I call for the IMMEDIATE resignation of Howard Dean as DNC chairman!

[MoonRiver]

He has done an absolutely MISERABLE job of managing this primary mess. In fact I believe he may be complicit in trying to prevent Hillary from getting the nomination. There's a tremendous amount of bad blood between Dean and the Clintons, and this whole fiasco STINKS.

Bottom line: there is NO way Florida Dems should be penalized for being forced by the Repuke legislature to hold their primary early. Michigan is another story because Clinton was the only one on the ballot and the Dems CHOSE to hold their primary early.

Dean is either totally incompetent, corrupt or both. He has got to go. Put somebody in there, ASAP, who can fix this primary before the Democratic Party totally implodes.

Sorry to say I worked hard to help get Dean promoted to DNC chair. I made a horrible mistake. Dean has single handedly created one of the worst disasters in Democratic Party history.
:(

[Zachstar]

1. Anything for Clinton to win eh?

[hueyshort]

33. I don't understand why Dean let hordes of Republicans

get into our caucuses, given the unusual nature of this election.
As we all see, democratic blogs are being swarmed by republicans.
spewing venom on HRC.

[democrattotheend]

51. States decide whether to have open or closed primaries

Usually the decision is up to either the state legislature or the state Democratic party. Not Dean's decision.

[redqueen]

77. Yup. And I doubt it's republicans talking smack about Hillary.

Their leaders are all cozying up to the idea of her candidacy. I would think they'd be talking her up.

[hueyshort]

96. then why are Republicans voting for her in our caucuses?

Obama is a Republican, according to NYT Krugman.
Clinton has gone further and further in the direction of John Edwards.
She was impressed by him, and has credited him for his contributions.
She started out progressive when making the very first attempt to
change health care - before she was even a politician.

[redqueen]

97. Not because republican pundits are suggesting that they should, that's for sure.

I live in a red area, and lots of republicans are responding favorably to Obama's message.

[hueyshort]

119. like Krugman says, Obama is a Republican

[redqueen]

137. .

:spray:

Allllllrighty then!

[DemBones DemBones]

191. he's a stalking horse for the gop, at the least, and they do want him

to be the dem nominee.

[hueyshort]

243. He will be a weak president

He's a status quo guy.

[bhikkhu]

280. Exactly! The kind of change that stays the same

Thats what its all been about!

[goclark]

211. He has now taken a back seat to McPain's BFF Hillary

McPain and Hillary are in love.
Straight out of Rove's playbook,

[susankh4]

203. Exactly!

As should be the choice of date for each primary.

[Zachstar]

74. The rules were set long ago.

Where were you then?

My guess was not talking about it too much.

This stupid ass game of trying to go after Dean who if I remember right is about to leave anyway is stupid beyond belief! He has done his job well and is giving the rouge states a chance when it is WELL within the clear to ignore the rouge states.

The rules were set long ago. It is just suddenly now that Clinton is not benefiting from them that we have the moaning and groaning.

Many Obama supporters wanted a revote to help give the rouge states a chance. Have been for some time now...

We were calling for them to revote when many Clinton supporters were calling for them to be seated as is.. A move that would have destroyed the democratic party in the end.

Keep in mind this shitting everyone is doing on Dean to try to keep this horse race going on has never worked and never will work. Dean has always been strong... Yet I respect him for having an open mind and accepting the concept for re-votes for states that have broken the rules before.

[Maribelle]

98. Wrong. The DNC rules were changed after Florida passed the law.

Prior to the Florida law being passed, the DNC rule was 50% of the delegates would be lost if sates went early.

[redqueen]

105. Citation?

I asked before and you didn't provide one.

Please? Will that help, if I say please?

[Debi]

160. Actually the rules provide for the Rules and By-Laws Committe to provide

for a stiffer punishment if desired "5. Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions....."

- However if the State can show that it TRIED to stop the date from being moved...well....read for yourself:

7. In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C.
of this rule as a result of state law but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee,
after an investigation, including hearings if necessary, determines the state party
and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all
provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to
bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules
and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders
and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in
attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to
2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention
comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules, the DNC Rules and Bylaws
Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state’s delegation shall not
be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and
convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and
elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to
achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the
pertinent provisions of these rules and that it and the other relevant Democratic
party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in
good faith in attempting to prevent the legislative changes which resulted in state
law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf

[speedbird]

179. did HRC object, when the rule was changed from 50% to zero?

if in fact, that is what happened.

anybody got a date when the 'zero'
rule was adopted?

[Debi]

192. The rules weren't changed

"5. Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions....."


http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d...

I think the DNC stripped Florida's delegetas in August of 2007.

[Maribelle]

249. The DNC stripped Florida's delegates after the bill was passed, the 50% rule was changed to 100%

and additional sanctions were not imposed - - - - - and no one said the DNC did not have the right to do this. Of course they had the right to do this. But they not only shot themselves in the foot they shot millions of Floridians in the head for decades.

The DNC has every right to set their own rules, but they also could have let the 50% delegate loss stand as the RNC did.

The State of Florida has every right to establish their own laws.

And in this instance millions are being disfranchised between the EegomaniacRocks and the EgomaniacHardPlaces.

The greater damage exponentiates the longer this fiasco of a blunder goes unfixed.

[Debi]

256. The rules were not changed - the rules and by-laws committee had several options

and chose an option different than the 50% option. (looking at the rules they also had the option of 0% or anywhere in between 0% and 100% - all rules being put in place BEFORE Florida's law moving the primary up was passed).

You keep saying the DNC changed the rules - no they didn't - they applied a rule different than the one you would have liked seen applied.

Florida officials still have the opportunity to right their wrong and come into compliance with the rules. They should do so.

[Maribelle]

264. Nothing in the rules said 100% before Florida passed the law.

The DNC made up the 100% after the law was passed.

The law was first..passed on 3/21/07 Passage on third reading
The amended bill...passed on 5/03/07 Amended CS passed; YEAS 118, NAYS 0

http://florida-delegates.com/pages/florida-hb537/timeline.php

The DNC made up the 100% punishment and announced it Saturday, August 25, 2007 Twenty two days after the law passed.

DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
Sunday, August 26, 2007
The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.

The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver

If you want to argue that the 2008 rules clearly state that the DNC could do anything that it feels like doing whenever it wants to to it, then that would be correct. But then why on earth do they even have the Violation of timing rule in the rule book to begin with?

Nowhere in the rule book can you find anything about 100% - - but a search on 50% quickly returns results.

The rule book clearly states two issues applicable to my argument:

Issue # 1
C. 1. a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party
provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes
the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior
to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the
event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after
such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to
the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by
fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty
(50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National
Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from
that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation. In
determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s
delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the
nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the
next nearest whole number.

Issue # 2

4. Upon a determination of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee that a state is in
violation as set forth in subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule, the
reductions required under those subsections shall become effective automatically
and immediately and without further action of the DNC Rules and Bylaws
Committee, the Executive Committee of the DNC, the DNC or the Credentials
Committee of the Democratic National Convention.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf

Additionally, my argument also includes: if the DNC had left the 50% stand, we would not have the massive problems with Florida delegates that exist today. The DNC made a huge blunder with this.

In October of 2007 Dean said: "Do I wish this fight weren't happening? Yes,'' Dean said. "In the big picture, of what really matters in the country, this is a very small blip. This is a fight among politicians."

Well, Dean lied here. This is a fight for the voices of one million seven hundred thousand innocent Floridian Democrats because of a few egomaniacs like Dean.

[Debi]

272. And you continue to ignore this part of the rules that were in place

prior to the law being passed:

5. Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions....."

[Maribelle]

274. I guess you need to reread my last post.

But they didn't really impose 'additional' sactions - - they upped the 50% one.

[Debi]

276. It seems the additional sanctions would be the stripping of the other

50% of the delegates. Which by their rules they had the right to do.

[Maribelle]

279. That's quite a stretch you've given to your version of logic.

But no matter how much you've twisted and turned on this, prior to the Florida law being passed Floridians did not know 100% of their delegates would not be allowed to be seated. They didn't know this in Tallahassee. They didn't know this even one of Florida's 67 Counties. Not one newspaper knew this. Not one television station knew this. Not one elected official knew this.

And I would even bet a month's pay that the egomaniacs at the DNC didn't even know this when Florida passed the bill.

The DNC changed the rules after Florida voted, to strip 100% of Florida's delegates. You can play with words all you want, that's exactly what happened.

The DNC sandbagged Floridians. It was beyond foolish of them to do this. It is their fault Democrats have this mess in Florida, while the Republicans do not. The responsibility of this ultimately rests squarely on the shoulders of Dean. He should be working towards resolving this matter, not going on national TV and bashing Floridians even more.

Because of this abject failure of Dean's to resolve this matter as the Republicans have done, millions of Floridians are shut out of this democratic process.

This huge mess will not be going away anytime soon.

[Debi]

283. The Florida Democratic Leadership's failure to read all the DNC rules

before moving forward isn't the DNC's problem. Had they read past the 50% portion you are so fond of citing they would have seen that the rules and by-laws committee could impose further sanctions. They also would have noticed that had the Democrats in the legislature made an attempt to stay within the rules Florida's delegates may have been spared.


"In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C.
of this rule as a result of state law but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee,
after an investigation, including hearings if necessary, determines the state party
and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all
provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to
bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules
and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders
and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in
attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to
2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention
comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules, the DNC Rules and Bylaws
Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state’s delegation shall not
be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and
convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and
elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to
achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the
pertinent provisions of these rules and that it and the other relevant Democratic
party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in
good faith in attempting to prevent the legislative changes which resulted in state
law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules."

Wow, guess that's what comes from READING.

The FDP leadership and it's elected officials screwed Florida Democratic voters. NOT the DNC.

[Gore1FL]

231. The rules were set in August 2006

Fl decided in 2007 to move their primary forward. MI did as well.

2007 is not before 2006, unless you have an "in" with HG Wells.

[sabbat hunter]

241. BUZZZZ

I'm sorry you are incorrect. That rule was changed at the same time all the state party leaders agreed to not move their primaries up, including Florida. The rule was changed so that the DNC chair could decide how many delegates to take away.

Florida broke the rules( the democratic party voted in the legislature to move the primaries right along with the republicans)

[hueyshort]

99. the best thing you can do

is enlighten people with a well-worded piece based with links.
And without resorting to horseshit bullcrap fuck manure name calling.

If you don't do this, then don't complain.

[Debi]

161. Here's a link to the rules -

As you are aware - the poster is in error -

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf

[HCE SuiGeneris]

142. You just crack yourself up with this "irony", huh?

[99th_Monkey]

216. Last I heard, Rethugs were swarming caucuses to vote FOR Hillary at urging of Neocons. ~nt~

[SoCalDem]

253. Hell.. they are VOTING for her..just like Rush told 'em to

and laughing about it :)

That said, I don't like open primaries either..

I think the parties should choose their own candidates :)

[VotesForWomen]

159. uh, we need FL for DEMS to win. maybe all you care about is making sure O is the nominee. nt

[Gore1FL]

234. No we don't

FL would be a nice kettle of Electors, but it is not necessary to win the White House.

[Bake]

269. OK, throw out FL. Throw out MI. Throw out OH.

Your electoral vote count is getting a little thin, there.

You think your guy is really going to carry MS, AL, SC, etc. in the GE? You're dreaming.

We don't need to be disenfranchising Dems in key states. Obama put himself in a bit of an awkward position here, don't you think?

Bake

[Gore1FL]

289. Why thow out MI and OH

current polls show Obama takingboth states agains Mcain in the general.

http://www.surveyusa.com /

[Gore1FL]

290. Oh, and he sdoesn;t need to carry MS, AL, and SC in the GE

But isn't it extremely cool that Democrats are cometetive in states once considered impossible?

[Bake]

295. Of course it is.

It's thrilling that a Dem just took Fat Hastert's old seat in the House, too! Regardless of the vitriol here, I think it's going to be a good year for the Democrats!

Bake

[Gore1FL]

298. Roger that!

[Maribelle]

281. Hillary had nothing to do with the Florida mess.

But y'all just continue showing off this freeper-like hate mongering and blaming Clinton for everything. lol If you think this transparent activity helps Obama, you've got a rude awakening coming.

To the hundreds of thousands of Floridian's that voted for Obama, I send a sincere apology for the rudness shown you by Obama, Kerry, Dean, and the sock puppets here.

[jakem]

2. I call for HRC to IMMEDIATELY drop from the race

[SoonerPride]

4. Seconded.

And I voted for her on Super Tuesday.

But she's lost and it's time for her to bow out.

[Hutzpa]

107. I third this motion !!!!

:thumbsup: :dem: :patriot:

[mckeown1128]

109. I fourth the motion!!!! N/T

[angie_love]

126. I FIFTH this motion!

[L0oniX]

131. I Sixth the motion.

[backscatter712]

144. Seventhed!

[Fox Mulder]

146. Eighthed!

[anigbrowl]

163. Ninthed!

[Joe the Revelator]

166. Tenthed

[ellisonz]

168. Eleventhed.

[Lucky 13]

190. 12th

[Danger Mouse]

193. 13th! You can't win, Hillary!

Drop out now before you hurt your future political career any further!

[Laelth]

209. 14th 'ed.

She can't win. If she does, it will split the party. Her ego isn't worth it.

:(

-Laelth

[WillyT]

219. 15th'ed !!!

:mad:

[stevietheman]

223. 16th... she's done. n/t

n/t

[mod mom]

262. 17th for HRC to DROP OUT!

[tekisui]

266. 18thed

[tbyg52]

270. 19th!

Unless someone else got #19 while I was waiting for this to load, in which case I am # whatever.....

She lost me when she basically said that only she and McCain were acceptable choices.

[Debi]

277. 20th n/t

[IronLionZion]

282. 21st

[krkaufman]

288. 22nd'ed...!! n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

293. 23rdth (or whatever)

[redqueen]

3. Disagree.

Hillary doesn't like Dean too much either, does she?

[hueyshort]

101. do have any links?

or is this more Republican gas?

[redqueen]

104. It was a question.

:wtf:

I figure she must not, since she's DLC, and the DLC hates Dean... as evidenced by their trying to make him look like 'the bad guy' even when it was the DLC members' decision to break the rules despite knowing the consequences.

And now they're all over the place crying like babies... because he wasn't bluffing.

Cute, if you're two. For adults though, it's pretty weak. And transparent.

[hueyshort]

121. It's up to Dean to have the sense to know how to deal

with knarly little problems in such a way that our candidates are not hurt
in the primaries or in the general election.
He should have let it go, when the states stepped out of line.
We're in for a lot of pain, now.

[redqueen]

136. So if DLC clowns break the rules, he should accommodate them?

:spray:

Go on, tell me another one.

[susankh4]

206. Yes it is....

it is his problem. He created it, by trying to play Mr. Tough guy. And, now it's up to Mr. Tough guy to figure a way out... before the party takes too much fallout for disregarding democracy and stepping on states rights.

[mahina]

273. News flash: he isn't playing tough guy, he is a tough guy. And a smart guy. That's why we love him.

This just in. Wake up.

[blogslut]

5. Howard Dean is greatest thing to hit our party in 30 years

And you want him to resign.

[bicentennial_baby]

8. Exactly....

I'm sure the OP would rather reinstall MacAuliffe. :eyes:

[jaysunb]

31. Or, Harold Ford Jr.

pining for the DLC to assure defeat is not what is needed at this time. :evilfrown:

[jlake]

181. I know I would.

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: Terry MacAuliffe.

[bvar22]

227. Did former chairman of the DLC Joe Lieberman

have to give up his membership in the DLC when he left the Democratic Party ?...or is running against REAL Democrats still OK with the DLC?
I am especially curious since the sweetheart of the DLC endorsed McCain this week.

Is this something that is OK with the DLC ?

[HooptieWagon]

198. zellary supporters want to go back

to when party money went to the top, and most of the states were ignored. This led to the Rs dominating both houses for a decade+ , two terms of the worst president in history, and demoralizing losses for Ds in local and state elections. Yes, that's what Hillary supporters want... because it's what they're told that's what they want by her highness and they refuse to take off the blinders for one fucking minute. Stubborn and stupid is no way to go through life, besides-it's just so republican.
Dean's 50-state strategy and leadership is the best thing that's happened to the Dem Party in the last 20 years. Look at the voter turnout this year - it's fantastic, especially in "red" states! Hillary wants to throw that all away by dividing the Party, coronating herself queen, and reinstalling her DLC cronies in DNC leadership. We've had enough with an imperial presidency... Just Say No!

[SoCalDem]

254. That greasy headed hon-yocky fool..I cringe when I see him

eeeew..

[Egnever]

47. The mindset of hillary supporters is starting to worry me.

Kick Dean? You gotta be fucking kidding me. God forbid Al Gore endorsed Obama all of a sudden global warming would become a myth.

[hueyshort]

103. Hit Pieces by Obama supporters

have been flooding out the blogs since summer.
So why are you worried at all?

[Tesha]

106. DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC...

(They're not *REAL* Democrats; they merely
hijacked our party for a while. And now
they're pissed that we want it back!)

Tesha

[SoxFan]

250. Oh, Tesha

You're one of my favorite posters and you know better than this.

The DLC has nothing to do with this contest. Some of Sen. Obama's top supporters-Janet Napolitano, Chris Gregoire, Jack Markell, Kathleen Sebelius-are active in the DLC. heck, Gov. Sebelius chairs the DLC's Ideas Primary project.

Al From is a Hillary supporter, but a number of DLC staffers and non-staff leaders are with Obama. Earlier in the cycle, Biden, Edwards, and Richardson all had backing from DLC types as well.

[DrDan]

49. yep . . . .. n/t

[democrattotheend]

59. Agreed

He has turned the DNC from an organization that raised money from fatcats and worked to undermine insurgent candidates to a more people-powered, party-building institution, just like his campaign was.

[redqueen]

85. The DLC wants it, so anyone who believes in their mission wants it.

I really hope they don't get their way.

[Elidor]

218. Amen!

We need more people like him.

[FrenchieCat]

6. The worse disaster in Democratic Party history

is Hillary Clinton's candidacy. Now, that's the real nightmare.

[tyne]

14. No kidding.

If I can't win, no Dem can.

Great.

[Apollo11]

7. It is Dean's job to foresee and prevent these kind of problems.

He cannot escape responsibility for allowing this mess to happen on his watch.

[MoonRiver]

10. Agreed.

Along with the DNC chairperson in Michigan, Dean needs to go.

[dave29]

235. Bill Clinton on Howard Dean:

"I'd also like to say that whatever it is that Howard Dean knows, or whatever it is that he eats for breakfast every morning, if I could give it to every other Democratic office holder and would-be office holder, we would immediately become the majority in the Congress and we would have about 35 governors. (Applause.)

--- Bill Clinton, November 12, 1997

[tbyg52]

271. Amen, even though I doubt he'd say it now. nt

[KittyWampus]

22. He did foresee the problem, told FL & MI what to expect. They did it anyway.

[Carolina]

45. Thank you for stating the truth

that HRC and the Hillbots ignore with their win by any means necessary tactics. What a bunch of cheaters and sore losers!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

54. He didn't do anything that Terry McAuliffe didn't do to states that tried to move their primaries up

When he was chair. McAuliffe told them in no uncertain terms that they'd not get their delegates seated.

[redqueen]

88. Yup...

but he's DLC... so... I guess it's okay when THEY do it. :shrug:

[DrDan]

60. "get to the back of the bus . . . . you know the rules . . . "

c'mon . . .this was a crappy rule . . . one that Dean should have fixed before it got this far.

What did he expect the repubs to do? They are much smarter that we when it comes to fixing elections.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

69. The rule was NOT crappy.

You say this now, but wait until we have primaries starting the November before the General Election. Then it won't be so crappy. Yet it's exactly what we're headed towards with states trying to leap-frog each other to be first.

[DrDan]

84. I say it now . . . I said it months ago before it became an issue

I think it is a crappy rule

[DrDan]

87. the way to fix it is to insure ALL states have primaries on the same date

I know it is a problem for candidates - but that is their problem.

When one is allowed to go first - then you will always have a problem. Dean and the DNC cannot institute a hierarchy of primaries - and that is what they have done.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

108. I tend to agree.

The argument against is that the current system it gives small states a chance to have their say in a manner that doesn't happen in the general election, where the big states get the most attention. Personally, I say too friggin bad to the small states - you chose to live there. And this is from someone from a lower-end mid-sized state (MD, and formerly, MA).

[DemBones DemBones]

197. Congress should pass a law saying that all federal election primaries will be

on the same day in all 50 states, for all parties, and eliminate caucuses completely.

There's too much potential for people to intimidate other voters in caucuses.

For instance, suppose you go to a caucus and your boss is there, your boss whom you know supports the candidate you don't like and hates your candidate. How free will you feel about voting your conscience with your boss there?

Secret ballots are always best.

Also, caucuses discriminate against older voters who have more difficulty going out at night and against people who have to work at night.

[eridani]

240. Yeah, right. All working class people live in the same neighborhood as their bosses

Caucuses are the best possible way to get more people actually involved in electoral politics. The spread of primaries coincided with the spread of apathy, ignorance, and sound bites brought to you by the folks with the most money.

[Larkspur]

115. The rule is only crappy to Hillary and her supporters

It's fair to everyone else and it was supported by MI and FL BEFORE they moved their primaries up.

[eridani]

239. What we really need is to have the 2012 primary on Jan 22, 2009

And we would, without rules.

[smiley_glad_hands]

24. It's his job to follow the rules, not make them up as he goes.

Only repugs do that.

[DrDan]

66. it is his job to make sure the rules make sense

this was a crappy rule - he should have fixed it.

He was outplayed by the repubs.

[smiley_glad_hands]

155. No, he never had the responsibility of making the rules, the states did.

More like Hill is playing for the republicans.

[Debi]

172. You keep saying that - but the republicans didn't create the mess in FL

the Democrats who went along with the republicans did. The rules provide for states that have republican controlled legislatures and presume that senanigans may occur. The rules require some effort from the Democrats...

"...The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to
achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in
good faith in attempting to prevent the legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules."

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf

[Debi]

173. The rules were established before Florida's move and were very clear

on what would happen.

[madfloridian]

25. He warned them. They ignored him. I am beginning to despise Hillary

and all she is doing to our party.

I will support Dean on this.

They went to the press without even talking to the DNC. I despise what Hillary is doing to this party.

We could have won this year. Now we won't.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

[Apollo11]

37. "We could have won this year. Now we won't."

Are you another one of those optimistic hope-filled Obama supporters? :eyes:

[Tellurian]

244. When was the last time the DNC won an election?

[HooptieWagon]

259. 2006, when Dean's 50-state strategy led to Dem majorities in both houses

OTOH, DLC malfeasence led to losing majorities in 1994, and the WH in 2000 & 2004... not to mention losing many state elections during the DLC's reign.

[Hawkeye-X]

71. Dean WARNED them about the penalities if FL and MI moved up

They ignored him and suffered the consequences.

And now you're claiming it's Dean's fault?!

Lay down the crackpipe.

Hawkeye-X

[death to the DLC]

89. Howard Dean did not force

Hillary's campaign to agree to the rules!

Moving the goalposts once again.

[K Gardner]

9. I call for the IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION of Hillary Rodham Clinton from the race for

President and from the Democratic Party. She has proven to give aid and comfort to the Republican party and is destroying her own party from the inside with lies, slander and the lowest common denominator of personal attacks. Her hypocrisy will tear this party apart. She has single handedly created one of the worst disasters in Democratic Party History.

I agree with Ms. Power.

[Carolina]

53. exactly Smantha Power spoke the truth

HRC is despicable monster.

[Tellurian]

246. You're FIRED!

Ms. Power got FIRED by Axelrod because she doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut!

[bowens43]

11. OMG

what a bunch of freaking nonsense. You Hillary supporters are completely off the deep end.
It's really pathetic.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. May I second your sentiment?

I can't believe what I have been reading the past few days from some of the Clinton supporters. And now this??

Good grief, get a grip people. :crazy:

[Recursion]

12. Howard Dean is the only person who stood between us and a Republican majority in Congress

In fact I believe he may be complicit in trying to prevent Hillary from getting the nomination.

Well, no, that's "a majority of primary voters" that you're thinking of.

What Dean is trying to do is get rid of the Carville/Morris professional political consultant parasite class that has leeched onto our party. It's nothing personal against Clinton; it's just that she happens to have allied herself with them.

[Lisa0825]

128. AMEN!

Just another attempt to regain Clinton control.... anything for the Clintons, no matter how many rules you have to change or break to get there. Makes me sick :puke:

[Sulawesi]

13. I think Dean is doing great...

[madfloridian]

15. I call for Hillary to stop her scorched earth campaign.

She is hurting our party.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. She can't, it's "in her nature," as the scorpion said to the frog.

[autorank]

214. Excellent metaphor that describes reality n/t

[KittyWampus]

16. Too bad for Hillary Dean isn't a trained Clinton Monkey Like McAuliffe was.

[Tellurian]

248. Too bad Dean doesn't have an EXIT strategy that doesn't hurt the Dem Party!

[w13rd0]

17. You have any suggestions?

Will Terry take the job? I'm sure he'll get Florida and Michigan seated!

What the fuck ever.

They broke the rules, now Hillary's team wants to change the rules. Big fuckin shocker her supporters are whining because Dean won't take part in an unwarranted coronation of the queen.

Oh, and anoter thing...

Need a pillow?

[smiley_glad_hands]

18. I call on hilliary to step out of the way.

And stop trying to break the rules and cheat.

[dionysus]

19. aww, someone's unhinged...

here is your banky;

[cali]

20. You're shit out of luck: It ain't gonna happen and you can bank on that,

Dean has the support of the vast majority of the state chairs. So suck it up. You don't call the shots. Whine and shriek all you want, Dr. Dean is in the house- in fact, he's in charge of the house.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

21. you want someone to "fix this primary"? Call Diebold then

just in case Rove, the GOP Governor of Florida or Mark Blackwater Penn doesn't help you.

[rateyes]

Utter bullshit.

If you take a close look at the vote that pushed the primary ahead of schedule in FL, every Democrat voted in favor of it, knowing full well it was against DNC rules that they had previously voted in favor of. They knew the penalties for their actions, and deliberately chose to break the rules because they thought that they should be more important than the other 49 states of the union. That's not Dean's fault. That's the Democratic Party of Florida's fault.

Dean has been the best DNC chair we've ever had. He is there to promote the party, raise funds, and make sure people play by the rules. We've had dramatically increased participation in Democratic primaries and caucuses, the money raised outpaces the money the Republicans raise by 10's of millions of dollars, and he is enforcing the rules that EVERY state delegation voted for.

Your post is nothing but sour grapes because your candidate cannot possibly get the nomination apart from changing the rules in the middle of the game. "If you can't win by keeping the rules, then cheat." Is that Clinton's mantra now?

[tyne]

32. Sometimes

I think it's the minds of people like the Hillary supporters that have kept the Dem party down for so so long.

[rateyes]

38. The DLC in action. nt

[NJSecularist]

23. Let's bring back the great days of Terry McAulifee

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Howard Dean is going to win us elections with his 50 state strategy.

[otohara]

204. Seeing McAwful Again

sends chills down my spine. He's super slimy.

[Yossariant]

26. He is Obamanable and needs to go NOW.

What a joke of a chair he has turned out to be.

[yardwork]

27. I think that Howard Dean is doing a great job.

I completely disagree with your OP.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Dean's the best thing that's happened to the Democratic Party in 20 years.

If you had even an inkling of the history of how we lost congress came down and allowed a tiny minority of Neo-con fascists to take over the government, you wouldn't be saying this.

Instead you are whining that the rule breakers aren't allowed to do what ever they want so it helps your gal.

It's all about Clinton with you.

And now that Dean won't help Clinton break the rules you ar mad at him.

Very short sighted of you.

[truebrit71]

29. Put down the crack pipe and get help...If it weren't for Howard Dean...

...we wouldn't have taken back the House and Senate in '06

Your statement is quite possibly the most stupid thing ever written here at DU...

[fadedrose]

30. Dean did not plan the MI primary or endorse it

Look to the people who did for the answer to the problems.

They all agreed to the rules beforehand. Clinton or nobody is above the rules.

[MoonRiver]

75. If you would read my post, I stated that the Florida primary was the problem.

Michigan made its own bed.

[Barack_America]

34. I call bullshit on your post.

Howard Dean has been a great DNC chair. He's the one who gave us 2006.

You worked to get the right person promoted to DNC chair. Unfortunately, you have aligned yourself with a Presidential candidate hell-bent on undermining Dean, and the entire DNC.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/berman

[Carolina]

35. Oh puhleeze

Blaming Dean for FL and MI is PATHETIC

Hypocrillary isn't getting the nomination because she's single handedly creating one of the worst disasters in Democratic Party history as the self-centered cheater and dirty player she is.

