saying that the man is like a mentor to him.

imo he hasn't shown good judgment on this issue :(

[NJSecularist]

46. He hasn't showed good judgement here.

And it's scary how most Obama supporters are afraid to admit it. They act like he is infallible...

[loveangelc]

55. Yes. He needs to denounce him.

whether fair or not, this is going to piss off more people we have to win over than even geraldine ferraro's comments.

[angie_love]

71. true, i'm really pissed this pastor was so fucking stupid and said such offensive comments.

I'm alittle mad at Obama for having a pastor like this I admit. I think he was naive on this issue.

[SeaLyons]

44. PastorGate will be a serious problem for Obama

It goes to the heart of who he is. He's been connected to this church for 20 years. The pastor and the church have influenced who he is. It doesn't look good at all for him. The Church will be viewed as racist and extremist by the republican party and they will run it into the ground. It's already being done on Fox News. If he is the dem nominee, this could be the issue that keeps the White House in the hands of repuks.

[shadowknows69]

49. The shenanigans in Ohio cost Kerry the Presidency

[ProSense]

50. Good thing Dems aren't trying to win the wingnut vote, which is not the same as the black vote

Why does anyone give a shit what Obama’s minister thinks? Seriously? Why does anyone care what Hagee (McCain’s gay-bashing BFF) thinks? They are religious leaders. Who cares what they think- they are paid to peddle mythology to the masses, so who cares what sort of nonsense they spout? Is singing “god hates America” any crazier than telling people if they refuse to follow the wishes of an unknowable, invisible, unverifiable yet presumably omnipotent deity (as documented a couple thousand years ago by people who saw things in the desert after days without water) they will be damned to a fiery eternity in hell. That hell, of course, is conveniently located AFTER you die, so we can’t prove anything about that fiction, either.

So really. Who gives a shit what Obama’s minister thinks? He is just another bullshit artist.

And I know, I know, I am going to go to hell for writing this. Whatever.

link

And this is from former Bush voter turned Democrat.

Ferraro's comments are much worse and a personal attack on Obama!

[loveangelc]

60. Most Americans will probably find Obama's pastor's comments deeply disturbing.

this is not a good thing.

[ProSense]

65. Most Americans will realize Obama's pastor is not Obama. n/t

[NJSecularist]

67. Most Americans will realize that the Swiftboat ads were a bunch of lies

... Oh wait.

Never happened.

[ProSense]

83. Are you equating the liars with a minister? Do you realize that in 2004 Catholic leaders

told voters to vote their conscience, but that a vote for "pro-abortion" candidates was condoning evil?

How many Catholics of any political persuasion have denounced these archdioces and stopped attending the churches in their parishes?

People are going off the deep end about a reactionary speech by a minister. There are far more sinister and evil advocates on the right (Rod Parsley).

[Benhurst]

91. I agree; but most such sleaze-bags have not had twenty -year relationships

with a presidential candidate who considered him a spiritual mentor and dedicated a book to him.

[ProSense]

93. His comments were recent, reactionary and denounced by Obama. So this is nonsense! n/t

[loveangelc]

70. How do you know that?

Don't trust most Americans to be so smart. Many weren't smart when it came to the Swiftboat vets were they?

[angie_love]

75. when did the swiftboat vets come into play? before or after convention? just wondering.

[NJSecularist]

79. First initial ad was on May 20th, before the convention

The 2nd, 3rd and 4th ads.... by far the most damaging ads.... all were aired after the convention.

[ProSense]

86. Because most people don't put a lot of stock into rants by religious leaders and can distinguish

when it's just one person's opinion.

[Occam Bandage]

53. Yes, it is. This is the first Clinton attack that I will declare to be a big deal. This is Obama's

big chance to show how he handles a major-league body blow. And he's had this entire campaign to prepare for this, so he has no excuse if he fucks this up.

[Metric System]

78. THIS IS NOT A CLINTON ATTACK.

[Occam Bandage]

95. If I were in your camp, I'd be happy to claim it. This would be the first

competent attack she's launched in weeks.

[NMMNG]

127. Wake up

Not everything is a Clinton attack. The church videotapes those sermons. Did anybody ever consider the videos might make their way onto the Internet or into the hands of people who might disagree with what was being said? HRC is not behind everything that goes wrong with Obama's campaign. She's just not that powerful.

