Leon Panetta - They had no plan

[Debi]

http://www.observer.com/2008/panettas-lament-they-had-no-plan

Go read the whole thing :hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Good article, thanks Debi!

:hi:

[City Lights]

2. K&R.

[grantcart]

3. HRC Presidential Campaign plan looks alot like Rummies Iraq plan

Think about it.

both have been around for ever, both are smart and think that they are the sharpest person around on policy. Both are terrible listners to contrarian views. Both stress loyalty in subordinates rather than competence and a free debating atmosphere.

Rumsfield put all of his planning into a quick military victory and nothing into the occupation.

Hillary put all of her eggs into Feb 5th. Afterwards she was flat broke.

Not ready for a full campaign

Not ready with a coherent winning message

Not ready with a plan on what to do with Bill

Not ready on the IWR

Not ready on how to explain your mistake on the IWR

Not ready to be competitive in caucuses.

But the day before she puts her hand on the bible she is going to get it all together and be ready for day one - now that is a fairly tale.

What went wrong = hubris goes before the fall.

[HawkerHurricane]

11. Not going to comment about Senator Clinton...

but I will comment on SecDef Rumsfeld's "Plans".

Before day one of Iraq War II, there were two plans. Call them 'Military Plan' and 'Political Plan'.

The Military Plan called for a lightning campaign, destroying any hostile military forces, forcing Saddam to surrender, die, or flee the country, and putting another dictator in his place. Then we would pull out, reminding the new "El Presidente' for life" what had happened to his predecessor would happen to him if he didn't 'behave'. It was estimated that it would take 150,000 troops six weeks.

The Political Plan called for the same initial campaign, but required a long term occupation afterwords, essentially a conquest similar to that of Nazi Germany: we take over completely, forcing all the Ba'athists to become unemployed, putting non-Ba'athists into every position of power, writing them a new constitution, holding elections, creating a new government from the ground up in our image. It was estimated that it would take a 500,000 troops five to ten years.

The Military Plan was unacceptable because it left the same people (minus the Hussien family) in charge, and left the oil fields under state control. The Political Plan was unacceptable because it would require more men and a bigger commitment than it was believed Americans would agree to. So, they attempted to carry out the Political Plan with the resources of the Military Plan, and then lied to the American people (and maybe themselves) about it.

The military top brass NEW that the plan would probably fail. A handful resigned. Rumsfeld should have known better, but this was the man whose previous experience included retreating from Vietnam...

[RonaldK]

17. what an ironic comparison

you know you are right. This teaches important life lessons as well. But for some more comparisons: the polls all had Hillary ahead, as did the Iraq War. Just as Bush thought Gulf War I was the precursor to automatic success in Iraq, Hillary thought Bill's masterful presidency gave her automatic support.

[Cha]

20. It always reminds me of rummy's and the bushites'

handling of the misbebotten war on Iraq..no plan after the initial stage of victory failed.

[DJ13]

4. OUCH...... but true

"In an interview with The Observer, Mr. Panetta compared Mrs. Clinton’s top strategist Mark Penn to Karl Rove, suggested that the Clinton campaign had totally underestimated Barack Obama’s appeal, and complained about the overall lack of planning that he said had characterized the former First Lady’s bid to return to the White House."

[bunnies]

5. Of course. The race was over weeks ago. Oh wait... It wasnt? nt

[AtomicKitten]

6. Good analysis.

thanks for posting this

[thereismore]

7. It's a fair piece. Fair as in: unbiased. nt

[Cha]

22. Way unbiased!. From a donator,

no less, like Leon Panetta.

[sniffa]

8. Off to the GP you go

[Debi]

9. Why?

Because I didn't add MUTHERFUCKER in my subjectline? :shrug:


On edit:

Ohhhhh GP.... I was thinking GD.... :blush: - thanks :hi:

[Whisp]

16. lol! that's funny.

you look so cute when you blush.

:rofl:

[Cha]

23. sniffa only has

your best interests at :loveya: heart! B-)

[immoderate]

10. Some good commennts there.

A couple point out that Hillary never led during the Bush tribulations. She should have known what we did. She never had the ammo. Obama, on the other hand is a jiu-jitsu master. I hope he can improve his policies to match his campaign skills.

--IMM

[MindMatter]

18. There is a time to stop lawyering and stand on principle

For me, the Iraq war was such a moment if there ever was one. Hillary Clinton, the lawyer (wife of "what the meaning of 'is' is" Bill Clinton) might be able to make a lawyer's argument that:

a) technically speaking, we didn't all have absolute rock-solid evidence that the Bush game was just making this shit up, and

b) technically speaking, she didn't actually vote to authorize the war.

A lawyer can make arguments like that. And sometimes they can get their clients out of a noose that way. But the rest of us know the truth. There really is no excuse for any Senator to not know the score. Either she actually wanted Bush's war or else she was too cowardly or not principled enough to stand against it. Plain and simple.

A lot of us would have been able to forgive that because we really do understand the intense pressure Rove was able to apply with the vice of 9-11. But when she entered this campaign and refused to own the issue, that was the end of the line for me.

I know that Panetta is a Clinton boy, so he's not likely to talk frankly. The simple truth is the thing that lost this campaign was Hillary, not the campaign strategy. Not her lieutenants. Not her ground team. None of that. She lost it because of who she is. We needed her to stand up for this country years ago. She made the choice to take the low-risk path, calculating that would lead her to the White House. That was her decision and hers alone. No use pointing fingers here.

[K Gardner]

12. "Panetta compared Mark Penn to Karl Rove"... good article ! Thanks :-)

[Bread and Circus]

13. Another good article. It's what many of us have been saying. Too bad Tina Fey knows more....

than Leon Panetta.

[Cha]

25. Yeah, snl was sited as source that hilaryland

campaign is still in the game? Too weird.

[MindMatter]

14. Never a good sign when they refer to you in the past tense

[applegrove]

15. Yup - good read.

[Cha]

19. Thanks, Debi! Who knew

Leon Panetta would give such a good analysis of hilaryland's campaign and let out little gems..

“In the White House, if there was something important coming up, we would prepare him and engage him about what questions he might expect. And sometimes,” Mr. Panetta added with a rueful laugh, “that would let him get things out of his system while he was just with us.”

[Johnny__Motown]

21. Ready On Day None

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. Bodes poorly for qualifying for national leadership.

[Greyskye]

26. Good article - interesting insights

Comparing Penn to Rove - :wow:

[autorank]

27. Like Bush and Rummy in Iraq.

I just read it and came to see if it had been posted here. Good work. Quite an article.

Panetta is not the kind of guy to just mouth off. It's probably much worse than he says.