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The Coming Convention War and Beyond: How Much Is It Worth To You?

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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:55 AM
Original message
The Coming Convention War and Beyond: How Much Is It Worth To You?
So here we are. Hillary Clinton has thrown the kitchen sink at Barack Obama, and managed to scrape together two solid wins and one nail-biter.

The damage done to Obama, who as of now is only guilty of having an aide who sought to clarify his position on NAFTA unwittingly get himself into trouble, and having a past relationship with a shady real estate developer whom he has disavowed, so far hasn't been that bad, but it's been enough to make people take a harder look and think twice.

Meanwhile, the delegate math hasn't changed much.

For Hillary Clinton to win the nomination at this point, one of three things needs to happen.

Either Obama has to run afoul of a scandal that makes him completely unacceptable as a nominee, Hillary has to win by margins consistently for the rest of the primary calendar that simply do not seem possible, or Hillary has to convince the superdelegates to overturn the will of the Democratic electorate.

The middle option seems possible only in some combination with the first. Ditto for the third option.

In order to win, Hillary has to continue the scortched earth campaign that won for her tonight. She must continue to attack, to use negative ads that we used to think only Republicans ran, to smear and degrade a man who has overall run a decent campaign, avoided running overtly negative ads, and never once uttered the word Whitewater or any other number of obvious potential baseless smears that could make voters think twice, despite being dared to on numerous occasions. It's a destructive strategy that will damage a rising star in the Party while at the same time ensuring the most contentious Convention since at least 72, and quite possibly ever.

The most likely scenario is that the Clinton campaign continues to smear, continues to fight, gets a few more wins, a couple more losses, maybe even a second shot at Florida and Michigan.

At which point, the Clinton campaign, short of a complete Obama meltdown, will still lack a lead in pledged delegates.

At that time, she will ask the Democratic National Convention to overrule the closely-contested, but ultimate choice of the Democratic voting public.

Judging by how I feel tonight, I can't imagine what Obama supporters will feel like should that happen, and that's exactly what the Clinton campaign is promising.

Her campaign's only other hope is the total meltdown of Obama, if it turns out that Rezko has pictures of him in some kind of compromising position or something, which doesn't seem likely at this point. After the kitchen sink, you'd really think it would have happened by now if it were going to.

On the other hand, if she is ultimately unsuccessful in this strategy, she will have seriously roughed up the eventual nominee and done the dirty work that John McCain's campaign seems as yet unwilling to be a part of. While we know 527 smear attacks are inevitable, McCain and Obama sounds like a reasonable race, much less likely to devolve as this Democratic primary has, than a McCain/Clinton match-up, which promises the mud will fly both ways, with Clinton's pork and McCain's disdain for it, and Hillary's clear willingness to drag her opponent into the mud. It won't be pretty.

In a race about issues, with significant choices regarding the role of the American people in their government, the American people win. That is a race that McCain/Obama might reasonably offer.

In the race promised by the Clinton campaign, if this primary battle is any guide, the best we can hope for is that she will beat John McCain. It will be ugly, and the best we can hope for is the kind of 50-50 situation that welcomed President Bush at the beginning of his term.

It'll be better than it is now, but I don't know if the Party can handle the kind of out-and-out war that would get her there. It could very well fracture the Democratic coalition if the Democratic establishment is seen as judging the first African-American likely nominee unsuitable. That is a dealbreaker to a lot of people.

Worse yet, with a Clinton administration, lobbyists will still run Capitol Hill and we won't get the kind of open government that Obama has pledged to run, and will be able to implement as chief executive. We'll get the person whose last health care proposal was so shrouded in secrecy that our own congressional leaders wouldn't touch it, whose large-amount donor base ensures that her loyalty will be to corporations with deep pockets, not small donors and grassroots organizers.

It's clear that Hillary believes that the end justifies the means.

The question that remains for this party is whether that means is something we want to be a part of, something we want to be associated with. It's not too late.


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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. K and R
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks. n/t
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. k and r
awesome post that sums up the clinton campaign perfectly.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for the kind words.
I was pretty angry earlier, but now I just sorta feel resigned...Hillary believes this is her birthright, and she won't let it go until it is 100% over. It's up to the superdelegates to decide who best represents what we want to be.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Another Kick!
:kick:
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. One more for the morning crowd. n/t
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. She's running against Obama
and he's running against her. He's not pure, either.

This is politics.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I didn't say he was pure.
But he hasn't tried to imply that she might be faking her religion or stated that her resume (which has less time in elected office than his) compares unfavorably to the Republican nominee. That's pretty nasty, and certainly not team-playing. He might be the nominee, and she's giving the Republicans ad quotes. "Even Hillary Clinton isn't 100% sure Obama isn't a Muslim!" "Hillary Clinton: John McCain will bring a lifetime of experience, and Obama will bring a speech he made in 2002."

