Do you think you are part of the Democratic base?

[WilliamPitt]

I hear a lot of stuff on DU about anti-war left-wing types being the base, and Kerry better not piss us off, or Kerry better court us, or Kerry has already pissed us off, so screw you guys, I'm going home.

I hate to break it to you, but anti-war left-wing types are not the base of the Democratic party.

Union members are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast and Pacific northwest. Women are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast, far west, and portions of the midwest. African Americans are the base of the party all across the country.

Anti-war left-wing types are the single most unreliable voter group in America. Unless you are simon-pure, you are unworthy of support from that group. As no politician in 21st Century America (with a snowball's chance of winning a national election) is simon-pure, they are not likely to bust their asses to get anti-war left-wing support.

Anti-war left-wing support, by the way, is buried by the aforementioned real base. Yes, anti-war left-wing support can swing an election, but because of the aforementioned unreliability problem - anti-war left-wing voters will bolt at the first sign of impurity, even in a tight race (See: 2000) - it is too often a hopeless exercise to try and court that group with any real vigor. The real base outnumbers anti-war left-wing types 10-1. That's where the focus goes.

So all you anti-war left-wing folks should probably stop referring to yourselves as the base of the Democratic party. Don't feel bad; I'm a anti-war left-wing type, too, and so I'm out of the fun as well. We were close to being the base, but blew up in 1968 because we couldn't stand it anymore. The party looked at us and said, "OOOOkay...let's look elsewhere."

Point?

Stop waiting for the party to court you. They won't. Either roll up your sleeves and help clean out the Aegean stables, or bolt and do exactly what the party expects you to do...which is why they don't think of you as any kind of base.

We can clean this house. We have to win first, and for a lot of good people that makes for an ugly, maddening choice, but we can clean this house. Then we'll be the base.

[JohnLocke]

1. Well said, as always, Mr. Pitt.

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Then I guess I am not part of the base.

.

[WilliamPitt]

3. And thus...?

[greatauntoftriplets]

4. And thus?

My vote and I are being marginalized.

On edit: I am a far-left Midwestern professional woman.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Exactly

But what to do?

On edit: I am a lefty non-union non-woman non-African-American anti-war type.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. The gods only know.

My relatives in Luxembourg would welcome me with open arms. It is damned tempting.

[WilliamPitt]

13. Submitting to the temptation

would be exactly the reason why you're not part of the base. 'Base' denotes sticking, through thick and thin. Sucks, but there it is.

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. I could still vote here

AND live in Luxembourg.

On edit: And I have voted Democratic in presidential elections since 1972. Not fond of Kerry and will not pretend otherwise.

[dogman]

17. Must be a Luxembourg thing.

My Grandmother who inspired my political interest was in the IWW. She was total Luxie and an early feminist.

[greatauntoftriplets]

Luxies are great, aren't they?

Have you been there? Are you in Chicago? Big Luxembourgisch community here.

[dogman]

30. No I haven't.

Just out side Chicago, originally Aurora, early Luxie community.

[greatauntoftriplets]

32. Lordy!

Lots of Luxembourgisch in Chicago. I am Far North Side of the city, my grandfather lived in Rogers Park. I live a bit south of that. I know well where Aurora is. My Irish father was from Elgin. You should come to our next Chicago DU get-together.

[dogman]

37. Possibly.

She married an Irishman(half-Welsh).

[greatauntoftriplets]

39. The Welsh people are great.

I have been to Wales. Beautiful country, though rainy. So is Ireland.

[dogman]

40. My only travels

out of country were courtesy of my Uncle Sam to beautiful SE Asia.

[greatauntoftriplets]

42. Ah, I recall that era well.

They threw me out of college in 1971 (with a degree).

Luxembourg is great. Please come to the next Chicago DU get-together. If I know you are coming, I will bring photos. Grandpa was from a place called Mertzig and Grandma from a place called Feulen. They both died ages before I was born, but have been back a couple of times.

[JohnLocke]

5. By the way, it's Aegean stables, not Augean stables.

Will cleaning it out require a Herculean effort? :)

[WilliamPitt]

7. D'oh!

Fixed. Thanks.

[JohnLocke]

9. Actually, it can be spelled either way, but Aegean is more well-known.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Now you tell me.

:)

[edzontar]

62. It is NOT Aegean, my friend. It is AUGEAN.

Aegean is the sea.

Augean is the stables...

See "http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/stables.html"

PS I teach Art History and classics so i know a little about this....

[foo_bar]

89. on this we agree

[dogman]

10. Left Base?

[Adelante]

12. I always felt I was part of the base

Until I came here and was told again and again I was not. The party never had to court me. That's what being "the base" means.

[WilliamPitt]

14. 'The party never had to court me. That's what being "the base" means.'

Give that anonymous internet poster a see-gar.

:)

[SW FL Dem]

76. Amen Jersey

I am a lifelong Dem. Would never consider voting Repub even though I would profit financialy. Would never consider voting 3rd party since that vote is the same as a vote for Shrub.

[benburch]

15. The "base" is a slippery concept.

A political party is run by those who come out and work for it and with it.

However, if I can judge by my local Democratic Party organization, (Elgin, IL) you are absolutely right. Middle class, blue collar, union employees, (Most of whom were anti-war, BTW.)

And we WILL get them out to vote this year.

We will take Kane county.

We will unseat Dennis Hastert.

We will win the vacant Senate seat.

And we will deliver Illinois' electors for John Kerry, the next President of The United States.

-Ben Burch
White Rose Society Webmaster
http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

[dogman]

34. Good thoughts

but 2 out of 4 likely. The last two.

[benburch]

54. Don't sell us short!

Dennis Hastert is in for the fight of his life.

[Generic Other]

18. I am a left wing anti-war type and I went to my caucus meeting

to support the frontrunner no matter who that might be. I went home an elected delegate to the county convention.

Are you telling me there's no place for me?

[benburch]

20. You're here

Are you telling me there's no place for me?

You made your own place! That's how a Party works. Welcome.

[WilliamPitt]

25. Of course not

"Support the frontrunner no matter who that might be" is the #1 characteristic of someone in the base. The fact that you're also an anti-war lefty is just icing on the cake. :)

119. I respectfully disagree

Support the nominee no matter who that might be.
Often the frontrunner changes as the primary season gets underway.
Look what happened this year for example.

[mdmc]

19. yeah, but who do you turn to when you need protesters in the street?

anti war, peace types.
We got John Kerry, the truest lefty of the entire top tier of Democratic candidates, as our candidate. We won.

[benburch]

28. At the 2002 DC protest...

... though the "left wing peace types" were very much in evidence, most people were your average concerned American...

That is what is unique about what is happening now. You are getting churchgoing, union joining, blue collar types out into the streets.

-Ben

[MuseRider]

21. I am with you

as much as I HATE it. I clean my own stables every day so I believe I can certainly help with this one. It will take all of us this time cause the stable is a mess.

[markus]

22. Defeat Bush. Then re-evaluate the worth of the two party system

But first we get rid of this Bush fellow. Kerry-Edwards? Hell, Kerry-Cthullu. I'm OK. They get my vote, and a lot of my life between now and then.


But starting the second Wednesday in November, it's time to seriously rethink the Democratic Party as its currently constituted.

Problem is, a lot of people who share my views aren't willing to make the commitment the right did to take over the Democratic Party. Most DP organizations are starved for people, and have a hard time putting together officers for the districts/counties/etc., or finding enough delegates to fill their slots for the off-year state conventions.

The real issue isn't anti-war. The real issue is this: the GOP has been waging an open Class War against working people for a generation, using the culture wars as a means to an end.

The Democratic Party is only going to wake up and starting fighting back in the Class War when we are the Democratic Party. And to get to that end will take a lot of work, and by an ugly struggle.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

58. Yes. The real issue

"The real issue isn't anti-war. The real issue is this: the GOP has been waging an open Class War against working people for a generation, using the culture wars as a means to an end."

Yes.

The Vietnam anti-war protesters were used by the GOP to drive a huge wedge between the Democratic Party and its working-class base. Some, like my labor union, WWII vet father, were against the war in Vietnam and stuck with the party. Others characterized the protesters as spoiled rich kids who didn't want to fulfill their duty to a country that had blessed them with the greatest standard of living of any nation, and sided with the Republican flag-wavers.

But before the war became an issue - that is, before my generation reached draft age - there was a deeper, darker rift that turned whole states away from their long Democratic affiliation, and that was the battle for civil rights. When Kennedy and then LBJ advanced civil rights for African-Americans, the Democrats lost a lot of voters for whom the Civil War has never ended. Under the guise of fiscal conservatism, the GOP appealed to people who believed that an extra dime in a black man's pocket was a dime that came out of theirs. There was no convincing them that trickle-down economics was a ponzi scheme that victimized black and white alike.

Fiscal conservatism is code for "no black bastard is gonna get his hands on my money" and masks the racism that underlies every aspect of American culture. By convincing the working class that they are on the side of "white and right," the GOP has been able to rifle the pockets of every average American, regardless of race, color or creed. Now, that's equality.

War with other countries is a secondary issue for me. The internal war that began over a hundred years ago and continues to this day is the one that concerns me the most. In that light, anti-war protesters are seen as people who promote the rights of brown people over the rights of white people, and speaks to the fundamental problem of race right here at home. That is the class war that we continue to battle in all its many guises.

First and foremost, I support equal rights for all Americans - equal rights, and equal responsibility - and that's what makes me part of the base. The Democratic Party needs to convince people that equality for all is equality for each, excluding no one. That is its historic strength; in this age of rampant corporate privilege and theft, equality can be our rallying cry once more.

[corporatewhore]

23. dupe

[WilliamPitt]

27. Awesome

and not part of the base.

[whistle]

24. Oh Mr Pitt...

...are you saying that the democratic politicians (party power base) are no different than the republicans when it comes to war mongering? I'm sorry, there has been a major miscarriage of both responsible national defense by the Bush Administration and the lying to the American people about the need and reasons for going to war. This is not anti-war left-wing folks protesting here. This is about exposing a criminal regime that is bent on taking over this country and imposing an extreme right-wing agenda which will subordinate individual freedoms of all Americans as awarded us by the Constitution of the United States of America and creating two classes of citizens, those who are with George Bush and support his criminal regime and those who wish to preserve the constitution. Stand up and be counted.

[corporatewhore]

26. i am a queer latina anti war economic populist/antifreetrade between the

ages of 18-21 from the South West what does that make me

[WilliamPitt]

29. Again, awesome

but not part of the base.

Unless...

[Old and In the Way]

46. The perfect Ralph Nader Demographic?

Damn, you would have loved the 60's, you could have been a Weatherman...

[eridani]

And the Dems have damned well betrayed the union base

with NAFTA and WTO, women with welfare 'reform' and African Americans with the racist 'War On Some Drugs.'

Kucinich is, of course, against all of those things in addition to being antiwar.

[eridani]

86. When do the Dems stop shafting unions, etc?

[corporatewhore]

31. what about jim hightowers mom and dad who i think the anti war left could

unite with over freetrade policies anyways
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1267477

[WilliamPitt]

33. Where do they stand on voting for the nominee?

[corporatewhore]

52. dont know about jims parents but some one like them worked with me in

the dennis kucinich campaign.You see outsourcing and freetrade is one issue that could unite the anti war left the union left and the working class right

[tedoll78]

35. I count myself in.

The Supreme Court has always been my make-or-break issue since so many other issues end-up being resolved there. It's a kind of catch-all cop-out of a pet issue, but it's also a good yardstick of a candidate.

I was very against the war, but I'm not a mental case. I won't shoot myself in the head (yes, that's 'head'.. not 'foot') to feel pure at the voting booth. It's always been my argument that certain third party candidates could make more of an effect on Dem party policy by mounting challenges in primaries; this would result in more victories for the Left, allowing a leftward lurch over time, and it would much more likely result in their concerns being at least considered and pandered-to. Nader voters should make themselves a part of the base in the manner as GLBT voters or African American voters - look at the power that these groups have in setting our policy!

[Zomby Woof]

36. somebody had to say it

"All your Democratic base are belong to us!" :P

[WilliamPitt]

38. ¡Decir ustedes la Verdad de Zomby!

:)

[markus]

41. iYo lo digo! n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. I've voted a straight Democratic ticket since 1978

I think that qualifies me as part of the base no matter what my views are.

[Capn Sunshine]

110. I've voted straight Democratic ticket since 1970

I'm voting for Kerry. Totally unenthusiastic about it.

That makes me the base, all right.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

125. So, two long time Dems,

one totally enthusiastic about Kerry, one totally unenthusiastic about Kerry, both voting for Kerry.


Sounds about right to me.