Who are you guys going to blame when the Clagina is out of the running?

[Vinca]

64. Okay, so it's the general election. Which issue is worse?

"Pastorgate" or the myriad of Clinton sex scandals? Hillary's biggest liability in the general election has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her husband. Republicans are going to bring up every bimbo eruption since the beginning of time and ask, "Is this what you want in the White House again?" I almost feel sorry for Hillary in that respect. She's qualified, but it's Bill that will ultimately keep her out of the White House.

[NJSecularist]

68. Pastorgate

The Clinton sex scandals have been beaten to death and they have nothing to do with Hillary.

[Vinca]

76. So is Bill planning on living elsewhere if she's elected?

I'm just telling you what the Republicans are going to hone in on. It's not rocket science. They'll also drag out the mystery photos being kept under wraps. They almost don't have to run against Hillary as long as Bill is available. She'll be disappeared.

[bling bling]

77. EXCELLENT POINT!! The Clinton sex-scandals will come barrelling out of the closet.

Because that just wasn't enough fun the first time!

American's love a sex scandal more than sex itself.

Bringing "honor and integrity" back to the White House was what got George Bush elected.

And the bad taste will return to everyone's mouth and the Republicans will rejoice at turning every state in America red for the first time in history.

[NMMNG]

128. Hmmmmm, let's see

"President's husband likes to fool around on the side" (like many men do) or "President don't like white folks".

Somehow I think the latter is going to go over worse. And if you don't think that's how RW America is taking that tape you need to go work the Google.

[JCMach1]

72. Hugely damaging because Obama chose to present himself as a man of faith....

And we have learned some pretty shitty things about that faith...

[grantcart]

73. its a deal, its not a big deal and I fully expect Obama to handle it deftly

Compared to the "encyclopedic lists" of Clinton deals however it is nothing.

McCain already has a much bigger deal with the pastors that support him, plus a plethera of other problems closer to home.

It can only be a 'big deal' if the candidate he is running against has a comparative advantage. None of the remaining ones do.

[Strelnikov_]

74. Phase 1 complete. Phase 2, OP Scary Black Preacher, initiated n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

85. this is NOT "manufactured" lies like the swiftboat lies were these sermons are true & more damaging

[amborin]

87. the pastor apparently is still employed by the Obama campaign

[Benhurst]

92. Your reason for believing this? Link?

[Neecy]

88. Big deal to the Dixiecrats, I guess

You all have posted enough threads about it.

[WilyWondr]

89. mccant + parsley = a nogo 4 the gop

mccant can't say anything about wacko religious leaders or
he will get raked over the parsley coals.




http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

[arundhatiroyfan]

90. In my opinion...

it is manufactured, by whomever, to keep the race running for as long as possible. Now Hillary will gain again, then there will be a new "scandal" that will harm Hillary and so on...:tinfoilhat: . You can call me a nutter, but that's what I think.

[1776Forever]

98. I am with you - When Hillary & Bill's records come out & Dubai ties + loads more come out - Yeah

The Shi_ is going to hit the fan and this time it is definitely going to stick!

Let alone the Paul v. Clinton trial in Oct. '08 - time to let the country know what is real and what isn't!

Bill is working or has worked very lately for the Saudi's and Dubai royalty and will be HRC's biggest lobbiest in the White House! And the HRC supporters are talking about Obama??? Get real people! You cannot be that dumb!

It's coming!!!!!

:popcorn:

[Mooney]

94. What makes you think they won't just make up something else if PastorGate is neutralized?

It doesn't matter if this is a legitimate issue or not. The Republicans clearly have no problem manufacturing new smears in the absence of old ones. Even if PastorGate is effectively dealt with and neutralized, they'll just come up with something else.

We have to bring the fight to them. They're already a weakened party with a terrible candidate and a sitting president who's loathed by half the country. If we can't capitalize on those two facts effectively, then we deserve to lose.

We're letting them define this race, AGAIN, and we're taking a reactive, defensive posture, AGAIN. I'm sick of it. This is why we keep losing.

