Who the fuck does Hillary think she is, saying she "won't accept" FL & MI re-votes?

[99th_Monkey]

Never-mind that Obama didn't even campaign there and wasn't even on the ballot in MI, because these states voided their
own primaries preemptively ... This is just one more transparently arrogant and self-serving slime job on the good
work Howard Dean has done to keep Democratic Primaries fair and above board, and not caving in to states that thumbed
their noses at Party rules. I can't believe her saying that she "won't accept" Michigan caucus (it's the state party's
business how they structure their own primary do-overs .. Hillary's real reasons for saying this are all too obvious ..
not that she give a flying fuck about "disenfranchising" voters, only that she wants to further bugger this whole delegate
seating can of worms by trying to claim she "won" in states where Obama didn't even campaign and/or wasn't on the ballot,
because she knows otherwise she'd get her ass kicked by Obama. Un-fucking-believable. GRRR. :mad:


"I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn't have any choice whatsoever. And I don't think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated."
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/03/06/exclusive-interview-clinton-looks-ahead-to-mississippi.html

Hillary's campaign's talking out of both sides of their mouth, because roughly at roughly the same time, Terry McAuliffe (a key Clinton advisor) said said on MSNBC that she would favor re-votes in FL and MI:
"The Michigan governor, along with top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair, are now saying they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. That's a change from their previous insistence that the primaries their states held in January should determine how the their delegates are allocated.

Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules."

Now the Clinton campaign has begun expressing openness to a do-over. "Let's let all of the voters go again if they are willing to do it," Clinton adviser Terry McAuliffe said Tuesday night on MSNBC. "Whatever we have to do to get people in the system, let's do it."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/05/clinton-camp-signals-supp_n_90109.html

[seabeyond]

1. she wants things her way and hers only, who cares who she fucks along the way n.t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. you obamanites...........

crack me up




:rofl:

[seabeyond]

14. fucking people for personal gain make you laugh huh. they are full of glee on dirty politics

thread.... you can be in joy for ours reading how lack of ethics and morals are a good thing

[peaches2003]

51. Who is that in that picture in your sig?

It isn't the botox queen because there isn't enough pancake makeup glopped on and the face is too thin. Does she have a younger sister or did they find a look-alike about 30 yrs younger?

[yourguide]

98. you are no better than Ken Starr

going on ignore now...


bye bye.

[jakem]

13. "i want the world, i want the whole world!"

[seabeyond]

16. and GIVE it to ME nOw.....!!!!! n/t

[BringBigDogBack]

78. bingo.

[devilindisguise]

100. She only wants democracy to work for the people

They voted. She won in Florida, bigtime. It should be counted. She always whips Obama in primaries. Caucases are only a small percentage of voters. So I see Hillary as a real patriot who wants 'we the people" to have our own say. Obama can never beat McCain, IMO. Hillary can, and will.
And really I see no need for all the filthy language on your part. But I understand.

[ingac70]

2. It's all about her getting to be Pres....

fuck everyone else.

[islandmkl]

3. uh, hillary....

it may not actually be YOUR choice...

[SoFlaJet]

4. Congratulations to The Medusa

she has now eclipsed Lieberman as the most hated person in politics

[death to the DLC]

5. remember the last 30 minutes of Goodfellas?

:cry: is Ray Liotta's character, completely out of control.

[Lucinda]

6. A full re-vote would be fair. A caucus wouldn't. Why don't you want it to be fair?

[scheming daemons]

7. I agree... so why is Hillary against a full revote?

[Lucinda]

11. She said she doesnt think it's fair and she won't accept a caucus.

She's making public comments so she's not pressured to accept a caucus. It seems clear to me.

[scheming daemons]

21. So is a full revote fair or not? answer the question....

...if yes... then Hillary should not be against it.


But she is...... why?

[Lucinda]

36. She's against a caucus.

As am I. If we can raise money for the revote, I'd be happy to see it. I don't think it's likely to happen any other way.

[scheming daemons]

57. She said yesterday she's against a new PRIMARY in Florida.....

...

[Lucinda]

61. Yes, but she'll agree if it becomes necessary to do so.

[City Lights]

74. So she's against it before she'll be for it?

:crazy:

She should come out in favor of it ASAFP because all digging in her heels does is make it look like she's afraid she'll lose if the voters get another say.

[Lucinda]

80. I dont think she's afraid at all. I think its about not getting railroaded into a caucus.

And about not pissing off the people who voted for her in the first round. It's all about the timing.

[Zachstar]

18. You paying for the primary?

[Lucinda]

48. Are you?

[Zachstar]

69. Nope.. I cant afford 10 million dollars.

And neither can they or the DNC.

It's either a primary like caucus like they are talking about (cheap and simple) or a 50/50 split. I could care less anymore because the leaders of FL are taking advantage of this to get the news reports talking about FL and it is bullshit. Is the many reporters there to cover the Shuttle launch not enough?

[Lucinda]

70. I'd like to see a mail in vote. Everyone could participate and it would be cheaper.

[Zachstar]

81. And do you trust that fraudsters are not controlling the mail process?

I am just saying that even for a Clinton supporter you ought to not trust that the Mail in vote will not be tampered. There is simply FAR too much to cover for people monitoring the results coming in.

Just to put it in perspective.

Mail Box to Truck, Truck to station, station to machine, machine to more machines(LoL Skynet! OhNO!), machines to inspectors inspectors to more machines so on so on so on and then delivered to be counted.

A mail in vote is a terrible idea and Clinton supporters ought to not support it either because it is WAY too easy to fix the results.

If you hate the idea of a caucus so bad how about just say 50/50 and be done in FL?

[Lucinda]

89. So there will be mass mail fraud in your scenario? I don't buy into that at all.

50/50 doesn't represent the vote in Florida.
I think that would be fair in Michigan though.

[Zachstar]

93. Represent what vote?

You mean the existing results?

As for Mi they have gone towards a caucus so that seems to be settling down.


I just do not trust that the results will not be tampered with. It may not even be democrats that tamper with them it may be republicans to try to skew things towards making FL more red come November.

However it is their money and they can do what they want. I think a caucus is just a bit more safe for the dollar spent until you get to 10 million (It actually is 18 million but I am just being nice here)

We will see what happens soon enough.

[99th_Monkey]

19. So you think it's "fair" to count delegates from states where Obama didn't campaign??

kind of an odd idea of "fair".

It's Michigan's Dem. Party's business how they structure their do-over, not Hillary's

[Lucinda]

So you're in to not letting everyone have a vote? I'm not.

Both camps need to work for full participation in a re-vote. Don't you think Obama can do well with full participation?

[roguevalley]

54. if a caucus is good enough elsewhere, why is it bad there? How

many caucuses has she won? Any? I don't know myself. Perhaps that is the problem she has suddenly with caucuses. I don't remember her whining about caucuses when bill was running.

[Lucinda]

68. A caucus isn't good anywhere if it provides the full delegates. Not everyone can attend.

[roguevalley]

82. then her complaints should have been before she was losing, not

afterwards. Don't change the rules in the middle of the game. She signed on with the rules as is. Tough luck if they don't pan out. In a good world Gore or Edwards would be the nom. Not this tool.

[Lucinda]

90. Why werent the primaries cancelled if they didn't intend to seat the delegates?

[roguevalley]

94. are you talking mich and florida? They should filet their leadership

in those states for breaking the rules. STupid leadership.

[Lucinda]

99. Yup. And I agree. It's beyond stupid leadership.

[MadBadger]

8. A new Rasmussen poll shows Obama and Clinton tied in Michigan 41-41

[99th_Monkey]

34. Does Michigan assign delegates proportionately or is it "winner take all"?

I think states differ on this, don't they? I'm not sure about how Michigan does this.

[MadBadger]

No state in the Democratic primary does winner take all

[99th_Monkey]

45. Hmmm. that's great. I didn't know that. thanx for clearing up my muddled head on that point. -n

[elmerdem]

66. & the other 18% are...

tired of this shit altogether. I'm getting there myself.

If the dems in MI choose a caucus then HRC can deal with it or cry victim & try to change the rules for a 3rd time.

[VolcanoJen]

73. I'm really rooting for a Michigan Mulligan.

My ass is going to Michigan to help GOTV for Obama!!!

[ericgtr]

10. This is a great example of her willingness to work with others...

Make no mistake, she is a divider in every sense of the word.

[Skwmom]

12. Of course not, she's probably counting on getting Edwards and her

delegates seated from FL.

[Zachstar]

15. Yes let us have a re-vote. And clinton exposed.

I can hardly wait for the FL and MI Caucusus to be announced so that the people there can have a voice to stand up to her.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Why is a caucus inherently unfair?

[WinkyDink]

23. Republicans can vote for Democrats.

[seabeyond]

27. arent there some states that dont allow that. have to be dem? n/t

[Froward69]

65. some are "closed"

some are open... Ohio= open Colorado= closed... Pennsylvania= Closed... Wyoming = Closed

so for accuracy as to actual Democrats voting. Closed is the way to go.

[Zachstar]

38. That is the decision of the state, WinkyDink!

Has NOTHING to do with the caucus system.

Don't spin it.

[JerseygirlCT]

91. Right. Some states have open voting, period - whether they

have caucuses or primaries. Others (the smarter ones, I'd say) only allow Dems to participate.

There's nothing inherent in a caucus that allows Republicans and independents to participate.

