If David Duke endorsed Hillary and her church's magazine gave him an award...

[jackson_dem]

...what do you think Hillary's answer would have been when it was brought up at a debate? Obama really screwed up on Farrakhan. This is another example of Obama being a calculating "old politics" politician, not the refreshing new vanilla coke who will, as he says, "tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear" when he places himself upon a pedestal over all other politicians.

Disclaimer: I don't think Obama is a bigot but this Farrakhan thing only adds more fuel to the rethug radical Muslim smear.

[Bluebear]

1. Reminds me of how Obama "denounced" McClurkin.

Yet did not apologize for McClurkin's sermonizing against gays at Obama events.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. I wish... I think he "disagreed" with McClurkin

[KittyWampus]

9. oh look! It's the scab-picker

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

28. Oh look! Someone on ignore that I thought I would never have to see again!

Shame, that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

46. yep, picking scabs is easier than talking about that Iraq war vote or Hillary's tax returns

thats why this Season of Silliness has erupted.

[Bluebear]

53. So Hillary's tax returns matter more to you than GLBT sensibilities?

Marvelous.

[Jamastiene]

58. So, by admitting there is a scab, you admit to the wounds

you KNOW his McClurkin debacle caused. Interesting.

[Neshanic]

15. But Mr, B...he's dreamy!

[jackson_dem]

16. Similar but I don't think he ever "denounced" or "rejected" McClurkin

At least he did it with Farrakhan after Hillary saved him.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

43. Farrakhan never endorsed Obama, no offer was made to reject

the proper thing was to denounce Farrakhan's inappropriate views.

[EFerrari]

2. Obama tends to disengage from the pile of smear as quickly as possible.

And so far, that's working for him.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

44. You are so right. Meanwhile, I REJECT AND DENOUNCE HRC

:rofl:

[Renew Deal]

3. And there's never been an anti-Obama smear you didn't embrace.

Case in point, your OP.

[apocalypsehow]

4. I see someone's been tuning into "The Sean Hannity Show" regularly....

:eyes:

[w13rd0]

5. Were you expecting Farrakhan to endorse McCain...

...or maybe Ron paul?

[reality based]

6. Hillary actually helped Obama by giving him a second chance to "reject"

the Farrakan endorsement, which he seemed to take, although I suspect the overall impression that viewers got was of a person very reluctant, for some reason, to go that far.

[IsItJustMe]

77. Denounce vs. reject. It's beyond fricken silly.

[ingac70]

8. David Duke endorsed Ron Paul...n/t.

[jackson_dem]

11. And he endorsed Pat Buchanan in 2000

Buchanan gave a weak statement distancing himself from Duke that no one took seriously. Besides, everyone knew Duke was supporting Buchanan because he was comfortable with Buchanan's views.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

45. Buchanon complimented Obama tonight, so Obama must REJECT & DENOUNCE Buchanon

or Else, Hillary will be screaming "Shame on YOU, Barack Obama!"

[scheming daemons]

10. He diffused the issue entirely..... I denounce AND reject your characterization, jackson...

....

Only the Hannity's of the world (and desperate Hillary fans looking for SOME nugget from the debate they can use) saw that answer as anything but a complete distancing from Farrakhan.

[jackson_dem]

12. He did--after being prodded by Hillary

The moment of hesitation will haunt him, sooner or later.

[KittyWampus]

18. no, after Hillary was desperate to play gotcha. It made her look idiotic.

[smalll]

13. AND if she lived in the same neighborhood as him!

(Which is true also about Obama and Farrakhan.)

[PretzelWarrior]

14. nice strawman argument

aannnggghhh!!!! wrong answer.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

19. Did the Black Muslim ever lynch anyone?

Just asking? :shrug:

[jackson_dem]

20. So the Obamite argument is Farrakhan is less evil than Duke so it is no big deal?

That won't fly with the real world.

[FrenchieCat]

23. No. I asked you a question.

I didn't read the answer, yet.

[smalll]

22. (Self-delete)

[jackson_dem]

24. They act like a cult but then complain when folks notice it

It is scary that Obama's "movement for change" (TM David Axlerod) draws such folks...