It's not cool, and nothing Obama has personally done is in that league.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. She never implied he's faking his religion
that's just a made up smear by Clinton haters. She said at least six times she didn't believe he was a Muslim. And she DOES have a good resume - there's nothing wrong with using it.

Ya know what was the real swiftboat smear in this election? Calling the Clintons racists. Swiftboating is not just smearing - it's deliberately lying about your opponent's perceived strong point. Bill Clinton was the most popular president among African Americans in my lifetime, and nobody ever once hinted in his entire career that he was a racist. And the Obama camp went right after him with trumped up lies to destroy him and Hillary among African Americans. That was despicable.

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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. She didn't completely dismiss it as ridiculous. She left wiggle room.
She's a lawyer, married to the guy who parsed the word "is." It matters.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. She said "No. Absolutely not." when asked
that's pretty clear to me.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. And then added "as far as I know."
Kinda kills the goodwill won with the last bit.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Don't care
I honestly think that's one of the stupidest fake outrages I've ever seen here. She said No, and she said so repeatedly.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I respect that.
I do disagree, though. That's the kind of thing that as a fellow Democrat, especially one who has been the target of exactly that same kind of whisper campaign, that she's a lesbian, all the other stuff she had to put up with, I expect more.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe if we remind people why they never liked her
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. But that brings Obama down to her level
and makes Hillary unelectable the same way she's seeking to make Obama unelectable.

We have to leave that to the Republicans if we want to win in November. If we do it to ourselves, we'll only have ourselves to blame for 8 years of McCain, and probably World War III based on his "bomb everything" mentality.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I'm sorry but the only people who didn't like Bill & Hillary were Repugs and the Media...
They left with a 62% approval rating. Chimpy will be lucky to leave with 10%. His father left with low approval ratings....
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. you may not realize this but a large part of the "favorable approval"
rating was in response to the HATE CAMPAIGN put on by the republicans-

Had there not been the lewinsky shit storm, and all the hypocrisy, you might have been surprised how people truly felt about what went down politically during those years.

I know many people who find fault with Bill's policies, but resented the character assassination crafted by a bunch of hypocritical blow-hards.

peace~
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I think the results of Bill's Triangulation weren't seen until after he left...
Nafta/Media Deregulation/Welfare Reform. And, I agree that the attacks had alot of us supporting him...when we should have been more focused on what was going on. I wonder though, if the triangulation was more to do with the Media Onslaught, hate and Gingrich than what he might have done if he had come in with more sustainable support, though.

Peace...back attacha!
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. wrong. I never liked them. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. This race should go to the Convention...then a compromise will be reached where
Clinton/Obama will be the ticket. Repugs aren't going to get much attention as long as our two fine candidates (the only ones we have left standing) are sucking all the media air time...Repugs can't get their licks in because they have to waste money attacking both.

Cliton/Obama....Experience and Energy would be the UNITY PARTY.... They both have a hard core of Dem support who will turn out in November and no 527 SMEARS or tired Fox/Limbaugh attacks will stick to them.

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Sir Jeffrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. This part is exactly why a Clinton "win" is pointless...
"In the race promised by the Clinton campaign, if this primary battle is any guide, the best we can hope for is that she will beat John McCain. It will be ugly, and the best we can hope for is the kind of 50-50 situation that welcomed President Bush at the beginning of his term."

A 50+1 victory for Republicans is great for them, because they march lockstep behind the head of the party. They hold their coalition together and they all pretty much want the same general things.

Democrats need overwhelming numbers to hold together a governing coalition of hundreds of smaller, often competing interests. That is the distinction between what Obama is bringing and what CLinton is bringing. Obama wants a governing coalition to get things done. CLinton wants a winning coalition that gets her into the White House and cripples her ability to govern.

If we have a 50+1 "victory" in November with Clinton, we will not get anything substantial done beyond perhaps a phased withdrawal out of Iraq. We won't have the numbers or the governing philosophy that includes dissenting opinions and voices of criticism.

I can only hope that the party big wigs put an end to this very soon. It would be different if Clinton had *any* realistic chance to win the nomination without thwarting the will of the pledged delegates and the voters. She doesn't. If she wants to help get John McCain elected this fall, she could not be doing anything more for him except possibly endorsing him outright.


Great post


:thumbsup:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Did you see this?
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. Excellent post, thank you.
"The question that remains for this party is whether that means is something we want to be a part of, something we want to be associated with. It's not too late."

The answer for me is simple: no, I want no part of it.

I would like to see more high-profile supporters of Obama speaking out and illuminating, much more strongly than we've seen so far, the legitimate & serious questions about Clinton, her judgement, her 'experience' her tactics and her questionable financial connections.

But Obama does not need to use sleazy tactics. I think he has the truth, integrity and dignity on his side. If he can't win this election, he will win in a future election, because it's a law of nature that darkness gives way to light.
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