Hillary supporters - I don't get it. Why is Hillary STILL in the race?

[Hawkeye-X]

She's bleeding superdelegates, she lost WY and expected to lose MS and is literally wasting the Democratic Party's time with her campaign when we should be focusing on the General Election. She has lost in the delegate race and has literally no way to catch up. Why the hell is Hillary still in? Is Hillary deliberating destroying the Democratic Party?

Well, if that is the case, then the Democratic Party needs not only force her out, but demand her Democratic Party card and go the way of Joe "Fuck you Democrats" Lieberman.

She is literally pulling a Lieberman right now, and it's disgusting. Are the Hillary supporters of one track mind?

Answer my questions, thanks.

Hawkeye-X

[Obamaniac]

1. Ego, hubris, spite...

Take your pick.

[mudesi]

2. I think DU should declare it over

This is nonsense. She can't win and won't win. It's mathematically impossible.

[Joe the Revelator]

3. Good question.. Aside of acting as a McCain spoiler, whats the point of her

staying in the race at this point?

[Mooney]

4. To permanently destroy her credibility and future viability? n/t

[maddiejoan]

5. Hmmm. Let me think

She's ahead of him in the Democratic vote and the overall popular vote.

New Network Estimates: Hillary Now Leads Sen. Obama in Popular Vote

ABC & NBC reporting that Hillary’s received thousands more votes than Sen. Obama in this year’s contests

Hillary Clinton has received more votes than anyone else running for President this year, Democrat or Republican, according to new estimates from ABC and NBC News. The new numbers -- bolstered by decisive wins in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island. Following are the latest estimates from the networks:

ABC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,568,891 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,565,339.

NBC/MSNBC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,521,832 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,497,175.

In addition to the overall lead in votes, Hillary holds a significant lead in votes among Democrats. Hillary has received nearly 10.3 million votes among Democrats so far while Sen. Obama has received 9.2 million.

As we head to Pennsylvania --that gap will only widen.

Obama will have a lead in pledged delegates --but not by anything that will matter much in a brokered convention.
Hillary with her bigger State wins, will have a compelling case to make.

[Hawkeye-X]

9. Obama is leading the popular vote, not Hillary

Popular Vote Total - -

Obama: 13,005,114*

Clinton: 12,414,786

Not counting FL and MI at this time....

[maddiejoan]

15. why is your info better than mine?

[Hawkeye-X]

25. Because it's accurate?

Whatever polls you found is wrong, actually.

You keep including MI and FL, which is factually wrong.

Hawkeye-X

[greyghost]

45. No, it isn't. Michigan and Florida will be seated at the

convention. PERIOD

[Gore1FL]

51. The might get chairs

but they won't get a vote in at least the first ballot, unless something is worked out.

[Joe the Revelator]

61. Not without a revote. Even that doesn't help McClinton.

[girl gone mad]

70. Not a chance.

America's not a banana republic (yet). With Obama's name left off the ballot in Michigan and no campaigning allowed in Florida, those elections simply aren't valid.

[Joe the Revelator]

17. Its funny you said the same thing 4 different times in order to make it seem that there were

substantial reasons for her to still be in the race. And do you have a link to any of those estimates?

Also, I should mention, that the process is not made to win the popular vote, its made to win the delegates. Sorry Clinton is losing so badly in that arena. Its the only one that counts.

[maddiejoan]

20. not by enough to build a solid case for Obama

sorry

[Hawkeye-X]

37. OK. What would make you switch over to Obama then?

I'm listening..

[maddiejoan]

88. I'll vote for him if he is the nominee

Not sure what you mean by "switch over".

Is he running in a different Party?

[greyghost]

47. Less then 100 isn't badly.

[Joe the Revelator]

58. At this stage? Hell yes it is. The math isn't there for her to make it up.

[Gore1FL]

75. It'll probably be more than 100 probably 100-175 more.

but lets assume 75, shall we?

75 is about 9.5% of the Super Delegates. Which would mean she would need almost 60% of the Super delegates.

100 is about 12.6% of the Super delegates. Which would mean she would need almost 63% of the super delegates

125 is about 15.7% of the Super Delegates. Which would mean she would need almost 66% of the Super Delegates

150 is about 18.8% of the Super Delegates. Which means she would need almost 69% of the Super Delegates

175 is about 22% of the Super delegates. Which means she would need almost 72% of the Super Delegates.


But lets look at where the super delegates stand, now, OK? That should give you an advantage right? Obama 210 to Clinton 242 with 344 remaining

If Obama comes in with a pledged delegate lead of:

75 Subtracting Clinton's 32 Super delegate lead = 43. 43 is 12.5% of the remaining super delegates. This means she would need 63.5% of the remaining Super Delegates.

100 Subtracting Clinton's 32 Super delegate lead = 68. 68 is 19.8% of the remaining super delegates. This means she would need 69.8% of the remaining Super Delegates.

125 Subtracting Clinton's 32 Super delegate lead = 93. 93 is 27% of the remaining super delegates. This means she would need 77% of the remaining Super Delegates.

150 Subtracting Clinton's 32 Super delegate lead = 118. 118 is 34.3% of the remaining super delegates. This means she would need 84.3% of the remaining Super Delegates.

175 Subtracting Clinton's 32 Super delegate lead = 143. 143 is of the remaining super delegates. This means she would need 91.6% of the remaining Super Delegates.



As you can see, less than 100 is still pretty bad In fact it is pretty dismal. It is pretty hard to believe that 60% or more of the Super Delegates are going to overturn the pledged delegate counts. I have yet to see a realistic scenario in when she comes to Denver with less than a 100 delegate deficit, and I have yet to hear anargument compelling enough to make a 20% margin of super delegates giving the second place candidate the nomination.

If you would like to try to creat one, start here:

http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter/

Please post your scenario and Then describe realistic arguments that could be used to sway that many Super delegates so that both the scenario and the arguments can be examined.

Thanks

[Catherine Vincent]

6. "Answer my questions, thanks."

:eyes:

[Hawkeye-X]

12. That's all you have to say?

I asked an honest question, and you give me that?

No wonder why Hillary has one-track minded supporters like yourself.

[greyghost]

50. Give me a break. I'm at the point that I want to see Obama lose

just to shut you people up.

[Hawkeye-X]

52. Then you don't belong in DU then.

[greyghost]

56. I've been a Dem since McGovern and you idiots aren't pushing

me ANYWHERE. If Obama makes it he gets my vote. If he doesn't I get to laugh at Obamabots. Right now that seems like more fun.

[mtnsnake]

78. WTF are you talking about? This is still the primaries

and anyone has a right to express that they want to see Obama lose.

The rules change when the Primaries are over.

[greyghost]

91. Thank you

[Saturday]

7. She lost WY? Oh my, out of the 7000 voters that went

to vote in WY she lost by 2000 votes. WY doesn't decide who our candidate is. It's not over, that's why she doesn't get out. duh

[Joe the Revelator]

18. Don't you get it? Hillary had to SWEEP after Wisconson. She can no longer afford to lose anything

and she's losing everything. When is she going to start winning things? Now that its too late?

[Saturday]

33. She has won all the big states where the population is.

Super delegates can change their minds AGAIN back to her and she can still win.

[Hawkeye-X]

39. That was recently debunked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4973190

[greyghost]

53. Debunked by what ? Wishful thinking doesn't count, the heavily

populated states do mean more.

[Joe the Revelator]

40. You're kidding yourself. She lost Texas, she lost VA, she lost IL, the list goes on and on

Super Delegates are about to end this in Obama's favor.

[greyghost]

60. Yeah, sure they are.

[KittyWampus]

35. so you just insulted Democrats in Wyoming & you think their super delegates will support Clinton

[Az_lefty]

92. yea, to Hillary WY is another don't matter state...

you can't win the general election with the arrogance displayed by Hillary Clinton.

[rodeodance]

8. cause she has over half of the voter so far. How silly can you be? not keeping updated are you!

[KittyWampus]

38. she is still losing the popular vote.

[rodeodance]

77. nope---

[skooooo]

10. So her husband can shill for her on the Rush Limbaugh show.

[BlueJac]

11. So she can support Mc Same........

The money is coming in and she does not want that to change. She is a 'MONSTER' in politics and we must and will break the chain this year or we are doomed!!

[IndianaGreen]

13. And McCain's poll numbers have risen since Hillary threw the kitchen sink

Hillary is hell-bent on stealing the nomination, or seeing the Democrats lose in November.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. 2012

That's why she's supporting McCain - he's unlikely to be a two-termer.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. I'm going with "sense of entitlement" and "selfcenteredness"

[mtnsnake]

19. Why? Because she's a true Democrat and you're a World Class fool

[IndianaGreen]

21. A "true" Democrat like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller?

Hillary endorsed McCain's bona fides for the Presidency, much as Lieberman and Miller endorsed Bush.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. John Kerry asked McCain to be his VP in June 2004! Gore had Lieberman....now what?

[mtnsnake]

30. That had to be the most embarrassing Democratic moment EVER when Kerry courted McCain

John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has repeatedly and personally asked Senator John McCain, the independent-minded Arizona Republican, to consider being his running mate, but Mr. McCain has refused, people who have spoken to both men said Friday.

Mr. Kerry, the Massachusetts senator, made his first direct overtures to Mr. McCain about three weeks after locking up the Democratic nomination in March and approached him again, in person or by telephone, as many as seven times, as recently as last week

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D81230F931A25755C0A9629C8B63

[Hawkeye-X]

43. Except you got it completely backwards.

Kerry said that McCain APPROACHED him, not Kerry for VP slot.

Here's the evidence:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/4/3/11936/97033

[mtnsnake]

57. Only an Obamawhiner would take some poster's word from MyDD over the NY Times. LMFAO

John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has repeatedly and personally asked Senator John McCain, the independent-minded Arizona Republican, to consider being his running mate, but Mr. McCain has refused, people who have spoken to both men said Friday.

Mr. Kerry, the Massachusetts senator, made his first direct overtures to Mr. McCain about three weeks after locking up the Democratic nomination in March and approached him again, in person or by telephone, as many as seven times, as recently as last week

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D81230F931A25755C0A9629C8B63

[Tom Joad]

46. It would have been more respectable for Kerry to do "recruiting" for a partner in an airport

restroom, by tapping his feet.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. ROFL

:thumbsup:

[karynnj]

42. Kerry never offered him the VP, though McCain has occasionally lied and said he did

He also has said he didn't. This is a McCain problem.

[mtnsnake]

81. No official offer was made, but Kerry courted him for it & he never denied that

to this day.

[karynnj]

94. that was NOT Kerry's story ever

The only Kerry comment was that the McCain people reached out to his people - and that it ended well before it began - when McCain was not interested in becoming a Democrat. This was well before Iowa and there was no offer of a VP. It was always rumor - with quotes from Biden (on it being interesting - not that Kerry would do it or had offered it) and lots of pushing it and a claim that Bush in 2000 really wanted McCain from the McCain people. Part of why it took on a life of its own was that the media had their pollsters poll it and it did exceptionally well. The media who liked McCain - far more than Kerry or any Democrat - was intrigued by it and they pushed it.

The only direct Kerry comment was in 2006 when he was asked - it was clear that that was from the time when the Democrats were courting McCain to follow Jeffords. In 2004, he said nothing.

[Hawkeye-X]

23. True Democrat? I don't think so.

Hillary endorsing McCain in a different is not exactly what I had in mind in True Democrat.

Hillary has been throwing everything and playing Rove's playbook to the hilt. That is not a True Democrat.

Staying in the race is not a True Democrat - she is a Clintoncrat and of one track mind, and further damaging her credibility and responsibility.

Furthermore, She is on the Leadership Team of Al "I'm a Secret Republican" From's DLC.

DLC is dead to me, and has always been dead to me.

come on mtnsnake, come on - what's wrong with Obama that you STILL have to stay with Hillary?

I'm waiting...

