Can anyone recall a candidate that was as nasty as Hillary

[NJmaverick]

in the primaries? I can't think of a single Dem and the only one that comes to mind is george bush.

[rurallib]

1. W came immediately to my mind also.

[papau]

12. Obama's constant smears puts him high on my list - indeed claiming Hill is nasty is a smear

[XemaSab]

44. When has Obama said that?

I'd like to see a link.

[NJmaverick]

88. You are not going to see it

The latest LIE from the Hillary people is Obama is a dirty campaigner just like Hillary. Of course, they can't produce any proof or examples, they just use the bush/rove philosphy of tell a lie enough times...

[donheld]

94. Seems to me that everything Hillary is guilty of

she tries to turn around and accuse Barack of doing.

[NJmaverick]

97. Yeah TRIES to

but it only seems to be her supporters that are buying it.

[Emillereid]

126. In psychoanalysis it's called projection. She does appear to have that problem as

well as some others. She's also totally full of herself but as the saying goes - Pride goeth before the fall.

[Liberal Dose]

136. lol yes, and Obama replies "meep meep" to Hillary as she flies by on an ACME missile. My favorite

cartoon so far this season :D

[itcfish]

173. Obama is nasty

thru his surrogates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv7UVCPt6mQ&feature=related

[napi21]

2. The 2000 primary between Bradley & Gore sure wasn't a lovefest! n/t

[Blue_Roses]

54. but it was NOTHING like this

nt

[Bread and Circus]

3. Actually, no. It boggles my mind how "that's just politics" is so ok with some people.

[Lilith Velkor]

199. It *is* just politics.

Cope.

[styersc]

4. Grow up.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[NJmaverick]

6. The other option is put out the flame

If the heat gets too much you can put out the flame.

[styersc]

26. Obama has faced no pressure and has consistently crumbled.

If Hillary and supporters wanted to rake him over the coals Rezko alone is enough to do so. The Senator from Illinois has not demonstrated an abilitiy to stand up to even the least bit of criticism.

I believe it is more then likely that Obama will be the candidate but if this is how he will handle the onslaught from the GOP you had better get used to the idea of President John McCain.

[NJmaverick]

65. That sounds more like and EXCUSE

Than a reasoned response.

[styersc]

133. More experience would allow you to know how wrong you are.

Maturity and experience is important.

[NJmaverick]

135. However experience is WORTHLESS if you don't learn from your mistakes

For example, what good is going through the experience of voting to go to war with Iraq, if you make a mistake and don't learn from it?

[seabeyond]

25. republicans said the same in all the dishonesty, lies and corruption.

grow up. dont like the heat.....

well

it is interesting to see you embrace the new line of dishonesty, lack of ethics and morals so readily.

[NJmaverick]

73. So Hillary being just like a republican is a good thing???

Having all the traits we hate about republicans is good when they are in a Democrat? What happened to practicing what we preach?

[seabeyond]

81. hey, i am right there with you dude/dudette. the hypocrisy that i am

seeing in this is amazing. and interesting. i have stayed out of this room for this reason and i am not a real strong supporter of obama. doesn't float my boat like kerry did. not as enthusiastic. so i have not been paying attention to all this stuff. was just going to vote obama and not get into it. came in yesterday and saw this shit and so reminiscent of the republicans and their campaign with bush and rove. i was surprised to say the least

so now i am hear calling it. not to necessarily support obama. but to call out this bullshit.

[NJmaverick]

85. Great to hear that from a "third party"

Nice to see not just Obama's supporters that are seeing it.

[LeftCoast]

5. OMG!

The spin and hyperventilation continue.

:eyes:

[complain jane]

15. And the funniest part

is that some of them shriek when you mention Obama's inexperience. Meanwhile they're posting histrionic meltdowns every time Hillary opens her mouth, as if they've never even seen a primary season before in their life.

Inexperience and naivety all around.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. Kennedy in 1980. Mondale in 1984. Gore in 1988. Brown in 1992. Gore in 2000. Gephardt in 2004.

People sure have short memories!

[NJmaverick]

11. None of them reached the level of person attacks and

viciousness. Sure they were hard faught campaigns with some mud slinging. What I asked about is the sheer bush/rove scorched earth style campaign.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. In your partial and uninformed opinion

People were in shock from stuff Gore did to Bradley.

Gephradt ran the most negative campaign in Dem party history vs. Dean. (When Hillary runs an ad of Obma morphing into Bin Laden, let me know)

Kennedy in 1980... there's never been anything like it. His campaign was that a sitting Democratic president wasn't fit to hold the office.

Gore started the "Willie Horton" thing vs. Dukakis.

Johnson said JFK had a fatal illness. (Which he did)

Clitnon said Tsongas had a fatal illness (Which he did)

[redqueen]

23. GORE started the Willie Horton thing?

Citation please.

Jesus...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. Yes, during a primary debate in the 1988 primaries.

Of course Gore was not as bluntly racial about it as Bush went on to be. but the prison furlough issue was a Gore campaign OP research find.

(Some RW types have over-stated the case, trying to blame Gore for the awful Bush Willie Horton ad, and that's bogus, but there is no doubt that Gore did raise the furlough story before any Republican did.)

[redqueen]

34. Nah, I'll take you at your word.

And I'll make sure to disabuse anyone of the notion that that came from repukes, every time I see that extremely widely-held misconception repeated.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

53. The pukes used it in an overtly racist way, and desrve all the blame. Gore did not.

Gore did not focus on the race of Willie Horton or anyone else.

But he did start the furlough story, even though it was a program started by Dukakis' Republican predecessor.

It was a bum rap from Gore, but not an overtly racist bum-rap the way it was when Bush picked up the same theme.

