And still the berating and hostility marches on...

[rasputin1952]

I have to wonder just how people think that by posting inane blather about the candidate they won't support, somehow equates to gathering people over to their side; really, it just doesn't make any sense. All that is happening is that a few people who insist on responding to threads, keep those threads alive by doing so. Beats me...:shrug:

At the present time, I don't think either of these candidates are "bad", and if people just stopped to take a look, they'd see that both have good points, fair points, and a couple of "not so hot" points. But as I read threads in GD-P, I see a lot of unsubstantiated rumor an innuendo. Oh, and some downright nasty stuff that even the R's aren't tossing into the ring.

I've never been much for tossing dirt on another, I find it a little contemptible to be honest. After all, aren't we all trying to unseat as many R's as we can? Aren't we all trying to ensure that a D gets into the WH? For all that is said on the Boards, you'd think none of us could possibly have little more than hatred for anyone that has a D after their name. Kind of sad really, when you sit back and think of it.

In the past, I've asked people to tone down the foolishness. I understand that we are emotional, but that doesn't mean we don't have to be rational. I've seen posters claim they would vote for Nader before they would vote for one or the other of the current candidates, to me, that defies rationality, and actually comes pretty close to making most people wonder if the posters are D's in the first place. On occasion, I've see people post they would vote for McCain, over, (candidates name here________)...that is not just foolish, but I really have to ask about the sanity of the poster who would post that.

Look...we're all pretty damn good people, we have made it this far, and it has been an interesting ride. Fact of the matter is, either Clinton or Obama will be the next D candidate for president. I don't care that one is female and the other is black, that has nothing at all to w/this election, (although some would like it to be over those two items), what matters is that the one that wins receives our collective blessing. If we lose this election there is no one to blame but ourselves...the R's will not have done it, the Indy's, Greens, Libertarians will not have done it, only D's can lose this election, and we can only do that by being a bunch of spoiled little brats that insist we have our own way as opposed to fighting together for a cause that is larger than all of us...our nation.

What bush and his cronies have done to this country is almost unspeakable, they have torn down the very foundations of this great nation, it is up to us, each and every one of us, to rebuild and get on with ensuring this nation will not crumble under another GOP administration. We are responsible for this election...we cannot win if we keep up the downright stupid attacks on our own candidates.

So, for the umpteenth time, if you have a legitimate argument against a candidate, by all means bring it up for discussion, and if you have a legitimate argument for a candidate, bring that in for discussion. But remember, no one ever got you to change your mind by calling you names and attacking you at every turn, how could you expect anyone to act any differently?

[SoFlaJet]

1. I disagree with this line here

But remember, no one ever got you to change your mind by calling you names and attacking you at every turn, how could you expect anyone to act any differently?


as an Edwards supporter one of the reasons why I chose Obama over The Medusa was the way I saw Clinton supporters acting here-it definitely factored in to my decision

[rasputin1952]

4. So what you are telling me is that if someone, or a group...

berates you, yells at you, calls you names like "traitor", "asshole", and any of a host of other things, you are going to change your mind and join their side?

Sorry, but I just can't see that...:)

[SoFlaJet]

5. Let's be honest about it ras

NOBODY here at DU is undecided at this point-we are all pretty plugged-in political animals and have known who we are supporting for over a month now-nobody is trying to change anybody else's mind...what we're doing is fighting back and forth because Obama supporters hate Clinton and Clinton people hate Obama-HATE...it's gotten to HATE...trust me I know, I have started to fucking hate Hillary Clinton

[Arkansas Granny]

7. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm a Hillary supporter who

doesn't hate Obama. I am not going to let the hateful comments of some on this board make up my mind about how I feel about either candidate. This fall I will vote for the Democratic candidate.

[rasputin1952]

8. Why the hate?...

I can understand disliking either candidate...I find them both plastic at this point, but I don't "hate" either of them.

The biggest question I have, is that out of some 360 million people in this country that can run for president, we have McCain, Obama and Clinton...that seems to be a bit odd to me.

I really am not decided, the negativity has not affected me in the least, I find it disturbing that others seem to believe that by berating people and candidates they can somehow "win" their argument, but for me, until I hear substance from either HRC or Obama, I remain on the fence. Neither of them have earned my support, all i see are two candidates that trying to out-posture each other, and don't even have the courtesy to toss us a bone on the issues that divide this nation. So I really do sit in the middle on this.

McCain...now there is the epitome of a loser, so I don't even worry about him. What I want is substance, I want to see and hear what the plans are to move this nation forward, end the war, shore up the economy, get health care for all...so far, I have heard very little, and I expect to hear very little in the future from either candidate.

My pint is, we've poisoned the well, and yet we continue to drink from it, sad state of affairs.

[racaulk]

12. Speaking for myself here.

I am undecided, and I don't hate either candidate. I have issues with Clinton and Obama and I'm not that enthused about either of them. But the bottom line is they are both great candidates in my view, I just don't have a horse in the primaries. I will vote for the Dem in the GE (because they're both better than McCain), and I'll just sit back and let the primaries play out as they will.

I'm just saying that there are still some undecideds out there, and not everyone hates one candidate or the other. Please put down that broad brush. :hi:

[rasputin1952]

34. I knew there was at least ONE other undecided out there...

:hi:

[ruggerson]

31. speaking only for myself

I've said quite often I don't hate Obama and will vote for him, if he's our nominee.

I just think Senator Clinton would make a better President.

[rasputin1952]

33. And that is good discourse...

:)

[Bread and Circus]

2. It's very simple, we should not be held to any standard our candidates are not held to

and for some reason Hillary is held to a very low standard.

If you want to raise the standard of political discourse, start with candidates themselves. After all, they are supposed to be the leaders.

[rasputin1952]

3. For the record, at this point I am still waiting for issues to

be discussed seriously, I do jot favor one over the other.

I didn't pick who was running, all I can do is vote the candidates we have. I was a Richardson supporter, he's gone, I will support whomever the D nominee is.

[Arkansas Granny]

6. K & R. I wish more posters here would realize that we can disagree and

still have a civil debate about the candidates and issues.

And thanks go to you and the other mods for the terrific jobs you are doing. I know it can't be that easy right now.

[rasputin1952]

9. I don't hate anyone...well, maybe bush and cheney...

and it is possible to have decent discourse these days...we just have to look for it, and leave the lower level to fall on their own...:)

How are things in AR...been cold up here on NE, -5F this AM, even the dogs ran out, did their business and came immediately back in...:D

I think I saw where you all were getting pretty heavy weatherwise, Hope all is well down there...:)

[Arkansas Granny]

16. The weather has been like a roller coaster.

Last weekend temps in the 70's, Monday it snowed, Tuesday night and Wednesday we had heavy rain, last night it snowed again, but it has already melted where I am. Other parts of the state had up to 12 inches. I am so ready for spring.

[Lucinda]

10. K&R - Thanks for the post!

[HooptieWagon]

11. Hey, if the Monster can't handle

the kitchen sink being thrown at her, then she shouldn't have taken her campaign into the gutter. she's trailing with almost no hope of getting the nomination. It was time for her to bow out gracefully, or if she wanted to keep the campaign going she should have concentrated on attacking Mccain. Instead, she endorsed Mccain and smeared her own party's candidate. Monster? - no, even that's being too kind.

[rasputin1952]

22. "Monsters"...this has gotten so out of hand it borders on the

pathetic.

I've seen posts here that are 20x worse, everything form calling HRC a maniacal anti-christ, to Obama being a crack dealer in Chicago. Why would what one person says have any great effect that it has...just fuel for the fire, and the whole thing serves absolutely no purpose in the Grand Scheme of Things.

[terrya]

13. Just a simple thank you from me.

[rasputin1952]

20. How you doing Terry...having fun w/all of this?...

:D

[terrya]

26. "Fun" wouldn't be the first word I'd use to describe this experience, ras.

:-)

:hi:

[rasputin1952]

29. LOL....

;)

[MediaBabe]

14. I'm new here

I'm having trouble seeing why I should stay here at all. I'd like to donate, become a full member and add myself to the power of many but what would I gain? To add my weight to this filth? This cesspool of hate and ignorance. What would my party gain? Is there anything here that benefits Democrats in the fight between Democrats and Republicans?

I come from other boards where the people are so entrenched in their own opinions that nothing could ever budge them. I thought it would be different here because we are all on the same side but not a chance. The filthy language and vile insults here are actually worse than other online forums where the discussion is Rep vs Dem.