[Bluebear]

25. An excellent post, too bad you deleted

[smalll]

27. Inadvertently responded to the OP -- it's replaced above! /nt

[AtomicKitten]

26. Who cares? This excruciating minutia kind of pettiness must make your head ache.

[jackson_dem]

30. Many people do just as many people cared about McClurkin

[AtomicKitten]

31. The fear I observe is coming from people like you just as much as those you reject.

I understand completely where you and others are coming from, but you are expecting, no, you are demanding that Obama exclude people that are assholes. That's not democracy; I hate to break it to you. The only way people are going to come together is by exposure to each other. That's how minds and hearts are changed, not organizing internets vendetta squads.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. Obama minister not only gave Farrakhan an award he went to visit Kadafi in Libia with him

[jackson_dem]

32. Was Barack a member of the church when that happened?

If so how did the "agent of change" react?

[NOLALady]

33. That's good to know.

I will not vote for the Minister.

[still_one]

42. and Obama critisized his minister for it. That does not mean it won't be used

against him, but what more could he do?

Let me give you a different analogy, do you have anyone in your family who are avid bush supporters?

I do, but what am I suppossed to do? We each know how we feel about the situation, and we don't discuss it further

[Raffi Ella]

34. I just said something similar in another thread:

If the KKK endorsed Hillary and her minister glorified the KKK as the epitome of greatness and SHE had answered the same was Obama did ALL HELL would break loose,as it rightly should.

I would also question why she belonged to such a church in the first place.But that's just me.

Yes,Obama is calculated and his concession immediately after she showed him what his answer should have been shows exactly how he would govern;He is too inexperienced to do the right thing or to hold his ground if he thinks he's right.He would be played like a violin by his 'handlers' just as Bush was when he first entered the WhiteHouse.


Beautiful moment for Hillary,very revealing one for Barack.

[jackson_dem]

35. Yup

Put on your firesuit because the Obama machine will be sending its thugs after you to enforce Obamite doctrine. How DARE you dissent! :mad:

[Raffi Ella]

37. Yes,How dare ANYONE!!!!!!!

we're just Anti-Hope - WHY do you HATE HOPE jackson_dem!#@!*& :cry:



Damn you and me both to ever lasting eternal hell for going against St.Obama!

[jackson_dem]

38. I don't know why but the one thing I can't stand is hope

I have hopeitis. Maybe you do too! Is there a cure so I can became an ex-hopeitis? Can Donnie "cure" this too?

[Raffi Ella]

39. lol,

no, donnie can only "cure" the homo's from their sinful life style.I think to be able to fall for St. Obama you need to just have faith that he CAN indeed walk on water...Wait,that's Jesus.

[jefferson_dem]

36. Never mind.

It's not worth it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

40. David Duke's supporters do not equal Farrakhan's

This is a bullshit analogy.

[jackson_dem]

47. Duke=Farrakhan

Their organizations are different in that Farrakhan's does some good but both Farrakhan and Duke are equally bigoted. Farrakahn is arguably even more dangerous because he has a much larger following than Duke. I don't see churches that include a U.S. senator as a member giving Duke an award, for instance.

[Behind the Aegis]

66. Supporters of bigots are supporters of bigots.

It really doesn't matter which bigotry they are supporting, both those men are despicable.

[still_one]

41. I don't know if he screwed up or not, but your example is not a good one

A better one would be Ann Coulter who endorsed Hillary, did she reject that endorsement?

and not because of her right wing views, but for her racist, anti-Jewish, and anti-gay remarks

just curious?

[jackson_dem]

48. Did her church give Coulter an award?

Has she been asked about Coulter?

A better example would be what Hillary would do if an anti-Semite supported her. We know what she would do because in 2000 this happened and she returned his contributions...

[still_one]

49. Jimmy Carter had a brother who made racist and anti-Jewish remarks

do you think Carter should have rejected his brother?

Bill Clinton had a colorful brother with issues also, should he have rejected his brother

Incidently, just for your information, Obama DID critisize Wright, and the award given

What more do you think he should have done?


Obama noted his disagreement with the decision to give the award to Farrakhan; his statement was praised by Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League

[jackson_dem]

52. You're comparing brothers to Farrakhan and Duke?

Apples and oranges.

[still_one]

61. duke would NEVER endorse Hillary. The reason I am using brothers

is because Wright is was Obama's minister, and friend. So I thought friend and brother are close enough, and he condemned wrights association with farrakhan. what more could he do?

Obama also condemed farrakahn's positions, including in tonight's debate. duke would NEVER endorse Hillary or Obama for that matter

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. Go back to Jackson Mississippi and asked the ones that died there

to fight for the freedom for all human beings

Mr. Jackson Democrat.

[jackson_dem]

51. Exactly. Hillary would not have hesistated and would not have used a respectful title for him

Obama was calling Farrakhan "minister Farrakhan." We know what Hillary would do because she did it in 2000.

[Ichingcarpenter]

55. Don't give me your racism awareness speech with me

I've seen your threads

And the flamewars you start.

[jackson_dem]

56. It isn't speech. It is a fact

Hillary did get support from an anti-Semite in 2000 and she quickly, unequivocally gave back the money and made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him once his views were discovered.

As to your smears, they are typical of the Obama cult doctrine enforcement police. You don't have the balls to directly call me a troll like the other doctrine enforcement officers who appeared in this thread and got their posts deleted. Here are the threads I have started over the last two days:

Myth: Hillary Clinton gave us NAFTA. Truth: DU's biggest saint and Bill did http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=97926&mesg_id=97926
Taking Offense at Edwards: Corporate Media couldn’t forgive his anti-establishment rhetoric http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2925748&mesg_id=2925748
Edwards should sign up for a Senate race
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4778610&mesg_id=4778610
Bill Clinton's record: the 90's were a time of peace, prosperity, and progress for America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4769802&mesg_id=4769802
But, but I thought Edwards was only pretending to oppose the war to become president!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4762326&mesg_id=4762326
The case for mandates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4755330&mesg_id=4755330
Casey: Obama's shortages claim plausible
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3199318
Up to 1,000 days of e-mails "missing" from White House servers, 1 million messages
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2927060

Look at all the "flamewar" threads! :sarcasm:

[Ichingcarpenter]

59. OKay dokie

The card you play is well known

You never give anything to this site
unless it is for your candidate.

Don't tell me about "cult doctrine enforcement police"
unless you are talking about yourself.

[jackson_dem]

60. Another example of the Obamite enforcers

I just listed all the threads I have posted recently yet you continue to distort on your search and destroy mission that two other Obamite doctrine enforcers already engaged in earlier in this thread.

Up to 1,000 days of e-mails "missing" from White House servers, 1 million messages
This has nothing to do with any candidate
Casey: Obama's shortages claim plausible
This is actually pro-Obama
The case for mandates
This was a thread to discuss policy. We could use more policy here...Maybe you could post some threads on policy instead of trying to police Obama's critics?
But, but I thought Edwards was only pretending to oppose the war to become president!
Edwards is no longer a candidate
Bill Clinton's record: the 90's were a time of peace, prosperity, and progress for America
Defending the last Democratic president from smears and cheap attacks. What a trollish thing to do on Democraticunderground!
Edwards should sign up for a Senate race
Edwards is no longer a presidential candidate
Taking Offense at Edwards: Corporate Media couldn’t forgive his anti-establishment rhetoric
Edwards is no longer a candidate
Myth: Hillary Clinton gave us NAFTA. Truth: DU's biggest saint and Bill did
Defending Hillary

Tally: 1 anti-rethug, 1 pro-Obama, 1 anti-Obama (this one), 1 pro-Hillary, 1 neutral and about policy, and 3 about Edwards. Can you do what your hero never does: admit you were wrong?

[Ichingcarpenter]

63. X squeeze me?

Your tally is revealing

on what you think is important.


Within the vacuum's of your mind
they reveal your emptiness.

Now, are you ready for a Dr. Phil explanation
or are you ready for a rude awaking of the list
you perceive to have any semblance of reality?

Lets go though the contradictions now.

[Jamastiene]

54. You make a very good point.

His reticence to respond to the question will cost him precious votes in the upcoming general election. There are Republicans and Independents, as well as Democrats who are against any type of hatred based on religion. Many people will find his reluctance to be troubling.

[jackson_dem]

57. It is obvious but Obamites think St. Obama can do no wrong

It is even worse in light of McClurkin. This is now the second time he has done it. It will hurt him overall but chiefly with GLBT and Jewish folks. Losing the GLBT and Jewish votes would be a big blow in what is likely to be a competitive election against McCain. Since one of Obama's main arguments is electability we need to assess the damage this will do to him with Jewish voters, a key Democratic constituency.

[jgraz]

62. Nicely played

I especially liked the "vanilla coke" reference. Very clever.

[Ichingcarpenter]

64. She should double up on the next run

I see the jack of spades but not the queen of hearts being played

in this hand.


I think she will get another ace but no face card

[jackson_dem]

65. Ah the race card

Care to back up your smear with facts? Obamites love to use the race card to stifle criticism of him. Speaking of the race card, has any prominent racist endorsed Hillary?

Vanilla coke=heavily marketed, great idea but no substance there and ultimately a failure. Obama is like that. I have also analogized him to Sanjaya by calling him the Sanjaya of politics (all style, no substance). Is that racist too? :rofl:

[Demagitator]

67. Hatred, is a powerful weapon that can be stopped....

I will be convinced Obama rejects the "hate" of the Nation of Islam -- when; I see him picketing in front of Wrights' church.

[chascarrillo]

68. Sheriff Harry Lee

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Is every Catholic responsible for Pope Benedict's homophobia?

Obama denounced Farrakhan and I'm sure you won't be seeing him at any of his campaign rallies. As Obama said, he can't stop Farrakhan from liking him. I don't see what more there is other than to have him leave his church because a former clergy member likes Farrakhan which is the equivalent of asking a catholic to leave their church because of their leader's homophobia. It's utterly ridiculous.

And for the record I'm Jewish and I think that David Duke is far more evil than Farrakhan.

[Behind the Aegis]

70. And yet...

...many people have left the "Church" because of its stance on gays (as well as women and choice). Let's put it this way, if the candidate had been a Jew, say Lieberman (sans the current 'luggage') and his synagogue published a magazine extolling its highest honor on 'Rabbi' Meir Khane, do you think that might have caused a problem? The fact is Obama is not Catholic, he belongs to a church with its own leadership. I am not saying he should leave his church because of the magazine endorsement of Farrakhan, but it is not surprising it would raise concerns with people.

Out of curiosity, why is Duke more evil than Farrakhan?

(OK mods...seriously, can "Obama" be added to the dictionary, because "Farrakhan" is already in there.)

[Hippo_Tron]

72. I don't think that anyone would expect Lieberman to stop practicing Judaism because of it

I would expect him to denounce Khane just as Obama denounced Farrakhan and the decision to honor him.

Duke is more evil than Farrakhan due to centuries of institutionalized racism in this country. The Nation of Islam is not responsible to the persecution of Jews to the extent that the KKK is responsible for the persecution of both Jews and African Americans.

When anti-semitic black supremacists come to power in this country, then we can talk about Farrakhan being on the same level as Duke.

[Behind the Aegis]

73. I have yet to hear one person request Obama stop being a Christian.

Your post was should he quit his church not his religion.

"I would expect him to denounce Khane just as Obama denounced Farrakhan and the decision to honor him." Well, we agree there.

"Duke is more evil than Farrakhan due to centuries of institutionalized racism in this country. The Nation of Islam is not responsible to the persecution of Jews to the extent that the KKK is responsible for the persecution of both Jews and African Americans."

That makes little sense. I can kind of see where you are going, but Duke is no more responsible for the institutionalized racism in this country than Farrakhan. The only difference, is Duke can make more use of it, as you indicate. However, I see Farrakhan as a bigger threat because, unlike Duke, he is taking two groups, traditionally discriminated against in the US, and turning them against one another. Both are raging bigots and both are dangerous. Neither are acceptable as an "endorsement."

[Hippo_Tron]

74. You will have to forgive my ignorance on this matter...

But I take Church and Religion to mean the same thing. I'm looking at the Trinity Church of Christ's website and while it is only one congregation, it seems like a pretty unique congregation.

I could be way off the mark here, but it seems like asking Obama to leave the Trinity Church of Christ and go practice Christianity somewhere else would be like asking a Catholic to become a Protestant or vice versa. Are there other churches that practice Christianity in a similar manner to the way that this church does?

[Demagitator]

71. Trust me....

There are ways to get people you disagree with, to not like you. Actions speak louder then words in this case. Obama, has to take action to stop the hate coming from that church to be believable, in my point of view.

[jefferson_dem]

75. Seems you are more outraged than at least one RW source - called it a "maddeningly stupid argument"

How He Won it

This exchange right here:

Have you ever seen a candidate extract himself from such a maddeningly stupid argument so adroitly? He read viewers' minds — we were all thinking, "What's the difference between 'denounce' and 'reject?'" — and made Hillary look silly for trying to create a distinction. It's this seemingly effortless ability to rise above the tedious semantics of American politics that makes Obama so difficult to attack. Even if you play better than him, he's better at mocking the game. McCain's got his work cut out for him.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTM3MGI5NGQxMjg2NDUxNzY1MmJiMDZhZTZkY2E2NWE=

[IsItJustMe]

76. I think that criticism is insane. Sorry, Obama is not god and he can't go around controlling other ...

people's speech or going around con deming ever body that disagrees with him. That's the type of game that the Republicans play all the time and it gets real old.