[redqueen]

70. Gore didn't even mention Willie Horton, it seems. (nt)

[leftynyc]

99. There was a difference

When attacked by the dem, it was on the furlough question.

When the pukes got involved, it was overt racism. So while Gore may have introduced the furlough question, there was nothing racial in his argument.

[redqueen]

119. Exactly... so implying that Gore was being as nasty as Clinton is... is... well...

:think:

[leftynyc]

139. How about Kennedy

versus Carter? Does that qualify?

[redqueen]

144. I'd have to see the kind of poo they were flinging.

The stuff from the Clinton camp lately is pretty crazy.

[leftynyc]

148. The fact Kennedy was

challenging an incumbent president and stayed until the convention doesn't do it for you? I'm sure you think he was throwing cotton balls at Carter.

[redqueen]

159. Is the topic of this thread not nastiness?

Just because he was challenging an incumbent and stayed in it doesn't necessarily mean he was throwing poo.

And what makes you say you're sure I think he was throwing cotton balls at Carter? Because I refuse to make an assumption, you'll make another assumption about me? What kind of sense does that make?

:wtf:

[leftynyc]

160. Then do some research

It's really not that hard if you're really concerned about the tone of this election versus one's in the past. I suspect you're just looking for another talking point.

[redqueen]

161. That's funny.

You made the assertion, you back it up.

[leftynyc]

179. Here is what wikipedia has

to say about that convention (and as long as Hillary doesn't stay in until the convention, she's got nothing on Ted Kennedy).

Carter’s approval ratings jumped in the 60-percent range in some polls, due to a "rally ‘round the flag" effect<6> and an appreciation of Carter's calm handling of the crisis. Kennedy was suddenly left far behind. Carter beat Kennedy decisively in Iowa and New Hampshire. Carter decisively defeated Kennedy everywhere except Massachusetts, until impatience began to build with the President’s strategy on Iran. When the primaries in New York and Connecticut came around, it was Kennedy who won.

Carter was still able to maintain a substantial lead even after Kennedy swept the last batch of primaries in June. Despite this, Kennedy refused to drop out, and the 1980 Democratic National Convention was one of the nastiest on record. On the penultimate day, Kennedy conceded the nomination and called for a more liberal party platform in what many saw as the best speech of his career. On the platform on the final day, Kennedy for the most part ignored Carter.

But you continue to believe the illusion that this is the nastiest ever. It suits you.

[redqueen]

183. It suits me? What the hell does that even mean?

Do you even know what the OP means by "nasty"?

[karynnj]

184. I remember it as issue based and his feeling that Carter could not win

given where the country was. I always thought of it in the same light as McCarthy's run. 1980 was weird as John Anderson in many ways was more liberal than Carter, even though he was a Republican. I liked a lot of what he said - and it was only because I thought the real choice was Carter and Reagan, who were poles apart - that I voted for Carter.

It was slightly strange when he wouldn't join hands - which suggests that maybe Carter attacked him.

[bvar22]

169. Kinda like the way McCain is going to go on ahead with Hillary's

..."more experienced" endorsement in the GE.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Citation

The first person to mention the Massachusetts furlough program in the 1988 presidential campaign was Al Gore. During a debate at the Felt Forum sponsored by the New York Daily News, Gore took issue with the furlough program. He did not, however, mention Horton or any other specific criminal by name. He asked it in the form of a rhetorical question, asking Dukakis whether he would extend Massachusetts-style furloughs to the federal level. Dukakis' retort was, "The difference between you and me is that I have run a criminal justice system. You haven't." But Dukakis also quickly noted that the furlough program had been changed. (This can be found in Jack Germond and Jules Witcover's book on the 1988 presidential campaign, "Whose Broad Stripes And Bright Stars?", on page 315).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton

[redqueen]

62. Ah, so I was misinformed just now.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. That's OK

I'm a political junkie...

[SoxFan]

204. Actually, this is true

The Lawrence (MA) Eagle-Tribune, which has a large NH circulation, ran a Pulitzer Prize winning series on the Mass furlough system back in 1987. Gore's staff picked it up and ran with it. Remember, Gore was running as the "conservative" Democrat in 1988, the stand-in for Sam Nunn and Chuck Robb.

[redqueen]

219. Citation please.

The evidence seems to support Gore mentioning the furlough program... not race-baiting. (And therefore, not nasty.)

[NJmaverick]

31. Can you give facts or is "uninformed opinion" the closest

thing to a "fact" to support your assertions?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Let's Start Here

As he battled Lyndon B. Johnson for the Democratic presidential nomination, some of Johnson’s allies made reference to Kennedy’s Addison’s disease and used it as an argument against his nomination. India Edwards, a southern Democratic party leader, told a group of reporters that “Kennedy was so sick from Addison’s disease that he looked like a spavined hunchback.” She also asserted that doctors had told her that were it not for cortisone, Kennedy would be dead. Another prominent Johnson ally, campaign manager John Connolly , charged that, if nominated and elected, Kennedy “couldn’t serve out the term” since “he was going to die.”


http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/JFK+and+Addisons+Disease+Page+2.htm

[Lilith Velkor]

200. LBJ was as nasty as they come.

Remember the "make him deny he's a pig fucker" strategy?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

67. Citing the names and dates was meant to jar your memory

I cannot document the history of negative campaigning, but if you can find a Dean supporter from Iowa 2004, they can fill you in on Gerhardt's ads.

And Ted Kennedy seeking to depose a sitting Democratic President kind of speaks for itself, in terms of "tearing the party apart" Right or wrong... there are arguments on both sides on the Kennedy Carter thing, but it was a lot more divisive than anything we are seeing today.

For that matter, since everyone recognizes that Hillary's 3AM ad is derived from Mondale's Red Phone ad. Compare the two. Mondale's is more negative. It doesn't just say "I'd do a good job." It explicitly characterizes the other guy. (un-named)

So the theme and message are the same, but the Mondale ad is more negative than the Clinton ad, which serves as one good example of the relative tone of the two campaigns--1984 vs. 2008.

This is a nasty campaign, but not unprecedented in any way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. In the 1984 Campaign....

Frank Mankiewicz said of Gary Hart who was running on a campaign of "New Ideas" that the only thing new about him was his name which he changed from Hartpence and his age which he fudged a year on...

In the 1960 campaign the Kennedy brothers, God bless them, made political hay out of the fact that HHH didn't serve in WW11...

These guys are politicians, not cardboard saints...

[redqueen]

177. Did they say the republican opponent was more qualified?

Did they equivocate about their religion? (Actually that would not be so poisonous then... they would have had to equivocate about their status as a communist at that time.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

188. In The 60 Campaign The Kennedy Brothers Implied HHH Was "Yella" For Not Serving In WW 2

And then Johnson and his boys said Kennedy wasn't healthy enough to serve out his term...

I think that's worse...

[redqueen]

189. The "Yella" thing is horrid...

but I disagree that either of those is anywhere near as bad as praising the republican opponent over your own fellow dem.

[pnwmom]

129. I disagree. I think it's just easier to see the past through rose colored

glasses. The Democrats are KNOWN for their tough fought primaries.

[Medusa]

8. Nixon.

But I'm pretty sure that even he'd be freaked out at some of the shit that has gone done in this primary with the Clintonistas.

[barb162]

9. Yeah, Obama is nastier.

[dysfunctional press]

77. how so? surely you have a multitude of examples to choose from...

why not point a couple out...? :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

89. Not going to happen

They just say stuff, that isn't true. If you ask for specifics or examples they have NONE.

[barb162]

102. Oh, try his mischaracteriztion that she was pro-war

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=6303

Obama's admitted his own position was not far from that of Bush.

Try his lying about her health plan in his leaflets.

He's lied about her views on NAFTA
weblogs.newsday.com — Barack Obama has been dishonestly dropping a mail-piece (left) that repeats a charge he has made several other times during the campaign -- that "Hillary Clinton believed NAFTA was 'a boon' to the economy." Newsday admits it did NOT have a direct quote saying NAFTA was a "boon" to the economy. snip

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/NAFTA_Obama_LIES_about_Clinton_s_statements

[goletian]

117. and george bush never said iraq was an "imminent" threat

republican politricks 101

[complain jane]

10. Can you even list all these "nasty" things she's done?

[NJmaverick]

16. That's easy- although there are so many

That you will forgive me if I miss some.

She endorsed McCain over Obama

She tried to scare the voters into voting for her ALA the classic repuke trick

She photo shopped Obama to make him look darker

She circulated a picture of Obama in African garb

She didn't dispute the false claim that Obama is a Muslim

She actually accused Obama of carrying out a rove style campaign of lies and viscious deception

Early in the campaign she sent out mailers falsely accussing Obama of being weak on a woman's right to chose.

One of her campaign workers sent out emails claiming he was a Muslim

[LostinVA]

19. Now try posting facts

[NJmaverick]

28. Still facts, even if you are in denial

That's the said thing about Hillary's supporters, they turn a blind eye or are in complete denial over her many misdeeds.

[LostinVA]

40. They're not facts -- but you can keep lying about that

I will pray for you.

:hug:

[NJmaverick]

48. I suggest you pray for yourself

You NEED them far more than I do.

[LostinVA]

52. I guess that DU joke went over your head

[Lucinda]

35. LOL

:)

[complain jane]

56. What? You're full of crap!

She DID dispute the claim of Obama being a Muslim! What, she didn't do it in pre-ordained terminology issued from the pro-Obama camp? Are you serious?

She didn't "endorse" McCain, she pointed out the FACT that she and McCain have experience and Obama does not.

She "circulated" a pic of Obama in African garb? Do you have proof of this?

Yes she accused Obama of Rovian-style campaign tactics because his campaign sent out something that lied about her.

Do you actually have anything "nasty" she's done?

[LeftCoast]

96. I knew it. Not a single fact. Just 'truthiness'.

[BigDDem]

121. Just for fun....

She photo shopped Obama to make him look darker
She circulated a picture of Obama in African garb


Proof??????????????????

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Can anyone recall as candidate as smug as Obama who got

so much love from the media, which smeared his opponents?

Yes! George W. Bush IS the correct answer.

[NJmaverick]

21. Hillary

Everyone forgets she was the Dems golden child, until the voters said otherwise.

[Lerkfish]

14. well, not really. I'm 49, so I've seen a lot of primaries

there may have been but I don't recall it. I remember a lot of "my esteemed opponent" type of thing, and comparing policies, etc.

But I think we can have Rove et al, to thank for that. I think the (false) paradigm is that negative wins big. I think the clinton campaign should realize that the country, at least democrats, are trying to move forward from that.

but realize that Mark Penn, and her other advisors are REPUBLICAN style advisors, so they are running a campaign a republican would run against a democrat. I think and hope that is a serious miscalculation. I would hate it if that sort of mudslinging were effective.

[shirlden]

18. Y'all must be too young

to remember Daddy Bush and Lee Atwater. The first and still champions of nasty down and dirty politics. I thought over all the Big O and Hill have been quite civil.

[redqueen]

27. I think they were asking about DEMS - (from the OP: "a single Dem")

Everyone knows repukes are fucking nasty (McCain's black baby comes to mind)... that's not news to anyone.

[Thirtieschild]

227. Karl Rove learned at the Lee Atwater School of Dirty Doings

My first presidential vote was 1956 and have never seen anything as dirty as Willie Horton. The Bush family wins hands down when it comes to down and dirty. Like father, like son.

[IndianaJones]

20. Joe Momma comes to mind. nt.

[LostinVA]

22. Obama

[DemzRock]

Wow! A lot of you must be really new to this. Negative campaigning has been around since...

what?

The beginning of campaigning?

================================================================================================
Here is a book that thinks...

"70 Wallace/Brewer Race "Most Negative Campaign of All Time"

However, Swint explained, it was a clear-cut choice for the top slot after research revealed one glaring detail that was actually an amalgam of glaring details.

"It has so many of the factors that other campaigns have one of, but this one had all of them," Swint said. "It had the racial comments, the betrayal, the dirty tricks on the wives, the name-calling. It had everything.

"It could have very well taken place in 1870 instead of 1970."

http://alelections.blogspot.com/2006/02/70-wallacebrewer-race-most-negative.html

=================================================================================================

In fact, it was negative ads that helped derail Hillary's health care plan in the early 90's.

1993 "Harry and Louise" ads attacking Pres. Bill Clinton's health-care reform proposals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_campaign

[NJmaverick]

38. I said Primaries

1993 was not the primaries.

[DemzRock]

24. Wow! A lot of you must be really new to this. Negative campaigning has been around since...

what?

The beginning of campaigning?

================================================================================================
Here is a book that thinks...

"70 Wallace/Brewer Race "Most Negative Campaign of All Time"

However, Swint explained, it was a clear-cut choice for the top slot after research revealed one glaring detail that was actually an amalgam of glaring details.

"It has so many of the factors that other campaigns have one of, but this one had all of them," Swint said. "It had the racial comments, the betrayal, the dirty tricks on the wives, the name-calling. It had everything.

"It could have very well taken place in 1870 instead of 1970."

http://alelections.blogspot.com/2006/02/70-wallacebrewer-race-most-negative.html

=================================================================================================

In fact, it was negative ads that helped derail Hillary's health care plan in the early 90's.

1993 "Harry and Louise" ads attacking Pres. Bill Clinton's health-care reform proposals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_campaign

[sniffa]

32. Eating the baby was a bit much though

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4876009&mesg_id=4876009

[susankh4]

30. You weren't around

during the JFK/LBJ primary. Were ya?

[DemzRock]

74. The JFK/LBJ primary? Aha!.... You DO know a lot of people think LBJ...

was involved in the JFK assassination, right?

His mistress reported LBJ made some suspicious statements the night before the event.

And E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession supposedly pointed to LBJ.

But who knows?

[susankh4]

84. Yep. I know it.

And it's pure fodder for my thesis.... that Barack and Hill will end up on the same ticket.

The "LBJ killed JFK" theory was pretty well debunked, BTW. But it provides pretty good evidence of how contentious a race that was.

Let 'em duke it out I say.... it keeps the troops on the ground. As long as they end up on the same ticket... it'll work in our favor.

[DemzRock]

90. How was it debunked...?

E. Howard Hunt just recently confessed on his deathbed to being a "benchwarmer" on the thing, and pointed to LBJ as the instigator for it. The confession was confusing, however, but it still looks like pretty good evidence.

[CyberPieHole]

33. Obama's campaign of race baiting and lies is the nastiest in the history of American politics.

[NJmaverick]

45. Obama was the one that said

"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."?

You Hillary people really are out of touch with reality.

[BigDDem]

134. "Obama ran a good campaign here"

Man, that's brutal!!!!!!

:rofl:

[susankh4]

55. For sure!

I don't think I can ever really forgive him for it.

[backscatter712]

36. Hillary's probably the nastiest I've seen on the Democratic side.

Of course, Dubya and Rove have the science of mean down to a fine art.

Still, I'm sorry, but Obama's a hell of a lot more civilized than Clinton.

The doctoring of Obama's image in her attack ads to make him look more like a "scary black man" really takes sleaze to a whole new level.

[NJmaverick]

46. yeah bush Swift boated McCain just for fun in 2000

The Clinton's watched and learned though

[leftynyc]

103. Then you don't remember

Carter vs Kennedy. Ted Kennedy (yes, that saint that endorsed Obama to such fanfare), ran a very nasty primary against A SITTING DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. It really wasn't that long ago but everyone is acting shocked, just shocked that there are politics being played in a primary.

[krabigirl]

37. Obama's supporters.

[NJmaverick]

47. Obama supporters are running for office?

You Hillary people are really messed up.

[complain jane]

60. Obama's supporters is right. Oh wait you get a pass because you're not actually running?

LOL

[NJmaverick]

63. You give your candidate a pass

Why do you hold Obama's supporters to a higher standard than the person running for President????

[complain jane]

109. Let me know when his supporters can meet a standard to begin with,

first of all.

Second, if you're referring to my other posts on HRC, please actually read them before commenting on them. That way you'll know I don't *have* a candidate.

[NJmaverick]

118. Yeah your posts seem reall fair and balanced

Too bad we dont' have a good eye rolling emoticon.

[complain jane]

209. They wouldn't seem it to you, if you were one of the group I was talking about in them.

I stand behind them.

[NJSecularist]

39. Hillary's campaign is nothing compared to both Bushes

With Atwater and Rove.

But it's getting closer and closer by the day.

[NJmaverick]

42. Similar would be the word I would use

They run similar types of campaigns.

[blm]

141. Bush WANTED to lose in 1992 - he expected to be impeached after BCCI report release Dec 1992.

So, Jackson Stephens had all their culpable BCCI asses covered by Clinton whose political career he groomed and whose primary campaign he underwrote.

[BigDDem]

41. Yes I can...

Barack Obama

[NJmaverick]

50. Examples- or is this just another Hillary camp lie???

Please list some specific examples.

[BigDDem]

64. Let me check with

"Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” and I'll get back with ya

[NJmaverick]

68. Didn't expect and proof or facts

and I wasn't dissappointed.

[BigDDem]

82. Oh my bad, forgot your blinders...

carry on!

[NJmaverick]

92. Still WAITING for those examples

childish insults aside, you have been called out on your lie. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, but it's not very likely.

[BigDDem]

110. Are you under the impression that I just made up the

D-Punjab thing?

Try to keep up friend.

[NJmaverick]

116. YES- Please provide an EXACT Obama quote

not just your interpretation.

[BigDDem]

123. Oh, you mean "EXACT" quotes like the following:

She endorsed McCain over Obama
She tried to scare the voters into voting for her ALA the classic repuke trick
She photo shopped Obama to make him look darker
She circulated a picture of Obama in African garb
She didn't dispute the false claim that Obama is a Muslim
She actually accused Obama of carrying out a rove style campaign of lies and viscious deception
Early in the campaign she sent out mailers falsely accussing Obama of being weak on a woman's right to chose.
One of her campaign workers sent out emails claiming he was a Muslim


:rofl:

Thanks for all those "quotes" dude!!!

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

132. Like these, actually

"I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know that Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002. "

[BigDDem]

137. Truth hurts sometimes!

"STILL WAITING" on the proof of the following:

She photo shopped Obama to make him look darker
She circulated a picture of Obama in African garb

[Ino]

122. Are you aware...

that Hillary called HERSELF "the Senator from Punjab"?

http://www.sikhcouncilusa.org/article.aspx?article=evtdinner
Washington May 18th - “I am delighted to be the Senator from Punjab as well as from New York” said Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and the former first lady of the United States of America.

[leftynyc]

104. Do you need all caps to get the message?

CLINTON (D-PUNJAB). Or is that just ducky with you?

[BigDDem]

113. Saint BO can do no wrong but...

"fairytale" is a vicious political slam.

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

152. More like St Hillary

She keeps doing rotten things, and people like you keep defending her. Turning a blind eye to what she has done.

[NJmaverick]

154. Please provide the exact quote

It shouldn't be hard if it's actually TRUE.

[leftynyc]

158. Read it and weep at the link

I was just going to copy and paste but didn't want another asshole Sen Obama supporter accusing me of lying.

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/06/sen_clinton_dpunjab.html

[NJmaverick]

162. So Obama never said it

So please provide something he ACTUALLY said.

[leftynyc]

164. Keep moving those goalposts

Typical. It came from his campaign but the saint had no part of it I'm sure.

[NJmaverick]

186. I ask for just ONE nasty quote from Obama

Surely for someone you CLAIM is the nastiest of campaigners that should be an easy challenge.

[leftynyc]

196. Same yourself some embarassment

I never made any such claim and you're confusing me with someone else.

I was pointing out that neither of them qualify as the worst as I remember was Carter v Kennedy when saint teddy stayed in until the convention.

[VolcanoJen]

49. Dubya. Other than that dickweed, she takes the cake.

It's depressing.

[meow mix]

51. I cant. She has earned the title of Dirtiest.

shes so dirty its ugly

[Az_lefty]

57. Plenty of publicans, but no Dem's come to mind...

she's just nasty in her attacks. I am absolutely done with her.

[Catherina]

59. Same here. Bush 43 n/t

[zulchzulu]

61. Attacking an opponent's kindergarten paper is absolutely unprecedented

That wasn't even the lowest of attacks...it did make it for the political history books.

[VolcanoJen]

Wasn't "Shame on You, Barack Obama" also unprecedented?

I can't recall a primary candidate pulling out a "Shame on you," against a candidate from the same party.

[NJmaverick]

153. Yeah pretty much

she was counting on people not questioning the one doing the "shame on you stunt". It's right out of the Rove play book

[Acadia Blue]

69. All the bush family candidates.

[indimuse]

71. yes!

Obama!

[NJmaverick]

75. Specifics? Or is this just a Hillary camp lie?

That's what I would like, SPECIFICS and FACTS. Something meaningful

[Zachstar]

72. I can't..

Republican or Democrat.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

76. Dick "Kamikaze" Gephardt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. She Hasn't Even Come Close To Being Nasty.

I'm amazed that all of you think that campaigns are supposed to be some sort of orgy love fest. Wake up. This is politics. Furthermore, Obama has been every single bit as dirty as she has, he's just done it a bit more smoothly. If he was in the position she was in, he'd be far more aggressively vocal as well. This whole Hillary demonizing is beyond silly and misguided.

[southlandshari]

79. All I know is I can't recall a more unnecessarily divisive and nasty OP

on a day when we ought to be adult enough to remember the childhood lessons of good sportsmanship.

Particularly among friends who share common goals.


Sheesh.


:yoiks:

[NJmaverick]

86. I remember good sportsmanship

That's why Hillary's actions are so disturbing.

[southlandshari]

98. Good sportsmanship

comes from within. That's what I teach my eight-year-old, anyway.

Make sure you are treating others with respect and kindness in all situations. Be gracious in victory and in defeat.

You can't control what others do, so there is no sense in trying to measure their efforts.

Just do what is right as you know it.

Creating hoopla over the actions of others is a waste of time and rarely, if ever, has a positive effect on them.

My two pennies.

[NJmaverick]

100. In some things that is true

However when your party is picking someone to REPRESENT YOU, it's important that they act in accordance with your values.

[southlandshari]

107. I agree with you

I want someone who will act in accordance with my values.

Which is why I support Barack Obama.

And also why I am lost as to how you think this topic and the tone of this thread you have posted is a good reflection of the values Obama - who we both support - has worked tirelessly to emulate this campaign season.

It seems unnecessary, unkind and yes, unsportsmanlike, to me. And I'd be willing to bet that if asked, Barack Obama would agree with me on this one.

Why post this thread?

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

115. Sometimes you have to call people on what they are doing

There are times to stay silent and there are times to speak up. When the party and eventually the nation will be hurt, it's time to speak up.

[southlandshari]

120. What good is speaking up...

if your audience isn't listening?

:shrug:

Again, I'm not trying to be difficult, this is really what I believe.

If you get an email from someone who you believe is a lost cause, why respond at all?

What is the point?

[paulk]

80. Obama?

Or at least his supporters, with what has to be his tacit approval.

There are two sides to every coin, you know, and while the latest faux outrage may get your rock's off, not everyone is as single minded as you.

[ecstatic]

83. As far as I know... no nt

[Milo_Bloom]

87. Gephart in 2004

He went on a suicide mission against Dean in Iowa.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. Not really.

I also haven't seen one commit so many gaffes and remain "viable." Just one of Clinton's fuck ups could have killed better candidacies then hers.

[leftynyc]

95. 1980 Carter vs Kennedy (eom)

[DemGa]

105. That's right -- Kennedy split the Dems and gave us Reagan

now he's trying his best to hoist Obama on us all. Ran against a sitting Dem President to the convention. This is the backstabbing wing of the Dem Party.

[leftynyc]

106. But don't expect Sen. Obama's

supporters to acknowledge it. It's like it's their first campaign and they have never seen politics before. I've never seen such naive people before.

[DemGa]

108. True. I doubt most are even aware of Kennedy's treachery

Gave us Reagan, the Bushes -- I've also no doubt those "Reagan Democrats" were disaffected Kennedy supporters from 1980. The man should have been expunged from the Dem Party.

How fitting he is now one of BO's biggest advocates.

[leftynyc]

112. I suspect you're right

And even after the truth being spelled out, they'll still yell that Hillary is running the nastiest campaign EVER. Because it's all about them - that's the conclusion I've come to about Sen. Obama supporters.

[NJmaverick]

114. What a crock

I'm 44 been dealing with campaigns for over 2 decades. Still Hillary's people will GRASP and anything, to justify her behavior.

[leftynyc]

124. If you're 44 and have worked on

campaigns, surely you remember 1980 when Ted Kennedy ran AGAINST AN INCUMBENT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT and stayed in until just before the convention. And yet, you'll stand by and let people state that Hillary is the WORST EVER. It's dishonest and people that have been around as long and both of us (I'm 47) shouldn't let them lie like that. They're calling her a TRAITOR for heavens sake.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

128. Ted Kennedy Stayed In Until The Convention

He then tried to have delegates released from their pledge and lost...In fact, he arguably never conceded...

[leftynyc]

138. Thank you

I had forgotten that. Meanwhile, everyone forgets that episode like this is the first election that was ever contested. And Teddy is a g-d now that he's endorsed Obama.

[redqueen]

180. That is not the same thing as throwing poisonous barbs.

This thread is about nastiness...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

191. I Already Cited Some Nasty Campaigns

In the 1960 primaries the Kennedy brothers suggesting HHH was a coward for not serving in WW ll and then the Johnson boys saying Kennedy was too ill to finish his term...

In the 1984 campaign Mondale's campaign spokesman said the only thing new about Hart was his name and age which he allegedly fudged on

In the 1992 campaign Jerry Brown said Hillary was responsible for polluting Arkansas rivers with chicken waste...

[redqueen]

192. Yes... the "yella" thing... I already said that's nowhere near as bad.

and sorry, but the chicken waste thing is a standard cheap shot.

Try this thread. It asks the question more directly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4880251

[karynnj]

187. Some of us are older or as old as you

In fact, given DU calls to defeat about half the Democratic Senators, I would bet that most people here if transported in time would back Kennedy saying the conservative Carter needs a challenge. It was not clear to me watching from NJ that Carter had much chance of re-election even before that challenge.

[leftynyc]

198. I agree with you there

But the party purists that occupy this board have very childlike visions of politics. Conservative dems are the best you're going to get in many states when it comes to senators. But nooooooo, they must be punished if they don't conform to what the minions consider their pet issue.

And maybe Carter would have lost either way - we'll never know. My point was that politics is politics and nobody is assured of anything. Sen Clinton will withdraw when she's ready to and calling her a traitor for anything is so beyond the pale, I'm disgusted.

[karynnj]

207. I agree

I questioned the logic of a post yesterday which had a blog post advocating writing 21 Democratic Senators saying you would work against them because they voted wrong on one or more FISA bill. I agreed with the OP's position on what was right or wrong - but this was crazy.

I remember carter losing more because of the hostage crisis - amplified by Ted Koppel and his daily show highlighting it with a count of days. From what I remember in 1979, Carter's approval ratings were extremely low - below 30%. Many Democrats were rumored to run, but didn't. Carter's popularity initially rose with the hostage crisis and he won the primaries. Then, as the country became concerned that the crisis was not ending, Kennedy won many of the later ones.

I agree with you that I do not understand why he refused to concede. It might have been he thought Carter could not win - and he had won the later primaries. Ironically, it may be HRC moving in his footsteps this year - possibly for the same reason. that she thinks her pattern of winning means she, not he is more likely to win the general election.

I don't think she should be called anything as bad as "traitor". It has to be enormously hard to concede that a race you threw your heart and soul into, working the grueling schedule needed and giving up a huge amount of privacy - for yourself and family. I can't imagine having every part of my life, appearance, words said, sense of humor etc and that of my family deconstructed and analyzed as every Presidential candidates are. It has to be an enormous commitment to run for President. Especially for those, who at some point see themselves as really being the likely winner, the act of dropping out has to be enormous.

The math for HRC is daunting - and I bet when people look back on this race - when it changed might be the night Obama won the Potomac primaries as decisively as he did or when at the result in Wisconsin. The % of delegates she needs to win is daunting - and likely not to happen. But to quick before today's result would have been premature. She was 20 points ahead in TX and OH when he won WI. Had that held, lightening could have struck and she could catch him in pledged votes.

I don't think that she will get the margins she needs - that would make the % of future contests even remotely doable. Tonight or tomorrow we'll know those numbers. But, it will be her decision when to stop. She very likely won't be the first to stay in longer than they are viable. In fact, it is because she has a substantial number of delegates that it matters. Kuchinich stayed in until Boston (or close to it) - and it had no impact on Kerry. I suspect that at a point where one of them has half the pledged delegates, enough superdelegates will publicly side with them to give that person the magic number - ending the discussion.

[leftynyc]

220. My memories of 1980 parallel yours

I also remember the 18% interest rate being a very large issue. And his "malaise" speech that fed right into Reagan's "morning in America" schtik.

My point was that people are acting as if this is the first time a candidate stayed passed their time - that and the fact that it was their living legend Ted Kennedy that did this.
Sen Clinton simply is not that far behind. And the traitor nonsense is grating to my ear after years of listening to the right wing call anyone to the left of Genghis Khan a traitor. That's what is so annoying. People in my party and feel about the issues the same way I do sounding like Rush, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin and every other right wing gasbag. It's like they can't hear themselves.

I feel if Hillary doesn't win by double digits in all 4 states, she should concede, but that's her decision to make.

[DemGa]

101. Without a doubt Obama is the nastiest, though he pretends otherwise

Passive aggressive - and uses right-wing slander against Hillary i.e., "polarizing and divisive."

Treachery to use right-wing created perceptions against Hillary -- Obama represents the traitor-wing of the Dem Party.

[NJmaverick]

111. LOL! Hillary ACUTALLY is nasty and you give her a free pas

Obama is ACTUALLY nice and you accuse him of being "passive aggressive". Now that is RICH!

[mtnsnake]

140. I couldn't agree more. He's the sneakiest, too,

with the way they pull shit and make it look like it's the Clintons campaign's fault for starting things, when it's really the Obama camp starting all the shit and then crying a river whenever they get hit back.

[CK_John]

125. I think Arron Burr was nasty. n/t

[Emillereid]

127. I do not remember a fellow Democrat being as destructive as Hillary has been

toward a potential nominee. One expects this kind of shit from repukes, but not fellow democrats.

[Perry Logan]

130. Logan's Law: All anti-Hillary threads are based on false premises.

Or lies.

[Exilednight]

131. Nixon

[Forkboy]

142. Not on the Dem side, but I'm sure there's been a few.

[HooptieWagon]

143. Yes, Bush/Rove come to mind

but can't think of any Dems who've sunk as low as Clinton/Penn. I'm glad her gutter campaign is failing miserably, and I can only pray that this becomes her legacy.

[SIMPLYB1980]

145. Yes Obama.

[NJmaverick]

150. FACTS please- Hillary's tactics are not exceptable

here

[Seabiscuit]

146. Lest we forget ... Bush 2000 & 2004 nt

[AtomicKitten]

147. Not on "our" side of the aisle.

And her behavior that mimics the very worst of the rightwing will tear the party apart irreparably. If she manages to ugly her way to the nod, many Democrats will not be a part of this mess and will simply vote down ballot, including me.

[BlackVelvet04]

149. Yeah, Obama. n/t

[NJmaverick]

151. FACTS please- Hillary's tactics are not exceptable

That sort of misinformation campaign doesn't fly here.

[BlackVelvet04]

157. I didn't see you post any facts, nomad....

just misinformation and bullshit. Obviously misinformation campaigns DO fly here or you wouldn't be here.

[NJmaverick]

163. DIrect quotes from Hillary don't count as facts?

Damn! your loyalty for St Hillary has no limits.

[BlackVelvet04]

166. Your OP has no quotes in it, dipshit. n/t

[NJmaverick]

185. I already posted quotes- but it doesn't matter to you

St. Hillary can do no wrong.

PS- "Dipshit" is a nice touch. Reflects well on YOU and HILLARY

[SIMPLYB1980]

195. Fact here is Obama's tactic.

[NJmaverick]

206. Where is the "fact"?

I don't see it. Was it the cartoon?

[SIMPLYB1980]

208. The flier came from Obama's campaign.

[NJmaverick]

210. No where is the nastiness?

Where is Obama ripping apart Hillary with false accusations?

[truebrit71]

155. Bradley...but he wasn't anywhere near as nasty or vile as HRC...

..

[itcfish]

156. Hillary Nasty?

LOL that is funny. You Obamiacs are blind deaf and dumb.

[NJmaverick]

165. "SHAME ON YOU!"

Oh wait, you refused to HEAR that speech and turned a BLIND eye to it.

[OzarkDem]

170. Typical sexist attitude

If a woman makes a strong statement about her opponent, she's considered "nasty".

If a man does the same thing he's considered "aggressive".

[NJmaverick]

172. OH yeah that's right

Anyone that says anything bad about St. Hillary's bad behavior MUST be a sexist.

[OzarkDem]

176. It is when its a double standard

Obama supporters keep expecting everyone to judge Hillary by different rules than if she were a man running against Obama.

We didn't hear any of this stuff when other Dems criticized him. Why only Clinton?

[NJmaverick]

178. LOL! You really have lost touch with reality

When you show me another candidate who, like your Sainted Hillary, endorsed a Republican over her Democratic opponent... THEN we can talk. Otherwise you hare so far out there, discussion is meaningless.

[NJmaverick]

212. No it's more like Hillary supporters want her to get a free pass

The minute she is judged by the SAME standards, that a man would be judged by, they scream "SEXISM". You know part of equality is actually being held to EQUAL standards. These sort of tactics were unexceptable by a man (george bush) and they are no more exceptable in a woman (Hillary).

[amborin]

167. Hillary takes no crap off thugs, she's a fighter, she will fight for workers' rights

[NJmaverick]

174. She fights for HERSELF

The rest is a matter of convenience.

[OzarkDem]

168. Obama in 2008; Kennedy in 1980

Two examples of people who weren't good candidates, but put their egos ahead of the Democratic party.

[NJmaverick]

182. Not one supporter of St. Hillary can back up that claim

with anything like quotes from Obama. Why do you suppose they can support their claim?

[surfermaw]

171. Any one over 16, can remember plenty that were nastier, this is politics, not Tiddly Winks

[mtnsnake]

175. Can anyone recall a candidate that was more pompous, theatrical, and spoiled-acting than Obama?

I know that in my lifetime I've never seen anyone who takes criticism as poorly as Obama does.

I've never seen a candidate who tilts his head back so far in such an arrogant manner when he's talking about his opponent, or bragging about himself, as Obama does.

I've never seen anyone who acts so cocky and arrogant when he's ahead like this guy does.

He acts like he thinks he's God's gift to Presidential candidates.

[NJmaverick]

181. A good example of the nastiness that characterizes

Hillary AND here supporters.

[mtnsnake]

194. There ya go. A Hillary supporter criticizes Obama, & then YOU initiate personal attacks

on Hillary's supporters. How typical of you.

[NJmaverick]

211. The personal attack would be what? exactly?

I mean false accusations might cut it at the Free Republic, but I would like to think they don't cut it here at DU.

[mtnsnake]

221. You're really funny acting like you don't know.

"A good example of the nastiness that characterizes Hillary AND her supporters"

When Obama was the only one being criticized, there was no need for you to make it personal about the Hillary supporters, but as usual you did. You see, you always initiate the personal shit, and then when a Clinton supporters returns it, you make believe someone else started flinging it first.

Nice try

[Occam Bandage]

190. "Where's the beef?"

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

193. I agree

Dont ever remember a dem being this bad and only what bush did to McCain in 2000 comes to mind on the other side..

[yardwork]

197. I can't think of a Republican candidate that hasn't been nastier!

Kerry and Dean weren't exactly cordial to one another in 2004.

I started paying attention to politics in 1968. That was an incredibly nasty campaign on both sides. The assassinations, of course, didn't contribute to a pleasant atmosphere. /sarcasm. The Democratic National Convention in Chicago (perhaps you've heard about it - if not, google) was characterized by riots outside and some of the worst behavior among politicians on the inside I've ever witnessed.

I don't recall that things were much better in 1976. Reagan and Ford duked it out for the nomination, while Jimmy Carter fought down and dirty to get the Democratic nomination.

Democrats and independents were at one another's throats again in 1980.

Actually, this has been one of the calmest and most polite primary years I can remember. The internet makes it easy for supporters of each candidate to lob nasty comments at one another, but there's been very little on either Obama or Hillary's side that is nasty, imo.

[jefferson_dem]

201. Nope. Hillary wins the prize for "scumbagiest" Democratic candidate in modern Party history.

'attagirl.

[IsItJustMe]

202. To be honest about it, only Republicans.

[yardwork]

205. The 1968, 1976, and 1980 Democratic primaries were far, far worse.

To name just three.

[MoonRiver]

203. I recall Barack Hussein Obama and his minions.

:puke::puke::puke:

[elixir]

213. I think you're overreacting. Obama supporters are too fragile and sensitive.

[snappyturtle]

214. Nope. n/t

[tabasco]

215. I handed out pamphlets for Humphrey when I was 13 years old.

Hillary's comment extolling McCain's experience is the worst thing I have seen in a primary.

It's one thing to slime your opponent, which she has done, but to elevate a crooked, rotten republican over an outstanding Dem candidate is as stupid, low, and rotten as I have seen a Democrat in the primaries.

[skooooo]

216. Hillary exudes nastiness....nt

[midora]

218. She's the Nastiest Democratic Candidate Ever

Democrats generally don't sink to smear tactics. They try to take the higher road. Hillary the Hellcat is a notable exception.

[JoFerret]

217. Obama is equal. (Wins by a nose)

But actually has the edge because of the smarm factor

[Enrique]

222. some people's views of Hillary are distorted

[complain jane]

225. That's the truth.

[krkaufman]

223. Not in the Democratic primaries. Ever. n/t

[complain jane]

224. Well

I guess that depends, if we were to drink the Kool Aid and buy into every shrill accusation thrown at Hillary of real *and imagined* offenses, then she'd be pretty nasty.

But if you have to parse her words into oblivion and put your tinfoil hat on to come up with a list of things that quality her as "nasty", she's about on par.

Going out of our way to find things to feign outrage over doesn't mean HRC is necessarily any nastier than any other candidate.

Although I do think acknowledging McCain's experience over Obama's lack of experience was a bizarre move.

[northzax]

226. you're young, right?

if you are under 33 of so, you've never seen a real primary fight among the dems, I undertand that. Buy go back, 92 was nasty, 88, 84, 80, 76...the past three elections have been the abberation, not the norm