[1776Forever]

105. That is so right on! We must stay focused and not let this get us off track!

Obama is not and has not said anything to make me feel he is in anyway connected to a racist or radical part of ANY organization or Church! Come on! Haven't these people ever listened to a Black Pastor before??? They are intense and passionate! I don't get the whole thing about what they are screaming about. Are there people from the Church in the streets of Chicago rioting? No! These are good people and what they do in the Church is their business!

[JackORoses]

96. quit pretending to support Obama. you aren't doing anybody any favors.

[theredpen]

106. "NJSecularist" -- that says it all

I agree that Obama needs to deal with this, and I'm confident that he will. I'm also confident that it won't stick and that the Republicans can only use this to a limited extent.

The reason why I highlight the OP's user name is that I've noticed a trend. People who express some a priori dislike — or, at least, disconnect — with religious life seem to think this is a much bigger deal than people who have a connection to religion.

Churchgoers understand that you don't necessary quit a church because you disagree with some of what comes from the pulpit. Furthermore, by the time the GE starts, Rev. Wright will be history. Complaining about the "former pastor" is not going to have all that much bite.

My take on this is that people who were looking for a reason to dislike Obama will conveniently find it anywhere; if not in this, in something else. I read some Freeper responses to this (and there weren't many, indicating that there isn't much interest in the topic). This was just another thing in a pile of specious "I hate Obama" talking points. Several Freepers piled on to attack Obama's pastor which still clearly promoting the idea that he's a Muslim.

There are people here in GD:P who like to pile on any perceived weakness Obama has — that's just GD:P. There are also lot's of people who are allergic to faith on DU, and — big surprise — they see this as a huge problem.

Comparisons with the Swift Boat stuff also seem to miss the anti-war activism that Kerry conducted in the 70's. Kerry leveled some allegations against the soldier in Vietnam for which the right has never forgiven him. The Shit Boat Veterans were playing on 30 years of propaganda, not something that just came to light 6 months ago.

[Iceburg]

112. REASONABLE human beings certainly do quit a church when they disagree with a church's philosophy./nt

[theredpen]

125. The offending remarks were not core philosophy of the UCC

REASONABLE human beings research things.

Oh, and out of curiosity, what religion do you participate in on a regular basis?

[Drachasor]

110. Yeah, and the Republicans would never be able to manufacture a dozen things for the Clintons

come on!

[NorthernSpy]

111. We can win this confrontation through brinksmanship.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5059676


The people in McCain's corner are a far more sensitive and potentially explosive issue. But we can't blink, and we can't let anyone talk us out of it. If we're nice, we'll get chewed up. If we don't back down, this stuff is a game changer.

[Iceburg]

115. Or more kool-aid. A racist, sexist nominee with no experience...right.Keep drinking.

[NorthernSpy]

122. "If it came to a choice between Israel and America, I would stand with Israel."

Won't Mr. McCain enjoy that as a 527, huh?


:eyes:


Too late, Iceburg. I've had enough. I don't fear losing. I only fear not paying back the people who have tried to destroy something that meant more to us than you'll ever know.


Whoever blinks first, it won't be me.

[BigDDem]

116. I'm stunned at how naive some people are around here

regardless of who you support, this is big
to think otherwise is fantasy

[walldude]

119. Wait a sec, you know someone who actually thought Dukakis

was electable? Bwhahahahahahahahaha.... :rofl:

[Judge_Mental]

123. John Kerry lost the election.

Blaming the swift boaters is like blaming Nader, an exercise in stupidity.

John Kerry ran a crappy campaign, period. The dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's looked less like a corpse. lol

[NYDem Observer]

124. As an obama supporter I'm a little worried

We may be giving some Americans a little too much credit, many may not be able to seperate Obama's pastor's viewpoints from the viewpoints of Obama himself. He needs to handle this immediately before it picks up steam.

[GeorgeGist]

126. Manufactured Reality ...

is no big deal, unless you fall for it.

[Political Heretic]

130. It's a big deal in a sense. However, its been diffused by this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5088886&mesg_id=5088886

If you don't want to read the thing, short version: the timing favors Obama, and the GOP must be beating their heads against the wall right now. Just like McCain and the Lobbyist, getting this out early helps diffuse its potency down the road. Yes, of course there will be 527s out there that will try to make something out of it. But if Obama, over seven months, can't develop a responsive counter-offensive, then he doesn't deserve to win. But I feel fairly confident that he and the DNC most certainly can.