[eileen from OH]

44. Seems you ought to define "anti-war"

Hell, I'm anti-war and still proudly take credit for participating in efforts that ended the Viet Nam War. That probably defines me more as "anti-war" than Iraq does. Not that I wasn't virulently against the Iraqi war - cuz I was. But, unlike Viet Nam, I do feel we have the ol' "we broke it, now we gotta fix it" thing. The parallels between Viet Nam and Iraq are many, but I do think that in Iraq it's not just a matter of getting out, as it was in Viet Nam. I never believed either in the total evilness of Communism or the "draw the line in the sand" against Communism which is what we were fed as the reason to go in AND stay in. The reasons we went into Iraq were bullshit. But if we don't get out carefully, I DO believe it will either disintegrate into civil war or a repressive theocracy. And that would be awful - for them and for us. Maybe it will anyway. But I do think we owe it to the Iraqis - after bombing the shit out of them - to try.

So, see, I'm an old anti-warrior, Will. But it ain't just a matter of being "antiwar". Cuz being "anti-war" - at least for me and Iraq - ain't a black and white issue, the way Viet Nam was (or seemed to be at the time. What can I say, I was young, I had hair down to my perky li'l butt, I had flowers in my hair. . .but I digress.)

There's some greyness (and I can't believe I'm saying this) NUANCE to my anti-warness. And a fuckload of pragmatism too.

eileen from OH

[Old and In the Way]

50. Well said eileen......summed up my life experience pretty much

to a tee. Except I never had a perky butt.... :-)

[IronLionZion]

45. not a Democrat

sorry :shrug:

[WilliamPitt]

47. Best. Sig. Ever.

[IronLionZion]

65. thanks

:toast:

[snoochie]

87. Jim David's pretty funny

Please credit the man. :)

[IronLionZion]

98. done!

I didn't know it was him. :toast:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. Hmm, I guess I'm not

I'm definitely anti-war, but I'm also pro-union, pro-fair trade, anti-racist, feminist, and pro-environment.

According to one thread, that makes me "left of Mao."

And they wonder why people go Green.

[edzontar]

60. Count me in as "left of Mao" too...I LOVE Dem red-baiting threads!!!

Must be 20 of these a day here now.

Where is this coming from, is what I'd like to know....?

[WilliamPitt]

63. You think this is red-baiting?

I'd waste breath laughing at your dearth of historical perspective, but I'll save it.

[edzontar]

67. We were, of course, referring to another thread.

nt.

[WilliamPitt]

68. Which thread was that?

Did it have the word "Skinflap" in it?

[edzontar]

70. It had the line "to the left of Mao" in it...I think there are two of them

I would call that red-baiting...or at the very least, ot very clever analysis...

[WilliamPitt]

71. Welp, I didn't write those words

so it has no bearing on me.

"DU is nothing."

[edzontar]

75. I was not addressing you---I was addressing another colleague here...

nt.

[messiah]

49. I'm an African American Libertarian Leftist

and I would not like to be part of the media controlled uninformed base of either party.

[PassingFair]

51. SEIU, Women, Pacific Northwesterners and Blacks

hhhmmmmmm... all were and are overwhelmingly anti-bush, and anti imperialism. You are offbase.
If the "base" of the Democratic is "pro-war" if that is the alternative to being described "anti-war", then I DO want out. I will vote for Kerry, but the only advantage I can see to it is that maybe, just maybe, we can purge the religious right from power. The financial, imperialist right is apparently here to stay.

[fujiyama]

53. Polls showed...

that those who considered themselves democrats opposed the war on Iraq by higher numbers than those that didn't consider themselves democrats.

Granted, polls later showed even democrats supporting the war, but that was not as much real enthusiastic support, but more of a "rally around the flag" affect -- after all for a few months there, those that opposed the war were considered Saddam apologists.

Most polls showed those groups you named as opposing the war by greater numbers than average as well.

It's true that extreme far left people (who by and far were definetely anti war) are not part of the base simply because they DON'T vote democratic anyways, or rarely vote democratic.

The way I see it is that anyone that votes mostly democratic and has a history of voting democratic, is part of the "base", regardless of party registration.

However, I will say that those that made or make threats against the party (I won't democratic if they don't have issue X as part of the platform), is NOT part of the base (especially if they were making such ridiculous threats in what was looking to be an extremely close election in '00, or an even more obviously crucial election this year).

[LoneStarLiberal]

55. I'm Part of The Base

I am and nearly everyone here is.

Why?

Because if any of us huff and puff and blow off as either anti-war folks leaving, Dean people leaving, Clark people leaving, Southerners leaving, or whatever your fractured flavor is, we're enabling Bush re-election.

That's what it means to be the base. You are key to the electoral chances of your party, particularly in tough times.

Times are tough. Who's on board?

[LWolf]

56. No.

I've never thought I was part of the democratic base.

I've never thought the democratic party, or the average democrat, really cared what I thought one way or the other. Happy to have my vote, as long as I don't expect action on the issues important to me.

Unless, of course, we happen to agree on the issues; it happens now and then.

I agree with this:

Stop waiting for the party to court you. They won't. Either roll up your sleeves and help clean out the Aegean stables, or bolt and do exactly what the party expects you to do...which is why they don't think of you as any kind of base.

We can clean this house. We have to win first, and for a lot of good people that makes for an ugly, maddening choice, but we can clean this house. Then we'll be the base.

Which is exactly why Dennis Kucinich has my support as long as he needs it. I'll be with Kerry after the convention--I want to beat * as badly as the rest of the world. I hope it isn't as ugly or maddening as I imagine; but I'm still not going anywhere.

[legin]

57. I'm not anti-war, never have been,

I am anti-'mindless fucking idiot'.

If my distaste for being ruled over by total political cretins somehow makes me a bit of 'weirdo' in the eyes of the Democratic Party, then that is a pretty sad reflection on that Party.

[edzontar]

59. I am one of those "anti-war leftist" types and am definitely part of the

Base--if voting Dem for 32 years matters, being the son and grandson of Dems on both sides matters, working for Dem candidates for many years matters....marching against the Vietnam war with Kerry matters, etc. etc....

But apparently some folks here have nothing better to do than attack so-called leftists and anti-war people...

What I wonder is WHY?

I have seen a major rise in red-baiting on these forums, and this thread, while presented in a less inflammatory manner, keeps the trend going.

Where is the impulse for this radical shift in the tenor of DU coming from?

I wish I knew.

In any case, it is a shame that so many folks who should know better are putting down the anti-war movement at the very time that the "True Lies" led us to this disaster are finally coming out in the laundry.

So here is my question to you:

What if the ABB-fueled "move to the center" (or to the Right, which is what it really is) FAILS in November, like it did in 2002?

THEN what?

How do we put a divided and failed party back together after something like that?

[mzmolly]

97. It's even more of a shame when the very people who are "putting down the

anti war movement" were a vocal part of it.

Could some be struggling with their own issues reconciling the matter of chosing between *a war mongerer and an enabler*? I think so. We are battling with the internal voices of a brillant yet troubled soul IMHO.

I understand it is hard to reconcile these issues, because I am in the process of doing so now.

I also understand that our political leaders are human beings - and I allow them to be, but I do not allow human beings to dismiss my VERY REAL concerns as being trivial.

[stevedeshazer]

61. Both

And I'm not conflicted at all.

Union family? Check.

Pacific Northwest? Check.

Unreliable? Hell yes. Voted for John Anderson in 1980. Voted for Nader. Twice. Not this time.

Anti-war? Goddamned right.

I'm not looking to be courted now. The danger is too great. Now I'm registering people to vote Democratic. I may be anti-war, but I'm not an idiot.

You can be both part of the base and part of the change at the same time. My family's roots are solidly FDR, but there is a maverick independent streak that pulls me hard left. The party needs people like us; without us in recent elections it veered right...and lost. :)

[ModerateMiddle]

64. I'm a swing voter

What sealed my association with the Dem Party is the Republican nomination of George W. Bush as its presidential candidate in 2000.

[ACK]

66. I am part of the Democratic base

I have voted a straight Dem ticket since I could vote.

I worked the Clinton campaign in college.

I give money to Kerry.

Here are set of my core political beliefs. I propose that a platform of change around these ideals could appeal to all of America. The real key is to reclaim the language of debate and find a new progressive populist voice forged around our beliefs.

1. I believe the Government has a duty to regulate the power of corporations when the corporate interests conflict with public
interests. In a capitalist society you have to work with business interests but you cannot be whores to them. When the rubber meets the road and the public interest is at stake then the citizen's interests much be preserved.

2. I believe that the full protection of the Bill of Rights outlined in the Constitution should not be curtailed. Repeal the Patriot's Act and keep government out of the bedrooms and out of the business of trying to dictate behavior and speech.

3. I believe in a woman's right to choose. It is not the government's place to regulate procreation.

4. I believe that universal healthcare is a moral imperitive and can benefit both the public and the corporate structure of this country. This can be a great benefit to both the public and business interests in America. Free up the HR departments from having to worry over healthcare and you free up an incredible amount of money into the economy. With that kind of money back into the economy insuring the uninsured with pay huge dividends in increased productivity in the end. I see a single-payer system with plenty of options much like what is available to the feds right now. However, I am open to all options that meet the requirements of universal healthcare.

5. I believe in the seperation of church and state and that public money should not go to fund religious organizations.

6. I believe in the social safety net. I believe that government can give a hand up and not just a hand out. The real issue is connecting people with jobs in the private sector. The real issue is retraining and getting people to the available jobs in their areas. Moreover, the biggest issue is figuring out how to prevent single moms from having to choose between providing for their families and abandoning their children. A workfare system with a system of available childcare, retraining programs that work with local businesses and job networking systems that focus on the local employeement needs.

7. I believe in proper education funding. Focusing on the schools in the most need is crucial and accountability for performance is important as well. There can be no more unfunded mandates. We must have the guts to put our money where our mouth is. The money has to be connected to results but the idea of results without proper funding is a self-fullfilling prophecy of doom.

8. I believe in morality in foreign policy. Too often, being pragmatic has turned to being opportunistic and bullying. In the end, we always pay for it. We have to frame our actions within the insititution of the UN and embrace our allies. We do not have to take a weak hats in our hand approach but that is not the same as being arrogant and unilateral in our actions. We have to have a policy that understand the role of diplomacy and action.

9. I believe in protecting the environment and this can be done without being proxies for industry and without destroying industry. Any progress toward a cleaner environment has to involve business interests as well as environmental groups. A balanced well thought out approach is the answer here. When the business interests work with government and play fair -- praise them (this is tough for some of us) but you have to give them the chance. This is the noose of a chance that every polluter will have the opportunity to hang themselves on. Play the game or pay big. Enforce the laws on the books with a vengence. Come up with a list of the best companies and the worst and make it a huge public affair. Take down the punks and praise those who try to do right.

10. Fiscal responsibility is key. We have to balance the budget. The borrow and spend Republicans are giving away the future for short term economic gains. We have to repeal the giveaways to the rich. We have to move the country forward toward the goal of a balanced budget. The tax cuts for the working and middle class were warranted but they were a smoke screen for other people in the highest tax brackets who did NOT want to pay their fair share. A total reform of the tax structure, simplification of the rules and the cutting of loopholes for the wealthy are needed immediately.

11. Gun safety laws need to be strengthened but a ban on firearms is not practical or workable. This is the kind of talk that soothes the hunters and brings out the harsh nuts and exposes them for the idiots they are.

12. Corporate welfare should end. It is not the government's job in a capitalist society to bail out or give aid to failing corporations. Target the worst of the pork belley giveaways to the richest corporations and make it a reform based media event. Plug this constantly along with the next point.

13. Small business initiatives that promote competition in a free market society is not the same thing as corporate welfare and should endure to promote the ideals of small business owners.

14. I believe in a military strong enough to defend the nation. A two-pronged approach to the military is needed. Weed out waste and give over better benefits to the men in the ranks. We all know there is waste in the current defense budget. This is the only way to cut down defense spending without looking weak. You highlight the cuts as unpatriotic wastes of the taxpayer dollars. You give back at least 50% of all the cuts back to the common soldiers and the vets that have given so much.

15. Independence from non-renewable energy sources should be a national goal with a set of real deadlines. A real energy policy that focuses on getting America away from the dependency on foreign oil and onto the path of using renewable resources is an idea who's time as come. We cannot simply give away more money to energy companies and destroy our national wildlife heritage. That is not the way. Initiatives and grants aimed at promoting new ideas and technologies is the real winning plan. These are the technologies that can put America businesses on top in the long term and preserve our nation's treasured resources.

16. I believe in a worker's right to organize and collectively bargain. Any law that would take away over-time benefits or prevent the rights of workers to collectively bargain must be stopped. The minimum wage must be expanded. Illegal union busting tactics must be stopped. The business of America is business but the core of business is built on the initiative, work, sweat and pride of the American worker.

Does this make left of center or centrist? I do not really give a flying shit but I do know one thing -- it makes me a Democrat.

[WilliamPitt]

69. It makes this a great post

Thanks.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

79. Excellent post

Sums up much of my own beliefs.

[Merlin]

72. I agree. But it doesn't mean I'm going to kiss Kerry's ass.

I'll work to defeat Bush. I'll even wind up giving a couple large to Kerry -- if he doesn't pull any more of these Chavez type moves.

But I'm also going to scream bloody murder when his campaign fucks up.

I've spent too many years living under hellish Republican administrations because of Democratic candidates who've run stupid campaigns. