Terry McAuliffe & Gov. Rendell are introducing the possibility of a re-vote in Michigan and Florida

[sabra]

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003719566

NEW YORK Even in the afterglow of a truly super Tuesday, the chief HIllary Clinton backers today have not outlined a plausible scenario for how she actually overcomes the Obama lead and gets enough delegates to win -- except that two of them, Terry McAuliffe and Gov. Ed Rendell, are now introducing the possibility of a re-vote in Michigan and Florida.

If Hillary wins big there, then she has a shot, but the Clinton managers have resisted the idea, claiming, until now, that they already won in those states -- even though they were "illegal" primaries from the party's view. Florida is now discussing shelling out the money to do the vote, and if that happens, Michigan will likely follow.

Now Obama is on the spot. He can plausibly claim that Clinton had agreed to party rules, now wants to break them, so tough luck. But the party can shift course itself and say it's okay if the two states want to spend the money to vote again.

Then Obama looks like he has dissed the voters in those states, who would then take it out on him -- running up the exact big margin she needs to win. That could happen. He may have to agree to a vote and a fair fight -- which would make this a whole new ballgame, with The New Math suddenly not so one-sided in his favor.

[MercutioATC]

1. If the states fund a new primary, Obama will agree to it.

Otherwise, he stands to lose quite a few superdelegates, I believe.

[nonconformist]

17. Michigan can't afford it. nt

[HooptieWagon]

30. neither can Florida.

[TwilightGardener]

2. He's screwed, since the party powers-that-be are going to work the rules in her favor

no matter what.

[TahitiNut]

49. Echoes of 2000. Florida. "Rules" ... and a 'decision' by officeholders.

This has all the earmarks of being as anti-democratic as the fiasco in 2000.

[Major Hogwash]

54. Hey, dude, how's your health? You better be taking care of yourself so you can vote this fall.

We need you here then. Don't overdo this "DU jazz". Okay, TahitiNut? Don't let this crap get to ya.

[TahitiNut]

55. That's why I usually stay out of this forum.

It's where the BATSHIT INSANE people are. :shrug:

[bluestateguy]

3. Will they please stop bitching about Florida and Michigan?

It's done. Over. Water under the bridge. They were warned not to break the rules and they did so anyway.

Now we move on: to Wyoming, Mississippi and Pennsylvania.

[Bake]

12. Yes, move on ... nothing to see here.

Why do you want to disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters if the states are willing to fund a re-vote?

Bake

[bluestateguy]

16. You know, I wish Hillary and her husband had fought this hard for Florida voters' rights in 2000

Like maybe having President Clinton send the Justice Department down to Florida, under the authority of the Voting Rights Act, to take over the Secretary of State's office when it became apparent that Katherine Harris was engineering a coup.

[riskpeace]

22. I wish you would answer the question.

Why are you arguing in favor of disenfranchising me and 1.7 million other Democratic voters?
I do not think a re-vote would have the same turnout as the first vote, but who knows?

[bluestateguy]

27. Because Florida broke the rules.

That's why.

You don't get to vote when you break the rules of the game. If, for example, you are a Republican, you can't vote in Pennsylvania's closed Democratic primary. Their rules. Is that "disenfranchisement"? I suppose it is, but rules are rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. It's Collective Punishment

I didn't do anything to have my vote not count... Disenfranchising me because the Democratic party fucked up makes as much sense as invading Iraq because Al Aqaeda attacked us...

The real reason is Hillary would embarrass him down here...She would beat him by double digits...

[Bake]

47. The VOTERS didn't break any rules.

You would punish THE VOTERS because the Florida legislature fucked up. Oh, a legislature that is majority Repub?

Why are you so afraid of a re-vote? You don't seem to have much confidence in your boy.

Bake

[against all enemies]

57. Are you calling Obama "boy"? That's fucking low.

[Bake]

59. Hillary is my girl. Anything wrong with that?

Get over it.

Bake

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[against all enemies]

66. Suit yourself.

[kwenu]

62. The voters didn't vote to authorize a needless war either but they

put the dummy into office who did and we've had to suffer the consequences. Let's not do it again. Go Obama!!!!

[Bake]

64. What does that have to do with disenfranchising FL and MI voters?

Bake

[AngryAmish]

29. Florida voting device perfected four years ago

[Hepburn]

48. Rules are rules....

...they broke them, they pay the consequences. My son learned that before he went to school. Is there some problem that supposed adults like Hillary and her supporters think this should not apply?

[BzaDem]

20. Wow.

The "water under a bridge" thing is exactly what Scalia said when questioned about Bush vs. Gore.

Glad you feel the same way about Florida.

(In addition to the fact that you are wrong. The rules DO NOT preclude another primary after Feb 5th. They also allow for the credentials comittee to do anything. You just like disenfranchising voters since they don't agree with you.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Florida Has More People Than Mississippi, Wyoming, And Pennsylvania Combined

And disenfranchising the voters of Florida because the party messed up makes as much sense as invading Iraq because Al Qaeda attacked the Trade Center and Pentagon...

[MichiganVote]

39. To be precise...Michigan agreed to the same rules as everyone else until NH changed its mind

Then it made its own move, a move btw, that was initiated by the state republicans and that was ratified in the state legislature on a bi-partisan basis.

[TahitiNut]

52. Thank you. However, let's be even MORE precise ...

... and not use the broad brush of "Michgan" ... since the VOTERS of Michigan had virtually no say in the insider game of power politics.

[MichiganVote]

58. Tis' true, tis' true

[Shakespeare]

51. Oh, would that that were true.

Leaving out those two states will mean vicious litigation that will likely tear the party apart.

Counting the January results isn't a good option. A re-vote is.

And next time, the state parties should probably not defy the national party.

The truly ironic part of this mess? If FL and MI had left their primaries as originally scheduled, they WOULD be in a position to be significant primaries now.

[Bake]

61. The best part is all the Obamatons insisting on the "rules"

They love the rules when they benefit from the rules. Reminds me of the Pukes/freepers getting all righteous about the "rule of law."

Bake

[Shakespeare]

68. Please don't call them that.

I'm not an Obama supporter or a Hillary supporter, but will vote for the nominee (I backed Edwards).

The Obama supporters are right to protest if the delegates from the January elections are counted (Obama's name wasn't even ON the Michigan ballot). But, those voters' voices do need to be heard, and a re-vote is the only fair solution.

[Bake]

71. Perhaps you would prefer Kool=Aid drinkers?

Really.

I've been called every name in the book by those people, simply because I don't support their candidate. Hillbot. Racist. Douchebag.

And this is supposedly a "progressive" website. Whew.

Bake

[Shakespeare]

73. Good god, I'm sick of that shit.

I don't like the name-calling on either side, but when somebody responds directly to me with that ugliness, as you did, yeah, I'm going to bitch about it.

So, no, I don't prefer that. Nor do I prefer the Hillary insults you listed. But thanks for being an asshole about it all the same.

[movonne]

4. This best just not to happen...this will get so frigging dirty, dirty, dirty...we

won't want to vote for either one of them...who wins the repugs and maybe this could be just by design...rove comes to mind...

[bleowheels]

5. Let McAuliffe and Rendell and all of the other Clinton Supporters keep whining...

about this and sooner or later everyone will get tired of their complaining and it will backfire. You can't agree to certain rules and three months later complain that it is not fair.

[yourguide]

6. From FL

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Inching_toward_a_revote.html#comments



Florida Democratic Party chairwoman Karen Thurman has a statement out that seems, at least, warm to the notion of a re-vote there -- something neither campaign has publicly signaled an interest in, but still seems to many (not least sun-starved reporters) the best of bad options.

"It is important to remember that the Democratic nominating process does not end until June 10. The Florida Democratic Party continues to work with our leadership, Sen. Clinton, Sen. Obama and the Democratic National Committee to ensure this state is fully represented at the National Convention.

"We have discussed many things, ranging from the plans for the general election to a potential alternative primary to the process for appealing to the credentials committee of the National Convention to seat our delegates as currently allocated.

"It is important that we are clear about one issue. At this time, no suggested alternative process has been able to meet three specific and important requirements: the full participation from both candidates, a guaranteed commitment of the millions of dollars it will cost to conduct the event and a detailed election plan that would enfranchise all Florida Democrats, including our military service members serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

[SteppingRazor]

38. Here's the full statement:

TALLAHASSEE - Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Karen L. Thurman issued the following statement today on the state of the Democratic nominating process as it relates to Florida:
"The Democratic primary gets more exciting by the day. The incredible enthusiasm for these two phenomenal candidates for President continues to prove that America wants a new direction - not a third Bush term with McCain.

"We thank Governors Crist and Granholm for supporting the effort to have the votes of more than five million Democrats and Republicans from Florida and Michigan recognized. In Florida, more than 1.75 million Democrats voted, and they deserve to be heard.

"Obviously, these primaries are the talk of the political world, and some are even suggesting that Florida hold a run-off election between the top two Democratic primary vote-getters, which happen to be Senators Clinton and Obama. However, this is not a time to panic or jump to any conclusions simply because the Republicans have a nominee.

"It is important to remember that the Democratic nominating process does not end until June 10. The Florida Democratic Party continues to work with our leadership, Sen. Clinton, Sen. Obama and the Democratic National Committee to ensure this state is fully represented at the National Convention.
"We have discussed many things, ranging from the plans for the general election to a potential alternative primary to the process for appealing to the credentials committee of the National Convention to seat our delegates as currently allocated.

"It is important also that we are clear about one issue. At this time, no suggested alternative process has been able to meet three specific and necessary requirements: the full participation from both candidates, a guaranteed commitment of the millions of dollars it will cost to conduct the event and a detailed election plan that would enfranchise all Florida Democrats, including our military service members serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

"The Florida Democratic Party cannot consider any alternative that does not meet these requirements. Indeed, it is very possible that no satisfactory alternative plan will emerge, in which case Florida Democrats will remain committed to seating the delegates allocated by the January 29th primary.
"We continue to move ahead with preparations for an unprecedented coordinated general election campaign. The people of Florida, like most Americans, are eager for change - not more of the same from McCain - and in November, we will make the Democratic nominee the next President of the United States of America."

[yourguide]

41. jesus christ

they are going to push to seat anyway, ah politico why didnt you add the full statement.

[madfloridian]

42. They are going for a brokered convention to prove Hillary's power

as a party leader.

Her campaign does not accept Dean as the party leader.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1883

[madfloridian]

7. Crist is teaming with Hillary's campaign as well. She must stop this.

She is directly defying Dean's authority as party chairman.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2963505

[madfloridian]

9. If the Hillary campaign keeps this up, she will lose.

That is the bottom line.

She is defying the DNC openly. That does not sound good for our party.

[Justitia]

Like the Clintons have EVER cared about our party. It's all about the Clinton Legacy. -eom

[Binka]

8. The Good Doctor Better Be Ready For a Battle!

I'm sick of this shit.

[99th_Monkey]

10. I'd love to see re-votes in FL and MI. It's really the ONLY solution for the Dem Party

to avoid looking like a bunch of confused hopelessly corrupt idiots.

[HockeyMom]

11. I will not vote AGAIN in Florida

Who the hell does this state think they are? They did it once to America, no more.

Transplanted, unfortuantely, New Yorker also not voting for Her Highness AGAIN.

[democrattotheend]

34. So if they have a revote, you'll let Clinton take it by not coming out for Obama?

What kind of sense does that make? If they have a revote we're going to need every vote we can get.

[HockeyMom]

37. Throw out the votes

Florida needs to abide by the rules. This state is FIXED anyway.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. She Can Bring A Thousand Of Her Friends

I would literally bet my home and car she would beat Obama in a primary here...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Alright then.

I'm calling for a re-vote in California and New York.

[madfloridian]

14. Hey, good idea.

.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Hillary Would Win By Larger Margins As Obamamania Has Clearly Crested

It didn't even last as long as streaking, the pet rock, the hula hoop, and the leisure suit...

[Hepburn]

50. Sounds good to me....

....I am in California....and I think we should revote cuz this time Obama will take the state. Why should we follow the rules if the rules are not applied to FL and MI?

[gkhouston]

15. this would raise the magic number to something higher than 2025, wouldn't it?

If they re-voted Michigan and Florida, is there a reasonable chance that either candidate could reach the new magic number without superdelegates? If not, what's the point, other than giving the media something fresh to slobber over?

[Skarbrowe]

35. Nah, it would still come down to superdelegates either way.

Unless something happens to change the way things are going right now with both of them, neither will have the 2025 delegate votes needed so the superdelegates will have to kick in. I don't think it's in this crazy Democratic Party way of picking a candidate that just because and ONLY because you have a slight delegate lead that you automatically win the nomination without the votes of the superdelegates. If Obama was three hundred or more votes ahead of Hillary I would think he should get the nod from the superdelegates. If they get much closer than that and most of one of the candidates (Obama or Hillary's) wins are in much needed and usually won Democratic states in the general election, then the superdelegates have to take this into account. That is why the superdelegates are there. I don't like it. I wish they would come up with a better system totally.

[HooptieWagon]

18. Fla doesn't have the money to fund a revote = $10M

The only way a revote happens is if the DNC funds it, and why should they? Fla was repeatedly warned. A caucus is very doable, but we know what the clintonista's response to that would be...

[Vinca]

19. Are they going to put the other candidates on the ballot?

I honestly think John Edwards would have had a shot in Michigan. It doesn't seem fair at all, but as long as Hillary gets all the delegates, I guess it is.:sarcasm:

[Justitia]

21. Well, they are trying to steal it any way they can, it's the Clinton way! -eom

[Alexander]

23. A DUer mentioned doing a grassroots fundraiser for new primaries.

I think that's an excellent idea. Supporters of both candidates would give money.

[Justitia]

24. Fuck that! Let the state legislatures who screwed their own state pay for it, I'm not.

I already paid for my primary / caucus, AND I followed the rules too.

[HooptieWagon]

28. Problem is

if the state pays for another election, its our tax money. I say take away Fla's SDs, who were the cheerleaders for this fiasco, then we'll talk about a re-do. I'm completely against any plan that allows the pols that instigated this mess getting a seat in Denver.

[Justitia]

32. I agree, your own state has totally screwed you. It's also not fair to the rest of us who play fair

[HooptieWagon]

44. I agree, NO innocent parties should pay

I guess send the bill for a do-over to the individuals who cheerleaded and voted for this mess. If each member of the Fla Leg got a bill for a couple hundred thou, maybe next time they wouldn't be so quick to fuck people over. Making pols accountable - what a concept...

[Onlooker]

31. A revote is the only fair way

Florida and Michigan are two critical swing states, and I think it's extremely unlikely that Clinton would do well enough to wipe out Obama's advantage. I think a revote is better than seating them anyway, and I also think that given Obama's ability to raise money, he might do quite well in both of those states.

[democrattotheend]

33. Hasn't Obama said he is open to a revote?

If the state legislatures will agree to fund it I think this is the best scenario for both candidates.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

36. no way!

[Hepburn]

45. Why don't we just fucking re-do them all so that....

...Hillary can stop whining and pouting? :puke:

[bigdarryl]

46. They both need to stay the fuck out of other states affairs

[mmonk]

53. I think some accomodation should be made. The fact it's put

on Obama is a farce though. Always will be because the states involved were not compelled to go against the rules agreed to.

[kwenu]

65. I agree. Let's divide the delegates of FL and MI 50-50 to each candidate.

So the impact is negligible but will count. That's far more than they deserve.

[mmonk]

67. Sounds good but it's not the voters' fault. I hate to disenfranchise

people (though I think these state parties have effectively done so). The Florida Republican Party really played the democrats down there.

[TheDeathadder]

56. Let's Do It

[madfloridian]

69. Hillary will get her delegates. No matter what. The media is on her side.

She will get her way. Probably just give her the effing delegates.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1883

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1882

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1871

Let her have them. Give them to her gift-wrapped.

[NMMatt]

70. He'll likely win a redo of Michigan

Since it is a cross between Ohio and Wisconsin with significantly higher African American vote than either. Remember, Clinton barely topped 50% of the vote against "Uncommitted." Florida is interesting, but given a campaign in the state, he'd likely make it competative as well.

[PassingFair]

72. He will...

if I have anything to do with it!

Guess I'll have to get to work!