Cleaver on MSNBS (just now)

[Bad Thoughts]

Was it my imagination, or was there a surprising lack of detail in Cleaver's charges (that superdelegates are being threatened to change allegiance)? Even he couldn't clearly say he had been threatened. Maybe I missed something (I was in and out of the room), but ... . Can someone clarify, please?

[TwilightGardener]

1. Ward Cleaver?

[Paulie]

2. Ginsu Cleaver

never needs to be sharpened

[TwilightGardener]

4. Ha!

[Bad Thoughts]

6. Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver, D-MO n/t

[hogwyld]

3. Leave it to Beaver n/t

[TexasObserver]

5. CLEAVER, written by the late Christopher Moltisanti

[grantcart]

11. you so bad

[TexasObserver]

31. Don't make me hold your nose, like Tony did his!!

I loved the Sopranos, but that scene I mentioned showed what a cold sociopath Tony really was.

[MagsDem]

7. How can BO supporters deny that when....

They have been part and parcel of the movement to make it happen? It's been all over DU -- put pressure on the supers to vote for Obama!!! Why? Super delegates have the right to vote for whomever they please. That has been the rule for decades. Why do you want special rules just for Obama? But then to act indigent when people say the tactics you encouraged are not kosher is just ridiculous.

[Jersey Devil]

12. I've never seen "indigent" and "kosher" together in the same sentence before

Just sayin'

[MagsDem]

16. "Just sayin" what?

You have no response to the rethung like tactics on display by Obamabots? That's what it looks like.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. .

:spray:

That one went zoom over its author's head...

I always get indignant when that happens.

[JimGinPA]

8. Yeah, She Asked Him If He Had Been Threatened He Said "No"

He's just a Hill Shill.

[MagsDem]

13. Harrassment and attempts at intimidation

I'm glad most of the supers are offended by it -- they should be. Reminds me of Bushbot tactics the likes of which we saw down in FL in 2000. This from the supporters of a man who claims he is going to "change" politics. More like the is encouraging democrats to act like the same kind of thugs we see in the republican party.

[leftofcool]

9. They have been trying to keep this as quiet as possible

[grantcart]

17. nothing quiet about it - people in their districts are pissed and are

organizing primary challengers to take these sell outs out of office. The threats of violence have been exaggerated but the political payback is not. The criticism is not that they support Hillary, but that these guys supported Hillary in OCT last year and never gave a brother a chance. They rejected Obama before he had a chance to show what he could do. That reminds them of the same kind of shit they face every day and the folks are pissed.

[MagsDem]

22. Maybe they just think HRC is the better candidate

And that is their choice to make. I'm glad to see the harassment and intimidation backfiring. People should never give in to those kind of thuggish behaviors.

[Hieronymus]

10. No, I don't think you missed anything. Cleaver was using Hillary talking ....

points...fear mongering.

[MagsDem]

14. Saying you are being harrassed is fear mongering?

How so? Please do explain.

[thevoiceofreason]

20. What they are saying is: Where is the eveidence?

[MagsDem]

27. The evidence is the people get harassed telling you they

... are being harassed.

[leftynyc]

34. Where is the evidence

that Hillary's campaign is behind that photo that has everyone's knickers in a knot? Nobody has evidence of anything but people are blaming the opposite campaign anyway.

[MagsDem]

41. Don't ignore the evidence and then say it doesn't exist

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/blackwomen/2008/02/29/Color-Of-Change-Answers-Questions-About-Super-Delegates-and-Black-Political-Involvement

[leftynyc]

45. I can't do streaming video on this

computer. Care to elaborate?

[MagsDem]

52. People with reps in the CBC....

... "should hold their representatives accountable." Followed by a caller that demands they not only do that, but call Clinton's office and demand she drop out.

Now it wouldn't surprise me a bit if every BO supporter on this board insisted that there is "no evidence" if one hundred people lined up at a mic and described how they have been harassed. So spare me. It's like convincing a Bushbot he didn't really lie about WMD.

[Hieronymus]

23. Cleaver didn't say that HE was being harassed. He had no evidence.

[MagsDem]

28. LOL -- did you expect him to record the calls or what?

Evidence:

1. You have web sites and emails being sent out encouraging people to call supers and DEMAND they vote for Obama.

2. Supers are telling you its happening.

What additional evidence is required? That would certainly be pretty sufficient in a court of law.

[Jane Austin]

15. I don't calll that fear-mongering.

I call that a smear.

He didn't have a single thing to back up his ridiculous charge.

[MagsDem]

18. LOL - no nothing to back up the charge

Nothing except what you damn well know to be true since you see the attack dogs on DU everyday. It's not credible for BO supporters to say what he chargeed cannot be happening since you well know their are campaigns by BO supporters to harrass and intimidate super delegates. Hell, I get them in my email "call so and so and DEMAND that your super delegates support Obama."

[ClassWarrior]

26. Speaking of backing up one's charge... You get emails from WHOM, exactly...

...telling you to call and demand superdelegate support? I'd seriously like to know.

NGU.

[MagsDem]

29. Let me stroll through my junk folder....

Move On, DFA, Color of Change

I'm sure there are others.

[ClassWarrior]

32. Links? Quotes? More than just random names pulled out of the air?

NGU.

[MagsDem]

37. Well I'm not going to post my email, but you can do a google search

It's not particularly hard. In fact, I dare say you could have done so in the time it took you to write a post accusing me of lying:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/votersdecide

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/moveon_jumps_into_battle_over.php

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/blackwomen/2008/02/29/Color-Of-Change-Answers-Questions-About-Super-Delegates-and-Black-Political-Involvement

[ClassWarrior]

43. You DID lie. You said the emails you received...

...urged recipents to "call so and so and DEMAND that your super delegates support Obama."

But according to the links you listed (at least the two that I could get open), these campaigns asked people to demand that the superdelegates support the will of the people.

:shrug:

NGU.

[MagsDem]

48. Yeah, right

You have no evidence whatsoever to accuse me of lying. Cleaver is lying, John Lewis is lying. Everyone is lying -- right.

[Jane Austin]

30. I can't imagine of an Obama supporter who gets more emails

from the national and state campaign, and I've never received such a thing.

Communications from the campaigns are unfailingly positive.

Obama has no need for desperation tactics.

[MagsDem]

38. I wish I didn't, believe me, but it's silly to deny they are

sending them. Just go look at the web sites.

[Jane Austin]

40. Are you offering links to websites

with threats?

Thanks.

[MagsDem]

44. Well the radio show encourages harassment and intimidation

But why would it surprise you that if groups tell people to call, and then you find out that they are harassing people?

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/blackwomen/2008/02/29/Color-Of-Change-Answers-Questions-About-Super-Delegates-and-Black-Political-Involvement

[Jane Austin]

47. I see you've changed the subject from your previous claim.

I see.

[MagsDem]

49. I'm saying there is AMPLE evidence of many varities

of people calling for people to inundate supers with calls and harass them into voting for Obama.

[Bad Thoughts]

19. I would take such a charge seriously

But Cleaver implied that Lewis had been harassed, saying that there was no other explanation than he (Cleaver) could not believe he would shift allegiance. Lewis--a hero of the civil rights movement--intimidated? I'm sorry, but I think such a man would be scared of nothing, certainly now that he is a man of political stature, capable of using the government to protect him.

[MagsDem]

25. It's pretty well known Lewis was harassed

I don't know if he was scared. I would agree he isn't the type to scare off. I just think he got tired of being called names and bullied, and he caved. Apparently it was quite a nasty onslaught, most of it directed toward his staff that was taking the calls. I think, with these stories, the harassment will cease to be effective. Let's hope so.

In any case, just another reason I would never vote for Obama.

[goclark]

46. He was not harassed, he was informed that there would

be another up and coming candidate that would be running for his seat in the next election.

I have a friend that lives in Georgia and that's what he told me.

That's politics~ if the person that you elected does not meet your expectations,run someone else.

Now, IF the person that runs against him(and I love John Lewis) decides after the Primaries that he won't run, and if Obama just happens to win in the Primaries ~ that's politics.

That is not harassment, that is a basic right in America.

John Lewis Marched bravely for VOTING RIGHTS and he should be proud that his constituency has learned how to follow the rules.

As I recall John Lewis said that Hillary Clinton had been a long time friend. That's great!

But HC did not put him in office ~ his community put him in office and they are his REAL FRIENDS or he would not be in Congress today.

[MagsDem]

50. He caved to harassment -- bottom line

[AtomicKitten]

24. It was all innuendo and no specifics, no solid evidence. Nada. Just a broad-brush smear tactic.

[MagsDem]

33. No evidence?

Let's see, you have groups like Move On, DFA, and Color of Change encouraging people to do it, sending emails to people with the reps numbers, AND then you have reps saying they are getting harassed with calls, and that's not evidence?

Sorry, but you people remind me of the rethugs I have spent my life working against. The tactics are so disgusting, so unlike the democratic values this party USED to have. It's sad.

[AtomicKitten]

54. Please produce the evidence of threats. Thanks.

[MadBadger]

35. He himself had seen no evidence...he had just heard.

[MagsDem]

39. Call John Lewis' office and ask a staffer

Case closed.

[jackson_dem]

36. Are we talking about formal threats from Jesse Jackson Jr. or the "vote for Obama or die" calls?

The latter are believable. Obamanation gave death threats to Tavis Smiley and harassed his mom because he uttered a criticism of St. Obama so what do you think they are doing to superdelegates who may decide this nomination?

[MadHound]

42. It wouldn't surprise me if Cleaver wasn't making this up out of thin air

Cleavers' a good rep for his part of the state, but sometimes his loyalties outweigh his good common sense. I think that this is one of those times, he's been a Clinton ally for a long, long while, and would do anything and everything, including lie, cheat or steal, in order to help them out.

[MagsDem]

51. He's hardly the only one saying it

But yeah, everyone is lying.

[MadHound]

53. Who else? Got any links to anything others have said about this?

As for as Cleaver goes, I live in the same state he does, and many interesting things have circulated about how the man operates, not all of them good. I'm much more inclined to trust my sources than some anonymous, partisan poster such as yourself.