Hawkeye-X

[mtnsnake]

27. I counted 4 lies in your post. When you stop lying, maybe I'll answer your question. n/t

[Hawkeye-X]

44. Uh-huh. What lies are you claiming?

and do you have factual evidence to back it up?

I'm waiting.

Hawkeye-X

[mtnsnake]

55. They're in the first four sentences of your previous post

Hillary endorsing McCain in a different is not exactly what I had in mind in True Democrat.

Hillary has been throwing everything and playing Rove's playbook to the hilt. That is not a True Democrat.

Staying in the race is not a True Democrat - she is a Clintoncrat and of one track mind, and further damaging her credibility and responsibility.

Furthermore, She is on the Leadership Team of Al "I'm a Secret Republican" From's DLC.

1- Hillary never endorsed McCain in the sense you and all the other Obamawhiners are talking.

2- Hillary has NOT been playing Rove's playbook just because you say she is. If she is, then Obama is, too.

3- Hillary IS a true Democrat. She does NOT have a one track mind, and she is not further damaging her credibility just because you and all the other sore losers say so.

4- She is not a "Secret Republican". That is just ridiculous.

BTW, speaking of the DLC there's a reason why Obama is so high on their list of interesting people. It's because his agenda during this campaign is more DLC than anyone elses by far. His "reaching out to Republicans" theme is DLC to the core.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. True Democrats don't endorse republican candidates.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. John Kerry asked McCain to be his VP in June 2004! Gore had Lieberman......Obama loves repukes

[Joe the Revelator]

36. This is your excuse for Hillary's most shameful moment (which is saying a lot)?

McCain wasn't running against Kerry in 04, he was reaching out for a unity ticket and was raked over the coals for it

Liberman was a decent democrat in 00.

McCain is the republican nominee for President in 08. Hillary is a dopey DINO.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. latest super delegate count Hillary leads and we'll see ya in PA!

Superdelegate Comparison

Clinton

DCW 243

CNN 238

CBS 245

AP 242

Obama

DCW 203

CNN 199

CBS 201

AP 210

Updated 3/7/2008

[greyghost]

65. Lovely, simply lovely.

[KoKo]

28. They stay there because their candidate is getting votes and to ANNOY...YOU!

:D....

[McCamy Taylor]

31. Because she likes a challenge and does not quit when the going gets tough?

[Straight Shooter]

32. Well, part of the reason is because voters like me want her to stay in the race.

There are so many things that can happen in this freaky election, why give up just because the other side says to? Why make it easy for Obama; if he's so tough, let's see what he's made of in the long run.

Also, if Obama is going to be the nominee, AFAIC, that light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train wreck. I would like to postpone that as long as possible.

[KittyWampus]

41. "so many things that can happen". Like what?

[Straight Shooter]

54. Use your imagination.

For instance, who would have imagined when McCain was tanking to the bottom of the pit that he would be the GOP nominee. Rudy looked like the sure thing.

Maybe Michelle will slip and use the "B" word against Hillary or another gaffe that irritates rural voters. Maybe another Obama campaign advisor will highlight a curious ambiguity. Maybe Bill will have a stroke and Hillary will simply cease campaigning to be with him. Maybe Obama will have a sudden illness.

On and on. Campaigns are vulnerable to the vagaries of fate.

[Diane R]

34. Hillary is still in the race to ruin Obama's chances, and position herself for 2012.

[Hawkeye-X]

48. I don't think so. She already damaged herself for 2012

and noone will be endorsing Hillary for 2012. She'll be a New York junior senator for the rest of her life until she quits (probably in 2012, defeated by a progressive Democrat).

Hawkeye-X

[lastknowngood]

59. Because we need at least one Democrat in the race

n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

62. Since when do democrats endorse people like John McCain??

[jalynn]

79. She

Never endorsed McCain. That is really getting old. She stated her & McCain had experience & Obabma had a speech, how is that an endorsement? You Obama supporters need to get a grip on reality.

[Joe the Revelator]

82. She very clearly endorsed McCain over Democratic front runner Obama

The video shows it all, you can't lie around this one.

[mtnsnake]

63. BINGO

[Quixote1818]

74. Then why does she always lose the most liberal counties in each state? nt

[Johnny Potpie]

64. Mark my words

Despite the will of the voters, Hillary will try to steal the nomination at all costs. The delegate process means nothing to her and her supporters. The problem with some of her supporters is that they can't or won't see how insulted many of us Democrats are that Hillary would endorse a warmongering Rethuglican before she would support another fellow democrat who has at his core an agenda for peace, education, and healthcare for all. I'm totally offended by her actions and words to this end, and will never vote for Hillary even if she manages to steal the nomination from Obama who has rightfully earned it.

GO AWAY HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!You can't catch up now!!!!:grr: :nuke: :nuke: :grr:

[joshcryer]

67. Because of the superdelegates, the pledged delegates have little say in tight races.

That's how the process works.

[joshcryer]

66. Because she wants to win and the MSM is allowing her to stay in.

The MSM could get her out of the race in an instant if it so wanted, but it wants this to go to the convention. It wants FL and MI to matter. It wants the superdelegates to have to decide between a 200 delegate split. It wants the popular vote to be the opposite way.

It wants, essentially, to drag this out for as long as possible. And for better or for worse, Hillary goes along because, surprisingly, she wants to win.

[Medusa]

68. She's running for the VP slot

or for her 2012 entry. Take your pick.

[BzaDem]

69. Because she CAN win. Perfectly fairly.

After PA, FL and MI (revotes), she might win the popular vote.

If this happens, superdelegates will probably flock to her. That is perfectly in the rules. That is not stealing, that is perfectly fair and within all rules. That is why she should stay in.

[greyghost]

71. Exactly

[Samantha]

72. You need to travel to Chappaqua and play that Roy Orbinson

tune under her window:

It's OVER
It breaks your heart in two
But oh what will you do
When he (Obama) says to you
There's somebody new
It's truuuuuuuuuuue,
It's OVER, It's OVER, It's OVER.

All the rainbows in the sky,
Start to weep then say goodbye,
You won't be seeing rainbows any more,

It's OVER!
It's OVER!
It's OVER!

da da da da da! da da da da da!

Let's us know how it goes, Hawkeye! See you when you get back.

Sam

[mtnsnake]

73. Roy wrote Pretty Woman with Hillary in mind

[rodeodance]

76. Hillary is beutiful.

[here_is_to_hope]

83. I just fucking threw up in my mouth...n/t

[Snarkoleptic]

80. I'm going to pop some corn...I'll be right back...anyone want some?

[amborin]

84. she's winning it, that's why

[istopforcookies]

85. Because I want to vote for her

I want to vote for Senator Clinton.

Not Mrs. Clinton.

Not Billary.

Not Shillary.

Not Her Thighness.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

I do not want to vote for Senator Barack Obama.

He supports bigotry against women, lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and transgendered.

Go Senator Clinton Go!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

86. here is just 1 reason...

Obama is running on a promise of withdrawal in 16 months, not "best case scenario 16 months."

S. Powers tell us that Obama is making promises he can't keep.

He's a lightweight on foreign policy and given the fact that we're entrenched in two wars that aren't going well, it would be reckless to elect him.

After much deliberation and research,

I completely support Hillary.

[quakerboy]

87. I am an obama supporter

But... Bleeding super delegates? She is up from where she was a week ago.

Other than that, I agree. It is time for her to figure out how to reduce the antipathy she has created. For the good of the country. The democratic party is nice and all, but it kinda looses meaning if we fuck the country in the process. And thats what a McCain presidency is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Because She'd Make The Better President, Has More Support Among Democrats, And Can Still Win.

I'd say those reasons are more than good enough.

[antigop]

90. I am NOT a Hillary supporter, but, mathematically it is still POSSIBLE

Mathematically, she has not been completely eliminated yet. And she will continue to stay in for that reason.

[annie1]

93. ? is it ok if your candidate finally has to run against someone. wtf is your guys' problem...

with him having to run for the nomination?