Howard didn't make the rules, the party RULES COMMITTEE did. Abide by them or LOSE!

Sore loser.

[karynnj]

36. What's next: The Democratic voters in all the unimportant states should resign

immediately as well because they hurt Hillary's campaign! The powers that be stacked almost everything in her favor.

The rule and penalty was set up by McAuliffe. I do think Dean should have thought through the ramifications and found a solution about a year ago, but he was only one player in this mess.

[Egnever]

39. If he goes I go with him.

I will gladly wave goodbye to the tools left with the party they created by dismissing the good doctor.

[madfloridian]

43. I am about to that point as well.

.

[Egnever]

62. I cant believe this was even posted as a thread

if its any indication of where this party is headed its time for a new one. If Dean started one I would get behind him in a second. Hell If he did I would probably quit my job and go camp on his doorstep to help.

[madfloridian]

70. I am surprised DU lets this stuff go on.

It is making the whole forum look bad.

[cali]

81. Oh, I can. I knew the hillarians were headed in this direction weeks ago

I posted a poll about how people felt about Dean and there were a lot of questions about why I was posting it. I saw the hypcritical hating on dean that the putrid hillarians were gearing up. they're so disgusting.

[Egnever]

92. I guess

It is amazing to see though just the same. I am just baffled by it.

[redqueen]

93. You just need to drink some more DLC kool aid.

They're WINNERS! They WIN stuff!

:woohoo:

:puke:

[madfloridian]

102. lol

:rofl:

[rateyes]

95. I'm with you. nt

[Mooney]

40. Why, because he's following and enforcing the pre-determined rules?

Oh the humanity.

[madfloridian]

41. Again....I want Hillary's divisive butt out of this race right now

Now, I say. If wishes were horses.....

[earthside]

42. Agree.

Howard Dean, as chair of the Democratic Party, has a responsibility to provide leadership to ensure that its candidates for President remain true to the values and principles of his party.

He should take the bold step of demanding Hillary Clinton(s) withdrawal from the presidential contest if she continues to provide aid and comfort and credibility to the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party.

If Dean cannot begin to take steps to rescue his party from the destructive campaign of Hillary Clinton(s), then, yes, he should resign.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. What a pantload!

[mopinko]

79. second

hard to pick a post to second, so many good ones.
dr dean forever. cheaters, go home.

[ecstatic]

46. He should resign for not extinguishing the HRC fire

She's tearing the party apart and ensuring a McCain win.

[pompano]

116. Indeed

I don't see how HRC sees a win in all of this. She in her spoiled brat tactics and tantrums piss off half of her base, the Independents already want Obama, and the Republicans that voted for her in Texas will most certainly vote for McCain in the General Election? Election day she could carry her votes away in a nap sack.

This is the experience she boasts about? Hell if that experience works I'll run for office.

Sadly, I think the NAFTA shit slinging is going to work against her. Not long ago I was an Obama supporter first and a nominee supporter next in that order. With her latest antics a misinformed Kool-aid drinker would probably even rethink their devotion. From what I'm hearing I am not alone either. I am an old man and have never sat out a vote for a Democrat, ever. HRC make make history for me with my blind party devotion. Although, I never could vote for a Republican.

Dean needs to get hold of the reigns here and yesterday is too late.

[Adelante]

48. I support Chairman Howard Dean

I am proud of Chairman Howard Dean. The Michigan and Florida state parties are responsible for this disaster. NOT Chairman Howard Dean.

[Coexist]

52. Dean ROCKS! n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

55. Screw a Congressional majority!!!

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[angie_love]

57. I call for Hillary Clinton's immediate resignation as a democrat.

Really after her praising McCain twice this week, she should go the way of lieberman

[last1standing]

61. I'm not sure if this post is more ignorance or spin.

Either way it's just factually wrong. You've blinded yourself with hatred of anyone who doesn't cowtow to your candidate. It's time you got off DU for awhile and tried living in the real world for a bit.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

63. Total bullshit.

Florida and Michigan knew the rules and ignored them. THEY fucked up - NOT Dean. This post is beyond idiotic.

[Zodiak]

64. Why does it not surprise me

...that the OP has a Hillary avatar?

The worst disaster in Democratic party history is the DLC, and the OP is playing right into their hands by promoting their agenda.

[mmonk]

65. He would be miserable if he caved to self serving interests

rather than the party as a whole nationally. He offered a reasonable compromise that was refused. Let the solution now be brokered in a reasonable manner.

[Highway61]

67. BULL

The State of Florida wanted to move it's primary up. It is up to the STATE....I will support who ever gets the nomination, but I have to say Hillary is being a brat..at this point. She should be ashamed of her latest antics.
Do the math...Obama has it hands down. Bow out, for Christ's sake. She ever hear of the word "grace"?
How is this Dean's fault? Give me a break. He's the best.
My opinion...quit all this fussing and fighting...UNITE

[YOY]

68. Said the person with a DLC candidate

n/t

[workinclasszero]

72. If you can't win, subvert the process and cheat your way to a win..

Hillbots have no shame.

[zulchzulu]

73. Hillaryworld wants to change the rules in the middle of the game

What's that called?

CHEATING!

Never mind that Hillary Clinton should leave the Democratic Party for endorsing our opposition while running for President. That's simply being a traitor, which is nothing new for a Clinton.

But if you or Hillaryworld think that we should go the Clinton Way of cheating, lying and embarrassing, then you have another thing coming.

[PerfectSage]

76. If Hillary had built a grassroots organization like Obama

She woulda won easily by now. She has been outgeneraled every step of the way.

I call for the IMMEDIATE resignation of Hillary for incompetence!

[cemaphonic]

78. Nuts to that

I agree that he made a bad miscalculation in handing down a punishment that came down harder on the voters than on the legislatures that are actually at fault, especially a punishment that is so offensive to democratic sensibilities that there is no way it can be allowed to stick.

But he didn't throw down the gauntlet to begin with, and there is plenty of evidence that he has been working hard to provide a fair and reasonable compromise, which appears to be working in MI at least.

On top of that, as others have posted, in most other respects, he has done a great job. He stays.

[NDambi]

80. Nope,. Dean stays..I call for the resignation of Howard Wolfson, though for his Ken comment...

[Birthmark]

82. Don't know about corrupt

But I certainly question his judgment and commitment to basic principles. You don't go around disenfranchising people for the actions of others if your personal core values are even loosely democratic --in any sense of that word.

[mckeown1128]

112. You can't disenfranchise people if they didn't get a fair

election in the first place... The results of the FL and MI primaries are suspect. Disregarding the fact that the candidates didn't actively campaign.... Disregarding the fact that not all the names were on the ballot in MI... The fact that the voters of both MI and FL were TOLD that the results of the primaries didn't count for anything, proves the elections were suspect... The voters have the RIGHT to know BEFORE the election what exactly the election is for. They were told that the election wasn't for delegates.... Now, Hillary's supporters in the FL and MI state parties are trying to use the results of a shadowed election to give Clinton delegates...

It is ONLY disenfranchisement if the suspect results are used to allocate delegates.

[Cassandra]

83. Single-handedly?

If the DLC can raise a single collective hand, that would be the hand I would pick for this fuck-up. Blame Nelson, Granholm, McAuliffe, even Ford for scheming for Dean's job. The DLC's motto seems to be; if we can't run the Democratic party, let it burn.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[racaulk]

123. "Packing a Musket" by Jerri Blank

When your work from home
And johns call on the phone
You're a call girl

When you walk 'til you limp
And give a cut to a pimp
You're a street whore

When they're begging you please
To get down on your knees
Near their groinage

'Scuse-a-me, but you see
Don't you touch where they pee
Without coinage

When I straddle and squat
To show you my ....

:rofl:

Always pleased to see a fellow SWC fan! Check my sig line below... :hi:

[CitizenRob]

141. :-)

[HooptieWagon]

205. LOL!

[madfloridian]

90. Hillary is making it dangerous for our party. She should get out of the race.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1884

[NeedleCast]

91. He's no more or less complicit than the Govs

of Florida and Michigan who are trying desperatly to hand it to Hillary.

[TwilightGardener]

94. Nope--Dean is the only thing (besides Obama) standing between

the parasitic Clintons/DLC and the destruction of the true Democratic party.

[awaysidetraveler]

100. Howard Dean's the problem? No... FL and MI are the problem.

And the reason Florida's a problem is because their election schedule was decided by rethugs.

What reason do you have to think Dean's not doing his job? He's just following the rules.

What do you want him to do, cheat?

You should be up in arms that FL and MI aren't calling for a second vote.

[susankh4]

208. I want him to figure out a way to

1) respect the rights of all voters

2) work with the states.

[thevoiceofreason]

110. No way. I say chairman for life.

[Political Heretic]

111. You know what I disrespect most about hillary supporters? Their scorched earth attitude.

During this campaign they have come out in hate of anyone who commits the mortal sin of not doing everything their candidates wants or not actively endorsing Clinton.

Now that includes Howard Dean, and that is where it just becomes totally absurd.

You know, Al Gore hasn't publicly expressed specific support for Clinton over Obama....maybe its time we start talking about what a pathetic fucking asshole he is too? :eyes: Any other democrat we can trash for not doing everything you want?

My god.

[JackORoses]

113. Just because he won't give the Queen her crown?

Fuck you and her!

[oasis]

114. Dean's anti-Clinton bias comes shining through at last.(eom)

:bounce: :woohoo:

[JBoy]

117. Yes, he should resign because he does not immediately do what Hillary wants.

[Exilednight]

118. WAAAAAAAAAAA - DEAN ISN"T HELPING HILLARY, HE SHOULD RESIGN -WAAAAAAAA

[seabeyond]

120. but you put everyone on ignore you disagree with or who doesnt agree with you

i say hillary never gets to florida...... shit out of luck. the dems in florida that wanted to fuck with dean fucked with the wrong person. i was just yesterday into compromise, today, screw it. hillary plays by no rules, fuck the rules, has no ethics and her people demand none from her. let her stink. they made a poor political choice going after dean and screwin the florida people. she lost

[aquarius dawning]

122. I'm with you. I was saying the same thing weeks ago in fact

and I received the same responses. when we win, there will be consequences aplenty.

[jaysunb]

125. Aquarians are supposed to be enlightened people...

not easily blinded by smoke and mirrors. :evilfrown:

[cali]

127. well, whine and piss about it some more, hillbot,

it won't change a thing. And Howard has already said that he's stepping down in 2009, so your revenge fantasy will go unsated. Mine won't. Dirty Hilly won't be the nominee.

[DemBones DemBones]

199. If you get your fantasy, McCain will be president next January. nt

[BootinUp]

124. I have no position on Dean's responsibility for this, however,

he has done a poor job of dealing with the problem. It is clear that the reason for the rules was to prevent Florida from generating momentum in the race prior to Feb 5. That date is past, there is not a good reason for withholding the delegates now. If the delegates are awarded today, it is equivalent to holding a primary today.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

129. Took Our Self-Esteem Pills Today, Did We?

I'm sure that if you created a two-foot pile of monkey excrement and placed it next to your "Call for the the IMMEDIATE resignation of Howard Dean as DNC Chairman," I'm sure Howard will give both of these the consideration they deserve.

And then he'll walk away scratching his head, wondering where that big pile of shit came from.

No prizes for guessing which one he's thinking about...

[Shakespeare]

130. Wrong. Dean is on the verge of excising the DLC from the party, which is a Herculean accomplishment

We are very, very lucky to have him as DNC chairman. The sooner, as we're rid of the cancer-like existence of the DLC, the better off the entire country will be. Let's get back to what we're SUPPOSED to be as democrats.

[L0oniX]

134. I hope and pray for the demise of the DLC elitist pigs.n/t

[bicentennial_baby]

145. Damn straight!!

:applause:

[Shakespeare]

147. Hey, you!

My favorite gorgeous econ geek! :loveya:

This is a fight Dean started five years ago; I'm not sure most people fully appreciate what a huge battle this is. And the very soul of the party is at stake.

[bicentennial_baby]

149. I completely agree with you, my

beeyooteeful Vargas girl :loveya:

I <3 Dean! :bounce:

[racaulk]

148. Thank you!

You are absolutely right!

:thumbsup:

[BlackVelvet04]

132. this primary fiasco may very well cost the Democratics

this election. The argument will be that if they can't run a primary they aren't qualified to run the country.

[lojasmo]

133. Yeah...who wans a democratic majority in both houses?

Not me. Get Dean Out.



It's amazing how short sighted people get when they have blind loyalty to a candidate.

[L0oniX]

135. Gee ...yea right ...when you don't like the rules, go cry about it.

[anonymous171]

138. KO, Daily Koss, and now HOWARD FUCKING DEAN!?!?!?

:wtf:

[smiley_glad_hands]

156. Seems like all Hill supporters are interested in is tearing down the party. eom

[mudesi]

175. Unbelievable!

:puke:

[lojasmo]

139. Howard Dean speaks for ME!

[RiverStone]

140. Your "bottom line" is WRONG - please read the facts

The pukes did not force the Dems to do a damn thing. That is nothing but spin. Look who sponsored the original "move date" legislation and then look at the vote totals.

Read this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

[BooScout]

143. As a former Dean supporter.........

I agree 100 percent.

[Hawkeye-X]

178. Since when were you ever a Dean supporter?

I'm calling you on the spot.

[Lucky 13]

150. Time to throw another dem under the bus

So now we turn on Dean, huh? After everything that man has done for the party? Disgusting.

As has been said over and over and over... He was willing to work with MI and FL, but they chose the media route. But the only way to satisfy some people is to change the rules over and over until the mostly likely scenario for them to win.

Hillary will fight and claw and spit and scream and lie and slander and anything else necessary to "win". She's a master at Rovian politics. Someone stands in your way? Annihilate them.

Throw the rules and order everyone agreed to under the bus.
Throw Barack under the bus.
Throw Dean under the bus.
Throw the party under the bus.
Throw young voters under the bus.
Throw the country under the bus.
Throw anyone who doesn't believe that this nomination is OWED to you under the bus.
:puke:

So let's live in fantasy land with the rest of Hillary's crew for a moment: By throwing all the democrats who dared challenge her under the bus, Hillary wins the nomination! Election day rolls around. Now, this is where the dream ends badly for you because all of the folks with tread marks still on their backs decide to sit this one out on principle. You can't win without them.

And it doesn't work to tell those people with tread marks on their backs to suck it up, get over it and choose the lesser of two evils. What works is not to throw people under the bus in the first place. And that's a concept she just doesn't get.

[JimGinPA]

151. Complicit Indeed...

The nerve of that basrard making rules that he enforces! I guess I should demand my wife's resignation too, because she does that to my kids too.

[northernsoul]

152. Compared the unmitigated success that was Terry McAulife?

Posts like this really make me wish there was an "unreccomend" function on DU.

[tabasco]

153. Dean restored some backbone to this party.

Slick Bill and Hill went a long way to removing it completely.

[tammywammy]

154. Disagree

He told them what to expect if they went ahead.

The Florida dems went along with the republicans. :shrug:

[Hatalles]

157. Barack Obama, John Kerry, Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson, Keith Olbermann, Howard Dean...

... is there ANYONE you Hillary supporters won't throw under the bus?!?!

[Debi]

158. Hahahahahahah

No wait.......

Hahahahahahah :rofl:

[JVS]

162. No way! Howard rules and is showing those fucks down at the state offices who is in charge!

Long live DEAN!!!!

[Hippo_Tron]

164. If we had not punished Michigan and Florida there would've been utter chaos...

Every single state would've moved their primary up to whenever the hell they wanted to. We could have had primaries in August of 2007 for god's sake.

If we're going to have a national primary day then we need to plan for one, not just open the floodgates.

[Sir Jeffrey]

165. How DARE he not change the rules to accommodate your candidate!

[jlake]

167. Signed! K&R!

[557188]

169. I agree

This whole primary system is stupid. I was hardcore for Dean in 04 but christ this whole thing is a mess. Even if you're an obama or hillary fan you have to agree this whole primary has been a disaster for the party. That is something Dean should be held accountable for.

Hopefully we have a national primary day next time with the winner being a simple majority vote. The most, gasp, Democratic way to do things instead of this state BS.

[democrattotheend]

185. Dean inherited a primary schedule and calendar committee from McAuliffe

Which was stacked with Clinton people. He did the best he could to improve the process, but a lot of it had been put in place already.

[AZBlue]

170. INDEED! Let's fire everyone who won't let Hillary Clinton CHEAT her way to the nomination!!!!

:crazy:

[ellisonz]

171. "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/02/bz-arrogance-cost-florida-chance-to-influence-elec/

[mudesi]

174. NOW CLINTON SUPPORTERS ARE AGAINST DEAN?!?!?!?!

First Keith Olbermann, now Howard Dean?

You people are deluded and beyond help.

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[RBInMaine]

183. Their against ANYONE who doesn't bow before their machine.

[NMMatt]

176. He is doing a great job not bowing to the Clintons -nt

[debatepro]

177. If your a republican then you want howard dean out of the DNC

Howard Dean has arguably done more for this party than any democrat in the last 4 years.

Hillary supporters calling for dean's head need to get a grip. Seriously.

[Hoof Hearted]

180. I concur. He's been a disaster. He knew it was a republican legislature and governor in FL that

set this whole situation up to make Democrats look bad in their state and the country. Not only did Dean ALLOW this to happen, you'd think he was TRYING to kill the Democratic party altogether, and especially in that critical state. What an ASS he's turned out to be.

[democrattotheend]

184. Dems in Florida went along with it

The state party was for it, and the bill was actually introduced by a Democrat in the state legislature.

[HooptieWagon]

200. Don't confuse Hillbots with facts and math

It makes their heads explode.

[RBInMaine]

182. Dean is AWESOME !! Here's why:

Dean is GREAT ! Against the bitching of the shitty 20-state-strategy Washington establishment pinheads, he has stuck to his guns to rebuild the party for the FUTURE in ALL 50 states. MONEY is way UP (including Democracy-bond holders who contribute monthly). We have WON elections with Dean. He puts the shit to the Republicans BIGTIME. More people are now identified as Dems than at any time in recent history. Dean has said that if MI and FL, WHO CHOSE TO BREAK THE RULES want a re-do, then FINE AND DANDY. Just pay for it yourselves, which is FAIR. That is all he has said. This has turned out to be a close primary and hotly contested. It is not the first time this has happened. It won't be the last time. Just take a deep breath and allow this to play out, because it will, and in the end we'll get a fair result.

[ScreamingMeemie]

186. Why? Because he's not a liar, is a refreshing change? And keeps

his promises to the public????

[Medusa]

188. Because he won't kiss the Clintons asses?

yeah there's a good reason to get rid of him alright. :eyes:

[Thurston Howell III]

187. GREAT! Then he can start to work on a 2012 Presidential run!!

:toast:

[grantcart]

189. Boy they really will destroy the party to save their campaign

[awaysidetraveler]

194. GO DEAN!!!! YEAH! THANK YOU FOR PROTECTING OUR RIGHTS!!!!!

[Danger Mouse]

195. Oh FFS.

:thumbsdown:

[kimsterdemster]

196. Dean rules the party...

and he started a fifty state strategy and it worked in 2006, more states need to matter in deciding the nominee, Florida (R-M) & Michigan (D-F) wanted to move up their primaries in order to get a nominee as fast as possible (Clinton), Dean wanted more states to matter and guess what it's working more people are having their say and unfortunately some people don't like it?

[jgraz]

201. Keep working those refs

Too bad the game finished three weeks ago.

[susankh4]

202. Really painted himself into a corner

and now we all look like blithering fools.

[HooptieWagon]

207. One of the most stupidest OPs I've ever seen on DU

Your candidate has lost, now she's just poisoning the well. Take the blinders off.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

210. rules are rules and can't be changed because she's losing!

[progressoid]

212. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Oh...you were serious? Sorry, I thought this was a joke thread.

[autorank]

213. I'd agree but the Dems in the FL leg supported the early primary too. Sorry, no points here.

It wasn't a Republican plot and the RNC chastised and punished the state party for what they did.

But there were Dems there supporting this. It was actually tacked onto the bill that made the
Florida an optical scan voting state (Republican vendors supposedly make fair voting machines).

[robbedvoter]

215. This primary has been a clusterfuck - Fla, Mi, caucases with cards and other

idiotic things - I can't even list them all.

[cascadiance]

217. I joined the Democratic Party when Dean took over the DNC...

... and I'll probably leave the party if he's forced to step down. This DLC-inflicted BS is really starting to grate on me and many others. At some point enough people will be fed up and we'll have a third party be strong enough to get instant runoff voting, and we'll throw these power-mongering bums out then!

[ms liberty]

220. Bullshit. Howard Dean's been magnificent. n/t

[lmbradford]

221. sorry

I demand he stay where he is! It must be tough to have the rules enforced for once. People in Washington sure don't play by the rules, but Dr. Dean does. He'll hold to em too. I have no problem with two re-dos that are fair to both candidates and approved by all parties. You know, like the original RULES in the first place.

[Blondiegrrl]

222. I think he's doing a wonderful job. It's nice to have a leader who has scruples and

plays by the rules.

Dean was my No. 1 choice for president once upon a time. Even now, I can't help but think "What if ..."

[Yes We Did]

224. Then maybe she should be okay with the revote. n/t

[Johnny__Motown]

225. OMG, HE ENFORCED THE RULES... CLEARLY HE MUST RESIGN (no thanks)

[rodeodance]

226. even NPR was calling him weak tonight.

[Breeze54]

228. You are blaming the wrong person.

Try blaming groups of people!!!

[havocmom]

229. What? A fair man won't abide your candidate changing rules after game?

HRC's pal McAuliffe kept losing DEM seats in the Senate and House. Dr. Dean got us winning and relevant again.

Calling Dean the author of disaster is taking away some of the Clinton Campaign's accomplishments.

Dean did not force anybody to break the pre-arranged rules. And if FL & MI had gone for Obama, team Clinton would not be working to get those votes counted and delegates seated.

What a fucking lame farce.

[Gore1FL]

230. Her campaign staff should resign immdiately

they have done a far more miserable job, and are clearly complicit in preventig Hillary from getting the nomination.

[LulaMay]

232. Wholeheartedly agree. He messed this up for all of us. It makes Dems look so bad after 2000, 2004

[Gore1FL]

233. Try calling for at at 3:00 am

maybe Hillary or John McCain will answer and help you out.

[WilliamPitt]

236. Satire.

Yes?

:eyes:

[Gore1FL]

247. Yo WP

What up? Longtime no see! Missed you at CG. TLB is back and in full kook mode.

[MadHound]

237. Waaaaaaaah! Poor Hillary, somebody is actually sticking to the rules,

Therefore he must be destroyed:eyes:

Hillary supporters are soooo predictable.

[Medusa]

267. and Dean isn't afraid of her or Bill

GOOD FOR HIM!

[AtomicKitten]

238. Off with their heads!!!

[mythyc]

242. o lord

(psst... even with florida and michigan's numbers included, obama will be past hillary in four days time, after which time she will never catch him. but yeah, uh, yeah, it's dean's fault hillary is losing.... :eyes:

edit - type-o

[dailykoff]

245. Wouldn't it be easier to just switch parties

and take Hilly Munster with you? :shrug:

[Stuckinthebush]

251. Sorry, I think he has been great

Best thing to happen to the party in years.

I'm sorry that Florida and Michigan decided to give the finger to the DNC, but Dean couldn't back down.

[Dinger]

252. K & R

[rosetta627]

255. 'Cause he won't bend over for Queen Hillary?

Good for him.

Hang tough Howard. Your enemy is unscrupulous.

[sniffa]

257. pfft

:rofl:

It's hard not to openly laugh at the things you say (and not in the laughing with you way).

[Life Long Dem]

258. What's the matter? Your candidate not going the way youwould like?

By the way. The states are to blame.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

260. BAHHHHHHH ROARRRRRRR SNARFFFFF GARBLE GARBLE ROARRRRRR!!!!!!

[stillcool]

261. God forbid we have a liberal...

left in the party!! I think Kerry and Kennedy should also resign RIGHT NOW!! And every other fuck who hasn't endorsed Hillary. Get rid of those caucuses! Get rid of those states that don't matter! And most of all, get rid of BLACK_BARACK_MUSLIM_SCARY_HUSSEIN_REZKO_OSAMA_OBAMA....RIGHT NOW!!!

[mod mom]

263. HAT'S OFF TO HOWARD DEAN!

[tekisui]

265. I call you a moran.

[blunorsk]

268. No

Wrong scapegoat

[CRH]

275. If you were a Florida democrat, would you vote against mandatory paper trails? ...

It is a difficult issue, and in some respects the Florida democrats were sucker punched. Totally faultless no, but they were politically maneuvered between a rock and a hard spot.

http://www.makeitcountflorida.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/

~snip~

The Rules say you had to try to stop the primary move, but Democrats voted for the law. What gives?
Initially, before a specific date had been decided upon by the Republicans, some Democrats did actively support the idea of moving earlier in the calendar year.  That changed when Speaker Rubio announced he wanted to break the Rules of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Following this announcement, DNC and Florida Democratic Party staff talked about the possibility that our primary date would move up in violation of Rule 11.A.

Party leaders, Chairwoman Thurman and members of Congress then lobbied Democratic members of the Legislature through a variety of means to prevent the primary from moving earlier than February 5th.  Party leadership and staff spent countless hours discussing our opposition to and the ramifications of a pre-February 5th primary with legislators, former and current Congressional members, DNC members, DNC staff, donors, activists, county leaders, media, legislative staff, Congressional staff, municipal elected officials, constituency leaders, labor leaders and counterparts in other state parties.  In response to the Party’s efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house.

The primary bill, which at this point had been rolled into a larger legislation train, went to a vote in both houses. It passed almost unanimously. The final bill contained a whole host of elections legislation, much of which Democrats did not support. However, in legislative bodies, the majority party can shove bad omnibus legislation down the minority’s throats by attaching a couple of things that made the whole bill very difficult, if not impossible, to vote against. This is what the Republicans did in Florida, including a vital provision to require a paper trail for Florida elections. There was no way that any Florida Democratic Party official or Democratic legislative leader could ask our Democratic members, especially those in the Florida Legislative Black Caucus, to vote against a paper trail for our elections. It would have been embarrassing, futile, and, moreover, against Democratic principles.

~~snip~~

Though the Michigan primary seems to be an action of free will, and therefore the consequences just, it does appear some effort was made by Florida democrats in opposition to the move, but to no avail. If nothing else, it would appear the counting of Florida delegates could be justified within the by laws of the DNC approved in 2006.

The fact that no candidates campaigned in Florida, and all were on the ballot, lends an appearance of fairness, but is that really the case with the Obama campaign's ability to swiftly close the gap of deficits. Over all a very difficult decision, with both sides having valid talking points. Is all of this Dean's fault?

I only wonder why the campaigns did not weigh in on this issue before the Florida primary, when it was obvious the Florida voters would be the ones to lose their voice through no fault of their own, and might well react to the affront in the general. It is hard for me to state anyone is blameless.

All said does Dean deserve to be fired? Not to my thinking. All parties had a chance to address this much earlier.

[Freida5]

278. I would also like to see the whole board leave with Dean

[cooolandrew]

284. Most liberal radio has covered this it was local government that ...

... that wouldn't move on their plans. Dena has offered to pay half for a re-do of the elections in both states.

[cooolandrew]

285. There will be no party left if HRC supporters keep demand resignations. what.

[MzShellG]

286. I voted for Gov. Dean in 2004 and I'm happy

That he has a top leadership role in the party. I would'nt mind Al Gore in that role as well, if he doesn't run again.

[krkaufman]

287. ha!, so the Clinton/DLC oppostion to Dean as DNC chair ...

... and their opposition to the 50 State Strategy, and the FLorida/MIchigan breaking the agreed-upon DNC rules for the primary contests are somehow due to Howard Dean explicitly trying to prevent Hillary's nomination.

Did Howard Dean force Hillary to adopt her "Ignore 40 States" strategy? Did Howard Dean develop a campaign strategy for Hillary that projected her victory by February 5th? Did Howard Dean twist Jennifer Granholm's and Ben Nelson's arms into supporting their state's breaking the DNC rules?

Laughable. It is to laugh. Ha, ha.

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

291. Why does ClintonCo insist on badgering the ref?

Howard Dean rocks.

[NC_Nurse]

292. Howard rocks!

If you weren't a Hillary supporter, you wouldn't be saying this.
I guarantee you most people don't give a rat's ass about the FL/MI thing.
Only diehard Clinton supporters.

[Ken Burch]

294. So death to the 50 state strategy and let's return to the proven hopeless "targeting" approach?

You hate the guy who's solely responsible for us retaking Congress?

Left to Rahm and McAuliffe, we'd STILL be in the minority in both houses...just like the DLC prefers.

[Jim Sagle]

296. Blow it out yer ass, Hillbot.

[Seabiscuit]

297. Dean didn't create this mess. Florida and Michigan did.

And when they did it was the DNC rules committee which slapped them down, not Dean personally.