Electoral College tie?

[mcd1982]

I was playing around with the electoral college map on John Edwards' presidential site, and I came up with a electoral college tie 269-269.

What happens in that case? Doesn't it go to the House of Representatives?

Let's say Kerry had more in the popular vote and a tie in the electoral college, yet the House gave the election to Bush -- I don't know what could be worse!!!

[trotsky]

1. I'll tell you what would be worse.

Yes, the election is then decided by the H of R. But it's by the *current* one. So what would be worse, is in the same election, the Dems sweep to a majority in the house. But the current congress, still being in Repuke hands, votes to reappoint the monkey.

[goclark]

2. That is really worse

We must devote each second of every day to getting a monumental win.
The REDS are so very important.

[ezee]

3. What will happen

then is a REVOLT. I dont think that anyone but the repubs would allow that to stand. Thus a revolt.

[bkcc]

5. actually...

That scenario would be bad, but we'd be in a better situation than we are now.

At least we'd control ONE of the houses of Congress. If * wins this fall and the House and Senate are still in Republican hands, I'm packing my bags and heading out of the country.

[LiberalFighter]

15. Then we could at least impeach the bastard

if we got the House.

[NewJerseyDem]

20. It is actually the incoming House

I'm pretty sure that it would be the House of Representatives that is elected in 2004 that would vote for the presidency. So, we would need to pick up quite a few seats in states that are close to elect Kerry in the House of Representatives.

[wuushew]

22. I don't believe so, see amendments 12 and 20

AMENDMENT XII
Passed by Congress December 9, 1803. Ratified June 15, 1804.

Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. * The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

*Superseded by section 3 of the 20th amendment.



AMENDMENT XX
Passed by Congress March 2, 1932. Ratified January 23, 1933.

Note: Article I, section 4, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of this amendment. In addition, a portion of the 12th amendment was superseded by section 3.

Section 1.
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

Section 2.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

Section 3.
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Section 4.
The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.

Section 5.
Sections 1 and 2 shall take effect on the 15th day of October following the ratification of this article.

Section 6.
This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission.

[Hoosier Democrat]

4. It would be a Bizarre Scenario:

If there is an electoral tie, the race is thrown into Both houses of Congress:

The House picks the President

The Senate Picks the VP.

Now, if Daschle and Company hadn't sold out the Democratic Party in 2002 and we would have kept the Senate, imagine this scenario:

A Democratic Senate picks a Democratic VP

The Republican House re-appoints Dumbya.

Would make for a very interesting term.

[AndyTiedye]

6. We Dems Got Robbed and Murdered in 2002

> Now, if Daschle and Company hadn't sold out the Democratic Party in 2002 and we would have kept the Senate

Daschle got an offer he couldn't refuse,
but that's not why we lost the Senate.

We got robbed in Georgia
and murdered in Minnesota.

[LiberalFighter]

16. Gore for VP??

How much would that eat at them?

[mndemocrat_29]

17. This could've happened in 2000 (I believe)

If Florida had kept going, and the vote had gone to the House and Senate after January 3rd-then the Senate would've been tied fifty-fifty and Gore could've cast the deciding ballot, whereas Bush would've won in the House.

[Gildor Inglorion]

7. Nightmare scenario!

And why it's so DESPERATELY important that we hold onto the states Gore carried in 2000 and pick up one more - West Virginia, for example.

[mcd1982]

8. we still...

wouldn't win with just West Virginia:

Democrats=265

Republicans=273


We need West Virginia and one other state with 5 or more electoral votes. Even West Virginia and New Hampshire, which is how I got the tie 269-269, would not win us the election.

[yellowcanine]

9. 269-269 not likely - a couple of states aren't winner take all

I want to say Nebraska and Maine - but not sure that is correct. Anyway, a couple of states give an electoral vote to the winner of each congressional district - and then overall winner of the state gets an extra electoral vote-something like that.

[zorkpolitics]

10. Don't expect any split EV

Only NE and ME select by congressional district (plus 2 to the state wide winner) and neither has ever split their electoral votes.

As of now Kerry leads polls in OH and FL which would give him a comfortable EV win.

[TowelBoy]

11. I'll tell you what could be worse

If the president loses the election but gets selected by the ultra-conservative Supreme Court.

Oh wait... that already happened :(

[tedoll78]

12. Note to remember:

in the case of an electoral tie, each state's House delegation gets a vote. Which means that it could end-up being surprisingly close. For example, the Dems currently dominate the Texas delegation to the House of Representatives.

I haven't crunched the numbers, but something tells me that the end vote would be much closer than one might think. The GOP dominates most of the delegations it controls, while the Dems usually barely have majorities in the states they control.

[meow2u3]

13. That's the real reason Bugboy wanted TX gerrymandered

...to try to drive enough Dems out of office by replacing them with Repukes, giving TX a Repuke delegation :grr:

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. Such an outcome is a very remote possibility

The reason that Texas was redistricted was to increase the Republican majority in the House so that:

1. Delay has an easier time pushing through legislation.

2. The Republicans can hold on to the majority and Delay
can become Speaker when Hastert steps down due to term
limits.

[NewJerseyDem]

18. Here's how state delegations are aligned now

I really need a life.

ME: Democrat
NH: Republican
VT: Democrat
MA: Democrat
RI: Democrat
CT: Republican (members might vote Dem, because state is heavily Dem)
NY: Democrat
NJ: Democrat
PA: Republican
DE: Republian (Castle also could vote for Kerry)
MD: Democrat
VA: Republican
NC: Republican
SC: Republican
GA: Republican
FL: Republican
AL: Republican
MS: Republican (technically 2-2 split but Taylor would definitely vote for Bush)
LA: Republican
AR: Democrat (potential switches if Bush wins state)
TN: Democrat (potential switches to republican)
KY: Republican
WV: Democrat
OH: Republican
IN: Republican
MI: Republican
WI: Tie
IL: Republican (potential, but unlikely switch to democrats)
MO: Republican
IA: Republican
MN: Tie
ND: Democrat (potential switch to republican)
SD: unknown (assume Herseth will win but could vote republican)
NE: Republican
KS: Republican
OK: Republican
TX: Tie (at least one Dem would probably switch to republican though)
NM: Republican
CO: Republican
WY: Republican
ID: Republican
MT: Republican
UT: Republican
AZ: Republican
NV: Republican
CA: Democrat
OR: Democrat
WA: Democrat
AK: Republican
HI: Democrat

So, it should be about 32 for Bush to 15 for Kerry, but it could change slightly from members voting how their states, not their party voted. Also, isn't the incoming congress what matter? Maybe, I'm wrong about that.

[mndemocrat_29]

19. So AL seats would go to whomever had that vote?

In that case, here's how the states would go

Alabama-Republican
Alaska-Republican
Arizona-Republican
Arkansas-Democrat
California-Democrat
Colorado-Republican
Connecticut-Republican
Delaware-Republican
Florida-Republican
Georgia-Republican
Hawaii-Democrat
Idaho-Republican
Illinois-Republican
Indiana-Republican
Iowa-Republican
Kansas-Republican
Kentucky-Republican
Louisiana-Republican
Maine-Democrat
Maryland-Democrat
Massachusetts-Democrat
Michigan-Republican
Minnesota-Tie
Mississippi-Tie
Missouri-Republican
Montana-Republican
Nebraska-Republican
Nevada-Republican
New Hampshire-Republican
New Jersey-Democrat
New Mexico-Republican
New York-Democrat
North Carolina-Republican
North Dakota-Democrat
Ohio-Republican
Oklahoma-Republican
Oregon-Democrat
Pennsylvania-Republican
Rhode Island-Democrat
South Carolina-Republican
South Dakota-Special Election (Probably Democrat)
Tennessee-Democrat
Texas-Tie
Utah-Republican
Vermont-Independent (I'd guess Democrat)
Virginia-Republican
Washington-Democrat
West Virginia-Democrat
Wisconsin-Tie
Wyoming-Republican

Assuming that the ties would go to whomever won the state (with Minnesota and Wisconsin going Dem, Mississippi and Texas going GOP), the count would be:

Bush-32
Kerry-18

[Paradise]

14. Nah, it goes to the Supremes. n/t