Its time I out myself, I was talking to a republican today who had flipped to Obama, he said.....

[ThatBozGuy]

Damn you look ugly in that mirror.

No anecdote. Born and raised in Cleveland Ohio, 40 year old white guy, republican for my whole voting life, lived in Chicago while Mr Obama was running for the senate. My movement path from Cleveland to Chicago to Silicon Valley is directly related to the loss of jobs and manufacturing brought on by NAFTA in Ohio and the Midwest. I said to myself when I lived in Chicago, man, that guy is going to be a great president someday I hope he survives. I never expected to see it to be this soon but he is right the time is now.

Now I live in silicon valley and I have questioned my party affiliation for quite some time during this administration, but physically made the decision and sent in the registration when Mr Obama announced his candidacy. He not only changed my position with his candidacy but he did affect my kitchen table issues thinking and voting record even in the election before these primaries.

I can tell you alot of other info on myself if you care to ask and why he has converted alot in my specific demographic and why his being a framing candidate rather than a fighting candidate will be amazing for the coattails of the Democratic party in the General not just for the presidency but all levels.

I will also be clear that if he is not the parties nominee I will be hard pressed not to remove myself from any affiliation, Don't get me wrong, I think Ms. Clinton is a very talented politician, but Mr Obama is not just a candidate but a movement and a ground game you cant pay for and not capturing that movement for the party would show the shallowness of the strength of the parties future to impact its own health.

Intelligent discourse and questions welcome, flames to where ever you prefer to stick them in your own personal space.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. No flames from me, Boz.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Adelante]

2. Welcome to DU, ThatBozGuy

And to the Democratic Party - I hope you stay with us :hi:

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

3. Good post and welcome.

[RememberWellstone]

4. Sure.

Welcome to DU but it's kind of hard to take all these Obama supporters from nowhere. Geeeeez.

[peacebird]

5. welcome! fwiw I think many former repubs are walking the same path this year...

While Obama was not my first choice, I honestly believe he is the break from the past that we need. He can rally Americans to come together - and we need to come together again as a nation. We need to remember that our similarities are greater than our differences, and we need to learn to work together (which means no one gets exactly what they want, but we find middle ground and middle ground is "okay")

:hi:

[Pokey Anderson]

51. estimated 8-10% of voters in the Texas Dem primary are past Republicans

According to pollsters quoted in the Houston Chronicle. (Texans have been voting for 11 days in early voting, and the turnout is record-breaking.... including those who used to vote Republican.)

[billybob537]

6. Welcome aboard fellow traveler!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Welcome To DU, Glad To Have Ya, And I Hope You Find A Home In The Democratic Party!

I'm thrilled to hear Obama has done that to you, and it's great to have ya on board!

:toast:

[Cha]

8. Rec'd,, Welcome to DU Bozguy.

Interesting..you have lived the human side of nafta. Were you able to vote for Obama in the California primary?

[ThatBozGuy]

16. Yes I did and I have to say the enrgy was something I had never seen

I was surprised when he didn't take it because the energy for him all over was palpable by the day of the primary. But you have to realize pre-voting had been going on ( and is huge here ) for almost 8 weeks before Obama broke through to people. He had a serious uphill battle to overcome in Oakland specifically. I believe if he had a few more weeks he would have overcome the Votes that were already cast before the primary actually took hold in the mainstream consciousness.

[Cha]

21. That's what we were thinking about the

pre-voting.. before the Obama wave had hit its stride. Thanks for helping him get as close as he did there.

[xxqqqzme]

84. I believe you are right.

Many of my friends - mostly Edwards supporters - had sent their vote by mail ballot in before Edwards withdrew. Many expressed regret because they would have voted for Obama.

[paulk]

9. the fact that you're pushing the line that Obama has coattails

which is what I've been hearing from every Obama supporter I run across on the internet, with absolutely no clear reasoning to back that up other than faith...

and that you're a Republican voting for Obama because he is, well, Obama I guess, which is another of the selling points being pushed by the faithful...


wouldn't make me doubt your sincerity a single bit!

[ThatBozGuy]

22. I understand your reservation

I wouldn't believe it if I didn't live it. Because Im hard pressed to believe in hype and there is ALOT of hype when it comes to Mr Obama admittedly so. But I went to a debate watching event at a Senegalese restaurant in San Francisco.

Old habits die hard and I was prepared to walk into a hippy dippy lovefest liberal welfare state loving tie dyed and so on.......

I was prepared to sit in a corner and watch and just observe, I watched as people started talking to each other, I watched as people began to share what they were preparing to do, and I got engaged by people that wanted to know why I chose Obama and like here I said my background girding for the worst. You know what happened 40 percent of the room said oh thank god thats me too.

Here I was thinking these were die hard demo organizers becasue of what many of the people were telling others they were doing or other events that they were planning and inviting to. There were phone bankers, canvassers, ground swell closers and even a contingent of people who were going to be heading to texas to volunteer. There were people saying how they had decided to do similar things in Nevada and it was complete against there character, not there style but so rewarding they cant stress more to do it and parties for results and so and so on.

Heres the key to coattails involved in this and why you can't pay for it. Almost all these activities had nothing to do with the Campaigns direct involvement. IT WAS SELF ACTUALIZING, it was forming itself. That energy and process can not be mechanized to start it cant be machined no matter how its astroturfed it can only either be captured and ridden like a wave or lost.

[paulk]

28. the real question for me is -

would you vote for Hillary if she is the Dem nominee?

[ThatBozGuy]

33. I might but I have to be honest it would be because shes the best republican in the race.

I apologize if that offends anyone but I have identified her more in my old party than the one she was slated in. I mean honestly she has been hawkish preemptive stance for our military and pro corporation for a number of industries. She fought for people no question but it was and is always in a trickle down method of economics fight to give the corporation more so you can extract more for a niche group.

That trickle down has not worked for Joe Middle Guy, has it succeeded for some of the poorest absolutely.

But it seems to me that Ms Clinton has one major draw back and contrast that makes me choose Mr Obama, and be sure this is pretty indicative of most career politicians, the stance that someone knows what is best for me intrinsically more than I know myself.

Thats what has given me trouble with the Democratic party before. The aspect of the welfare state. Take from the rich give to the poor.

This is the equal and opposite of the other extreme give to the rich and they will give to the poor, neither of these works and the see saw continues and the politics of condescension becomes a handout instead of a handup. Force the haves to take care of the havenots.

Mr Obama has from day one of my exposure to him has spoken to the handup not the handout implicit in the American way being centered around the greater common good, freedoms of all humans to be equal and that the only way to change your circumstances are to control and work with what you can as the options in front of you. This has not come by the process of increasing handouts but increasing options for you to earn your way up the American dream.

Thats some pretty ethereal stuff, but it is a consistent contrast that Mr Obama has shown to aspire to long before he was going into this campaign and best is summed up best by a quote of an individual that had alot of the same views on America and the Greater Common Good that we all share.

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country" Indeed

Ms Clinton is a great politician who has fought hard in a system to take from one group and give to another. That not what America needs as a generalization. They need more options not more handouts.

So I guess my answer is no I do not see myself voting for Ms Clinton if she wee to win the nomination.

[bigtree]

40. that's utter crap about Clinton.

On one hand you identify her as a republican, then you identify her with what you call 'the welfare state'. You can't have it both ways. Besides, in this forum, all of the adjectives you've used are no substitute for examples and proof. Otherwise you're just another slick, bashing away without giving an inkling that you know what the hell you're talking about.

[droidamus2]

55. Not always black and white

Though I agree with you that giving somebody a hand up is better than giving them a hand out I think this view is indicative of a problem with the political discourse in this country. Everything seems to get couched in terms of black and white. In this case, you have the 'haves' and the 'have nots' pitted against each other. To me the world is mostly gray. Lets put aside the 'haves' for now and look at the gray view of the 'have nots'. Many in the later group could just use a hand up ie help paying for an education, health care, purchasing a home (handup). Another segment of that group at anytime may need help just staying afloat until their situation is stable enough that a handup will really help them (handout/handup). A third group is the one that is too far down to take advantage of a handup or unable to use a handup for them a handout may be the only solution. This country seems to think that every person will fit nicely into the capitalist system. I don't think that is true. For one reason or another such as disablity some people may never make a go of it in that system. We can't just ignore them and yes sometimes we will have to help them with direct assistance (welfare, food stamps). By giving everybody a shot at the 'handup' approach hopefully we can make the handout group as small as possible. I think Obama has the right idea that we should concentrate on what brings us together rather than what divides us. The old Reagan idea of a 'rising tide' helps everybody (supply side)doesn't work unless we are all on the same boat. If you are in a yacht and I am in an inflatable with a hole in it the 'rising tide' is not going to have the same effect on both of us. The conservative idea is survival of the fittest, I have mine what's your problem, everybody for themselves with no social responsibility. Hopefully Mr. Obama can help change the view of this country to one where people believe it is their social responsibility to make sure this country works for everybody even if it means they have to give some to make it happen. End of rant!

[Daemonaquila]

59. That's reasonable

I disagree with you about the reasons for not voting for Clinton, but don't I'll stand with you and take the flames for refusing to vote for her in the general election. The "You have to vote for X for the sake of party unity," whine is a load of crap. A bad candidate is a bad candidate, and staying home or writing in "Mickey Mouse" or whatever one prefers to make that statement is entirely legitimate.

I'd urge you to look more into the economics of what you call the "Welfare state." There are precious few "handouts" in the U.S. that are more than a basic nod toward keeping people in the position of being ABLE to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. A good example is SSI. You have a family member who hasn't been working for whatever reason (often minors or people with long term illnesses), other family members can't afford to get that person health coverage, that person is effectively uninsurable anyway because of preexisting conditions, and a family member(s) who might otherwise be able to go out and work is stuck at home part time or full time caring for the disabled person. With appropriate health care or support, that person might be able to get better and get back into the work force, and the caregiver would be able to do the same, at least to a greater extent. With SSI that becomes possible, and both people AND SOCIETY benefit. One, possibly both, of those folks start paying into the system and "paying for others" in the same mess. (I disagree with that part of the analysis, but I don't feel like running that one through at the moment.) The sick person is not having to go for extremely expensive emergency-only care at overcrowded ERs, at high cost to taxpayers. They are not living on the street or getting worse, falling away from ever being able to get themselves back into the work force. What makes more sense - giving these folks a chance to get going, for a while, or letting them fall so far that they'll always be dependent on their fellow citizens?

Compassion is good economics and good common sense. It really disappoints me when the argument becomes "I resent any of my taxes being used to help people who can't take care of themselves." That's the 'logic' we learned on the playground when we had to give candy to someone we didn't like on our birthday.

[Debi]

64. Welcome to DU Daemonaquila

:hi:

[Mimosa]

88. Switch hitters

Sometimes I read DU threads and wonder why many posters haven't yet realised many election outcomes are decided by 'switch hitters' not party faithful voters. I have encountered few lifelong Democrats or Republicans in real life. The whole nation goes through shifts between having the Dems or the Repubs governing the nation at the administration level.

I definitely agreed with a DU poster who had pointed out that Bill Clinton's legacy was less liberal on the whole than Richard Nixon's. I perceived the Clintons as too much in bed with major corporate interests. IMO the Clintons have become as much part of the oligarchic establishment as the Bushes. I fear that the 'Republic' has already been lost and a corporate oligarchy has been ruling us.

Obama represents a real change. He is calling on regular people to resume our participation in government. I pray to God that racism does not stop him in his mission to heal. I have heard racist comments re: Obama from 'regular people' who I know to be longtime Democrats. Fortunately they are older people, mainly older women. We need the young who don't seem to have the same degree of racial fears and prejudice! America needs Obama and we all to participate in the civic life once again.I haven't felt idealistic in a long time. It feels good to toss away cynicism and doubt. Doing so reinvigorates one's capacity to think, plan and feel joy.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

52. Oh jesus, quit with the litmus test bullshit

There are a lot of people out there that vote for whom they consider the best candidate and don't take in to account the R or D attached to their name. Forcing an ideological litmus test on someone who is obviously testing the waters of the Democratic party is not a positive thing to do. Forcing that point will only drive potential converts away and back into the arms of the war mongering shitheel republics.

How about: would YOU vote for McCain if he were a Democrat?

[paulk]

58. the litmus test IS (R) and (D)

it's the party that gets legislation passed, not the president.

ps - there's nothing "obvious" about the OP, btw. I have no reason to believe a single word of what he (or she?) posts.

If the person is sincere (which I doubt) then their "conversion" should be to the ideology of a particular party, not to an individual. Especially when you see the contradictions in their response to me (which "bigtree" so ably points out).


ps - yes, I would vote for McCain if he were the Democratic nominee. Why? Because it's not just the president you're voting for. You're voting for a political philosophy, you're voting for the court appointments, you're voting for the heads of agencies all through the federal government, you're voting for sec of defence, atty general, sec of state, and all the other cabinet positions.

[Mimosa]

89. Litmus Test, are you for REAL?

Parties themselves change and even 'morph' over a period of decades. Growing up in the deep south in the 1950s and early 60s, I can tell you that in the South then, being a liberal Republican (I was a kid, so I wasn't) was a more advanced progressive option than being a segregationist mainstream Democrat. Republicans were more racially liberal in the first half of the 20th century.

Anyhow, Litmus test, for most voters political orientation is far more fluid than sexual orientation. LOL!

I said earlier, and ask you to consider the following thoughts:

Sometimes I read DU threads and wonder why many posters haven't yet realised many election outcomes are decided by 'switch hitters' not party faithful voters. I have encountered few lifelong Democrats or Republicans in real life. The whole nation goes through shifts between having the Dems or the Repubs governing the nation at the administration level.

I definitely agreed with a DU poster who had pointed out that Bill Clinton's legacy was less liberal on the whole than Richard Nixon's. I perceived the Clintons as too much in bed with major corporate interests. IMO the Clintons have become as much part of the oligarchic establishment as the Bushes. I fear that the 'Republic' has already been lost and a corporate oligarchy has been ruling us.

Obama represents a real change. He is calling on regular people to resume our participation in government. I pray to God that racism does not stop him in his mission to heal. I have heard racist comments re: Obama from 'regular people' who I know to be longtime Democrats. Fortunately they are older people, mainly older women. We need the young who don't seem to have the same degree of racial fears and prejudice! America needs Obama and we all to participate in the civic life once again.I haven't felt idealistic in a long time. It feels good to toss away cynicism and doubt. Doing so reinvigorates one's capacity to think, plan and feel joy.

[paulk]

92. for REAL

did you even read what I posted?

When you're voting for the President you ARE voting for the party.

You're voting for all the political appointments a President makes - and there is going to be a huge ideological difference there.


The idea that Nixon's presidency was more liberal than Clinton's is a pile of crap. The rest of your post sounds exactly like some kind of religious rant and is exactly the reason why I don't support Obama's candidacy.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. Cool deal.

Welcome to the "other" side. One that believes in more than war, money and power. :hi:

[flpoljunkie]

11. Welcome to DU. Thanks for your well reasoned support of Barack Obama.

[KLee]

12. Welcome to DU!

Thank you for your support of Obama, it's hard not to support him when he embodies everything of American Democracy and the American Dream. He is a unifier, that can bring our country forward out of the depths of despair. GW has sent our Country on a path of destruction for Democracy. I will never forgive him for that. I want to get America back for our children's future. I really believe that Barack can not only unify our country, but help repair the damage that's been done with our Allies and the people of their country.

[CountAllVotes]

13. your prediction came true

Wow, you were right! Awesome!

Great post and Welcome to the DU!!! :hi:

[DaveJ]

14. Whatever... I hope you realize

When Obama is elected, Hillary, Kerry, Gore, and possible other Democrats who you've voted against in the past will play important roles in the political landscape.

I'm not sure why you'd vote for McCain under and circumstances, but I'm glad to hear you're not a Republican wingnut, at any rate.

I hope you enjoy California. I used to live in Silicon Valley. Don't work too hard.

[ThatBozGuy]

27. I do realize it, as Im sure do many of the other republicans in my position

Ms Clinton is a very talented politician, there are many such people in the Democratic party as well as the Republican party. One of the things that attracted me to Mr Obama is that he is correct in his stance that there is more common ground then not between people of all parties Democrat, Republican or other.

The extremes of all groups are very vocal, but for the most part those are the minority and the things that make us different get slammed into our faces making them to be more representative and as a species that has survived by the its very nature by its ability to recognize differences and take advantage of that, these minorities appeal to our baser animal instincts, hence the reason its usually these differences are trumpeted by chest thumping, territorial screeching and pissing contests.

The United States agreement that we all have is that We The People are stronger in our common good. Somewhere that got lost because of this screeching. Its time to stop screeching. All candidates I have seen to date say they will fight for us, screech louder for some and give some of us what we need.

I dont need a fighter I need a framer that can talk to me and get me to agree whats good for us without me being a knuckle thumper.

Mr Obama is a framer not a fighter.

California is a very good fit for myself and my wife. Im kind of burly guy, works well for my work, but at a bus stop in Ohio I had a casual conversation, as happens when you have time to kill, I was asked "Hey man what kinda of bike do you ride" Same circumstances here in California "Hey man what programming languages do you use" Just a different world.

[corkhead]

15. Welcome to DU, don't let our food fight get you down, things will calm down in a week or so.

[housewolf]

17. Welcome to DU

It is a joy to see that Sen. Obama is reaching those such as you. I'd love to hear what about his campaign particularly resonates with you.

:toast:

[Yael]

18. Thanks for making this its own thread so more people see it

K&R

[sellitman]

19. Welcome

I have a feeling the bushes are responsible for more New Democrats than even Obama is.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

20. I would bet money on it. n/t

[K Gardner]

23. Welcome and salutations, most honorable BozGuy. Hope to have you around for a long time !

[Bluerthanblue]

24. Yeah? Well tell that Republican ...

... to look again.
:P

Ugly is as ugly does.

Thanks for this honest, encouraging post.

I agree with you about the coattails- America is yearning for less fighting- and more framing.


Welcome to DU :hi:


Talk kindly to yourself, it begins within-

peace~

[anonymous171]

25. Thank you for your support!

[JeffR]

26. Good on ya, Boz

:toast:

[PassingFair]

29. You are not alone...

A guy I work with has voted independently,
leaning Republican for all of his life. He voted
for Bushes I and II.

We had to work on a project together last week,
and on day 4 he told me that he was voting for
Obama in the general election, because he
believes WAR & ENERGRY BASED Republican scams
are TANKING OUR ECONOMY.

This was without prompting or any input from me....

[Omega3]

30. I know somebody at work who votes Independent for his whole life and he told me he's voting for

Hillary because she battle tested and tough enough to take on the Washington insiders. He's sick of the republican games.

[PassingFair]

31. Let's hope that purple SOUTHERNERS are feeling like ...

these guys are!

If so, we're going to have one hell of
an election in November.

One for the record books!

[ClayZ]

32. Welcome to DU! Yay! K and R

[motocicleta]

34. I don't buy it.

Your whole schtick doesn't add up when read. You may be completely truthful, but something about it doesn't ring true. Part of it is that we have had a bunch of these posts here lately, which makes me suspicious that there is a concerted effort to sell a certain image.


We'll see. You may be totally legit, and I am no HRC supporter, but I have a bad feeling the "hope for change" constituency is being sold a bill of goods right now.

[idovoodoo]

67. You wrote exactly what I thought when I read the OP.

It's all just a little too convenient not to mention borderline worshipful...

[blogslut]

35. Welcome to the Democratic Party

I look forward to your posts. :hi:

[caligirl]

36. We live in Sili Valley, just over the hill. Have the same NAFTA issues with

the Senator from India, her taking money from those interests at the very time this town was being shipped lock stock and barrel to India, China etc. A person making a good living suddenly can't afford his car or his mortgate, or his kids college ed.

[quakerboy]

37. welcome.

the waters fine

[ForeignSpectator]

38. So BozGuy, what is there left that would draw you back to the republicans, other than the fear of a

welfare state where "it is taken from the rich and given to the poor"?

Oh and welcome :hi:

PS : and what programming languages DO you use?

[BearSquirrel2]

69. Worst question ...

That is the worst question. A good question is ... how many compilers have you written??

Without sound understanding of computer language structure, you'll always just be a code monkey. Understanding structure will allow you to function in any language with a cheat sheet as the compiler will point out your errors.

[ForeignSpectator]

93. Nerd alert!

Hey, just kidding! Never wrote a compiler but I am confident though I could if I wanted to. There's just no fun in it, there is lots of it in 3D graphics... what is your field?

[bigtree]

39. the Obama 'ground game' looks good in the Democratic primary

And his 'movement' comprises just over half of those who've voted in our primary. The other 10 million or so are caught up in the other 'movement' which Hillary Clinton's campaign represents.

I would, however, commend you on your recognition of the 'movement' that our party represents, as a whole. It's mostly a rejection of the republican politics, led by the Bush White House. And, it's also a reflection of a general longing for a change in course in Iraq and in other important initiatives like health care, energy costs, immigration issues. That longing for change is what is drawing folks to our Democratic party.

But, I don't believe that Democrats voting are going to be satisfied with the same half-assed promises of the centrists that, somehow, republican proposals and initiatives can be reconciled with Democratic ones and molded into some grand step forward. I continue to believe that most republican proposals are mere attempts to interfere with and stymie Democratic efforts by feigning concern and offering legislation which sounds like progressive change, but, is often a step backward, like NCLB. The Energy bills which republicans have advanced (with some Democratic help) are prime examples of deceptive proposals which intend to provide the facade of progress or reform, and actually stand in the way of results or accountability, like the Roadless Rule, and the alternative energy proposals held hostage to industry giveaways and loopholes which allow polluters to bargain to keep polluting.

I welcome voters who have voted republican in the past. I don't think our nominee will win the presidency unless they manage to gain the votes of a sizable number of folks who identify themselves as you have. But, personally, I have no interest in most all of the republican proposals or initiatives which have come from the bunch in Washington right now. I don't know how anyone, in good conscience could have sent some of these cretins back there as their legislators.

So, It's nice to have the support, but I will press for our president, if it is a Democrat, to reject the republicanism which has characterized the rule in Washington for almost a decade and work to institute our Democratic values and principles into action and law.

[sendero]

41. Whether you are real..

... or just another accomplished BSer (DU is flooded with them now, they will leave next week), welcome to DU.

I am particularly happy to see an (ostensible) Republican see the light. I was a Reagan Republican until about 1985, when it dawned on me almost in an instant that pretty much every criticism the left leveled at Reagan was true, and pretty much every praise the right heaped on him based in falsehood.

I've never looked back, somewhat embarassed that I was fooled for so long but figuring better late than never.

There is no way that anyone who REALLY believes in what Conservatism REALLY is could support what Bush has done. The ones that are REAL Conservatives have to be disillusioned with their party, which has been pretty much wrong at every turn for almost 8 years.

I read the other day that Bush thinks it will take 50 years for Americans to understand his great presidency. No, it will take 10 for him to be the new Nixon.

[davidpdx]

42. Interesting, I personally don't see the harm in Republicans voting for Obama

But I know many people are upset that Republicans are voting in the primary. I would hope most of those voting for Obama would be encouraged to change their party affilation. There are a lot of Republicans who after 7 years of Bush are sick and tired of what is happening. To simply say, "well go vote for McCain" seem to me like saying, "even if you were a Democrat in the past, we don't give a damn".

[Debi]

66. Welcome to DU davidpdx

:hi:

[intaglio]

43. Thanks Boz

Welcome

[fight4my3sons]

44. welcome to DU Boz

[cooolandrew]

45. Yep, if trade didn't concern Barack he wouldn't of worked as a community organiser withworkers.

[thevoiceofreason]

46. Welcome to DU

I reformed years and years ago. Everyone has there own personal journey and story.

[LiberalAndProud]

47. So

you voted for Bush, Sr., Dole, Bush Jr., Bush Jr.
:spank:

Would you consider yourself a Reagan Republican?

WELCOME HOME!!!
:hug:

[kentuck]

48. I got a feeling...

There are many Republicans looking in the mirror and do not like what they see. Also, I believe these pollsters may be overlooking these "Republican" voters in their polls. I would guess that it might add 3-5% to Obama's total? Just a hunch. However, I would not call you a Republican voter. I would call you an American voter.

[geiger]

49. I think he is bringing a type of thoughtfulness into this campaign that is giving people pause

and nurturing real reflection and consideration of fundamental issues of democracy and economy. A sea change in thinking is taking place, and it seems to me a sign of genuine leadership and gentle persuasion.

[pokercat999]

50. Oh sure, NOW you want on the bandwagon, I've got one

thing to say..........welcome aboard.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

53. Welcome to DU

I enjoyed your post. This is DU at its best, reasoned explanation of issues and elections. No flaming and putting down of people. Hope you stick around for a long while, looking forward to more posts.

[democrank]

54. Welcome to DU. Boz.

Glad you`re here with us.



~PEACE~

[No Passaran]

56. Welcome to DU

How did you find us?

[557188]

57. And you'll vote Republican in everything else

I'd rather you didn't vote in the election period if you do that.

[grytpype]

60. I would say Obama is both a framing candidate AND a fighting candidate.

He's going to skewer McCain with the Iraq war issue in a way Kerry never even tried to do against Bush. And he's going to win.

[meow mix]

61. if hillary steals it with supers, ill stick around long enough to vote (against the war)

but once thats done im gone.

[BearSquirrel2]

70. Hillarie's supers are abandoning her ...

Hillary's Super Delegates are slowly abandoning her as her air of inevitability is obviously gone now. In fact, she's in a pretty deep whole. Expect the Super Delegates to follow their constituencies as they have no desire to face Obama challengers in primary elections next time around.

[Debi]

62. Welcome to DU ThatBozGuy

Hope to see more D votes in your future :hi:

[OwnedByFerrets]

63. Welcome!!!

[grantcart]

65. k and r

[BearSquirrel2]

68. Don't forget WTO ...

Don't forget WTO which probably has had an even greater effect on manufacturing jobs going to China.

It's time we scrapped free trade and go to a "self sufficiency" model. That is, we will strive to be as self sufficient as possible.

[K8-EEE]

71. Hurray for you!!! Hope there's many many more like you....

President McCain is just a scary, scary thought....as was President Bush.

Unending war for profit of a few....it will drive us right over the cliff.

My biggest fear is it's too late to put on the brakes from the BushCo cliff race, and nothing will be able to stop our downhill Empire slide, no matter how good the intentions, but I will err on the side of hope. Gobama.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

72. Welcome to DU, Boz

thanks for your observations. I'm hoping other Republicans feel the same way. We need a break from the same old same old, that's for sure. This is why it is also important to look at races down the ticket--will your Congressperson and Senators be a help or a hindrance to getting something done in Washington? If a help, then support them however you can.

[casus belli]

73. Welcome! n/t

[RainDog]

74. Hi - and a few questions

you said:

Thats what has given me trouble with the Democratic party before. The aspect of the welfare state. Take from the rich give to the poor.

This is the equal and opposite of the other extreme give to the rich and they will give to the poor, neither of these works and the see saw continues and the politics of condescension becomes a handout instead of a hand up. Force the haves to take care of the havenots.

I do not understand your last sentence. You think that those who have done nothing to earn any wealth - like George W., handed a silver spoon to dig a grave for all of us, deserves to be a "have" while someone who works his or her ass off to better his/her changes of success w/o the absolute guarantee of a sugar daddy to fall back on is taking something from the Georges of this nation? Paris Hilton?

What better examples of the reason for the inheritance tax. They did nothing to earn this money. Why shouldn't they contribute to the general welfare by paying taxes. The lie from the republicans is that tax trickles down to the middle class. This is a lie. Another republican scare tactic.

The general welfare... where does that phrase come from? oh yeah

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Princeton did a study not too long ago that noted that EVERY democratic administration has been better for the economy than ANY republican administration. The study also accounted for the spin that dems were benefiting from repuke policies... and found this is more bullshit. The only people who do better with a republican administration are the top 10% of the economy. So that means 90% of Americans have more opportunities to improve their lives and their earning power under democrats. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt you are in that top 10%. You can find this study online, btw. Google it.

So why do you (or maybe did you) support policies that are not in your interest?

Why do you promote economic policies that are designed to make you part of the peasant class? I've never understood this aspect of republican supporters who vote against their own self-interest. I thought that was the mantra of capitalism. Is the system broken because you haven't voted in your economic self-interest?

What makes you think that you are not getting a "handout" when you get to take a deduction for mortgage interest? Why is this a long-standing handout, btw? Because it promotes a middle class. Why promote a middle class? Because a middle class is the greatest demographic predictor of a successful democracy.
So why do republicans hate democracy, since they try to hurt the middle class with their tax policies?

Do you know that Milton Friedman economics has created catastrophe where ever it has been instituted? That was the real "shock and awe." Amazing that the Bush administration brought in cheap labor, immigrants brought in by Halliburton, to cut the cost of labor... just like they do here... and again hurt the middle class. In the case of Iraq, they made riots and an insurgency inevitable... when huge amts. of the population do not have jobs... do you think they want to give flowers to the assholes who are only interested in negotiating a deal to get oil from Iraq for Gr. Brit and the U.S.?

I am really, really, really sick of the republican lie that the dems are a handout while they are a hand up. If you're Halliburton, yes, the treasury is a piggy bank to break and rob... and that's exactly what has happened. They use fear, and have for decades, to make you support them. Read up on the fall of the Soviet Union. Read up on the predictions, in the 1970s, that the USSR would fall b/c of its own internal contradictions -i.e. an educated populace in a totalitarian system. when any dictator takes power, over and over again, he kills, jails or banishes the intellectuals. Why? Because they can speak sense rather than fear.

some interesting reading and viewing: Emmanuel Todd - After the Fall (the USSR) and After the Empire (the U.S.). And watch "The Power of Nightmares" on Goggle video and ask yourself why Rummy, Wolfie, Cheney, etc. have been wrong over and over and over again... and yet they are still allowed to create policy for republicans. makes no sense to me, but I'm not a republican.

anyway, I hope you have been able to see that it is not in your interest to EVER vote for a Republican. Tell your friends about this economic data. Get the Princeton report and give it to friends. Then maybe talk about why the TV news doesn't report this over and over when any republican makes a claim about their economy acumen. Ask yourselves how can you and your friends defend yourself for voting to make yourself financial serfs to your republican "overlords."

If you really care about democracy, you will never vote for a republican. that's the truth... based upon fact, not bullshit.

[fascisthunter]

75. Welcome Boz

help us build integrity in this party of ours. What I want for the democratic party is honesty, integrity and a dedication to "We the People". Politics should never over-ride the will of the people. Once a political party decides to place their political strategies over the will of the people, they forfeit their main purpose and allegiance to the voters who placed them in power. Help us!

[OnionPatch]

76. Welcome and thanks for

telling us your story.

I especially enjoy it, because I know several conservatives who are voting for Obama and their reasons are very similar to yours.

I think with Obama as our president and more people like you on board, there is hope that we can start to rise above the partisan squabbling and truly turn our country onto a better path.

I hope you stick around. We need your perspective.

[IowaGirl]

77. Hope there's more of you Republicans.....

coming over to our side. We need all the help we can get to get this country back to something good for everybody. Welcome...:hi:

[Stand and Fight]

78. Oh boy.... n/t

[Wapsie B]

79. As a former hardcore goper myself welcome!

I voted for Ronnie once but Iran-Contra did it for me. It made me really question what the modern gop is about and I did not like what I saw, not one bit.

[Sonnenschein]

80. Even Newt Gingerich has nothing but nices words about Hillary.

[denem]

85. Rove wants in too

all the way to the convention.

[Jacobin]

81. Welcome

This is a wonderful story.

I think that Obama is 'giving us permission' to hope, as it were.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

82. Amazing how Frist, Gingrich and Delay praise Hillary's abilites!...repukes can say nice things

[niceypoo]

83. The republicans at my work are afraid of Obama

They have some bizarre theories about Obamas 'hope' slogan which I could detail, but they are so pathetic I wont waste my time on them again today.

This whole notion that republicans will flock to Obama for some vague unexplained reason is basically a huge lump of bullshit. Even Bill Clinton got 15% of the republican vote in 96, which was about the peak time of Clinton hating. He didnt try to pretend it was a 'movement'.

Republicans dont do unity, they have proven it time and again, yet the gullible keep falling for it, go figure.

[crim son]

86. No flames from me.

I know more than a couple life-long republicans who have either changed their party affiliation or at least recognized that what passes for conservative these days is very scary, indeed. Welcome to the fold & welcome to DU.

[Historic NY]

87. Welcome aboard...n/t

[surfermaw]

90. I spoke with a hard shell republican in North Caroling

She said she was going to vote democratic, she went on to say that if she voted for McCain, she could see both her son in army green.. I didn't push my luck further I don't know which candidate she would vote for.

[ekwhite]

91. Welcome to DU!

Thanks for the thoughtful post. :hi:

[BringBigDogBack]

94. Good post.

:thumbsup: