do other DUers control your actions?

[ulysses]

If you answered "yes", seek help. If you answered "no", then why the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over *any* criticism of Kerry?

Some folks here need to buck the hell up. Politics is a contact sport.

[unblock]

1. please tell me how am i supposed to respond to this?

[ulysses]

3. LOL!

(please tell me that was a laugh line...)

[MoonRiver]

2. That's why we're "contacting" anti-Kerryites!

BRING IT ON! :hi:

[ulysses]

4. "bring it on"?

Great choice of phrase. Welcome to the discussion board, btw.

[MoonRiver]

5. Bring It On = Kerry's slogan. GET IT?

I'm a Kerry supporter.

[ulysses]

6. that's Kerry's slogan?

Where've I been? Just puts me in mind of Bush's stupidity regarding Iraqi insurgents last year.

And yes, I figured out that you're a Kerry supporter. The question is, are you a Kerry supporter who does whatever those wacky DUers tell you to?

[MoonRiver]

7. Here we go again.

First, you try to equate Kerry with *. LOLOL!
Second, you try to equate me with the "wacky DUers". Does that mean you're NOT a bonified DUer? Surprise, surprise! :D
Third, trying to equate anybody with DU is like herding cats. Can't be done. That is unless one is an "outsider" who lumps all those "leftists" in a single dittohead box. Hmmmmmm.....

[ulysses]

9. try reading next time.

First, you try to equate Kerry with *. LOLOL!

Yuk it up, but no. I said that the phrase "bring it on" makes me think of Bush, not that Kerry = Bush. Nice try, though.

Second, you try to equate me with the "wacky DUers".

No, and sorry to hear about your boundary issues. The "wacky DUers" was meant as a tongue-in-cheek reference to those whose criticisms of Kerry, seemingly, have so much effect on you.

Does that mean you're NOT a bonified DUer? Surprise, surprise! :D


Come now, let's be clear. Are you calling me a freeper?

ed. for grammar

[maddezmom]

12. ulysses

what kind of response did you expect from this post?

on dit: I was speaking about the original post.

[ulysses]

didn't expect any particular kind of response,

but what I'd have liked was an explanation of why people expect DU to be a criticism-free zone.

[MoonRiver]

13. I did read, and responded.

Now, to the nitty gritty: are you?

[ulysses]

15. nope.

I'm not, but I'll take your non-answer to be a "yes". I won't bother alerting or pointing out the rules on calling DUers freepers to you.

[maddezmom]

8. "No,"

I'm voting for Kerry in November, if you're not...so be it. :shrug:

[ulysses]

10. thank you.

[Dr Fate]

11. "Yes" because the Mods keep giving me warnings...

...for being to harsh on particular posters of the anti-Kerry left...

To be honest U, this board is more balanced than some might think- TOO balanced at some points...to me practically all I see are anti-Democratic and Anti-Kerry posts...

Here is my take- criticise Kerry all you want, but dont expect to be showered with flower petals when you do it- expect debate, criticism, and some lesser examples of human nature (hostility, etc)...

I'm personally trying my best to keep a check on the bad stuff, if just to stay a DU member in good standing...

[maddezmom]

14. keep yourself in check Dr. Fate

I'd miss you if you were gone:hug:

[ulysses]

16. I don't.

but dont expect to be showered with flower petals when you do it- expect debate, criticism, and some lesser examples of human nature (hostility, etc)...

Fate, you and I have both been around here long enough to know better than that. I just think the criticism of the criticism approaches hysterics at times, to the detriment of any kind of genuine discussion of why some of us might have problems with the nominee.

[Dr Fate]

17. I agree- as well, when I said "too balanced"...

...I am talking about the more outrageous charges and smears against Kerry...

With some posters, it's just a constant drum-beat. When Kerry does somthing good, they are always there to post negative stuff even on the top of positive threads...It just gets old...

Anyway, it is up to Kerry, not Dr. Fate...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. Why is it then when a Kerry supporter defends Kerry

it's labeled 'hysterical'?

If you don't like it, don't read it. What's the big deal?


If you have criticism, state it. If you don't like the response you get, too bad.

[ulysses]

19. that's not what I'm talking about

What I'm calling "hysterical" is the sort of defense that calls anyone who makes any criticism of Kerry a super-secret right-wing infiltrator.

If you don't like it, don't read it. What's the big deal?

This goes as well for all of us, doesn't it? Defense is one thing - and very much to be expected and welcomed - but an attempt at silencing dialogue is quite another.

[Robb]

21. If other DUers don't, indeed, control your actions

...you shouldn't be concerned about your part of the dialogue being silenced. You shouldn't, anyhow, actually. :) That wouldn't do service to any of us.

A criticism of the criticism of the criticism of the criticism I could offer would be that calling it "hysterical" brings to mind a Bob Dylan line from somewhere, "I have become my enemy in the instant that I preached".

[ulysses]

25. hi, Robb

If other DUers don't, indeed, control your actions ...you shouldn't be concerned about your part of the dialogue being silenced.

It was strongly implied upthread - although of course not stated baldly - that I am a freeper because I want to continue to be able to air thoughtful criticisms of John Kerry. That's harmful to dialogue.

A criticism of the criticism of the criticism of the criticism...

:)

I could offer would be that calling it "hysterical" brings to mind a Bob Dylan line from somewhere, "I have become my enemy in the instant that I preached".

Never been much of a Dylan fan myself. Was it the choice of words? I'm not sure what better word I might have chosen for the kind of kneejerk howls of indignation and insinuations of freeperdom that greet even the mildest criticism here these days. Could you make a suggestion?

[Robb]

30. The only suggestion I could make

...would be to point out that both sides of this debate are equally troubled by (and guilty of) quick, broad, and thoughtless criticism.

[ulysses]

31. that's true

but only one side, as far as I can tell, is trying to shut down the debate itself by repeatedly insisting on the enforcing of a set of rules that they steadfastly refuse to understand.

to wit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x16934#16935

[Robb]

34. Again, I just wouldn't characterize it

as one-sided. :)

[ulysses]

35. in this case, I most certainly would.

:shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. Well that's against the rules, so if someone does that you should Alert

What I'm calling "hysterical" is the sort of defense that calls anyone who makes any criticism of Kerry a super-secret right-wing infiltrator.

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, troll, conservative, Republican, or FReeper. Do not try to come up with cute ways of skirting around the spirit of this rule. If you think someone is a disruptor, click the "Alert" link below their post so the moderators can deal with it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

This goes as well for all of us, doesn't it? Defense is one thing - and very much to be expected and welcomed - but an attempt at silencing dialogue is quite another.

You mean like complaining about people being hysterical when you don't agree with what they say? :eyes:

[ulysses]

23. no, in fact

You mean like complaining about people being hysterical when you don't agree with what they say?

I guess I don't understand what *dialogue* I'm supposedly silencing here, much less how it is that I'm silencing it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. Of course

your not silencing anything, but that's not what you said. What you said was:
Defense is one thing - and very much to be expected and welcomed - but an attempt at silencing dialogue is quite another.

LOL -- the whole point of your thread is that you don't want to hear:

the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over *any* criticism of Kerry?

[Padraig18]

20. I'm as independent as a hog on ice, uly!

People here may persuade me through logical argument, but they have ZERO chance of 'controlling' me. :hi:

[ulysses]

27. exactly so

and exactly as it should be, Paddy. :hi:

[mouse7]

24. I dcon't care what you think, uly.

I do care what the other people that read your rubbish rants think, though. Your rants are helping Bush.

[ulysses]

26. hey mouse.

I do care what the other people that read your rubbish rants think, though.

Bonus points for the alliteration, but I'll keep trusting "the other people" to make up their own damn minds, thanks.

Your rants are helping Bush.

Which ones and how? Please be specific.

[Forkboy]

38. in the long run the blinders only mentality will only help repubs

Thinking beyond November isn't helping Bush,it's helping us.

[Zorra]

28. True. Politics is a contact sport. But the game is over.

Kerry won.

Now let's make sure he wins in November instead of letting Karl Rove recover our fumbles.

[ulysses]

29. the game doesn't end,

much less is it over now.

Kerry is indeed the nominee in all but name, but that's not the point. I'm going to vote for him and may even do some campaigning, but that's not the point either.

The point is that, in my view, Kerry needs to hear from the left *continuously* through the campaign and, if he wins, through his time in office. We learned the danger of going to sleep in a Dem administration with Bill Clinton, and if his hearing from the left means hearing criticism, then so be it.

[JohnKleeb]

33. thats why Kucinich is there

Kerry is to the left of Clinton tho, hes generally opposed to the death penalty, and more liberal on drugs, so hes not the type to get tough on crime just to look good.

[zulchzulu]

32. Criticism vs. clueless lack of knowing Kerry's record

Some of the "criticisms" I've seen hear on Kerry are either from people who:

- Are too lazy to do their homework on the issues
- Don't understand the importance of this election
- Still have sour grapes about their candidate who didn't make it and can't face reality
- Spread lies and distortions about Kerry's record/views

I'm all for intelligent dialogue on issues with the idea that the issue discussed is not left fringespeak.

[Dr Fate]

37. This post itemizes my beef witht the anti-Kerry posts as well...

It it's these things you listed that get under my craw, not the legit. concerns from good Liberals...

[rasputin1952]

36. I believe that dialog is the basis of democracy...

Over the past 3 1/2 years, we have been subjected to an administration that has polarized this nation as few have before it. This has trickled down in many ways. The Dem party has always been a 'scattered' party, while the GOP has been a relatively cohesive party. There are many reasons for this, and I see no reason to tick them off now; suffice it to say, that is the way it is.

"Control" is rarely from outside pressure...people rebel at such notions; individuals are 'controlled' because they WANT to be controlled. They want a simple way out, without responsibility, this is the GOP way, (albeit simplified).

Here on DU, the diversity of the site population ensures different avenues of thought. The big problem I have with the 'anti'-Kerry camp, is that there are quite a few that are fighting months old battles, they have not moved on, and there is a general refusal to accept Kerry as the nominee. Call it 'sour grapes', denial, or just plain pissed off; in essence, it is an emotional, not intellectual response to what has happened.

To be blunt, Kerry was not my first, nor second choice but at this juncture, there is no other candidate that can take on bush. This is a fact, and an obvious one at that. I cannot, nor would I ever, deny a persons right to DISCUSS their arguments on these boards within the rules. However, meaningless attacks serve no purpose, except to inflame and and separate people further, Intelligent discourse is shoved aside, and tawdry attacks, by both sides, just aggravate, and do not salve the wounds.

I would hope that NO ONE at DU would allow themselves to be 'controlled'. I would hope that people feel safe to post what they think are serious comments about this issue, and receive answers to queries, or give answers to queries. No one should have any fear to post what they see as valuable on DU.

Just my 2 cents...:)

[WillyT]

40. They Used To, But I Had The DU Chip Removed From My Head !!!

I use it as a coaster now.

:shrug: