If you can't win Ohio, you can't win the Presidency, unless you can.

[mahina]

YES, we can.

[Cha]

1. Good message, Mahina...

I take it you know your history where as mine is void on this bit of interesting factoid. B-)

[tekisui]

3. Hillary's iv void on it too.

[Cha]

11. Facts aren't for hilary...they don't need no

stinkin' facts.

[tekisui]

12. Or math!

[Cha]

16. What was it bush called it in 2000?

"fuzzy math". hilary got fuzzy math.

[LisaL]

40. It ain't that fuzzy.

Both Gore and Kerry would have been elected if they won either OH or FL.
Hillary seems to be more competable in either OH or FL.
So, who is more electable, Hillary or Obama?
You tell me.

[Hepburn]

47. Obama.....

....any other questions?

[Cha]

51. Obama is more electable and will

win the nom.

[mahina]

21. Howzit Zidzi!

Hang in there sister.

[Cha]

52. Howzit, yourself, sistah!

:hug: Good Advice..

[Scurrilous]

2. K & R

:thumbsup:

[bluestateguy]

4. Ohio is probably the only red state she'll pay attention to if she is the nominee

nt

[depakid]

5. Where are you going to make up the difference?

This is exactly this sort of "magical thinking" and vacant sloganeering that gives a lot of people pause....

[mahina]

6. I'm sorry, could you please tell me the delagate count?

Thanks a lot.

[OzarkDem]

9. Its the GE that counts

and Obama can't win it. Support in states with loosely run caucuses doesn't translate into victory in the GE.

[roguevalley]

17. I am sick of people denigrating caucuses. fuck that. He will win

if he gets the vote. I could against McCain so get a better argument.

[mahina]

19. Obama defeats Mccain, Obama +4.2%

McCain beats Hillary, by +0.2% http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[mahina]

27. Hi! Did I mention,

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[depakid]

18. I could care less about the delegate count- it's window dressing I'm talking about November

which is where the prize is.

Seems to me that the campaign would be wise to do some honest appraisals and soul searching, since they lost Ohio to the architect of NAFTA and so called "free" trade in a state that's been hurt more than any other from these policies.

Whatever the campaign was selling, Ohio by in large wasn't buying- and that one should have been a gimme.

[mahina]

23. Oh, Ok.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Might want to check out the CBC, turns out that bullsh*t story about Obama and Nafta was a...lie.

[depakid]

31. Well, what do you expect?

That's the far right's MO.

It's their signature tactic -and it works.

Even I was inclined to have a think about it. Seems to me what that says is that the campaign got blindsided and didn't react effectively.

Republicans will eat the Obama campaign alive in Ohio and elsewhere if they don't find ways to counter shit like that. And believe me- much worse than this is coming....

[woolldog]

8. Read my post here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4909125&mesg_id=4909824

[mahina]

20. ps

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[AndyTiedye]

7. How?

What other "red" state do we have a chance of winning?

We sure aren't going to win anywhere in the South.

The Southwest looked promising, but McCain is a favorite son there.

What else is there?


Edit: I'm talking about the general election, obviously.

[DrFunkenstein]

10. Ohio Is a Late State And The Nominee Is Usually Already Chosen

That hardly makes the state a bellweather.

[anonymous171]

13. Hillary did Obama a good favor in that slight.

She put him in good company, with JFK and FDR, two of the greatest democrats ever.

[ShaneGR]

14. Those wins were before the south shifted to the Republicans....

If you can't carry Ohio, you can't win the Presidency as a Democrat. It's that simple. Not with the current demographics.

As a side note, I think Obama could probably win Ohio if he had the right strategy. I don't understand why Obama supporters seemed determined that their man can't compete there. That's defeatist.

[Vinca]

15. Thank you for your post. nt

[NMMatt]

22. Al Gore won the presidency without Ohio as well -nt

[SKKY]

26. Thank you for posting that! I almost forgot.

[mahina]

29. Right!

Oh man, that was heartbreaking. But now is now. Thanks for the reminder. Aloha.

[LisaL]

35. Hah.

Gore obviously didn't win the presidency.
But even if you are gonna argue he (almost) did, it's because he (almost) won FL.
Where Obama doesn't seem to be very electable either.

[NMMatt]

43. First of all

Obama and McCain are virtually tied in Ohio, as are Clinton and McCain. Second, McCain leads both Obama and Clinton by wide margins in Florida. Florida is unlikely this year. Even Texas looks more likely than Florida, and TX looks like it may actually be close. Finally, Clinton trails McCain in MN, WA, OR and Wisconsin making Ohio irrelevant to her. Finally Obama looks like he can put Colorado, Nevada and Virginia in play as well.

But all this masturbation over Ohio is silly. Ohio is one state that could be important in a close election, but so are many others that Obama won over Clinton.

[Texas Hill Country]

24. 112 years of history says you can't

[mahina]

30. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and the Governor of Montana might

explain why we can, and we will.

Terry McAuliff's strategy of handing over all the red states without a fight went out the window when a real fighter, Howard Dean, came on the scene. Brother plays to win, and it starts with not giving up on half of the country. I'd say it's working pretty well.

Aloha.

[Texas Hill Country]

48. yeah, he did a super job... yeeehaw

he sure knows how to manage the party too...

[mahina]

49. Yeargh.

Not sure what you mean, but by my criteria, he is doing a hell of a job.

[SKKY]

25. Hilary likes facts like Stephen Colber likes facts...

...no math. too much "Truthiness" to it.

[Sparkly]

28. I don't think the fact that he didn't win the primary means he wouldn't win it in the general

Just as each of the Democrats will win the primaries/caucuses in states we likely will NOT win in the general.

Separate things.

[LisaL]

37. Look at OH's map.

Hillary beat him in rural counties, sometimes as much as 30%. Those are the same counties that lost Kerry the election. Now tell me how Obama is going to be electable in OH?

[Sparkly]

38. Isn't it possible those voters want a Democrat more than a Republican this time?

And would, if given the choice between Obama and McCain, vote for Obama?

Edit: In other words, with the choice of Obama and Clinton, they went with Clinton. But the choice of Obama and McCain would be a different choice, wouldn't it?

[LisaL]

39. Not in those rural OH counties, IMO.

Sorry to say it.

[NMMatt]

45. How is Hillary electable in Ohio without African American support?

And all the racist tactics the Clintons have been using coupled with an overturning of the will of the people to prevent the first Black candidate will make her toxic in the general election.

[LisaL]

32. Oh right.

I guess we wait and see, but I don't think Obama is going to be electable without OH.

[redqueen]

33. What a great, positive post!

:applause:

[WinkyDink]

34. Any later than 1960? Edit: Just read about Gore.

[Kukesa]

36. Thanx, mahina; I needed that. n/t

[mahina]

42. My joy.

Eyes on the prize, 100%. Aloha.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. We Are Goimg To Depend On An Event That Hasn't Occurred In Forty Eight Years

That's hope...

I'll give ya that...

[mahina]

44. We're sure not going to let an historical anomaly outweigh the will

of the people.

And for the record, I'm voting for the Democrat, whoever it is. But the hundreds if not thousands of hours of volunteer work? That I give to Barack Obama, and only to him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. I Don't Get It

Yes... You can win the WH without OH but to suggest it can be done because John Kennedy did it forty eight years ago strains credulity...

Here's the 1960 results... You might enjoy them:


http://www.historycentral.com/elections/1960state.html

[mahina]

50. Hope, inspiration, lots of hard work,

and an outstanding candidate with a proven track record of accomplishments, who has taken a very courageous stand against the lobbyist-run status quo, and we have a winner.
All the best to you.