Obama supporters threaten violence in Denver

[okasha]

"Rick, if the Machine tries to give the Clintons the victory at the convention, I swear to God, Chicago's going to look like a Sadie Hawkins dance. People my age are going to be throwing stones. We all have transportation -- cell phones -- disposable income -- the Internet -- free time -- and Seattle as our example. Part of me is scared of a riot. Part of me isn't. The nomination belongs to Obama. Do you think we're going to let the Democratic Leadership Council take it? "God gave Noah the rainbow sign. No more water, fire next time."

***

One of them yielded up this response, from an Iraq War vet who works full time in Democratic politics (again, quoted with permission):
"Not to mention that there's going to be a significant Iraq veteran contingent at the convention, ready to rock 'n' roll. We've already had planning meetings about it -- we're going about it the same way that we would plan any decent military operation."

***

He then added this: "I can't emphasize enough how potentially scary things could get -- we've got folks working on the inside of the convention, and it's all done on a cell basis, so that folks only know what they need to know.

"I'm trying to keep everyone calm, as I just mentioned, but it's getting harder and harder to do so. The mood's getting ugly, and if we go to Denver without a nominee, the pressure's going to be intense from without to nominate Obama. She can win the nomination, but it won't be a prize worth having."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-perlstein/some-apocalyptic-observat_b_90096.html

[papau]

1. So now Dems cave to sore losers that threaten violence - "bring it on"

[EmilyAnne]

6. Who is caving? If threats of violence are being made, they should be inverstigated.

Two people saying stupid shit. One of them is CLEARLY off his rocker (planning a military style attack? wuh?) The other just seems to be blowing off steam in a really stupid way. All of it should be investigated.

[papau]

13. I agree - investigated and tossed into jail if true

[seabeyond]

95. more obama people taking responsibility and addressing. again how often do we see hillary

supporters owning and resolving. not once. time and again i see obama people standing up... that is the party of a leader.

[BlackVelvet04]

126. Violence makes a leader? That's sick, dude. n/t

[thevoiceofreason]

14. Aren't you the tough guy

Ther eis no credible threat of anything. If there are improper actions, the people of Denver won't pay -- the American people will pay -- with 4 more years of Bush lite.

My heart is sad thinking this could happen.

[KAZ]

18. Who's losing?

[NastyRiffraff]

2. From the vitrol and hate I've seen here on DU...

unfortunately, I'm not surprised at this. I hope cooler heads prevail, but I don't hold out much hope.

[EmilyAnne]

8. You've seen people on DU talking about military style attacks on the convention? Please, report

them. There may seem to be vitriol, but our weapons here arewords. I really haven't seen anything threatening from any of us.

[KAZ]

26. It's purpose here is to stir shit. It's been doing that for the last...

.. several weeks. It includes a picture of the Edwards to throw people off.

[SammyWinstonJack]

125. ...

:eyes:

[Hoof Hearted]

58. I did see one post from a vitriolic O supporter say "I hope his boot crushes her larynx"

I think that post remained for more than a day, advocating violence against the candidate herself. You can still do a search on larynx and come up with some of the aftermath.

[rodeodance]

74. OMG!!!

[Tellurian]

89. Yes, here is the post..

That nutcase poster should be banned for calling for the death of Hillary Clinton. At best, she should be investigated by the Secret Service.. I'm serious!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4906488#4906830

[Hoof Hearted]

127. Yeah, I think a knock on the door from secret service would change her 'tude.

Serious problems in the head, that one. Anyone who advocates that kind of violence needs help.

[stillcool]

103. Cause and effect....

no one takes responsibility for the cause, but are real keen on going bombastic about the effect. Bubbling beneath the surface:

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.

Obama is a Christian.

The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.

Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

BLACK_BARACK_HUSSEIN_REZKO_MUSLIM_SCARY_OSAMA_OBAMA
I don't think it's sitting well...

[Hoof Hearted]

128. Oooooo! You can copy and paste. I'm Sooooooo impressed!

There you go again, mistaking the awesome ability to push ctrl and v at the same time for actually having something to say.

[stillcool]

137. what's the matter?

you don't like reading those articles? I'm so glad I've saved so much Clinton-crap. I love copy and paste!!! The joy of the Internet..spread a little information every where you go. I'm sorry it bothered you.

[Tellurian]

135. I L ove your Hillary pic.. nerfing it...thanks in advance!

[Jamastiene]

57. It's hate to see 68 all over again.

It really is a really close race though.

[Usrename]

82. How is it close?

I'm curious about what her path to victory might look like.

How is she possibley going to win this thing? Lose the delegate race, lose the popular vote, and somehow come away with a win from the convention?

And this would help the party how? She won't ever win a general if she does that. Never. Her negatives will be even higher than they were when this thing started.

How does she get to the Whitehouse? Do you have any plausible scenario? What makes this a close race?

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. They might toss out some used Starbucks cups and some rubber shoes

but rocks?

[EmilyAnne]

17. Well, if those cups are full of steaming hot lattes, they could inflict some real damage!

Remember that lady who sued McDonald's over the coffee spill? Those were third degree burns, right there. Starbucks should do the right thing and close all Denver locations that day.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. At $5 a piece you can bet those would be empty first.

[EmilyAnne]

28. Nah! We're all trust fund kids who can afford to just throw away 5 bucks! We'll just have back ups!

;-)

I hope I'm not offending you, Just having a bit of fun.
Congrats to you on Hillary's big night. She kicked ass 3:1!

Here's a link to my favorite picture EVER of her, by the way.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. You're right about that. Both hands, $14.78 with the sweet roll, splash!

[jakem]

91. 3:1.. not. try 2:2

lets count texas correctly please.

[Upton]

4. What do you expect when Clinton is trying to steal

the nomination? Lets go by the rules.

[Medusa]

7. If Obama was doing what Hillary is doing,

the Hillbots would be threatening jihad.

[okasha]

10. It's interesting that you don't

catch on to the contradiction in your own statement.

[Upton]

22. pledged delegates are democratic

super delegates aren't. What does the party stand for, the people, or back room deals by party insiders?

[okasha]

25. The rules establish the role of the superdelegates.

Do you want to go by the rules, or just the rules that you believe will favor your candidate?

[Upton]

30. Going against the will of the people is wrong

If the nominee is to be chosen by party insiders, why bother holding primaries at all?

[okasha]

43. I thought you said going against the rules was wrong.

The rules of the party give the greatest weight to the delegates pledged through primaries and caucuses--which, presumably, express the will of the people. The superdelegates are the party "pros," elected by the will of the people and/or appointed by elected officials.

BTW, I take it that you believe Kennedy and Kerry should be backing Clinton, since their constituents voted for her rather resoundingly over Obama.

[Upton]

94. I can't believe that anybody who calls themselves a Democrat

would say that pledged delegates don't matter. Why hold the primaries at all?

[Upton]

109. If superdelegates vote for the winner of their state

Obama still wins
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/7/0190/93691

[Gore1FL]

129. The rules are fine

But Clinton is not going to get the 60%-85% of the Super Delegates to overturn 6 months of elections.

To pretend she is, is crazy. Even if she could pull it off, to pretend there would not be long stretching consequences is even crazier.

[CookCountyResident]

44. Another way to word it...

Pledged delegates = Elected

Super delegates = Selected

[judaspriestess]

36. LOL

too funny.

on edit to response #10

[BalancedGoat]

19. It wouldn't be against the rules.

I believe that you are thinking of the FL and MI delegates. I think has more to do with the fact that in the most likely situation in which Clinton wins the super delegates will have had to go against the will of the people as reflected by the pledged delegates.

[thunder rising]

5. Yeah! I think it's about that time when we find out that we REALLY don't count that shit hits fan

But not to worry. The superdelegates will vote for coat-tails, and with the split in the party Hillary will not have any, The Congress will return to Republican control and we'll loose the government again. So, they WILL choose Obama, if for nothing else, self preservation. The loses will be spectacular otherwise.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. True that. Lots of the SDs are elected officials themselves. nt

[Cha]

9. And yet it's hilary who wants to steal the election

by any means necessary.

[Rageneau]

15. You got a source for that?

Or are you just doing what Obama does -- endlessly spouting meaningless words?

[anamandujano]

39. The latter.

[rodeodance]

75. Spewing sewage without anything to back it up. SHAME ON YOU!

9. And yet it's hilary who wants to steal the election

by any means necessary.

[goldcanyonaz]

12. LOL! And from the supposed anti war candidates supporters.

[EmilyAnne]

23. Perspective, please. These are TWO frickin' people. Come on. They should be investigated and

thrown into jail if they are threatening violence, period. Why would this person pass this on the the HRC campaign without passing on to Law Enforcement? Its not her job to deal with these nuts and, if they really are planning something against her, jeez, that could really endanger her. It should be reported, investigated and stopped!

[blogslut]

16. ZOMG!

Some fanboy emails a crazy letter to Rick Perlstein. Perlestein blasts his listserve with the email and gets one wacko response? O Noes!!!!1!1!!one!

[gristy]

21. hmmm... with friend like that, you don't need enemies

Clearly, these are not Obama supporters.

[Larkspur]

24. What's Hillary going to do with the Iraq Vets protesting her if she

is coronated the Dem nominee? Send them back to Iraq?

[against all enemies]

97. Iraq Vets should thank Hillary, without her they wouldn't be war vets.

[IsItJustMe]

27. Anyone can talk smack. This is off-the-wall.

[Skip Intro]

29. And I'm sure they call the Clintons thugs. I hope there's some kind of investigation of these nuts.

Is it the hope or the unity that motivates them?

[PurityOfEssence]

31. Well, that would just guarantee a Republican victory, now wouldn't it?

Red-rum, red-rum.

I see dumb people.

I'm blah as hell, and I'm just gonna take it some more.

It's whineytown, Jake.

[frazzled]

33. Drama quotes from three unnamed sources? Rick Pearlstein should know better

And he should realize that with power comes responsibility--the responsibility not to throw out stink bombs.

Suppose I wrote a column about what I heard some people say:

An older fremale friend of mine who lives in a Midwestern city sent me the following observation today:

If they push Obama over the top in Denver, they're going to split the goddamn party down the middle. I happen to have BEEN in Chicago in 1968: got myself gassed in Grant Park. I'm of the generation who supports Clinton. I know what we're like. Shit, I know what I'm like, and my bunions aren't so bad yet that I can't get out and Denver and burn my bra for Hillary.

Frazzled, if the SDs try to give Obama the victory at the convention, I swear to God, Chicago's going to look like a Sadie Hawkins dance. People my age are going to be throwing stones. . We all have transportation -- cell phones -- disposable income -- the Internet -- free time -- and the MC5 as our heritage. Part of me is scared of a riot. Part of me isn't. The nomination belongs to Clinton. Do you think we're going to let the Congressional Black Caucus take it? " We are going to Kick Out the Jams Motherfuckers--- all over again.

Yup, I can see all those ladies of a certain age swearing and singing old Richie Havens songs and throwing their Liz Claiborne satchel bags at the heads of the pigs surrounding the Pepsi Center.

I take them seriously.

[cottonseed]

34. O'Rielly likes making this type of argument.

He's convinced Huffingtonpost and Kos are no better than Nazis. It's a big site, hard to moderate. You'll find some nuts.

[durrrty libby]

35. BO and his thugs will destroy the party. He needs to get out

[Recursion]

121. "thugs" again

Nothing racial here, nope, not at all...

[mmonk]

37. Yeah, I think about doing violence all the time.

We're all scum trying to take away the one person on earth deemed great enough for the job, the poor mistreated Hillary Clinton. By the way, I have this bridge in Brooklyn....

[NJSecularist]

38. If it gets to the convention, we will see a fair share of Hillary thugs and Obama thugs fighting

No candidate's supporters are better than the other..

[anamandujano]

40. It's the Obama supporters who have been threatening. Wake up.

[stillcool]

104. Isn't it wonderful?

all this time, people have been wondering where the American people are in the face of what has been going on. Looks like this time they're going to show up!!

[Beregond2]

41. Threaten...

Um...ok, I'll go along with the "they should be investigated line" and all that. And yet...I have to laugh. People are seriously comparing this situation to 1968, and then talking like a sewing circle. Everyone on this board is so full of big talk about change, but the slightest suggestion of radical action to bring it about, and everyone wets themselves. I'm not advocating violence. But lets not pretend to be so all-fired progressive when the mere thought of taking it to the streets turns us all into nattering old aunties.

I was there at a Humphrey rally in Seattle in 68, when thousands of SDS kids wouldn't let him speak, and had to be taken out by force. I was in Seattle when kids once again brought the reality of the WTO to the world's attention, instead of spewing hot air on the internet. And those were two of the best nights of my life.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." There does come a point when freedom has to be fought for, and with more than words. I don't have the slightest fear that the SDs will overturn the will of the people. But if they do, I think extreme protest is entirely justified (and I would say the same, no matter which candidate were deprived of the nomination.) If 2000 had happened in France, a general strike would have been called, and the country would have ground to a halt until all the legal ballots were counted and totalled, and the real winner installed as President. But Americans sat on their asses. The result has been the past seven years of hell. If some Americans have finally woken-up to the possible need for extreme action to save our republic, I think they should be applauded, not dismissed as loons.

[Melinda]

65. Best post of the night!! I was one of those "SDS" kids, albeit not in Seattle or Chicago...

and not inclined toward violence (I "unjoined" after the split in late '68) but I certainly well recall those years, the radicalism, and taking "activism" to the streets. The mock horror toward the OP and its message within posted by so many on this message board proves to me just how assimilated and mind-fucked middle americans really are.

Jesus. I feel as if I'm on a junior league website and I know that most those who post here have never done anything remotely resembling part-time vigilance, much less eternal.

Careful though comrade -- or you may find yourself tagged Mark, and I'll be tagged Bernadine. :sarcasm:


Love, love, love everything about your post; well done.

[davidinalameda]

42. and just who are these Obama supporters quoted in the article?

just curious

[sandnsea]

45. If she thinks she's going to steal this with SD's

it's going to get ugly. I've been saying this for a while. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind. Some of us have had ENOUGH.

[Bake]

46. Then just jump on out there and bring it on.

You're about one step removed from the idiots quoted in the OP.

That's freakin' insane.

Bake

[sandnsea]

63. Standing up for democracy is not insane

We should have stopped this shit in 2000.

[rodeodance]

78. stop with 'stealing" crap!!

[Bake]

47. Wow! Cell phones, disposable income, and free time

You couldn't write a better comedy piece if you tried! I'm skeered!

I think the latte is ready ...

Bake

Edited to add: Some of us have to WORK for a living ...

[Hoof Hearted]

48. Threats of violence and thuggery. Nice. Is that hope? or change?

That will be attractive to the mass electorate.

Idiots.

[stillcool]

106. Threats of violence and thruggery?

it's the American Way!! It's who we are!

I've seen bodies ripped to pieces by bullets, blown into millions of scraps by bombs, and pierced by booby traps. I’ve smelled the stench of bodies burned. I’ve heard the air sound like it was boiling from rounds flying back and forth. I’ve lived an insanity others should never live..."
-- Dennis Tenety, Fire in the Hole

●-Michael C.C. Adams, The Best War Ever: America and World War II About 25-30 percent of WWII casualties were psychological cases; under very severe conditions that number could reach as high as 70-80percent. In Italy, mental problems accounted for 56 percent of total casualties. On Okinawa, where fighting conditions were particularly horrific, 7,613 Americans died, 31,807 sustained physical wounds, and 26, 221 were mental casualties.-Adams, 95Trying to repress feelings, they drank, gambled suffered paralyzing depression, and becameinarticulately violent. A paratrooper’s wife would “sit for
hours and just hold him when he shook. Afterward, he started beating her and the children: “He became a
brute.” And they divorced —-Adams, 150

All Soldiers Fade Away
Justin HudallPosted November 11, 2007 | 06:39 PM (EST)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-hudnall/all-soldie...

"Thirty-five percent of Iraq war veterans accessed mental health services in the year after returning home, while 12% per year were diagnosed with a mental health problem. Against this grim backdrop is an issue that has ignited debate among veterans, government officials and civilians in the healthcare industry: how the Veterans Affairs Department could improve access to healthcare services for rural veterans, who account for about 40% of the VA's patient population." There are 21 states with higher than the national average of veterans within their populations. Eighteen of these are rural states.Because of advances in body armor and medical technology, this war will produce a higher proportion of seriously wounded, traumatized, and brain-damaged veterans than any other.Compounding this is an expected baby boom among military personnel, meaning that the next generation, growing up in the shadow of the Iraq war, will be significantly affected as well.

PTSD and Murder Among Newest Veterans
Jon Soltz | Posted January 14, 2008 | Politics
This weekend, while the 24-hour primary coverage raged on, the New York Times published a very well researched and stunning report on the number of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans involved in killings, here in America. They found at least 121 cases, now, where a veteran was charged with involvement in a homicide.The trend of our newest veterans being involved in killings on the homefront can be largely attributed to four letters -- PTSD. Our failure to properly screen for and treat this mental injury is the source of so many problems our newest veterans face -- from drug and alcohol abuse, to homelessness, to joblessness, to spousal abuse, to suicide, and now, to murders.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/ptsd-and-murder...

Battle Continues Over Vietnam PTSD Numbers
08.23.07, 12:00 AM ET
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlek...
THURSDAY, Aug. 23 (HealthDay News) --
-In the years following the end of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, the actual number of veteran psychologically scarred by what they had encountered in the war became the subject of heated controversy.
A 1988 study, conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, estimated a relatively low lifetime rate of PTSD among veterans of 14.7 percent.
-------------------------------------------------------
"The most important results have been underemphasized, and that is the dose/response relationship, and that's about as close as you can come to a causal relationship," he said. "The other thing is the rate of 1-in-5 war-related onset of PTSD and 1-in-10 still current after the war of impairing PTSD. That
is far from trivial. This is a heavy cost by any count.

This article originally appeared in the July 2007 volume of the Zero To Three
Journal on Coping With Separation and Loss.
The Young Military Child
Our Modern Telemachus
Stephen J. Cozza
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
Alicia F. Lieberman
University of California, San Francisco
-A combat mindset or what has been referred to as Battlemind can lead to misdirected irritability or aggression that can impact on small children. Irritability, emotional rage, jumpiness, hypervigilance, or overreactivity can all lead to family conflict and misunderstanding on the part of the young child. Social withdrawal or reduced communication because of anxiety about sharing upsetting war-related experiences may cause further withdrawal from family members and lead to a child’s confusion about the meaning of such parental nonavailability.
—Postdeployment emotional and behavioral responses can range from more typical short-term distress responses, such as change in sleep, decreased sense of safety, or social isolation, to the development of more serious psychiatric conditions, such as post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or depression.
Studies conducted by Hoge and colleagues (Hoge et al., 2004; Hoge, Auchterlonie, & Milliken, (2005) at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research have demonstrated significant postdeployment distress in populations of combat exposed soldiers and marines returning from Iraq. When screened 12 months after return from combat deployment, nearly 20% of service members endorsed symptoms consistent with a mental
disorder, most often PTSD or depression.
—Studies have demonstrated that the children of parents with depression (Beardslee, Versage, & Gladstone, 1998) evidence significant problems in a wide range of functional areas. Children of Vietnam veterans with PTSD are more likely to evidence symptoms similar to those of their combat-exposed fathers (Rosenheck & Nathan, 1985; Rosenheck & Thompson, 1986).
http://www.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer

FIELD MANUAL NO. 22-51
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
Washington, DC, 29 September 1994
CHAPTER 5
BATTLE FATIGUE FM 22-51
5-1. Introduction
Battle fatigue is the approved US Army term (AR 40-216) for combat stress symptoms and reactions which

* Feel unpleasant.
* Interfere with mission performance.
* Are best treated with reassurance, rest, replenishment of physical needs, and activities which restore confidence.
a. Battle fatigue can also be present in soldiers who have been physically wounded or who have nonbattle injuries or diseases caused by stressors in the combat area. It may be necessary to treat both the battle fatigue and the other problems.
b. Battle fatigue may coexist with misconduct stress behaviors. However, battle fatigue itself, by definition, does not warrant legal or disciplinary action.
---------------
b.Leader and medical personnel in forward areas should expect as many or more soldiers to present with duty or rest battle fatigue as there will be hold and refer cases. It is essential that the former not
become casualties by unnecessarily evacuating or holding them for treatment.
c. In general, the more intense the combat, especially with indirect fire and mass destruction, more cases become heavy and need holding or referral, and the harder it is for them to recover quickly and return to duty.
d. Fifty to eighty-five percent of battle fatigue casualties (hold and refer) returned to duty following 1 to 3 days of restoration treatment, provided they are kept in the vicinity of their units (for example, within the division).
NOTE
Premature evacuation of battle fatigue soldiers out of the combat zone must be prevented as it often results in permanent psychiatric disability. If the tactical situation permits, the vacuation policy in the corps should be extended from 7 to 14 days for the reconditioning program, as this will substantially
improve the returned to duty rate and decrease subsequent chronic disability.

HEALTH-US: Iraq Vets Left in Physical and Mental Agony
By Aaron Glantz
The group Veterans for America, formerly the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, estimates that 10,000 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are now living on the street.

"What's unique about the men and women coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan is that they're not able to integrate with their family," Feldstein said. "They've seen horrible things. They've been in horrible places and their family can't relate. And so you become homeless in the last place you lived."

A recent study by Harvard's Kennedy School of Government found that by the time the Iraq and Afghanistan wars end, there will be at least two and a half million vets.
------------------------------------
Pentagon studies show that 12 percent of soldiers who have served in Iraq suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. The group Veterans for America, formerly the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, estimates 70,000 Iraq war veterans have gone to the VA for mental health care.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36056

CHILD ABUSE STATISTICS

In 1999, an estimated 3,244,000 children were reported to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies as alleged victims of child maltreatment. Child abuse reports have maintained a steady growth for the past ten years, with the total number of reports nationwide increasing 45% since 1987 (Nation Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse (NCPCA) 2000 Annual Fifty State Survey).
-----------

In 1999, an estimated 1,401 child abuse and neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

The U.S. Advisory Board reported that near fatal abuse and neglect each year leave "18,000 permanently disabled children, tens of thousands of victims overwhelmed by lifelong psychological trauma, thousands of traumatized siblings and family members, and thousands of near-death survivors who, as adults, continue to bear the physical and psychological scars. Some may turn to crime or domestic violence or become abusers themselves (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995 report, A National's Shame.)"
-----------------------------
Finding of the NIS-3:

* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

* More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
* More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
* Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
* 60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.


(Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect, September 1996 and Reid, T. (1996). News NIS-3 Data. APSAC Advisor, 9 (3).)
Children whose parents abuse drugs or alcohol are put at a greater risk for violent victimization (National Commission on Children, 1993).

With the exception of homicide, children and youths suffer more victimization than do adults in virtually every category, including physical abuse, sibling assault, bullying, sexual abuse, and rape (American Psychological Association Commission on Violence and Youth, 1993).

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers (National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992).

In over 9000 divorces in 12 states, child sexual abuse allegations were made in less then 2% of contested divorces involving child custody (Association of Family Conciliation Courts, 1990).

Survivors:
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today (Forward, 1993)

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships (Browne & Finkelhor, 1986).

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

Guilt is experienced by almost all victims (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

If a child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict (Courtois & Watts, 1982).

Adults who viewed domestic violence in the home as children have a greater difficulty holding jobs, maintaining relationships with their peers and have a higher risk of developing mental health disorders (Patterson, 1992).

• In 2000, 1.5 million U.S. children had an incarcerated parent. Between 1990-2001, the number of women in prison increased by 106%.
• In 1995, 12% of children in foster care had not received routine health care. 90% had not received services to address developmental delays.
• Between 1992-2002, the number of infants and toddlers entering foster care increased by 110%.
• In 1993, more than 60% of the homeless population in NYC municipal shelters were former foster youth.
• According to a 1999 report, less than 50% of foster youth had graduated from high school, compared to 85% of the general population.
• In 2000, of 732 mid-western foster care youths, nearly 52% had lived in three or more foster homes and had moved schools.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are more than half a million children and youth in the U.S. foster care system, a 90% increase since 1987.Three of 10 of the nation’s homeless are former foster children.
A recent study has found that 12-18 months after leaving foster care:
27% of the males and 10% of the females had been incarcerated
33% were receiving public assistance
37% had not finished high school
50% were unemployed
Children in foster care are three to six times more likely than children not in care to have emotional, behavioral and developmental problems,

A study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenille Justice found 70% of these youth meet the criteria for at least one mental health disorder. What's worse is that 36% of the parents of these youth intentionaly involved the juvenille justice system to access mental health services...some 12,700 children were places in either child welfare, or the juvenilled justice systems to access mental health systems (U.S. GAO 2003) Of course, the U.S. DOJ in recent investigations into the conditions in these juvenille detention and correctional facilities, found inadequate access to treatment, inappropriate use of medications, and neglect of suicide attempts nationwide (U.S.DOJ 2005).
---80 percent of prison inmates have been through the foster care system.

* 872,000 children and youth were confirmed victims of abuse or neglect in the United States in 2004.

[Hoof Hearted]

122. Oooooo! You can copy and paste. I'm Sooooooo impressed!

I always have to laugh at chuckle-heads like you who mistake ctrl+v spam for actually having something to say.

[stillcool]

138. what's the matter? You don't like...

those articles? And yes,..I copy and past really well. I've got some more, but you're probably not interested. Maybe another time.

[Bake]

118. That's the "new kind of politics" apparently

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss ...

Bake

[RunningFromCongress]

49. If Supers overturn the pop vote & pledged dels, there will be riots. And there SHOULD be!

[SammyWinstonJack]

130. Just curious, will these riots be anything like the 'riots' in after 2000 anointment

that left Gore out in the cold? :silly:

[Eurobabe]

50. Hillary is destroying the party with her machinations.

I can see why possible violence would happen, I don't condone it, but I see it coming. Alot of normal people are pissed off.

[backscatter712]

51. Breaking skulls seems a little much...

but I'm all for breaking the party if the superdelegates override the will of the voters.

[Bluebear]

69. "I'm all for breaking the party" - - - then kindly LEAVE DU.

[backscatter712]

101. Some people forget that BEFORE I'm a Democrat, I'm an American.

I am a Democrat solely for the reason of influencing and collaborating with fellow Democrats, fellow like-minded Americans to make America a better place.

But if people in the Democratic party are poisoning the party's processes, subverting the nomination to produce a candidate that is not good for the country, who like Bush, does not have the high character and proper personality for the job, then it's time to start making decisions.

Right now, the decision is to fight within the Democratic party and push it to nominate a better person.

But if the efforts of us fail, and we're stuck with a sociopath for a nominee, then it's time to ask whether America would be better served by supporting a different party.

America always comes first. It comes before the party, and it absolutely comes before a particular person in the party.

If you want to kick me off this board for putting my country before my party, then do it!

Right here. Right now.

[Hoof Hearted]

123. Some people don't actually think it's about YOU. And in case you hadn't noticed, you're on

DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.COM.

It's right there in all caps in the upper left-hand corner of your monitor.

K? Get it now?

[backscatter712]

132. You think I'm dumb?

I am a Democrat, which is why I'm here, and advocating for Obama.

And if Clinton wins the nomination fair and square, by getting a majority of the votes in the caucuses and primaries, by earning the privilege of representing us as our nominee for President, then yes, I'll vote for her.

But if she continues to subvert the process, if she uses dealing in smoke-filled rooms to override the will of the voters, then to hell with it - at that point, the Democratic Party will have failed in its job - to serve America, to promote progressive ideals, and to promote democracy.

I'm an American first, and a liberal first, and I joined the Democratic Party because it promised to serve those ideals. If the party fails, I'll look elsewhere for those ideals to be served.

If that means I get tombstoned, so be it. I've had worse things happen to me than getting booted off a web forum.

[krabigirl]

116. Ugh. Look, I don't want Obama, can't stand the guy, but if he wins, I will live with it.

Perhaps you should do the same...

[backscatter712]

134. If Hillary earns the nomination fair and square, I'd vote for her.

But it looks like the math's against that, so really, she should bow out.

Her only hope is to override the will of the voters by wheeling and dealing with superdelegates in smoke-filled rooms, and for a party that is supposed to be promoting democracy, that's completely unacceptable.

Let me put it this way. I will vote for the Democrat that earns the most popular votes.

[AX10]

52. Huffington has had it out for the Clintons.

Her kind would like to use violence to further their goals. No suprise here.
:puke:

[backscatter712]

124. Now you're off the deep end.

I've never heard Arianna Huffington advocate violence.

[BenDavid]

53. fear, fear fear if obama is not chosen.....well hell if this happened

obama would stand back and watch it and say "burn baby burn." Just like he stood back and said nothing about his people and the media calling bill and hillary clinton bigots and racists and knowing in his heart it was he that started this whole damn race baiting and playing the race card with the help of some media people and blamed it all on the clintons....Yes this tells me a lot about obama....the man who wants to help heal the hole in the souls of others but has a hole in his own damn soul...Heal thyself brother.....

[anonymous171]

66. What with you and "holes in souls"?

Compensating?

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. GDP is becoming high comedy

This guy gets an email from a friend and posts it on Huffington Post as proof that "Obama supporters" will be violent in Denver.

My neighbor's cousin's son's friend told me that Hillary supporters are going to riot if she doesn't get the nomination.

See how that works now? :rofl:

I swear some days I think I am in freeperland instead of DU.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

55. "The nomination belongs to Obama"

how about we wait until all the states have had a chance to vote?

[rodeodance]

77. they are dangerous people.

[krabigirl]

117. He is their anointed One.

[Jamastiene]

56. Gee, so I predicted this about a month ago and got

called a racist, never mind what my actual race is. From denigration to vindication. I knew it. Told you so.

[backscatter712]

59. More seriously...

Being a resident of the Denver metro area, I'm probably gonna be right at ground zero - I'm gonna try to get elected as a delegate for Colorado at the convention (I'm a precinct delegate - I'm going to apply for county, then state level delegate status and try to get it, though it looks awful tough...) and even if I'm not, I'm probably going to join some of the protests outside of the convention.

If the supers nominate Clinton even though she can't beat Obama in terms of pledged delegates, there will likely be a riot. I have no intention of participating in the violence, but the idea of getting caught in one gives me pause...

I suppose I should be going to a lawyer and having a will made...

[boppers]

60. Sounds familiar.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The above was written by people willing to resort to violence.

Hopefully, it is readily recognizable to everyone reading this message. If you don't recognize or understand it, you simply aren't informed enough to cast a vote in the US.

[anonymous171]

61. If she wins by SDs alone, there will be hell to pay.

And the party will deserve everything it gets. I'm not advocating riots, but intense protests would be extremely appropriate.

[Mooney]

62. But I only became a Democrat so I could participate in riots.

What utter horseshit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. LOL

Yeah, what time does this week's riot start?

[Forrest Greene]

67. On The Other Hand

...it was often said, by smarter heads than I, that the FBI's agent provocateur would always be the guy who wanted most badly to use the dynamite.

[avrdream]

68. Damn, I missed THIS one earlier.

Freaks in every crowd, I guess.

Though it is hard for me to imagine any of those wise old women who support Hillary planning to get violent like this.

[amborin]

70. actually, i got some inklings of this tonight...from some folks where i work

they were writing down items concerning a revolution....this whole thing could get extremely nasty...and it appears there's some planning going on now

[ExFreeper4Obama]

71. If Hillary tries to thwart the will of the people there will be hell to pay

[rodeodance]

72. hope you are not in line with OP.

[aquarius dawning]

87. The will of the people is not unified behind Obama. he has little more than 50% of the popular vote

and much of that support doesn't even come from Democrats, it comes from people who have voted for George Bush at least once and possibly twice. If this turns to violence, I will laugh when the police round up the loudmouths and send them to jail. I can only hope that many felony convictions are handed out in the process so that these punks advocating violence lose their political voice.

[sueragingroz]

140. and if he happens to be 20% in the polls when the convention starts?

And he could end up there if his campaign keeps faltering as it has been.

Then what?

[rodeodance]

73. "The nomination belongs to Obama"--so, the person in the OP is deluded!

[rodeodance]

76. rec

[bridgit]

79. No shit!! I seen this coming, it's Rodney King time...

And it will only go down from here oh well

[jgraz]

86. Rodney King time????

Nicely played.

[bling bling]

80. Sounds like bullshit to me. "I'm trying to keep every calm, but it's getting hard and harder..."

Uh, yeah. Sure.

Obama's supporters aren't a bunch of thugs. This is tasteless reporting and it appears it's being milked here. This isn't healthy to push this shit if you care about the Democratic Party. And I would like to just note that it's not being pushed around for show and tell by Obama supporter, for the record.

[rodeodance]

83. perhaps you can look into this being investigated?

[Seeker30]

81. I'm not surprised

By some of the Obama Babies reaction to this, its been obvious for some time that a lot of them are driven by hatred, and this is a perfect example of why I will never support Obama. It is the same hatred I've from the Bushbots for the past 8 years.

So to the clueless, just how the fuck is Hillary trying to steal the nomination? Because she hasnt dropped out and is standing in the way of your saviour? Because she exposes that your god isnt what you thought? Some of you are nothing but radicals with misguided energy, and I can't wait to say..

President Clinton

[sueragingroz]

141. i gotta wonder if these are the same people

that blindly followed Bush the last time?

[The Doctor.]

84. Uhhh... so there's going to be a big military-style coup at the convention if Hillary is

nominated?

[LaurenG]

85. I hadn't heard a thing about this, either has my son who is Vice Chair of his precinct

in Denver and an Obama alt delegate.

Funny how one person can make this into so much more than what is really there. :shrug:

[JVS]

88. That's dedication!

:toast:

[bigtree]

90. I now fully believe that the majority of her vicious critics here will be cheering them on

. . . if not right there beside them. They are working to divide and destroy our party if they don't get their way, while, at the same time, castigating Clinton for threating the party and Obama's future for *just continuing her campaign.

[Tellurian]

92. kr

[mjg540]

93. THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE!

That is absolutely what Obama is creating....A movement without a cause. Obama has not won this, I will assume you're young and you may have been educated under Bush's No Child Left Behind, but 2025 is the magic number. If Obama nor Clinton do not have that many delegates, they didn't win. Period! The Super Delegates have the party to watch out for. Remember we don't want a Mussaraff policy in Pakistan, well we don't want a Obama or Clinton policy in Denver.
I'm also going to throw this out there....Why does Obama do better at a caucus....because bus loads of ineligible voters storm the caucus sites and no one goes back to verify their right to vote...If I were a betting person, I would put money on that. I would really like the states to go back and verify the voters, my money would be that he would loose Iowa where it all began.

[northernsoul]

96. OMG! Someone posted some anonymous quotes on the internet that sound ominous!!!

This is definitely threat level ORANGE!!! I gotta go buy some duct tape now.

[auburngrad82]

99. I expect they were accompanied by a photo of a scary looking black dude

Let's see if we can scare people into supporting Clinton. Sounds like a tactic the GOP has been known to use in the past...

[northernsoul]

100. Is Willie Horton still alive?

n/t

[BigDDem]

98. Every day...more examples of "HOPE!" and "CHANGE!"

Classy group

[GoldieAZ49]

102. the party of peace threatens violence - amusing

Does anyone reading this stuff realize why dems lose elections?

If there is violence and riots in Denver McCain will win, and rightly so.


It may well be time for the Democratic party to have an overhaul, reorganization or whatever you want to call it. If they resort to violence at the convention they will have 15 to 20 years to figure it out. I am beginning to doubt if they can.

[The Stranger]

105. The Empowered often cite the taboo against violence to perpetuate their own monopoly of it.

Wake up, people. There are institutions in place perpetuating the notion that violence is abhorrent in all its forms -- while these very same institutions wreak some of the greatest and most extraordinary violence in history -- invading, bombing, and destroying nations and infrastructures, stealing natural resources from other peoples right out from under their feet, obliterating human beings on a daily basis with the latest in the technology of mass murder, torturing the innocent.

Wake up, people.

[CitizenRob]

110. ding ding ding!!!

Seriously. We have a huge disparity in the power structure of this nation BECAUSE the left hasn't used violence to remind the right that there is in fact something worth fearing in the middle and lower classes.

[CitizenRob]

107. Let's hope they show the same initiative in November.

[Moochy]

108. Hillary Clinton Supporter Posts bullshit

News at 11!

:puke:

Stoop lower Hillary supporters, I think it's possible.

[redqueen]

111. Two unnamed sources, one of which sounds about 17.

Sorry, but this stinks to high heaven.

I'm chalking it up to even more desperation from the campaign that thought it'd all be over on Feb 5.

More fearmongering. Lovely.

[Bright Eyes]

112. So basically one nut talks about violence

equals "Obama supporters threaten violence in Denver"?

Painting with a broad brush, much?

[Alamom]

113. I hope this is BS. If not, these people should be very aware of how quick & easy G*B can declare ML

(Martial Law) It's been his dream since before he became Prez. He wanted to be a dictat*r. This would be the perfect storm to give him the title he desires, the power he wants and there would be no elections....no anything. This would be a very stupid thing to do as long as he is prez.

Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Ver.) -
A little-noted provision of the recently passed Defense Authorization Act allows President Bush to send in the military to police any trouble spot in this country regardless of the wishes of state governors.

On Oct. 17, President Bush signed the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007.
>

A highly controversial and little-known aspect of the act “contains a widely opposed provision to allow the president more control over the National Guard changes to the Insurrection Act, which will make it easier for this or any future president to use the military to restore order without the consent of the nation’s governors,” Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Ver.) said.

Americans “certainly do not need to make it easier for presidents to declare martial law,” Leahy said. “Invoking the Insurrection Act and using the military for law enforcement activities goes against some of the central tenets of our democracy. One can easily envision governors and mayors in charge of an emergency having to constantly look over their shoulders while someone who has never visited their communities gives the orders.”


>


There is good reason, Leahy said, “for the constructive friction in existing law when it comes to martial law declarations. Using the military for law enforcement goes against one of the founding tenets of our democracy. We fail our Constitution, neglecting the rights of the states, when we make it easier for the president to declare martial law and trample on local and state sovereignty.”

The law allows the president to “employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in federal service, to restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any state or possession of the United States, that the president determines that domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order to suppress in any state, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination or conspiracy.”

“Or other condition” is a critical line in the new law, skeptics say. The president can send the National Guard into any community for any—even frivolous—reasons, they argue.





http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/martial_law_made_easy.html

Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003



http://leahy.senate.gov/issues/InsurrectionAct/index.html

Insurrection Act

Under the new language, added to the law in the fall of 2006, the President can invoke the act and declare martial law in cases where public order breaks down as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, terrorist attack, or under the nebulous term of �other conditions."

This change makes it easier for the President to invoke the Act in cases beyond an insurrection � cases which were not intended under the previous purpose of the Act. With these succinct but sweeping changes, the President now does not have to contact or collaborate with any state agency in taking control of the Guard and injecting federal military forces, to carry out patrols or make arrests. The President has to notify but not explain to Congress that he or she believes that states cannot handle the situation.

[krabigirl]

114. LOL, what? Coming from people who belive in hope and unity?

This sickens me. Protest all you want, but violent rioting? Because your candidate may not win? Where the hell were these people claiming to riot in 2000, when Bush REALLY stole the election, or in 2004 when Kerry lost? Or, during the past 8 years of hell we've lived in since Bu*h has been in office? ???????? Maybe they were too young? BS!!!!

[kentuck]

115. Is this 3 or 4 nuts? Or does that include all Obama supporters?

Explain.

[SeaLyons]

119. This scarey post

only goes to prove the people that would get involved in something like this are electing a "movement" - not a President.

[CyberPieHole]

120. What a SHOCKER? Obama supporters resorting to VIOLENCE?

Who knew?:evilgrin:

[mdmc]

131. lol

It would be the first time in a long time that the dems fought for something

[On the Road]

133. The Party is Not Going to Pull a 1968 This Time

but if it did, the different factions all know their roles at the convention.

[Joe the Revelator]

136. If Clinton steals the nomination from the voters there should be an outcry

[sueragingroz]

139. That's helpful...

:banghead: