I've went from "never vote for Hillary" to considering an Obama/Clinton ticket might be good..

[Bread and Circus]

Something deep down tells me that Hillary Clinton is better than the people she has surrounded herself with, her husband included. From her bad campaign use of money to her erratic behavior of late, it's apparent it comes from too many bad elements pulling her in too many bad directions. Her stupid votes, like her IWR vote, her cluster bomb vote, and her Kyl-Lieberman vote, are more likely than not from whispers in her ear. Whispers that she needs to rid herself of. Somewhere inside all that confusion is still a brilliant person with a passion for families and children.

I am in a forgiving mood because last night she admitted, as much as she politically could, her IWR vote was a mistake. I want to start over with her.

The vehicle to set her free and perhaps set her on a Presidential course of her own would be to run as Obama's VP. It's very apparent that his campaign, a campaign of the people and a million donors strong, is the campaign of the future. It's also apparent, finally, that he's probably going to win the nomination. I think he sealed that fate with two convincing debate appearances that when it comes to the war of words, she has nothing on him.

By running as Obama's VP she can rewrite her political future and break ties with the old top down patriarchy of the party and side herself with the people. She can rid herself of Penn and Wolfson. She can rid herself of the corruption of politics that comes when it is controlled by the monied interests in Washington. She can rid herself of the notion that the politics of triangulation and "micro trends (read: pandering to that which divides us)" hold the only ways to win an election.

I also think that this would be an awesome way to build party unity. And let's be honest, she gives hope and inspiration to women. I have two small daughters, and I have to admit I think it would be pretty damn cool for them to grow up the next 8 years with Clinton prominently in the Administration.

Some will say, maybe right or wrongly so, that a unity ticket might be bad electorally and that to put an African American and a Woman on the same ticket would only raise the number of people voting against the ticket. That may be right. But I think to succumb to that thinking is to succumb to the politics of fear and to succumb to the politics of division. I reject that.

I think the only thing that should limit the possibility of an Obama/Clinton ticket would be their ability to be able to work with each other and come to an agreement of how their relationship might best work.

But why not a Clinton/Obama ticket? After all, she's older and he's got a longer window of opportunity ahead of him.

Answer: Easy. If it's a Clinton/Obama ticket, we would never get rid of the Penn's and the Wolfson's of the world. We would never get rid of the top down system controlled by selective monied special interests. The campaign of the people and for the people will have lost and the politics of micro-trends and entrenched established political interests will have won. Clinton's relationship with nefarious actors would be re-inforced instead of rejected.

Or so my theory goes.

[MoJoWorkin]

1. You forgot the Big Dog. I am sorry, I just think it would be counter-productive

to have both Clinton's trying to run Obama. Please. Let us have a clean break from the past.

[maddiejoan]

3. You won't get a clean break from the past regardless

or do you think Obama will pick some one with even less insider status than himself?

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. There's insiders and there's insiders.

Not everybody in DC is tainted by the DLC. And politicians have freed themselves of that pernicious brand of Democratic politics in the past - look at Gore, Kerry and Edwards.

I'd hesitate to accept her so long as she remains bound to the DLC.

[Bread and Circus]

4. There's a new Sherriff in town... and Obama is the new Big Dog.

The Big Dog is the one who wins elections, and that's Obama.

Bill can go back to his charity efforts (which is actually quite noble) and golfing w/ GWHBush (not quite as noble, but I don't fault Bill for looking for a father figure) :evilgrin:

I'm not saying I "must have" an Obama/Clinton ticket. I'm just pointing out the merit in it.

[maddiejoan]

2. The Older Younger thing doesn't bother me

LBJ was older than JFK --and let's face it --it's a similar dynanmic.

The difference being I actually think in reality Hillary and Obama are far more alike, and do like each other.

So --I've no problem with an Obama/Clinton ticket really --in fact, I really wouldn't be excited by an Obama ticket that didn't include Hillary.

[Yael]

5. It would send mixed messages and that is toxic to a campaign

[Bread and Circus]

7. You are right. I tried to allude to that by stating that Obama and Clinton would have to sit down...

and really talk it over whether they could work together.

The big issue would be for Clinton to jettison the bad actors in her campaign. Penn would need to take his toys and walk.

If Clinton agrees that it's time to turn the page instead of turn back the hands of time, then I think it could work.

[crispini]

6. We have to unite the party. And that would help.

I agree.

[DefenseLawyer]

11. Don't we have to win the election?

There aren't enough registered Democrats in this country to win the general election. You need those unaffiliated, "casual" voters and of course the mythical "independents". I'm not sure uniting the party while losing many of those voters in the general is a good tradeoff.

[Independent-Voter]

8. Absolutely no way this happens. HRC's toxic at this point.

[DefenseLawyer]

9. I think it is a terrible idea

No offense to Hillary, but a lot of people hate her. It is totally unjustified, but that doesn't make it any less of a reality. I'm not sure what Obama gains by putting someone with negatives as high as hers on his ticket. Not to mention the whole "sharing the spotlight" issue with the nominee and such a well known, well defined figure and her husband. Seems like a bad idea, but then I am not Bob Shrum.

[Bread and Circus]

12. I don't think people really hate her. They hate what's around her and think it's her...

I think when she allows herself to be who she is, she's maybe at her best and people have a huge capacity to forgive.

I might be all wrong but I've never felt this way about her until lately. I have empathy for her. I think she could be great if she is surrounded by the right influence.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any thing wrong if Obama were to at least talk to her personally to see if they could make it a go. The awesome thing about Obama, as an ENFJ (Myers Briggs), is that he's a consensus builder.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. No people there are a lot of people with a very negative opinion of her.

I'm not talking about Democrats or the kind of rancor we have seen around here during the primaries about Mark Penn or any of that inside baseball stuff. I mean people that don't watch the news and barely follow the issues and only vote in presidential elections. Her negatives are through the roof with those people. Many people that think of themselves as "middle of the road" (not hard core politicos, just casual voters) that find Obama intriguing and inspiring have nothing but disdain for her. I like her myself, but I still don't think you can ignore what her public persona brings to the table. I'm just not seeing the upside.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Don't be sucked in, she's electoral poison

Obama needs to go in a completely different direction or else it will be Change You Can't Beleive In.

[GodlessBiker]

18. Yes, I think people may be getting wistful about her. They want to throw her a bone.

But I don't think that any President would want Bill as the Vice-Vice-President.

Obama needs to go in a different direction.

[speedoo]

13. Two issues with that idea: trust and electability.

Trust: I can't look at Hillary and see a loyal VP. Her campaign antics over the past week or so are very telling.

Electability: I said months ago that she is not electable as a presidential candidate and her nosedive in the campaign has born out the correctness of that. She is almost certainly even less electable now, so I fail to see how any potential party unification could offset all her negatives as well as the fact that the rethugs would mount a very large turnout in opposition to a ticket that includes her.

[Harry Monroe]

15. I totally agree

Couldn't have said it better myself!!

[Whisp]

16. No, No and No.

I don't see her 'changing' on the turn of a dime. If the people advising her are doing such a crappy job, she should have called them on that from the start - but she didn't - either because she does not have the power and is a pawn or that she fully condoned the bad strategy. Neither is good for a new admin and a change of direction.

and then there's Bill. ugh.
and the uncomfortable thought that she could be in a 'Cheney' position - calling the shots and next up to the big chair if anything happened to Barack. :shudder:

too much bad water under the bridge that she herself bucketed in this fiasco.

Out, damn spot, Out!

[pageman551]

19. There Will Be Pressure to do this

But I think Obama knows this wouldn't be a smart move, because he won't be able to control Bill Clinton.
I do feel for Hillary, I think she is very smart and very capable. I just can't forgive her for the Iraq vote, which she didn't admit was a mistake until last night.




http://pagesblogofbloggings.blogspot.com/

[The Anti-Bush]

20. This is why you won't see an Obama/Clinton ticket

He will lose all the independent voters who can't stand the Clintons, and he would lose all the cross-over republicans who also can't stand the Clintons.

He will end up picking an older white male with a ton of military experience. That sews up the "experience" b.s. while also making him stronger on national security.