And the promise from Democratic Underground is more of the same. This will be tolerated until "there is a presumptive winner" PLUS A WEEK to 'get it out of your system.' Sorry but the Pennsylvania primary is six weeks away and likely will mot result in a decision. I just don't think I can handle this pit that long.

There isn't any meeting of minds here. No trading of thoughts about small issues that help decide the greatest choice and solidify our strength behind the one who will best serve our country. I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion that Democratic Underground is not a valuable resource and not for me.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. Don't get too discouraged. It's really a nice place most other times.

I've been here since early 2005 and I've never seen anything like this before.

BTW, welcome to DU.
:hi:

[redqueen]

18. You missed the 03-04 bloodbath.

Heh...

DEAN IS A REPUKE! HE WAS DLC! HE'S A PHONY!

SKULL AND BONES! SKULL AND BOOOOOOONES!

:crazy:

[rasputin1952]

23. And to think...I thought I had seen it all during the Dean

situation...silly me....:rofl:

[Arkansas Granny]

24. Yes, I did. After seeing the primary season this time around I can

see why the Admins let people change their user names. There have been things said here that I'm sure some posters are going to want to distance themselves from later.

[redqueen]

27. I don't think the name change was tied to the primary season...

but yeah.

[Arkansas Granny]

28. It's quite possible I'm wrong about that. Like I said, I wasn't here

at that time, but I've heard a few posters refer to it.

[rasputin1952]

32. I've been here a long time, I've learned that some people are

simply never satisfied. They are miserable souls that would complain if they won the Lottery..."Damn, it should have been $125 million instead of this crummy $47 milion I won...:grr: "

I tend to avoid people like that, they could depress a saint, and that is their sole purpose in life, make you share their misery.

As for the name change, that was interesting...and you l;earn a lot about people as time goes by. I ahve often been surprised by people whom I have respected over long periods of time suddenly turn into complete jerks...such is the way of things...;)

Hang in there, the vast majority of DU'ers are fantastic people, and those that aren't, just ignore them...:hi: Glad to have youo here...:)

[rasputin1952]

19. One needs a tough skin for anything political...don't let the

relatively few turn you away. I have to say, some of the finest people on the D side hang out here; and among those who sow discord, and it is easy to just get past them, they get carried away. Things will calm down, it akes a while.

But here in GD-P, it has been pretty warm of late, if it gets too warm, just go to another Forum, like GD or the Lounge...:)

One thing though...the few that cast doubt, are few indeed, they are merely prolific posters, and it appears to some they own the site...they don't.

Herding cats is a piece of cake compared to DU during the Primary Wars...:D

[LeftCoast]

15. A big K&R from me Ras!

Great post! I agree totally!

[jillan]

21. Another big K & R !!

[Straight Shooter]

25. Every night I swear to myself I'm NOT going back to GD:P

Every morning I promise myself, "one little peek" and then log off. "One little peek" turns into 15 minutes.

Seriously, though, upon returning to DU after a long hiatus, I was spending a couple hours a day and posting, posting, posting. It was fun to get back into the groove. But now, eh, all I can muster is a few posts, a few quick reads of threads, and then log out. It just makes me too agitated. My comfort level is greater with Hillary Clinton but I will vote for Barack if it comes down to that. Neither candidate actually thrills me, but Gore isn't running, so there you have it.

Good post, ras. :thumbsup:

[rasputin1952]

30. Welcome home....

and just remeber....This too shall pass...:D

It is a relatively few agitators that get this stuff going. I figure if people didn't answer and keep kicking threads, (w/o actually adding anything of substance), 90% of the vitriol would cease to exist.

And to top it off, some people get downright abusive, to paraphrase what i said above, no one ever got me to be on their side after calling me an "asshole"...just doesn't work that way...;)

[Straight Shooter]

35. This too shall pass

Words of comfort to the afflicted, words of affliction to the comfortable :D

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. K & Failed R.

Very well said.

:toast:

[rasputin1952]

37. Thanks...

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

38. kick n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. One can learn a lot amid all the bashing.

Just because something is negative doesn't make it untrue. Just as something positive isn't necessarily true, either.

Wading through all the bullshit, I've learned a lot about both candidates both positive and negative. Granted, 95% is pure BS but that 5% is worth finding out about. And that 95% is sometimes hilarious, often deliciously snarky and always revealing.