Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Vatican wary of Kerry

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:24 AM
Original message
Vatican wary of Kerry
Edited on Sun Apr-04-04 12:25 AM by DaveSZ
http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,605436,00.html

A Test of Kerry's Faith
The candidate's policies are at odds with church canon. Will there be a price to pay?
By KAREN TUMULTY AND PERRY BACON JR.



Monday, Apr. 05, 2004
The last time a major political party put forward a Roman Catholic candidate for President, he had to confront bigotry and suspicion that he would be taking orders from Rome. Forty-four years later, the Democrats are poised to nominate another Catholic—another Senator from Massachusetts whose initials happen to be J.F.K.—and this time, the controversy over his religion may develop within the Catholic Church itself. Kerry's positions on some hot-button issues aren't sitting well with members of the church elite. Just listen to a Vatican official, who is an American: "People in Rome are becoming more and more aware that there's a problem with John Kerry, and a potential scandal with his apparent profession of his Catholic faith and some of his stances, particularly abortion."

But it's far from clear whether the greater political problem is Kerry's or the church's. "I don't think it complicates things at all," Kerry told TIME in an interview aboard his campaign plane on Saturday, the first in which he has discussed his faith extensively. "We have a separation of church and state in this country. As John Kennedy said very clearly, I will be a President who happens to be Catholic, not a Catholic President." Still, when Kennedy ran for President in 1960, a candidate could go through an entire campaign without ever having to declare his position on abortion—much less stem cells, cloning or gay marriage. It was before Roe v. Wade, bioethics, school vouchers, gay rights and a host of other social issues became the ideological fault lines that divide the two political parties and also divide some Catholics from their church.

Kerry is a former altar boy who complains when his campaign staff does not leave time in his Sunday schedule for Mass, who takes Communion and describes himself as a "believing and practicing Catholic, married to another believing and practicing Catholic." But just last week he made a rare appearance on the Senate floor to vote against a bill that would make harming a fetus a separate offense during the commission of a crime. The vote put Kerry on the same side as abortion-rights advocates in opposing specific legal rights for the unborn—and against nearly two-thirds of his fellow Senators.

Polls consistently show that Americans prefer their leaders to be religious, and in running to unseat the most openly devout President in recent years, Kerry has at times put a pious cast on his own rhetoric. In a speech at a Mississippi church on March 7, he said Bush does not practice the "compassionate conservatism" he preaches, and quoted James 2: 14, "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?"

-snip-

Kerry and other Catholic politicians have long argued that their religious beliefs need not influence their actions as elected representatives. That position is what provoked New York's Archbishop John Cardinal O'Connor in 1984 to castigate New York Governor Mario Cuomo and Democratic vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro, who are both pro-choice.

If anything, the church is getting tougher. The Vatican issued last year a "doctrinal note" warning Catholic lawmakers that they have a "grave and clear obligation to oppose any law that attacks human life. For them, as for every Catholic, it is impossible to promote such laws or to vote for them." When Kerry campaigned in Missouri in February, St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke publicly warned him "not to present himself for Communion"—an ostracism that Canon Law 915 reserves for "those who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin." Kerry was scheduled to be in St. Louis last Sunday, and told TIME, "I certainly intend to take Communion and continue to go to Mass as a Catholic."

-more-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Big Yawner: "...some of his stances, particularly abortion."
Gee. Maybe JK should change his opinion on choice to appease the spiritual dinosaurs in funny outfits at the Vatican.

BTW, I used to be a Catholic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quetzal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What are they going to do to him?
Ex-communicate him? There are many Catholic politicians that support the Death Penalty and the Stem-Cell Research.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. A friendly reminder to the Vatican that the US is NOT a theocracy
What Kerry does on Sundays is none of my business nor should it be considered when choosing a President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. The death penalty isn't condemned with the same
vehemence as abortion. I'm not Catholic and I'm not altogether familiar with the differences in Church condemnation, but my understanding is that the Church will tolerate Catholics who disagree with it on the death penalty, but won't tolerate those who disagree on abortion. I think this is going to come down to pragmatics.

The US Catholic Church will certainly hurt Kerry to some extent if it excommunicates him. But it will really be hurting itself. After the sex scandals, a lot of US Catholics are already angry at the Church hierarchy. If it is seen to intervene in a US Presidential election, I think you'll really start to see the excrement hitting the ventilator.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. You might hear some flack from Rome, but not from most Catholics
I'm a Catholic and I personally feel abortion is murder, gay sexual interaction is a sin, and lots of the other objections Rome has stated. I do not think my President, or my Government should tell me how to believe. It's a personal responsibility thing I guess. There's that other thing....the death penalty! I think that's murder too, and Rome agrees.

I don't think the Catholic religion is going to be a problem in this election. There are problems in both party platforms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skeptical Democrat Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. XXXXXXBrace yourselfXXXXXX
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Oh who cares?
Who the hell cares what these religiously insane inquisitors think? I sure don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Um
I care. Not because I'm Catholic or anti-choice or because my vote could be swayed by Vatican edicts, but because there are 69,776,000 self-identifying Catholics in the United States and the 2000 election was decided by 537 votes. So yes, even if only 537 Americans care what the Catholic church says on a particular subject, I care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I agree that we should care
Edited on Sun Apr-04-04 01:23 AM by fujiyama
but there really is nothing Kerry or the party can do about what the Vatican thinks.

The fact is, the party's platform will remain pro choice, Kerry will remain against the death penalty, and the majority of Americans (Catholic and non Catholic) will agree that stem cell research holds promises for cures of various diseases (I will never consider anti choice activists "pro life" after their opposition to stem cell research).


If the church excommunicates Kerry, it will have to excommuncate about a quarter to half to maybe half of their members of the church here in the US. Catholics split almost in half in the last election -- Gore getting a little more than Bush. While most will consider abortion to be wrong as the poster above, many don't think that it should be banned.

The Catholic Church (as well as other religions -- I won't single out the Catholic church) needs to understand reality. Maintaining an opinion that abortion is wrong is one thing but the church makes little if any sense when it is against all forms of birth control. I spoke to a friend of mine once -- practicing Catholic, personally against abortion, but he told me, that when the administration starts to ban all aid for family planning abroad, it makes abortions more likely. Many Catholics understand that putting a million restrictions on choice won't help their ultimate cause -- which is preventing the number of abortions taking place. It just makes people resort to other less safe methods, which ultimately harm both the mother and the fetus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. Duh. Rome would rather have a Southern Baptist?
Edited on Sun Apr-04-04 01:30 AM by countmyvote4real
I'm not a Catholic, but how bad is it if Rome would rather have a Protestant? Seems like there’s some truth bending in this report. Then again, maybe Rome thinks they can still win Protestants back. (I guess Rome doesn’t know that Catholics are just a few points below homosexuals on the Religious Right hit list.)

These fundamental religious arguments are just stupid, crass and full of bigotry. All of them. Democracy is the only thing worth dying for. TILT. I don’t want to die. I just want to live and be free to be myself. Why do we have to die or martyr ourselves to prove it? Can’t we negotiate a compromise?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I agree with everyone here
Edited on Sun Apr-04-04 01:23 AM by DaveSZ


Although GWB is trying to create a theocracy in the mold of the Fundamentalist Right, Kerry will not let that happen (nor should he) in regards to his own religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-04 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think the church should just butt out!
It's none of their business what Americans decide.

And what about the hypocrisy of Bush, starting war in Iraq, & being responsible for thousands of deaths?

What about the hate around the world that Bush has caused?

Maybe they should spend more time dealing with their own problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC