I don't mean to be a smart-ass, but why would any Democrat pick Hillary?

[Syrinx]

I just don't understand why Democrats support Hillary Clinton.

She didn't exactly endorse McCain for President, but she implied that McCain would be a better Commander-In-Chief than Obama, a fellow Democrat.

She signaled to the Canadians that her NAFTA talk was bullshit, and blamed it on Obama. And accused him of committing the crime.

Come on!

Remember her secretive health care initiative?

Her and Bill's life-long mission has been to move the Democrats to the right! Remember she was a Goldwater Girl and Bill's best tool, besides the one in his pants, was "triangulation."

I know a lot of people here that I like and respect want Clinton to win because she is a woman.

Please give me a reason, based on anything she has ever said, or anything she has ever done, to support her for president.

[Vinca]

1. So far she's done a good job of writing McCain's campaign

commercials. Not too bright, really, considering there is an outside chance she might be the candidate.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Because she's smart, experienced, capable

and a good Democrat. She's a fighter, she's a winner.

[JimGinPA]

7. Seriously, What Has She Fought For - And Won?

And what's your idea of a good Democrat? Really, don't be snarky, supply some actual examples.

[polpilot]

19. She 'stood by her man'? She's always fought to win elections.

[WinkyDink]

72. Back atcha, re: Obama.

[earthlover]

A good democrat doesn't support the Republican nominee for President over a fellow Dem

She may be many things, but a good Democrat NOT! She used to be. But something happened.

Of course she thinks the rest of us should be good Democrats and support her if she is the nominee.

I guess she is saying do as I say, not as I do....

[MonkeyFunk]

11. But she didn't do that

You people are getting more and more deranged every day.

[peace13]

26. Educate yourself.

At a minimum watch KO. His segment last night showed Hillary saying that she and McCain were both very qualified to be president and Obama...well all he did was make a speech in 2002. Only one way to interpret that one.

[TwilightGardener]

27. Oh, but yes she did. McCain is Commander-In-Chief-worthy. Obama is not.

That's an ad for the fall if Obama is the nominee, and you know it. Sorry, she's a piece of shit, and you can't defend her this time.

[olkaz]

59. Your posts crack me up; You can barely hide your contempt for anything non-Hillary

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/04/clinton-mccain ...
"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14809.htm...
“I think that since we now know Sen. McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it’s imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold,” the New York senator told reporters crowded into an infant’s bedroom-sized hotel conference room in Washington.

“I believe that I’ve done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy,” she said."


Paraphrased:
I have experience.
McCain has experience.
Obama does not have experience.

[earthlover]

70. I keep hearing the word deranged coming from the Hillary Herd...

...is that the new talking point that the Hillary cult leaders are sending forth?

[Divernan]

44. Was she really ever a good democrat?

I think the only reason she became a Dem was that she was as fixated on marrying Bill as she currently is on returning to the White House. If he'd been GOP, she would have remained GOP.
There's her 15 years with the Rose law firm, representing big corporations, and sitting on some of their boards at the same time - considered by many in the legal field to be a conflict of interest.
It's certainly a conflict of interest to represent the interest of Big Business if you are a Democrat who should be representing the interests of the working class, the poor, the elderly, the unions, etc.

I defended the Clintons for over a decade and refused, just as her current supporters around here now do, to give any credibility to the critical comments about her which came from many, many people who had to deal with her directly. All the stories about how ham-handed, dictatorial she was on her closed door health care initiative are actually most believable. It wasn't shot down because she was a woman. It was shot down because she ignored all the other political parties of interest and did not request any input or feedback from the relevant House and Senate committees, subcommittees and majority and minority chairpeople thereof. If you want to get a major policy change like that implemented, you don't call in your private academic and industry friends behind locked doors and then present a program as a fait acompli. Why does she act that way? I think it's a lethal combination of her own intellectual arrogance, her inability to "work and play well" with her peers, and her vainglorious need to get 110 percent of the credit. You have to share the credit when it comes to legislation. All the politicos need to be able to go back to their constituents and say, "Look what I've done for you."

I had the time of my life at the first Clinton inauguration. Had tickets to a lot of VIP events.
Never would have believed I would now be saying that she is the most destructive political force to the Democratic party or this country in my lifetime.

[TwilightGardener]

46. Very insightful post, if I could rec it, I would.

[Divernan]

52. She was born a generation too soon.

I think if she'd been born a generation later, she would have kicked his sorry sex-addict ass out the front door the first time he cheated on her, and gone on to have a respectable professional career all on her own. She HAS succeeded at enabling his sex addiction for decades, and providing a beard for him to the gullible that he's a good and loving husband. I now even feel sorry for Monica Lewinsky - she was only 21 or 22 when she and Bill went at it. That's a lot younger than Chelsea is now, but HRC gets all emotional if anyone criticizes Chelsea. It's been just over 10 years and Monica's pretty much living in hiding. If Hillary had kept Bill under control, instead of tolerating his repeated extramarital adventures, the whole White House/Lewinsky mess would not have happened. I personally would never remain married to a man whom I would have to "control" to ensure he honored his marriage vows.

[Independent-Voter]

66. Nothing says "Daddy" like fucking an intern barely older than your daughter!

[Syrinx]

9. you didn't convince me, but thanks for the positive comments!

:hi:

[liberal renegade]

15. nothing would convince you.

So what's the point of this thread?

[Lerkfish]

24. to point out the obvious, since so many seem to be willfully ignorant

and I don't mean ignorant in the sense of being stupid, ignorant in the sense of lacking or dismissing knowledge.

[Syrinx]

30. give me something she did in her "35 years of experience"

[Heidi]

42. Her work contributed to Nixon's impeachment. (nt)

[shadowknows69]

18. And those aren't nebulous concepts like "hope" and "change" or anything

[Lerkfish]

20. she fights for herself, not the democrats, not the country

if she wins, SHE wins., the rest of us lose.

IMHO

[stillrockin]

48. OK:

Smart: voted to authorize the war

Experienced: knows how to triangulate and misrepresent the opposition

Capable: Capable of supporting and promoting the opposition

Good Democrat? Computer says NO.

Fighter: Scorched earth policy. Damn the consequences.

Winner: Uh, she is NOT winning. She is destroying our Party.

[Voice for Peace]

65. She is secretive, manipulative, and a bully. nt

[roguevalley]

71. good dems don't endorse repug pukes. period.

[Demeter]

3. Inability to Reason to a Logical Conclusion Is NOT Just for Republicans

Some people go with their emotions, when they ought to be holding on to their wallets and Constitutions.

[Olney Blue]

4. She will follow-through on universal health care, she supports science

(including stem cell research), and she is smart. She has been elected twice to the Senate from New York, which shows that she has successfully represented her constituency.

[Syrinx]

6. good answer

Thanks!

(I'm still for Obama though.) :hi:

[jgraz]

8. All reasons to support her in the general. None of that gives her even a slight edge on Obama

[lastliberalintexas]

16. Which is what the OP requested

Reasons to support her for president. I didn't read it as asking for reasons to support her in the primary, but I could be wrong. (it's happened one or two times in my life) :)

[jgraz]

25. I read it differently than you did, but I can see your point

Those are the reasons I'll vote for her if she somehow "wins" the nomination, but I won't be happy about it.

[JimGinPA]

12. She Is The Spouse Of An Ex-President Who Bought A House In NY To Win A Senate Seat

I'll concede she is smart, but nothing she has done qualifies to be president IMO.

[Divernan]

57. She spent $30 million campaigning vs. weak opponent. She bought the Senate seat.

nt

[shadowknows69]

21. As a New Yorker that one still baffles me

[leftynyc]

73. You're baffled that

a democrat named Clinton beat Rick Lazio and whatever his first name was Spencer in New York? Why?

[Just-plain-Kathy]

28. Hilllary "successfully represented her constituency"?...

...Hillary has been too busy running for president to successfully do anything for New york. She used my state as a stepping stone to the White House.

She failed at bringing promised jobs. She failed at getting our fair share of HLS funds. She slaps on a Yankee baseball cap during elections and poof she's a New Yorker.

The GOP never $upported their candidates during Hillary's senate runs. The GOP handed her her two senate wins.

[Sulawesi]

31. LOL, telling, the only accomplishment listed is her re-election. "She is smart"? LOL

[eridani]

47. She will follow through for insurance companies and force you to subsidize them

We can afford universal CARE (not "insurance"), only if for profit insurance is eliminated. (Not that Obama is any better. Real universal health care will happen only if people push hard enought from below.)

[bvar22]

67. Forcing ALL Americans to buy their own Health "Insurance"...

...from the richest CEOs in the World is NOT Universal HealthCare.

MediCare for ALL Americans IS Universal HealthCare.

[polichick]

5. Sociopaths blame their own behavior on others...

That she could stand there and self-righteously condemn Obama for reassuring the Canadian gov't about NAFTA when she's the one who did is FLAT-OUT SICK!

[soundguy]

10. Uh Maybe We Like Winning?

Maybe you are like 12 or something. Life when Clinton was president was good, and we have no reason to think a Hillary presidency would be any different. The Clinton's know how to win. Obama has shown he can only win the red states anyway. He should get out and make a play down the road. Otherwise he is risking throwing his future away. I know you can't allow yourselves to face the reality of the situation. The far left of our party is good at typing and whining but that is about it. We almost let you destroy us in the 90's and we have little patience for your silliness these days. The adults in the swing states have spoken loud and clear yet you can't understand. What is wrong with you?

[jgraz]

29. Yeah, how's that working out for ya?

Obama: 1,458 delegates
Clinton: 1,370 delegates

[eridani]

49. It was the Clintons who destroyed us during the 90s

Losing control of Congress, losing governorships. The 90s were good only in the sense that it feels good if they stop hitting you over the head with a hammer. A slight move toward the all time high median income level of 1973 isn't nearly good enough. Not everybody benefitted from the dot com bubble.

[leftynyc]

74. You're right

Two more Scalias on the court wouldn't have made any difference at all.

[eridani]

82. I said they destroyed the party, not the Supreme Court

They paid no attention whatsoever to the disappearance of small donors, and presided over heavy losses in Congress and statehouses.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. She's intelligent, highly motivated and good on most issues

She's not perfect or great by any means, and I have long been critical of both Bill and Hillary. But she's good on reproductive rights issues, most labor issues, tax policy and environmental issues. She'll also nominate people who are actually SANE to sit on the Court.


Let me say also, as a supporter of neither, Obama is good as well. He is also intelligent, good on most issues, and will nominate good, qualified people to the Court.

And let me also say as a supporter of neither, I really can't understand how supporters of the candidates justify their hatred of the other. Obama and Clinton are both moderate, centrist to moderately left politicians who will bring sanity back to our government, but neither is going to revolutionize anything. That was Kucinich, and he's long gone. So I just don't get the venom from either camp of supporters. :shrug:

[Yossariant]

14. Have no fear about what you don't mean. You sound much more like a dumb ass.

[Syrinx]

17. if I said what I thought...

It would be my post that got deleted.

[C_U_L8R]

22. I remember 8 years of this Clinton bullshit

and as much as I love the big dog,
I always hated the deceit and the shenanigans.
I just don't want any more Clinton bullshit.
Been there, done that

[TwilightGardener]

23. She's not actually a Democrat. She's like Lieberman: Hillary Clinton, Party of One

[Not the Only One]

34. about says it all

The Clinton Party.

[Genevieve]

39. And don't forget Zell! .. nt

[lastliberalintexas]

32. Wow, I'm glad to see the pile on has begun

What started out as a fairly level headed thread with postive comments from the OP and most responders is turning into the typical GDP crap. Consider me surprised. :eyes:

[NDambi]

33. Not Me. Not ever. I will never vote for Hillary. Ever.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Syrinx]

36. you've clearly mastered the way to insult people without getting banned

I guess I'll study up.

[TwilightGardener]

40. Durty Libby is a cultist, and you insulted her Martyr Goddess.

[joeybee12]

37. Well, since your original post contains lies, can I ask why you

feel the need to ask such a stupid, loaded question?

[Syrinx]

38. you may elaborate if you wish.

[Divernan]

58. Now be far. You know he/she'snot capable of elaborating.

Probably doesn't even know what that word means.

[IsItJustMe]

41. Some Dem's are closer to the Republican Ideology than they are the left Democratic ideology. For

these folks, I don't think it bothers them when they see Bill Clinton have close ties with pappy Bush or it does not bother them when they see HRC degrades Obama in favor of McCain, even though that is over the line of political decency.

[TwilightGardener]

45. That's why Hillary supporters are trying to perpetuate the "Obama is weak" myth--

they think in terms of GOP framing--they bought it wholesale, the whole terra/fear/military-might card. They also bought the GOP/Rove way of campaigning, they love the shitty underhanded smears, legal tricks, and outrageous lies by the Clinton campaign. They've got GOP Stockholm Syndrome, and thus they see Obama the same way the GOPers see him, and probably would prefer McCain. They're Republicans who want health care and gay rights, I'm convinced.

[Medusa]

43. Because they think if they elect her, they'll get Bill

I'm convinced that is the case with a very high percentage of her supporters. Apparently they are big fans of hereditary monarchies. That didn't work out very well with Bush the II now did it?

This woman has repeatedly shown that she is utterly incapable of managing her own campaign, and these idiots want to make her Clinton the II? God help us all.

[1776Forever]

50. I am with you! How can Dem's give a free pass to her outsourcing & secretiveness???

Here are a few things to look at if you really say you can support Hillary without question:

Hillary Clinton Pushes For More H1B Visas and outsourcings - on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

Hillary's Ties to China and India Millionaires and what they have given her and Bill over the years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4935982

And

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/johnny_chung/index.html?s=oldest&

And

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4929885&mesg_id=4939693

As well as her Secrecy issue:

A Woman in Charge -- Hillary's Disturbing Secrecy Problem

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/a-secr...

By Arianna Huffington
June 25, 07

(snip)

But when it comes to the issue of secrecy and an administration operating in the shadows, there's an argument to be made that the candidate least likely to turn on the lights is Hillary Clinton. Her lifelong commitment to secrecy is one of the main themes of Bernstein's book.

"Hillary Rodham Clinton has always had a difficult relationship with the truth," writes Bernstein. "She has often chosen to obfuscate, omit, and avoid. It is an understatement by now that she has been known to apprehend truths about herself and the events of her life that others do not exactly share."

Or, as Bernstein summed it up on the Today Show, "This is a woman who led a camouflaged life and continues to."

................

And the list goes on and on and on.........
:dilemma:

[Froward69]

51. Gender, Pigment nor Religion

should determine ones choice of whom to vote for. sadly only Religion part is spelled out in the Constitution.

I cannot support Hillary based upon

(1)Her having been bought by Insurance company's. Mandatory Health Insurance... Total sellout.
(2)Her desire to Change the rules this late in the game. (and fear of caucuses)
(3)Her disdain of us "flyover states" or smaller states don't matter???

Thats three strikes not based upon gender.

[Redbear]

53. I voted for Obama but I can tell you what the Clinton poeople at my Texas caucus said

They see Hillary as strong and a fighter. They think she will work hard for universal health insurance and to improve education.

They like Obama, but they think it is way too early for him to be running for President. They think John McCain will eat him alive.

[THX1138]

54. Because

Obama supporters are so obnoxious? I haven't committed to Hillary, but Obama's supporters have sure turned me off to him.

[GarbagemanLB]

55. Excellent criteria for choosing a president! Judging them by a couple dozen people on the internet.

[TK421]

61. Like your screen name....that was a great movie

often overlooked

[Horse with no Name]

56. I ask myself that about Obama

a shady Chicago politician who bulldozed others to pad his resume and reach the pinnacle.
Very little respect for that.

[Divernan]

62. PAD his resume? Obama WAS editor of Harvard Law Review.

Chicago was lucky he chose to live there. He could have made a quick fortune with a major Wall Street firm - you know - all those high flyers Bill likes to hang with.

[SeaLyons]

60. Because she will deliver

healthcare to the American people. She does not make empty promises, cultish speeches. She is strong and will lead this country with strength and intelligence, and I do not see that in Obama. He's not ready to be Commander in Chief. We are choosing a president at a time our country is in real trouble economically and internationally. I want Hillary working for me everyday. I trust Hillary to get us back on track. Furthermore, look to the Governor of Massachusetts (Patrick) who had the same song and dance for the people in that state, check out his accomplishments since being elected. Massachusetts supports Hillary for President. I think that's a pretty good clue. Hope does not translate into action without the tenacity and fight to make it happen. Obama doesn't have it.

Hillary for President!!!

[Amaya]

63. Because she has SOOOO much

Experience that's why!! :eyes:

[Voice for Peace]

64. Sorry, I can't give you a good reason.

She has been blatantly insulting. She would not be good for this country. I can not support her.

[KaptBunnyPants]

68. 1. She's a woman.

2. The 90s were pretty good for many people. 3. The American people are astoundingly politically ignorant. That's why Hillary can run as the anti-NAFTA candidate and get away with it. The American people rely on the media and their gut to tell them whose lying. The media is completely broken, and a skillful liar can beat a gut response. Hillary is not only one herself, she's surrounded herself with them on her team. 4. She still has the remnants of the Clinton machine propping up her failed candidacy, which holds sway in many regions of the country.

Or did you mean a good reason why someone would support Hillary? If that's the case, I've got nothing.

[Seabiscuit]

69. Because she's adopted Edwards' policies more than Obama has, and I'm an Edwardian.

[557188]

75. More progressive than Obama

However so slight.

Didn't campaign with McClurkin.

Isn't open to the idea of vouchers.

Isn't talking about unity with the Republicans.

Better health care plan

An actual fighter.

More experience

Wins Ohio, Michigan, Florida and Pennsylvania in November while Obama loses those. Thus proving Hillary is far more electable with ou current system.

Didn't give a speech in 2002 and then vote to continue to fund the war while pretending to be anti-war.

Doesn't give some BS answer in regards to be calling the "Most Liberal" senator. You should embrace that label if given to you.

Those are just a few sound byte reasons.

The truth of the matter has become that Obama is more interested in unity with the Republicans while destroying the Democratic party. That is exactly what is happening with this Primary.

[Diana Prince]

79. Please.....

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term - 6 yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law (20) twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.

These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.

1.Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2.Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3.Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4.Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5.Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6.Name post office after John A. O'Shea.
7.Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8.Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9.Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10.Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11.Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12.Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13.Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14.Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express
condolences on her death.
15.Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive.
16.Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17.Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18.Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19.Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20.Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as
protected in the wilderness preservation system.
There you have it, the fact's straight from the Senate Record.
Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.
21.During the first (8) eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills.
22.He introduced 233 regarding healthcare reform, 125 on poverty and public assistance, 112 crime fighting bills, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others.
23.His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included the
*Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law,
*The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law,
*The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, - passed the Senate,
*The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law,
*The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.
In all, since entering the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.
He's not just a talker -- He's a doer.

[TexanDem]

76. because she's a woman and name recognition

how could it be anything else?

[Nine]

77. Your post lost any chance at being taken seriously with your "tool in Bill Clinton's pants" remark.

And I don't care what Hillary's political beliefs were 50 years ago. Reagan started out as a Democrat. If anything, I have more respect for the fact that she saw the light and changed. I was born and bred a Dem so I don't have that experience.

Also, she did not say or imply that McCain would be a better prez than Obama. She was saying that she would be a stronger candidate against McCain than Obama would.

And I don't believe the Canada-NAFTA rumor about her or her campaign. If there were anything there, Canada would have released the name of the Clinton staffer as the Clinton campaign has asked them to do. I think it's a smear meant to confuse and distract from the Obama memo.

I am a woman, but that is not the reason I voted for Clinton. I simply think she would make a better president than Obama. I don't know why Clinton supporters are constantly being accused of supporting Hillary simply because she's a woman. I don't think I've ever seen a Clinton supporter on here accuse an Obama supporter of supporting him only because he's black. I think it's extremely sexist to assume that and I don't care if people around here are tired of hearing about sexism. I'm tired of seeing it.

[shayes51]

78. Same reason Bama picked the Bear.

We want the best!

[lojasmo]

80. Beats me. I'll vote for the democrat in the generals....

If s/he has won a majority of the Pledged delegates, anyway.

[Phillycat]

81. Because she will do a better job than Obama.

But I wouldn't waste my breath trying to convince you.

[Danzo]

83. See My Sig