[me b zola]

64. It seems as thought they worked miricles for HRC in Texas & Ohio

Who'd a thunk it? Rush gets out the vote for Hillary.

[elmerdem]

67. sort of like the primary...

in Texas?

[VolcanoJen]

72. You mean, like in Ohio.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4943912

[seabeyond]

24. i asked the same as was told her people dont interact with the commoners???? why is she so afraid

of a caucus and obama is automatically assumed to win one? i dont know

[99th_Monkey]

25. To Hillary it's "unfair" to have Obama actually campaign there too, apparently. -nt-

[seabeyond]

this is what i get. they dont want obama to campaign. they dont want level playing field n.t

[Zachstar]

33. They arent. It is just mostly Clinton supporters crapping on them because they don't benefit Clinton

this time around... They worked for Cinton before and it was fine to them I guess..

Anyone that wants to crap on the idea of quick and cheap caucus in Mi and FL ought to start coming up with realistic ways BOTH states can get primaries that cost upwards of 10 million million dollars a state.

Oh and saying "DEAN/DNC PAYS FOR IT!!!111!!" is no solution. These rules were not set 3 days ago. The DNC is perfectly in the clear here. They don't even have to entertain the idea of a revote but they are doing it anyway. The DNC needs the remaining funds for defeating the republicans not paying for a super expensive Primary.

But if Clinton wants to continue this shit I look forward to the big 5 and many supers flocking and ending this.

[seabeyond]

39. why are they not working for clinton. why is she afraid of them. that is what i dont

understand

[Zachstar]

63. Well let us just say it is ALOT harder to take things other than issues to the caucus.

You cant vote and slink away.

I will leave it up to you to figure out what those "other things" are.

[NightWatcher]

20. she thinks she is the Queen

[tabasco]

22. Queen of the Earth?

Just a guess.

[cascadiance]

26. Maybe because she "hates" democracy when it gets in her way?

She'd rather have the fixed votes than the democratic votes.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. Best thread title in a week.

:thumbsup:

[dysfunctional press]

29. why, she's Hillary Clinton, of course- kneel before her aura of inevitiblity...

and succumb to her will.

she WILL prevail.

[cascadiance]

32. Here Rahm's telling you why you should vote for her...

The DLC says you must "obey"! That's why!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. I can verify that that's Rahm.

[dysfunctional press]

85. yup...that's rahm alright.

he used to be my congressman...but we moved one district to the west,
so after tomorrow's special election it's going to be this guy:



bill foster is going to cream oberweis- the milkman and perpetual loser.

[fadedrose]

30. It's time to ask the networks to interview Levin, Stabinow, Granholm, etc.

Let's find out how Hillary will accomplish getting her way in Michigan from those who are able to accommodate her.....our state ELECTED officials. Why haven't the networks interviewed them? What's going on? The Michigan primary story is mentioned all the time, but never the people who put it together. What's with that anyway?

[JackORoses]

31. Too Bad, Hillary! You wanted Michigan to count, now it will.

Sorry that you suck at Caucuses, but noone really cares.

[JVS]

35. Maybe she won't sign up to be on the ballot, which would heavily favor Obama!

Oh the irony!

[OzarkDem]

37. She's one of the candidates; she has a say in it

She didn't cause the problem.

[99th_Monkey]

55. She may not have caused the problem, but now she's trying to shamelessly exploit it

[Vinca]

40. Someone tell Hillary we're not planning a coronation.

King George of Crawford was enough for most of us for a lifetime.

[Whisp]

41. jeebus fricken cripes, what an asshole she is. nt

[wryter2000]

42. It doesn't matter what she will or won't accept

It's not her choice.

Go, Howard Dean! :loveya:

[indimuse]

43. Obama 's name was ON THE BALLOT ...Hillary's name on the ballot...! They VOTED!

Obama 's name was ON THE BALLOT ...Hillary's name on the ballot...! IF both names were on the ballot...Voters HAD A CHOICE and they voted for HIllary!!! And IF you say people didn't think it would count...there were MILLIONS who thought it would and I am one of them...my vote STAYS!! Obama wants to change the rules and blame Hillary for being SMARTER ...

[seabeyond]

46. they didnt get to CAMPAIGN. are people daft. it was said not to count, some people didnt vote

in this country the candidate gets to campaign and a voter gets an election where they are told it counts so they can go out and have that vote counted.

[indimuse]

50. Obama ran National ads!!

that, I think is campaigning...

[seabeyond]

53. how they justify. campaigning, not if you were in texas tues. florida has had a few races

they KNOW a few ads are not campaigning. no.... it was not campaigning

[99th_Monkey]

49. "Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot." Here's the linky poo...

Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/05/clinton-camp-signals-supp_n_90109.html
Here's the context:
"Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules.
The Democratic National Committee stripped both states of all their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates _ including Clinton and rival Barack Obama _ agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot."

[indimuse]

52. I agree... Michigan is different than FL...

Is why Fl voted already!!!

[onenote]

59. are you afraid that she'll get fewer votes if they have a new primary?

And, if so, why are you afraid of that?

Even if Obama does better, why wouldn't HRC do better as well? After all, the assertion is that she has the momentum now. And that Florida is her kind of state. SHe got just under 50 percent in an 8 way race. Don't you think that she'd get more than 50 percent in a 2-way race.

What if Edwards instructs all of his delegates to support obama. Obama picks up 13 and HRC gets nothing. If there is a re-do, don't you think she'd get some of those 13? If not, why?

[JerseygirlCT]

92. In FL, not in MI nt

[eilen]

96. Even if the vote stands, it won't put her over the top.

[superkia]

47. If it were about the voters, they would announce new primary...

dates for those two states but its obviously not about the people. Many people never took off work or wasted valuable time with their families because they knew it didn't count and in the real world, both of those are important and hard to do with out. Clinton just wants the votes for her, nothing to do with the people but allot of her own supporters are so blind and ignorant to the reality because like Clinton, its about her agenda and thats it.


The Clintons are powerful people and if the voters meant something, they should have fought the battle before the battle was over. How can you go back and change the rules because Americans want change? Either give them new dates so everyone is counted or shut the fuck up.

I can understand Clinton doing this because she is part of the elite and paid for, what I dont understand, is her supporters that alos feel the same way she does? I don't get their motive?

[HooptieWagon]

56. Okay Hillary, then take your name off the ballot of a re-vote then. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

76. Ha! That actually seems like the fairest option in Michigan to me.

:thumbsup:

[Slagathor]

58. It was poor sportsmanship for her to campaign in FL as it was...

If FL and MI count, the result is unworthy of support. Nor should those states get a do-over. They made their beds...

[thoughtcrime1984]

60. SIMPLY PUT- SHE DOES NOT WANT THE VOTERS TO BE HEARD

Despite earlier statements to the contrary. She wants to use the results of the votes based on the premise that they were never to count- hell, Obama wasn't even on the MI ballot. Of course she wants to go with those false premise votes! Now there is a chance to have new votes, and she refuses to let the voters be truly heard. We all know where she stands......

[Norrin Radd]

62. "Disenfranchised?"

Where was she in 2000 and 2004?

[Jersey Devil]

71. Hillary outfoxed herself on Michigan with her trickery

She sat back while her opponents removed their names from the ballot one by one until she was last to go and then left her name on the ballot because she intended all along to have the Michigan delegation seated with herself as the only candidate. In short, she was going to steal the Michigan primary delegates.

But her big mistake is that she assumed she would have the delegate lead going into the convention so that her delegates would control the rules committee and put a motion on the floor of the convention to seat the Michigan delegation, after which the delegates on the floor, again with her having the controlling number of delegates,would vote to pass the motion.

Apparently, with all the candidates still involved back then she knew she might not have the delegates to take the nomination outright, but there was no question in her mind she would have the majority of delegates (perhaps combined with someone she'd make an offer to be her running mate).

It just never occurred to her that someone else might be in the lead going into the convention.

[redqueen]

75. She's a lawyer, and that (according to some) is code for: WE'LL SUE!

:shrug:

[jsmirman]

77. Her descent is complete. So now any election where people turn out and vote

is legitimate. That's her conclusion.

Idi Amin got results that were about this legitimate.

She's a smart lady. She has to see the logical extension of what she's suggesting.

So now she's not only trampling on anything she believes to be in her way but also common sense.

It's embarrassing to see a woman that smart espouse something so idiotic.

There could not be anything more shameful than her position on this.

[casus belli]

79. Veruca Salt's on the campaign trail. n/t

[AZBlue]

83. Uh oh. You didn't hear?

[surfin]

84. She thinks she is Queen

This is why half the country who are smart ones, cannot stand her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. NO MORE CAUCUSES!

[dana_b]

87. at the beginning of this campaign, i really thought she was genuine

now I realise that she really ONLY cares about getting elected. What the people want is beside her point. No election do-overs, this state doesn't count or this other state doesn't count, NAFTA-gate, etc. Wow, that's all I can say.

[npincus]

88. "I WON"T accept it!"

"WAAAAAAAAH!!!!"


or....




"Simply unacceptable....off with their HEADS!"

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

95. Why she's Hillary, so why are you surprised by this?

[WDIM]

97. "Whatever we have to do to get people in the system, let's do it."

I say the Obama and Clinton Campaigns split the cost of having new elections.
What is it 20 million. Half of that should be nothing with them making 35-55 million in a month.