From an Obama supporter: Can someone explain what Hillary really meant when she told Kroft, "I take

[closeupready]

Obama at his word" that he is not muslim? I don't understand people's objections.

If the objection is to the subtext, "I don't know, but if he claims not to be, then I guess we have to believe him", is that not parsing things a little? I saw the interview, and actually thought it was more or less fine.

[gateley]

1. I thought it was fine too

until people began citing examples of how it would sound if the shoe was on the other foot --

There were so many better ways she could have responded -- if she had wanted to.

[LSparkle]

2. You're right -- IF she had wanted to

Clearly she had no intention of truly putting this lie to bed ... which makes me wonder even more if she had something to do with getting it spread around to begin with.

[Brotherjohn]

17. No, she could not have put it to bed. She is not the authority on Obama's personal life.

It's not her responsibility, nor is it in her ability, to "put it to bed". Do you think those "Obama is a Radical Muslim" e-mails are going to stop because Hillary says so?

If I had been asked the same question, I'd have said "Sure, whatever he says. It's his life. If he says he's not Muslim, he's not Muslim! Why do you keep asking me about this!"

He asked her three times. After getting what I interpreted to be pretty clear and unequivocal answers the first time, he asked again... twice.

[LSparkle]

26. She KNOWS he's not a Muslim ...

What would it have cost her to just come out and say that? I would have respected her more had she said something like, "I think that's been disproven and I disassociate myself with any further spreading of that lie." The only reason Kroft pressed her on it was because her "denunciation" of it was so flat and unconvincing.

[Brotherjohn]

34. Well, my view is different. I think her answers WERE unambiguous and convincing...

I think Kroft was fishing for something to play up.

He asked if she thought he was a Muslim (stupid question) and her initial response was "Of course not. I mean that's, you know, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that."

"Of course not". "There is no basis for that". And that IS the only way she would know. "What he says" IS the basis by which anyone would counter the ridiculous claim. She wasn't there throughout his life. That's the best evidence she has with which to counter it. She doesn't have the names of peiople he grew up with at her fingertips, nor should she be expected to start talking about the fact that various people who have known him for some time can vouch for his religious beliefs.

She was asked if she believed it. She said no. She said why.

The second question was KROFT phrasing it as "take him at his word", and all she said was "Right. Right."

I think her approach towards the end, especially the "as far as I know" at the end, were because of the incessant questioning. She might as well have said... "Give it up, Steve!" But he then pulled back and said "Scurrilous" and she went on to equate it with the smears against her.

I think she is uncomfortable talking about it, yes, given that her campaign was accused of spreading the rumor. I think she didn't go far enough to say "it's horrible for anyone to even think that would be a smear" (but then she'd have been tagged as supporting it as a possibility, too: "So WHAT if he's Muslim!?"). I think she equivocates too much, and I think she is proving to be not quite the campaigner, or as quick on her feet, as her supporters had hoped. But I don't think she meant anything other than to discount the smear here.

[Beausoir]

3. It's the DU outrage Du Jour. Non-issue and energy wasting.

No one in the "real" world would blink an eye at that. Only here...where everything is whipped into a hurricane would this be an issue.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. As far as I know, she wasn't equivocating.

I take her at her word.

[tyne]

5. What she meant

was, even though Obama attended a Catholic school, and has been a member of the same Christian church for the last twenty years, she takes him at his word that he's a Christian...well, as far as she knows.

That's what she meant.

[ContinentalOp]

6. It wasn't that. It was the "As far as I know."

When I watched the video I didn't think any of it was a big deal until the end where she threw in "As far as I know." It was the way she said it as well. It implied that maybe there's some extra information out there that she's not privy to.

[closeupready]

24. Oh, I see. Okay, yeah, I got it.

That could have been non-deliberate; after all, if the notion is that she rehearsed that wording in advance, how could she have known that Kroft was going to ask such a direct question? Her response seemed natural. I suppose it would be characteristic of Hillary to sort of answer such things ambiguously - why (she must think) is it her burden to clear the air about voter misgivings/rumors?

Thanks.

[Blue_In_AK]

7. Being a Muslim - or being mistaken for one - is not an insult. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. So you haven't got a problem with these "obama is a muslim" emails?

[Blue_In_AK]

20. I'm just saying that somehow we more enlightened people

here in the US -- of which I'm sure you're one -- need to start reframing the debate. I think it must be terribly insulting to Muslims when we act as if labeling someone a Muslim automatically brands them as something terribly inferior, fatally flawed, someone to be avoided at all costs.

You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. I don't think muslims are that stupid.

You don't have to be a genius to understand race baiting.

Obviously the Kenyan cattlemen knew the score.

[Blue_In_AK]

32. Technically, it's not race-baiting, it's religion-baiting

if there is such a thing, but I agree Muslims are not stupid. I just think the whole issue is blown way out of proportion, and people who take offense at what Hillary said are making a big fuss about not much. Obama's supporters are analyzing her every word, her every sentence structure, trying to find something to get worked up about. My guess is Obama has much thicker skin regarding Hillary's words than his supporters who are going nuts over this.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Same thing.

Hence the euphemism "sand N*****."

[Blue_In_AK]

35. Not all Muslims are Middle Eastern or Arab...

...which I think is what that lovely euphemism refers to. But it doesn't really matter. I'll concede your point if you'll concede mine...which is, bottom line, "Muslim" is not a four-letter word.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. No, but race-baiting is.

And I wish people would quit apologizing for it.

[Blue_In_AK]

37. I'm not apologizing for race-baiting, if that's what you think.

I just don't think that's what Hillary was doing. If anybody was race-baiting it was Steve Kroft for asking such a ridiculous question and then pressing her on it. This is really why one's spiritual beliefs or lack thereof should have no place in politics. I personally would be happy if they were all atheists, then maybe we wouldn't have to talk about this stuff.

[NorthernSpy]

13. being a lesbian, or being mistaken for one, is not an insult...

But if such a question about Clinton had been posed to Obama, and if he had answered it as Hillary did, you'd have no problem discerning the dogwhistle-to-bigots tactic.


I'd bet dollars to dimes on that.

[Blue_In_AK]

21. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't mean to be grouchy this morning, but all this "labeling" is just pissing me off. Everybody's conditioned to these buzz words like a bunch of Pavlov's dogs. We should be better than this -- and we need to call out our bigoted neighbors on their stupid fears. Muslim, lesbian, whatever. Who the fuck cares?

I'm going away now. Carry on.

[NorthernSpy]

27. what she's insinuating is that he's lying to us about it...

That's where the smear comes in.

And then, of course, the question becomes, why would he do that? And voila -- one well, poisoned. He's one of them, and he means us harm. What's he going to do against that?


I have no respect for her at this point. I don't know why anyone does.

[Blue_In_AK]

28. Honestly, I'm kind of tired of them both...

These two were my least favorite candidates all along, and every day I'm understanding more why I've felt that way. I'm just sort of playing Devil's Advocate here...although I do seriously have a problem with the way the word "Muslim" is thrown around almost like some kind of swear word.

Maybe I'm a little sensitive because my new son-in-law -- a wonderful person whom my daughter loves deeply -- is an Australian Muslim, relatively new to the United States. I can't help but put myself in his place and wonder how he feels about all of this.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. The biggest objection is that she did not SAY that

“You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?” Kroft asked Sen. Clinton.
“Of course not. I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that,” she replied.

“You said you'd take Senator Obama at his word that he's not…a Muslim. You don't believe that he's…,” Kroft said.

“No. No, there is nothing to base that on. As far as I know,” she said.

“It's just scurrilous…?” Kroft inquired.

“Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time,” Clinton said.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/181025.php

[NorthernSpy]

10. thing is, it's not the first time she's made such a performance of vouching for a man...

For the subtext impaired:


I've been lied to before. Maybe Obama's lying to me now. He could be concealing his true loyalties.

Maybe he's not one of us. Maybe he's one of Them.

[Beausoir]

18. Uh-oh! Did you just insert the first Clenis of the day into this thread?

Ding ding!

Give this poster the cigar!

[NorthernSpy]

25. Can it. Clinton is playing dirty, and I'm explaining how it works.

You don't want us to talk about this? Tough shit.

You can't just shut down this discussion with a few "clenis" references. This may blow your mind, but many of Hillary's most vehement detractors nowadays have already done their time defending the Clintons.

Get this through your head: it's 2008 and we don't owe them a damn thing.

[Beausoir]

30. It was a joke.

:+

[laconicsax]

11. It's the GD:P's Razor principle

Occam's Razor (paraphrase): Of two different explanations and all other things being equal, the simplest explanation is best.

GD:P's Razor (paraphrase): Of two different explanations and all other things being equal, the most contrived explanation is best, but only if it helps your candidate.

[AtomicKitten]

12. She's perpetuating the myth, intentionally.

[bellasgrams]

14. Well she could have said I don't have the facts all I know is he

says........would you have liked that better? This is such utter nonesense. You're lucky she gave any answer about someone else's religion. It's no one's business what religion anyone practices. She knows he attends a Christian church. She doesn't know what is in his heart.

[SeaLyons]

15. ...

Her reply was fine. No one with a brain thinks Obama is a Muslim. His supporters like to jerk Hillary around any chance they get.


Hillary!!!!! All the way to the White House

[papau]

16. ;Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for

“Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time,” Clinton

the above is the line -

but ignored under the Obama con and smear approach rules

Obama is someone everyone can get 100% behind - not

[Yael]

23. In other words, "what is good for the goose is good for the gander and

if I can't have the nom in November, I will do anything and everything in my power to make sure HE doesn't get it either".

[goletian]

19. it was an okay response, but...

from someone who would nitpick over "reject" vs "denounce," youd think shed take a more absolute stance on the subject instead of merely conceding the point based on his word. its a very ordinary response from a woman thats supposed to be extraordinary; it definitely doesnt win hillary any points.

[Yael]

22. Muslim is not insulting. Insinuating that someone could be

lying to the American people about being muslim is.

[Arkansas Granny]

29. I think it was meant to be a "gotcha" question or he wouldn't have

kept pressing her even after she had given him an answer. I didn't see the entire interview, but I did see the clip that everyone is talking about.