Quotes of the day highlight differences in mindset-and snarkiness

[babylonsister]

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/3/2/111558/4119

Quotes of the Day

by Steven D
Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 11:15:58 AM EST
This one from Hillary Clinton:

"He {McCain} will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Sen. Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002," she told reporters, rejecting her rival's complaints that she was engaging in fear-mongering.

"Everyone knows that John McCain will make this election about national security. That is a given. And it will be imperative that we have a nominee who is able to stand on that stage with Sen. McCain, and I believe I am the person best able to do that," she said.


**VERSUS**


http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/3/2/7946/06653

Barack Obama, at a rally yesterday in Rhode Island:

"I don't want to just end the war. I want to end the mind set that got us in the war," Obama said. "I want to end the politics of fear, the fever of fear that uses 9/11 as a way to scare up votes instead of a way to bring the country together to go after a common enemy."

I agree. Risking a plagiarism charge, let me add that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself . I think someone famous once said that.

So which quote do you prefer?

[jody]

1. How will BO "end the mind set that got us in the war . . . to go after a common enemy"? n/t

[babylonsister]

4. For starters, not trying to terrorize people with what he says? That's

the intent behind her recent commerical and her rhetoric. Be very afraid! :scared:

[jody]

8. What is the common enemy BO wants us to fight with our powerful military? n/t

[babylonsister]

18. Bin Laden and al Qaeda, in Afghanistan? You know, the

people actually responsible for 9/11?

[jody]

20. Sadly it looks like our fight in Afghanistan is not doing to well. Sooner or later we must follow

Russia's lead and leave that troubled country.

[Inuca]

23. There still are ways to hopefully fix that

Look for instance for what the three senators (Biden, Kerry, Hagel) that just came back from there said about it recently.

[jody]

25. Perhaps you are right, but I'll trust the several dozen officers with whom I've talked, who served

recent tours in Afghanistan.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. did he say with our powerful military? Our common enemy is

poverty- sickness- homelessness- joblessness- environmental disaster- corporate welfare- greed- hoplessness- etc.

We have allowed these issues to make us vulunerable to attack from all quarters.

Our infastructure is crumbling, our economy is imploding, we have initiated war in foreign countires that have created new enemies- Healthcare is a disaster, global warming, and energy needs are threatening every person.

:shrug:

peace~

[niceypoo]

17. Um, if they terrorize people, why does he say them?

Your logic is a little off...

[Inuca]

24. ??? n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Pick and choose statements to compare. Nice try. Hey...

...why not compare the statement Clinton made in the debate (before last) where she complimented Obama, and then use the quote where Obama called Clinton a Punjab. Then compare snarky to nice.

[UALRBSofL]

3. Shhhhh Don't say that word

The Media has kept that out and doesn't want anyone to know Obama called her that. :)

[babylonsister]

5. Bob Johnson, Shaheen, Rangel, Tom Buffenbarger, fear bombs,

etc., etc., etc. Don't go there; I'm sure the ugly quotes from the Clinton camp far outweigh anything you've heard from anyone who's pro-Obama. You're grasping at straws, and it's pretty obvious.

[Debi]

9. Before you waste your time with this argument

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4838037&mesg_id=4844329

This is becoming a habit x(

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. I am sorry, Debi?

What is the problem?

[Debi]

12. No problem - just thought the poster would like to know

that you are going on to Obama supporter threads challenging them to say something nice about Clinton or their posts aren't accurate and yet you don't seem to be going on Clinton threads challenging them to say something nice about Obama or their posts aren't accurate. The argument seems to be a waste of time...no, it is a waste of time.

[Evergreen Emerald]

22. YOu misunderstood the post.

But, go ahead. If it makes you feel better, post everyone of my threads.

[Debi]

26. Oh, I misunderstood, please then set me straight n/t

[Cha]

33. It would be a challenge to say something

nice about clinton at this point and I certainly wouldn't be able to come up with anything.

[kdpeters]

36. Consider the lie she just told, I'm inclined to agree with you.

It is a waste of time to reason with a dishonest person.

[babylonsister]

13. Thanks, and you're right. My ignore list gets longer,

but hopefully for only 2 more days. Then I start over.

[Debi]

27. Anytime

:hi:

I hope this garbage ends soon.

[Evergreen Emerald]

29. me too.

I have been here for years and because I refuse to allow people to attack me or the candidate I support, I am vilified. We are upside down and backwards here on DU where people who constantly attack others are given posts where they are praised.

I cannot wait unti this garbage ends.

[Debi]

38. As have many of us

Duration of membership doesn't equate with positive behavior. You cannot dictate that people 'be nice' to your candidate of choice. You haven't come up with a single anti-Obama thread where you directed the Clinton supporters to be nice to Obama. Yet you attack Obama supporters for not saying nice things about Clinton. We are all part of the problem. Don't place yourself on a pedestal.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Hillary really needs to stop elevating McCain as some formidable national security expert--

because he's not. He's been WRONG! And I love how she and McCain are using the same tack to squeeze Obama out of contention: "Don't let him try to compete with McCain! He's a newbie, a weakling! He's not worthy to be on the same stage as St. John--OH NOES!"

[babylonsister]

15. This must be part of her 'kitchen sink' strategy. nt

[Adelante]

7. Hillary reinforces herself by aligning with the opposition candidate

:wtf:

[babylonsister]

14. I know; whacked.

And every time she opens her mouth about security, I think IWR and her competence. Every time experience is mentioned, I think of that pregnant pause...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4837960

[Straight Shooter]

11. Barack isn't interested in how we got into Iraq; how can he "end the mind set" that got us there?

Obama Mouths Mush On War

In essence, all Obama wants from the Bush regime is that it fess up to having launched the war based on false information, and to henceforth come clean with the Senate on how it plans to proceed in the future. Those Democrats who want to dwell on the past - the actual genesis and rationale for the war, and the real reasons for its continuation - should be quiet. Both sides are wrong, says Obama - deploying the classic triangulation device - for engaging in a "war of talking points" - "one I am not interested in joining."

http://www.blackcommentator.com/161/161_cover_obama_iraq.html

I agree with Hillary. Like it or not, national security will be a major issue in the GE, as will patriotism.

It sounds almost as if Obama is dismissing the severity of trauma that 9/11 inflicted on Americans (and the world), by implying that invoking 9/11 is merely a way to "scare up votes." It was a hard, hard lesson for America. Instead of ending a mind set, which may take decades to reverse the damage already done, we need to concentrate on security now, because there are breaches which need immediate attention. If you can't convince people of the need for that security, you aren't doing your job as president. bush, of course, turned the need for security into a personal power grab and neglected all else.

[babylonsister]

16. Dismissing 9/11? Not interested in how we got where we are?

You need to do some reading...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/28/7343/

October 2002 Speech: Against Going to War With Iraq
by Barack Obama

October 2, 2002


Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil. Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not — we will not — travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

[Straight Shooter]

28. One speech. One speech in 2002.

Keep banging that drum, it drowns out what he's done since then. The loud noise of nothing.

[babylonsister]

30. Are you really that dense? I don't think so. Do some research.

I'm tired of defending; it's out there if you're really interested, but of course, you're not. You're content to distort and smear. Have at it. You have two days.

[Straight Shooter]

39. You lost me when you inferred that I'm "dense." Patronization doesn't win debates. n/t

[jody]

21. Be calm, just repeat after me, Hope, Change, Hope, Change, . . . . . . . .

[Cha]

31. Imagine if Obama said this...

"I agree. Risking a plagiarism charge, let me add that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself . I think someone famous once said that."

:patriot: :toast: :patriot:

[grantcart]

32. Bill Clinton had it about right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzu_DsVJVPI

[Vinca]

34. Hillary counts her lifetime of experience as everything from the day

she left college. How does working at the Rose Law Firm prepare her to answer the 3 a.m. phone call? How does picking out White House china and overseeing the decorating of large Christmas trees count as a qualification? The one important thing she was put in charge of - health care - she tanked. She's a very smart woman, to be sure, but let's not go crazy on the "experience" mantra. Being married to a neurosurgeon doesn't automatically make you qualified to be a doctor.

[oasis]

37. "Experience" comes from being tested through the years. Hillary's been tested. (eom)

[bigbrother05]

35. Response to Cnn March 1 08 on Foreign Policy

On CNN today:
Q: Senator, can you talk about one specific time when you've had to make that kind of 3 A.M., split-second decision based on foreign policy?

Clinton: Well, I was involved in a lot of the decisions that were made. But again, you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. I'm presenting – you know, no one who hasn't been president has ever done that. So, that's not the right question. The question is, what have you done over the course of a lifetime to equip you for that moment. Now, I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth the speech he made in 2002. And that's why national security is a critical issue for Democrats as we go into this primary; because everyone knows that John McCain will make this election about national security, that is a given. And it will be imperative that we have a nominee who is able to stand on that stage with Senator McCain, and I believe I am the person best able to do that.

I think this response should make it clear, she has no experience and is not even ready for McCain