After 4 years at DU, I don't think I've ever posted in GD:P before...but, I've gotta ask:

[AzDar]

Are y'all okay with the way Hillary is conducting her campaign?

Because I'm utterly gobsmacked.

Whether it's the Rovian '3 AM' ad; or appearing to suggest that John McCain would be preferable to Obama in the White House; to the unsubstantiated NAFTA bullshit, I simply can't believe a Democrat is doing this to another Dem, OR the Party.

Haven't we had enough of being terrorized and betrayed during the past 7 years?

Is this okay with ANYONE? Because it certainly isn't for THIS DEM.

No fucking thanks, Hillary.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Well Smack my Gob! An Outraged Gobsmacker!

[AzDar]

4. Oh, I'll smack your gob allright, Guvnor...

(I've had way too many Red Bulls)

:rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. How is that Redbull?

I've never tried it.

[AzDar]

21. I drink the sugar-free kind... I love it. Makes me all uppity, though.

;-)

[tishaLA]

22. RockStar is preferable. The Zero Carb version

[AzDar]

25. I'll have to try it!

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. Ok, so is like Coke or something?

(I am honestly curious, but have never asked anybody about it, I just see the little cans at the gas station minimart)

[AzDar]

35. It tastes like Cream Soda to me...and has about the same kick as a double-shot of espresso.

You should try it!

[The_Casual_Observer]

37. Only when I'm away from this computer.

I get in enough trouble around here as it is.

[tishaLA]

45. It's in a 16 oz. can; RedBull is 8 oz

and RockStar Zero Carb has 150 mg caffeine/serving...and there are 2 servings per can. It's a better buzz than Red Bull and it tastes better, too. But you have to make sure to get the Zero Carb; if they don't have Zero Carb, go for the RockStar Juiced! (50% juice). Avoid original and sugar free RockStar.

It's not cola flavored, like Coke. It's a kind of berry flavor, less carbonated, much more caffeine.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UDrJFoA6L._AA280_PIbundle-24,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg

[0007]

96. Does it have that Victorian smell & taste.

Does it dissolve hair balls. I have three cats.


Of course I don't think these dears need any more energy.

[quakerboy]

61. No it is not like coke

Think slightly sour sprite with less sugar. A little sweet, not a huge amount of flavor, except for the Taurine (if you've had it, you would know. Its in a lot of things nowdays). A lot of carbonation burn, especialy when drunk rapidly.

In point of fact, it goes well with Jager... a bull then a shot, and repeat until very red in the face.

[casus belli]

91. Sweetest sugar-free energy drink I've ever tasted. n/t

[TexanDem]

2. no, I'm not happy with her campaign

As Jack Cafferty says, she's the poster child for the way things have been. More and more of the same!
Welcome to the GD:P board! :)

[Cha]

78. I like that quote by Cafferty..

Thanks, Texas Dem..

[marylanddem]

3. She is a freaking albatross at this point.

[Levgreee]

5. Very many of us are not satisfied.This forum is now probably about 10-20% n support of Hillary, from

30-40%. The people who have followed her offensive campaign have distanced themselves from her and criticized her.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Word!

[Pirate Smile]

7. I hope there is an enormous backlash against this crap.

Anyone thinking there was any chance of a "dream ticket" can just wake the hell up because there is no way in hell that is going to happen now.

[TheDonkey]

8. Her campaign is an embarassment. I haven't felt so insulted since Joe Lieberman

Hillary will find no gutter to dirty.

[DrFunkenstein]

10. My wife really thought that was a McCain ad

After the planted questions, the Clinton campaign has consistently followed the nastiest precedents by the past two elections.

[marylanddem]

11. It will be.

[Kittycat]

14. I did as well... until the end. I totally freaked out.

I could not believe a democrat put that out, after what our country has been through. It was just shameful. And when I thought it couldn't get anyworse - the McCain support comments started. Dear God, what in the hell is she doing to this party?

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. If you're not outraged

you haven't been paying attention.

Both Hillary and McCain's advisors work for the same
company. owned by Mark Penn, who is Charles R. Black Jr boss in business.

Charles R. Black Jr is John McCain's chief political adviser and advises Bush and
the GOP.

[AzDar]

23. Jeez. I did not know that. I guess I haven't been paying attention closely enough.

HOW is this acceptable? To any DEM?

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. Link to this information

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4933692&mesg_id=4933874

[AzDar]

36. Thanks!

:hi:

[seabeyond]

13. i stayed out of this room. monday i came in and saw hillarys rove/bushco campaigning

and have been stuck in this room since. ticking off a list of all the plays she has pulled out of rove handbook. is amazing. and the supporters are just like the republican supporters. i am thinking they are being given talking points. i swear the arguments feel the same as when i would talk to republicans. it is getting scary.

i am so opposed to this. i came to the democrats all those years ago, fighting the republicans exactly because of this

i was going to vote for hillary if she won

not a big fan of obama, like i was with kerry

but, i cant vote for hillary if she is dirty politics. she will track it into the wwhitehouse and the smell will linger thru out her term

it will make me a hypocrit, the years i called the republicans and right wing christians on this crap and they allowing and keeping mouth shut

finally, .... i have taught my children thru out this time to be the one to stand up and speak out and not validate, excuse, deny..... insist we are better, demand better. and cannot hand this to my children

so in answer to your question
no, i am not ok with the way hillary clinton is running her campaign. and i am not ok with the democrats that are allowing her to run her campaign this way. they are enablers.

[Adelante]

15. I'm done with Hillary Clinton

Done.

[NashVegas]

16. Welcome to GD: P!

How do you feel about the updated Harry and Louise mailers the Obama campaign sent out?

[AzDar]

31. Thanks. If the mailer was inaccurate, that undoubtedly sucks. I can forgive a

'campaign' slip up; I'm sure it will happen now and again.

It's the playing of the terror card, or worse yet, the promotion of a REPUBLICAN candidate over a Dem that is just beyond the pale.

It seems incredibly selfish....

[Cha]

79. That's hilary.."incredibly selfish"..

I just can't understand how the whole country is not calling for the hilary hook? I mean she's doin' right there in front of the whole world.

[EmilyAnne]

17. Nope. I am not a fan of how she is conducting her campaign. I respect her and I will vote for her

in the GE if she wins. I certainly won't be all that happy about it.

And I loves me the redbull. We were living off of it at the Pittsburgh Obama HQ all last weekend. I'm sure its not exactly healthy.

BTW, would you vote for her in the GE? Hopefully it won't come to that. I hate the idea of rewarding bad behavior and making it a sort of model for elections to come. But I hate the idea of President McCain even more.

[AzDar]

93. After her 'threshold' remarks today, I'm not sure that I could.

The candidate she's become is not one I can get behind, you know?
Kinda sucks, really.:-(

[anigbrowl]

18. No, not OK. I went from '2 strong candidates, yay' to 'anyone hut Hillary' this week

I joined DU because of GD-P; I had been readin git for a while, and was seeing so much negative stuff about Obama that I signed up to post in his defense. And anyone who reads my posts will notice I tend to give sources, links and so on rather than just throw one-liners all the time.

At the start of last month I preferred Obama but was OK with the idea of supporting Hillary. Now the idea of her becoming the nominee horrifies me. I hate to say this, but a lot of the Hillary supporters here sound like Republicans to me in the way they argue and respond to people. I would have extreme difficulty supporting a Hillary candidacy and believe she would do awful damage to the Democratic party if she did manage to get elected.

I'll spare you a listing of reasons why I think that.

[KAZ]

19. I'm barely maintaining my "support the ticket no matter what"..

.. philosophy. What she has done, and continues to do, just floors me. I'm just about done with the "Clintons".

[Cant trust em]

20. So, before the primaries got in gear I was positive on Clinton

then she started to wage war and my opinion fell dramatically. I always root for Democrats, but this particular democrat is making me cringe quite a bit.

[AzDar]

39. That's precisely how I'm feeling right now, although I was an avid Edwards supporter

(still am, I guess) initially.

[still_one]

24. nope, but when she endorsed mccain over Obama, my present to her

will be if she gets the nomination, I will not vote in the Presidential race in the general election

that will be my statement to her campaign

[tinrobot]

26. She's pushing me right into Obama's camp.

I could have lived with either (personally, I liked Edwards) but these days, I'm heavily leaning towards Obama just because I'm so turned off by her tactics.

The McCain thing was the last straw for me.

[surfin]

38. Join me, I was for edwards

I always like those that run and do not take a salary from the government. Have no choice now. I think anyone that runs for another office should resign from their office as they are not serving the people who elected them.

Obama and Clinton both lack a lot of experience. However, Obama will hire it and he can motivate people. Hillary would get only people who would do as the queen said.

Join us and letus end bush(regean)/bush/clinton/bush

[latinolatteliberal]

28. No. But at least it made my choice easier.

I once found it hard to choose between Kucinich, Obama and Clinton. Reality eliminated Dennis but Clinton's behavior during South Carolina and the ghost Florida primary sealed the deal. Obama all the way.

[redqueen]

107. Hi latinolatteliberal!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[latinolatteliberal]

109. Thanks!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Here's a response I gave to another post that's on point . . .

If Hillary was truly interested in party unity, then why, for instance, would she diss Obama in favor of McPain? If all that truly mattered to Hillary is that the next President be a Democrat, she wouldn't give McPain fodder for the GE to use against Obama. I don't see how any reasonable person could disagree with that statement.

And, in the unlikely event Hillary does win the nomination, how could she possibly unite the party, which would require her to pick Obama for VP? How could she do that after dressing Obama down and telling everyone who would listen how unprepared he is to lead and be President? The VP is supposedly "one heart beat away" from the presidency. There's no way in hell Hillary could then turn around and proclaim Obama IS ready by choosing him to be her VP. That choice, being one of the most important decisions a presidential nominee has to make, would make her look pretty foolish and she would lose what little credibility she has left.

Unity is an important goal once the nomination process has been completed. No question about that. But each candidate has the responsibility to conduct their campaign in such a way as to facilitate that unity. In my humble opinion, Hillary has not fulfilled her part of the bargain.

[AzDar]

40. Her strategy seems to be incredibly selfish; as though if she can't have it, no Dem will.

Astonishing.

[Laurab]

32. No, it's not okay.

I had enough of Rovian politics long ago. It would be very, very difficult now for me to ever pull that lever for Hillary Clinton - no matter if it's for her senate race, or if she somehow cheats her way to the nomination. She cares about NOTHING but her own ambition.

She has thoroughly disgusted me, and I can't believe that she still has people on here, who are supposed to be more informed, backing her.

[surfin]

33. She will give McClain her tax returns but not Obama

Amazing. I know she has now seem to say she will release them for dems to see also. I am amazed that this did not bother dems more. I will release them for the repubs but not the dems, how sick.

[David Zephyr]

34. Hillary: The Bully / Victim Candidate.

Throw the kitchen sink with lies in it at a good man and then cry when he finally responds.

[Levgreee]

41. All I can think is she truly is very emotionally invested in needing the presidency

Right now, and for awhile now, she may be going through a personal crisis, and has her judgment skewed and is willing to resort to tactics such as these. She has become so engrossed in the political game, that she has lost perspective.

Her emotional connection to her desire for the presidency has been apparent for awhile.
Here is an article highlighting her behavior towards Obama, when he announced he was thinking about running.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/us/politics/03web-zeleny.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The relationship began to change, according to several Democrats who are friendly to both senators, when Mr. Obama began musing aloud about a presidential bid. The day he opened his exploratory committee, several Senate observers said, he extended his hand and said hello on the Senate floor. She breezed by him, offering a cool stare.

One week later, following the State of the Union address, the two senators found themselves doing a back-to-back interview on CNN. Mr. Obama went first, with Mrs. Clinton pacing a few feet away. Finally, an aide escorted her completely around the rotunda of the Russell Senate Office Building, avoiding walking directly by Mr. Obama."

[mudesi]

42. I warn you, there are Hillary supporters here

And no, I don't know where they came from either.

[1776Forever]

43. You know I am a woman - WOMAN - and I am 61 years old and I just don't understand HRC at all!!!!!!!!

All my life raising 5 sons, 3 of them in the service and 2 served in the Iraq Wars, I have always sacrificed for the good of my family! I kept my family going through terrible poverty and illnesses and I am still helping to support my 40 year-old son who has progressive MS and no wife to help him out. Soooooooooo it is hard for me to understand why this woman who is my age is making so hard on our country, our party and our future! What is she going to gain in prestige and in her and Bill's legacy by staying in a fight she cannot win? I know she can come out swinging and try to break the party apart but why? It is beyond me to understand. Why did she start to play dirty and acted like so many before her have? Just to win? Win what?

I read this on her friendship with McCain and found it very telling and also that Black and Penn work for the same party is also telling to me!

July 29, 2006
2008 May Test Clinton’s Bond With McCain
By ANNE E. KORNBLUT

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/29/washington/29rivals.html?pagewanted=print

WASHINGTON, July 28 — Two summers ago, on a Congressional trip to Estonia, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton astonished her traveling companions by suggesting that the group do what one does in the Baltics: hold a vodka-drinking contest.

Delighted, the leader of the delegation, Senator John McCain, quickly agreed. The after-dinner drinks went so well — memories are a bit hazy on who drank how much — that Mr. McCain, an Arizona Republican, later told people how unexpectedly engaging he found Mrs. Clinton to be. “One of the guys” was the way he described Mrs. Clinton, a New York Democrat, to some Republican colleagues.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. McCain went on to develop an amiable if professionally calculated relationship. They took more official trips together, including to Iraq. They worked together on the Senate Armed Services Committee and on the issue of global warming. They made a joint appearance last year on “Meet the Press,” interacting so congenially that the moderator, Tim Russert, joked about their forming a “fusion ticket.”

(snip)

It was during their joint trip to Iraq in late February 2005 that Mr. McCain and Mrs. Clinton appeared via satellite on “Meet the Press,” an appearance that put their civility on display. When Mr. Russert asked Mr. McCain at the end of the interview whether he thought Mrs. Clinton would make a good president, Mrs. Clinton came to his rescue, saying: “Oh, we can’t hear you, Tim!”

“Yeah, you’re breaking up,” Mr. McCain added, laughing. But then he said: “I happen to be a Republican and would support, obviously, a Republican nominee, but I have no doubt that Senator Clinton would make a good president.”

Asked the same question about him, Mrs. Clinton replied without skipping a beat: “Absolutely.”

.............

Maybe Clinton ought to apply for McCain's VP!

:nopity:

[Window]

44. I'm thoroughly disgusted with Hillary and her Rovian tactics.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. Not acceptable. Period.

[NC_Nurse]

47. She's dead to me.

I was already an Obama supporter, but willing to vote for her if she won the nom.
Now I really don't care to vote for her. She puts herself in the same light as McCain, and frankly,
I don't see much difference between them on war and foreign policy. Two pro-war, fear-mongerers
with lobbyists up their asses and their own noses up Bush's.

[chknltl]

48. Not just no but HELL NO!

I have ranted on and on in GD-P about our two "GREAT" candidates...now I have egg on my face! :grr:

I was trying to ignore my inner alarm bells regarding Senator Clinton. Nafta was my first alarm bell. Her moving to NY to become a NY Senator, an OBVIOUS step in the direction of the White House was my second alarm bell! Her husband pal-ing around with pappy bush was my third alarm bell!! Her votes for bush's war were my fourth and fifth alarm bells!!:grr:!! Knowing that the military industrial complex had to switch from repuke to dem. then seeing them actually go to Senator Clinton was my biggest alarm bell!!! :scared: !!! Even-so, I have been fighting hard to internalize that Senator Clinton would be far better than bush and far better than Senator mCcain.

I have screamed at, chided and embarrassed my fellow DUrs for putting Senator Clinton down! I have gone out of my way to cheer up Senator Clinton's supporters a mere two weeks ago when they were down because it looked like their candidate was about to go under. I have fought with my fellow Duers who I felt were over the top with their antics directed at the supporters of their oppositions candidate.

In the deepest recesses of my heart, I believed that Senator Clinton was not such a bad egg, that she would bring back those sunny carefree days of the Clinton era. Today, I doubt I could mount an argument that I believed that President Hillary Clinton will not drop a Nuke on Tehran then send our troops, OUR BOYS AND GIRLS, in for Iran's oil after she mopped up securing Iraq's oil which btw has recently fallen to the big oil companies. No, I do not believe that Madeline Albright would or could prevent her from doing so. I am SICK of "America THE BULLY". I see no evidence, NONE that Senator Clinton has any intentions to change this.

Senator Clinton's campaign this last week has demonstrated to me that she is not the kind of person I would want in the White House. At this point, it would be hard for me to see any differences between Senator's Clinton and Senators mCcain when it comes to the land-grabs masquerading as the "war on terror" going on in this world.

I no longer offer Senator Clinton ANY more of my support. I am reduced to hope, hope that Senator Obama can overcome the battle he faces with the neo-cons in order to get the nomination. He wasn't my first choice nor my second but today I draw a line in the sand. The Neocons must be stopped and Senator Obama is America's last best chance imo.

[NoBorders]

51. Well said

I've been pretty neutral on her until the last couple of weeks, and the saying I'd hold my nose while voting for her.

Now, I don't I can reward this disgusting crap with my vote.

[NoBorders]

52. Well said

I've been pretty neutral on her until the last couple of weeks, and the saying I'd hold my nose while voting for her.

Now, I don't I can reward this disgusting crap with my vote.

[Hissyspit]

49. I have tried to stay unbiased...

I don't particularly like either of our candidates too much and am not particularly interested in this side of things - the primaries and such. I have tried to even-handedly post useful info on BOTH candidates remaining, and I would love to see the first female president in my lifetime, and was very happy when she became a senator. But I have to say that I am pretty disappointed in the way her campaign has gone. I understand it; I'm not gobsmacked, but I am disappointed.

I thought the '3 a.m.' ad was bad.

[AzDar]

50. UPDATE: After seeing Hillary's *new* 'threshold' footage on "Countdown",

she needs to be removed from the Party. She's NO DEMOCRAT!!!:mad:

WTF is she thinking??

[Perry Logan]

53. Apparently, two-thirds of Democrats are OK with it. Quite a gobsmacker, huh?

[AzDar]

54. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that. And certainly not after recent events...

[bigtree]

57. almost half of those voting in our primaries so far have rejected the Obama politics

of manufactured outrage.

[AzDar]

60. You are okay with her comments today re: Mccain being qualified for the Office, but not Obama?

Really?

[bigtree]

97. it's just politics. Obama supporters are crying like babies.

kinda warms me up inside. You need to toughen up. NOTHING in this election is going to resemble the sweetness and light Obama's selling.

[AzDar]

104. I am not an Obama supporter...but if it makes you feel better (less slimy)

to say that...whatevah.

Thanks for the advice :eyes: , but I'll take sweetness and light over cut-throat treachery every time, if those are my only two choices.

Again, I find it unbelievable that a member of the Democratic Party, no matter which candidate they're behind, is truly OKAY with her 'threshold' comments on 3/6.

Most unfortunate.

[Laelth]

76. I think that's a mistaken misquote from Gallup.

Here's the article: http://www.gallup.com/poll/104800/State-Election-After-Tuesdays-Voting.aspx

The Gallup poll does not say that 2/3 of Democrats want Hillary to stay in the race. It says, specifically:

"it seems safe to assume that rank-and-file Democrats want the race to continue."

And that's based upon polling conducted before it became clear, on March 4, that Hillary's chances of winning were minuscule.

I have heard the claim that "2/3 of democrats want Hillary to stay in" before, and it irked me then because I couldn't believe it.

Now I know why. That's not what Gallup said.

-Laelth

[bigtree]

55. I've taken her side

because it's just politics and Obama and his campaign haven't been the saints (or the victims) they're pretending. But, you go on . . .

[AzDar]

59. From my perspective, it isn't Obama who's the victim, it's the Party.

And, ultimately, the Country.

[bigtree]

98. that's overblown. Obviously you've gotten your feelings hurt but the party and country will be fine

she's actually doing what she needs to do to win the general, if nominated. Take away any hint that it's personal between her and McCain to insulate her from criticism for the inevitable trashing which will (necessarily) come from the rest of us. Standard politics, with Obama left flat-footed and with his supporters' feelings hurt. Looks like a winner to me.

[OzarkDem]

56. Yes, I'm fine with it

its a valid point. Experience and readiness to hold office are important and they need to be discussed.

[chknltl]

71. Yes lets discuss her experience:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/the-curious-myth-of-hilla_b_87613.html

I see nothing there which convinces me that her experience is something to take comfort in. Perhaps an article such as this is unfair, perhaps you could post her legislative record so we all can see it...as a matter of fact a thread which has Senator Obama's legislative record would be equally enlightening if added for comparison.

Well you DID say it needed discussing. I FULLY agree

[comrade snarky]

110. To me this ad does more than say Clinton has better experience

It plays into Republican hands, it frames the issue in their paradigm and gives it validity in the process. You could play the exact same add and in the last few frames show John McCain picking up a phone. According to the same argument put forth by the Clinton campaign he's a better choice.
If I were a normal, undecided voter in the GE (you know... kind of slow) and I see adds like this that play into 911 terrorism fears who am I going to vote for? The ex first lady and senator or the war hero with 20 some years on the armed services comity? Which one will your average undecided voter go for? Who would make that person feel safer? Clinton? I doubt it.
We need to break out of their damn box not sit in it and try to argue we're tougher. That's a fight we'll always loose because we aren't insane. Every time we let them frame the argument we've already lost.
I liked Clinton, I respected her and thought she would make a great president but that's in the past. With this add she and her team have shown me they don't have what it takes to win in the GE. You wont out Rove Carl Rove and even if by some chance you could, I don't want to feel that dirty.

[Bread and Circus]

58. K and R

[yellerpup]

62. Another gobsmacked checking in.

I am totally disgusted with her lies and tactics.

[goldcanyonaz]

63. Reverse Clinton for Obama and that's how I feel in regards to his campaign.

Obama?

No fucking thanks.

[Nine]

80. right on (nt)

[MonkeyFunk]

64. I'm fine

there's nothing Rovian about her phone ad. Geez, it's a standard political ad.

You guys are hysterical.

[Medusa]

65. Some here are probably EMPLOYED by the HRC campaign

so yeah, I'm guessing a few won't have any problem whatsoever with anything she does.

[union_maid]

66. Increasingly shocked and disgusted

If she is the nominee, I'll vote for her. I still think she'd be better than McCain. But I'm really disheartened at the way her campaign is conducting itself.

[AZBlue]

67. I'm so not okay with it, I don't know how to describe it.

Seriously, we've seen some really shitty stuff done by the GOP in the last 7 years, but to have this bullshit laid on us by a supposed Democrat is beyond bearable.

Glad you decided to post! :toast:

[Zuiderelle]

68. GOD, this place sucks during primaries.

[nomorewhopper]

69. it is NOT ok with me either!

My father, who voted for her in the NY Primary is also disgusted by the way that she has conducted herself

[Raine]

70. No...it's NOT OK with me

so much so *if* she got the nomination I don't believe there is anyway in hell I could vote for her. x(

[boppers]

72. The DLC is not the DNC.

I'm not sure we should even let DLC'ers vote or participate in primaries anymore, if this is how they're gonna keep acting.

[Laelth]

73. No, it's not OK.

But there are a few who defend her still.

I admire their passion and loyalty, but the party must come first. A Democrat must win in November. Hillary is no longer helping us achieve that goal. It makes me sad.

:(

-Laelth

[Strelnikov_]

74. "All she has to do now I think is kiss President Bush on the cheek and she will

be just like Joe Lieberman."

Wolfe on Olberman tonight.

I didn't know, until I watched Olberman, about her repeating the 'only brings a speech' statement today.

And, ya know, if she really had any national security experience, former General, former NSA, etc., it would be one thing (small, but something). Thing is, she has NO MORE EXPERIENCE THAN OBAMA. Further, in the temperament they have both displayed during the campaign, I would much rather have Obama in charge of a crises.

No, after what I saw on Olberman tonight, I am done.

I will never vote Republican, and that group now obviously includes Clinton.

[AzDar]

82. Well-said.

:thumbsup:

[Bake]

75. The "3:00 AM" ad was tame compared to what Obama may face in the fall

Tame. Very tame.

Bake

[Laelth]

77. "Republicans do it too" is not an adequate defense.

n/t

-Laelth

[Bake]

83. No, the Pukes don't just "do it too"

They'll do far worse. FAR WORSE.

Bake

[AzDar]

85. That's how you excuse the inexcusable? Wow.

Hillary Clinton, for all intents and purposes, endorsed a REPUBLICAN over the presumptive DEM candidate

and you're okay with that because she's just beating the Repubes to the punch?

Goddamn, that's ugly.:puke:

[Bake]

87. I love how you qualify your lie with "for all intents and purposes"

She never "endorsed" McLame and all your spinning won't change that. As we used to say down south, "you'll go to hell for lyin' just like you will for killin' and stealin'."

Bake

[AzDar]

90. Yesssss. Hell.

If you've actually viewed Hillary's 'threshold' comments from 3/6 and maintain that she is NOT endorsing McCain over Obama, I guess I'll see you there :eyes:

[Laelth]

86. "Republicans do it better" is an even WORSE defense.

OK. I am done with this now. I am still sad about it.

:(

-Laelth



Edit:Laelth--clarity and parallel structure.

[Dogmudgeon]

81. They are about to get creamed.

Thin-skinned prigs should NOT get involved in politics. Evah.

All those Obama supporters wailing that Hillary is running the most vile campaign of all time just haven't seen very much. It's still a slap-fight. I half imagine that Barack and Hill chat on the phone ofter the day is done and laugh themselves hoarse over their supporters' outrage.

Barack Obama's ground troops may be able to run a competent whispering campaign against Hillary Clinton, but John McCain's ground troops will have Obama turned into a cross between Willie Horton and Jane Fonda by October 1st. It may be up to "us Hilbots" to show them how to grow a thick hide -- and how to fight. Hard.

By attacking them? Maybe a little. But if they don't get the message that their tender feelings are getting hurt by feathers and flowers, we might as well tell both Hillary and Obama to concede. I'm thinking of opening a dojo.

--p!

[Nine]

84. She's fighting hard. Obama's the one fighting dirty.

for example...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

"It has never been satisfactorily explained why the pro-Clinton camp would want to racialize the primary and caucus campaign. The argument has been made that Hillary Clinton wanted to attract whites and Hispanics in the primaries and make the case that a black candidate would be unelectable in the general election. But given the actual history of the campaign, that argument makes no sense. Until late in 2007, Hillary Clinton enjoyed the backing of a substantial majority of black voters--as much as 24 percentage points over Obama according to one poll in October--as well as strong support from Hispanics and traditional working-class white Democrats. It appeared, for a time, as if she might well be able to recreate, both in the primaries and the general election, the cross-class and cross-racial alliances that had eluded Democrats for much of the previous forty years. Playing the race card against Obama could only cost her black votes, as well as offend liberal whites who normally turn out in disproportionally large numbers for Democratic caucuses and primaries. Indeed, indulging in racial politics would be a sure-fire way for the Clinton campaign to shatter its own coalition. On the other hand, especially in South Carolina where black voters made up nearly half of the Democratic turnout, and especially following the shocking disappointment in New Hampshire, playing the race card--or, more precisely, the race-baiting card--made eminent sense for the Obama campaign. Doing so would help Obama secure huge black majorities (in states such as Missouri and Virginia as well as in South Carolina and the deep South) and enlarge his activist white base in the university communities and among affluent liberals. And that is precisely what happened.

(snip)

Meanwhile, below the radar, the Obama campaign pushed the race-baiting angle hard, rehearsing and sometimes inventing instances of alleged Clintonian racial insensitivity. A memo prepared by the South Carolina campaign and circulated to supporters rehashed the King-Johnson matter, while it also spliced together statements of Bill Clinton's to make it seem as if he had given a speech that "implied Hillary Clinton is stronger than Nelson Mandela." (The case, with its snippets and ellipses, was absurd on its face.) The memo also claimed, in a charge soon widely repeated, that he had demeaned Obama as "a kid" because he had called Obama's account of his opposition to the war in Iraq a fanciful "fairy tale."And a few reporters, while pushing the Obama campaign's line that black voters had credible concerns about the Clintons' remarks, had begun to notice that the Obama campaign was doing its utmost to fuel the racial flames. "There's no question that there's politics here at work too," said Jonathan Martin of Politico. "It helps campaign to... push these issues into the fore in a place like South Carolina."

When asked about the race-baiting charges, Obama campaign spokeswoman Candice Tolliver roiled the waters: "Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation or is there something bigger behind all of this?" Representative Jesse Jackson Jr., the Obama co-chair, as before, was more direct and inflammatory, claiming that the "cynics" of the Clinton campaign had "resorted to distasteful and condescending language that appeals to our fears rather than our hopes. I sincerely hope that they'll turn away from such reactionary, disparaging rhetoric." The race-baiting card was now fully in play.

(snip)

The Obama campaign has yet to reach bottom in its race-baiter accusations. On February 25, Hillary Clinton planned to deliver a major foreign policy address, an area in which Obama's broad expertise is relatively weak. Clinton was also riding high in the Ohio polls, despite the Obama campaign's false charges about her health plan and support for NAFTA. That same day, the notoriously right-wing, scandal-mongering Drudge Report website ran a photograph of Obama dressed in the traditional clothing of a Somali elder during a tour of Africa, attached to an assertion, without evidence, that the Clinton campaign was "circulating" the picture. The story was silly on its face--there are plenty of photographs of Hillary Clinton and virtually every other major American elected official dressed in the traditional garb of other countries, and Obama's was no different. The alleged "circulation" amounted, on close reading, to what Drudge's dispatch said was an e-mail from one unnamed Clinton "staffer" to another idly wondering what the coverage might have been if the picture had been of Clinton. Possible e-mail chatter about an inoffensive picture as spun by the Drudge Report would not normally be deemed newsworthy, even in these degraded times.

Except by Obama and his campaign, who jumped on the insinuating circumstances as a kind of vindication. The Drudge posting included reaction from the pinnacle of Obama's campaign team. "It's exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world," said Obama's campaign manager David Plouffe, who also described the non-story as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election" and "part of a disturbing pattern." Although he never explicitly spelled out the contours of this pattern, he was clearly alluding to race baiting. Later in the day, Obama himself jumped in, repeating the nasty, slippery charge that the Clinton campaign "was trying to circulate this as a negative" and calling it a political trick of the sort "you start seeing at the end of campaigns."


and http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/obama-goes-harry-and-louise/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

December 24, 2007, 10:00 am
Obama goes Harry and Louise

A friend sends me this:

Have you seen or heard about the radio ad that Obama is running in Iowa about health care?

It has a man and a woman talking, with the man leading off saying that health care mandates “force those who cannot afford health care insurance to buy it, punishing those who don’t fall in line.”

This is what I’ve been complaining about. I was willing to cut Obama slack on the lack of mandates in his plan, even though the economics says they’re necessary; I figured that in practice, if elected, he’d end up doing the right thing.*

I started ramping up the criticism when he started attacking his opponents from the right, making the lack of mandates a principle rather than a compromise — because that was poisoning the well, making it much harder for any future Democratic president to implement a plan that will work.

And whaddya know, now he’s running an ad that bears a striking resemblance to the infamous “Harry and Louise” ads, run by the insurance industry, that helped block health care reform in 1993.

Call it the audacity of cynicism.

* Let me repeat the argument: “The point of a mandate isn’t to dictate how people should live their lives — it’s to prevent some people from gaming the system. Under the Obama plan, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance, then sign up for it if they developed health problems later. This would lead to higher premiums for everyone else. It would reward the irresponsible, while punishing those who did the right thing and bought insurance while they were healthy. ”

[susankh4]

103. I will not forget, soon

the race baiting or the dissing of Universal healthcare.

Mr. Obama has alot of apologizing to do if he is ever going to win my vote.

[Eurobabe]

88. Her campaign is an abomination

Notice, I didn't say an Obamanation. :evilgrin:

[LVjinx]

89. I think she's not aggressive ENOUGH

[susankh4]

92. I'll tell you what I am not OK with

The slandering of the Clintons here on DU.

And the good ole boys network determined to take Hillary out of a very close and contested race.

I am ashamed of my fellow democrats for turning on one of their own, the way they have on Hillary. It makes me seriously question the aims and goals of the party I have supported for 32 years.

[AzDar]

95. The Party hasn't turned on Hillary, she's turned on the Party.

[bigtree]

100. and that trashing of the Clintons by Democrats came way before this political maneuver

now, they have their noses bent out of shape because they presume that she should have been in the toilet some time ago. It's just sour grapes. Hillary Clinton is doing what she needs to do to win the nomination and to win the general election, if nominated.

[0007]

94. John McCain would be preferable to Obama in the White House

That was the bending end for me.

[thoughtcrime1984]

99. Recommended! Hillary's act is like a Foghat concert.

It really bites.

[TexasLady]

101. Meanwhile

here are what all the Republicans look like these days---->>>>>>:rofl:

[GeorgeGist]

102. Since there seems to be a lot of nostalgia going around ...

perhaps it's time for the Obama campaign to resurrect this one hit wonder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_(television_commercial)

[txaslftist]

105. You are dead-on. Hillary's decided if she can't win, no Dem can.

That's not cool with me.

[redqueen]

106. I'm not okay with it. At all. (nt)

[L0oniX]

108. Hillarat is a mill stone around the dems neck. n/t