The superdelegates will not slap the most loyal Democratic voters in the mouth

[stahbrett]

I don't see how the superdelegates, which are almost all politicians, would be dumb enough (or brave enough, depending on your point of view) to slap the African American voters - no demographic has been more loyal over the years, and to yank away the nomination from a candidate who has won more states, more delegates, and likely more total votes, not to mention huge margins of African American voters, seems like suicide.

[Sadie5]

1. Are you saying that

because Obama is Black that he should get the delegates? Sounds like it.

[stahbrett]

2. You should try reading more carefully

I said this about Obama: "a candidate who has won more states, more delegates, and likely more total votes, not to mention huge margins of African American voters".

Where did I say ANYTHING about Obama being black, or that because he's black he should get the nomination.

My point is that if Obama gets to the convention with more delegates and huge margins of African American voters, it would be a huge insult to tell those voters, the most loyal voters the Democrats have, that a few hundred party bigwigs were going to give the nomination to the candidate with fewer pledged delegates.

[DURHAM D]

3. So you think the SDs should protect the non-Dems that voted in our primaries?

I don't. Fuck 'em.

[stahbrett]

4. Try reading it again, more carefully this time

My opinion is that the superdelegates will NOT give the nomination to Hillary if Obama goes into the convention with more pledged delegates. Notice that I did not say anything about what I think they should do. Superdelegates can vote however they choose to vote - I'm saying that they will not give Hillary the nomination.

[ecstatic]

11. Wow! Don't waste your time clarifying. They don't get it

I don't know if the Shrillbots do it on purpose or if they truly are clueless but your OP was clear enough. :crazy:

[OhioBlue]

6. well then - count Ohio for Obama

b/c Republicans voted in the Primary for Hillary to keep her in so we will keep fighting.

[DURHAM D]

10. Sorry - Repubs voted for Obama in greater numbers in Ohio. eom

[MichiganVote]

5. Really? Well it seems the whole party is willing to gut two states for the sake of a "rule"

about some dates that not even NH stuck with. Huge margins of Democrats in them there states too.

[stahbrett]

13. Michigan and Florida were warned ahead of time, and told to hold new valid elections - they refuse

So far at least - the DNC sets the party rules, not the individual states parties. Break the rule, suffer the consequences, or hold new elections before June 10th. There are tons of Michigan and Florida voters who did not vote, or did not vote as they would have had those elections been valid ones, instead of voided ones. Remember the big push to have Democrats vote for Romney in Michigan?

[Gore1FL]

17. Not to mention

The states and candidates signed off on it.

[MichiganVote]

19. The candidates have nothing to do with the calendar. They did not sign off on anything.

[Gore1FL]

21. So they didn't fill out party paperwork?

what about this:

All the major Democratic candidates have already agreed not to campaign in either Michigan or Florida because the states violated party rules.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22054151/

Or this?

There is a new rule that imposes new sanctions on presidential candidates. If a state, any state, violates the rule on timing/the window, presidential candidates will face sanctions if they campaign in that state.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/highlights_of_t.php


You'd probably be better arguing for a do-over, as the DNC would be open to that.

[MichiganVote]

18. Another uninformed...ok, so here is the deal. Michigan state leaders did agree

to abide by the set calendar until NH changed their date. The the republicans in the state initiated a change in the date that was supported in the legislature in a bi-partisan manner. Can you prove that there were "tons of Michigan and Florida voters" who did not vote because of your version of validity?
No you can't. And even if you could, that would not negate the record turn out that both states had.

The problem is not in the states, its in the rules and in the commission of those rules. had the Democrats sanctioned that half of the delegates would not be seated, as the republican party did with their end, we would not be in this situation. But of course, nobody blames the boobs who said ALL of the Michigan delegates would be dismissed.

Fine. Do it. Hope. Change. Not.

To hold a new primary would require legislative action. The state republicans have their candidate. Think they give a shit about Democrats? Not likely.

[Gore1FL]

22. so ask for a do-over

If you don't like the rules, try to have them chanege. I personally don;t like them. I think itthey are rather silly and out dates.

Nonetheless they are the rules. The candidates ran as Democrats. They inherently signed off on them by doing so.

The DNC appears open for a do-over that does not violate the rules. Take them up on it. Don't blame me for the rules. Don't blame me for FL and MI not following the rules. Direct your tantrums towards your state leaders who thought violating the rules would be a nifty idea.

Let's review:

1> Vent anger at state leaders who violated rules.
2> Demand a do-over election
3> Ask to have future rule changes to eliminate the rules that MI and FL violated.
4> Stop blaming everyone but thse actually responsible.

[MichiganVote]

26. A do-over is not anymore democratic than any other part of this fiasco.

[stahbrett]

23. Can I "prove" that tons of voters did not vote? Sort of...

Look at the turnout at Democratic elections this year compared to the Republican elections. You'll notice a trend - the turnout on the Democratic side has been much larger, often 2-4 times larger. Now look at the Michigan and Florida turnout - the Republicans had a larger turnout. Not definitive, but when you consider that, along with facts such as with the push by some prominent Democratic-friendly forces to turn out the vote for Romney, it makes for a convincing argument.

[MichiganVote]

25. Unrelated sets of facts do not prove your point.

[stahbrett]

24. If a new primary is unlikely, then MI should set up a caucus

Some Clinton-friendly Democrats (Paul Begala for one) who are realizing that this may be the only practical way to give Michigan and Florida voters a DNC-allowed say in the nominating process.

The big thing (for me) is that the original FL and MI elections, which were advertised as meaningless beforehand, should have no bearing on the nomination. So if Obama or Hillary lock up the nomination without them? Then fine, seat the FL and MI delegates. If the nomination is not locked up without them, then they should either split the FL and MI delegates 50/50, or based on the percentage of other delegates that each candidate has (so if Obama has 51% of the total pledged delegates, he'd get 51% of the MI and FL delegates.

[NightWatcher]

7. if the superdelegates overturn the will of the voters, things will burn.

[RiverStone]

9. We would lose the GE

and tragically, we would lose an entire new generation of voters --- it would ba a disaster.

[BalancedGoat]

20. It would be as if...

... the party said to all these young and new voters, "You know how he told you that your voice matters? Well, he lied."

I honestly don't get how anyone could simply not see that this could be really bad for the party.

[sueragingroz]

8. Donna Brazile gave them permission last night

By saying that they would base their decision based on "electability".

If at the end of April, Obama is way down in the national polls and Hillary is on a winning streak, electability will become the deciding factor. Couple that with Clinton offering the VP spot to him thereby giving the supers exactly what they want - a unified ticket, and you've got yourself a Hillary nomination!

[DURHAM D]

12. It was fun to watch Donna squirm last night.

Guess someone advised her she needed to knock off her biased SD bullshit since she serves on the DNC rules committee.

[Barack_America]

14. Lol. A month worth of polls does not undo a decade-plus of Clinton-hatred...

Amongst Independents and white Southern and Midwestern males.

Obama IS the most electable. End of story.

[ecstatic]

15. a blackout is already being discussed by the popular radio talking head

Warren Ballentine. I don't know if people will go for it but we'll see.

[Altair]

16. Especially since the convention is so close to the election ...

not much time for voters to cool down.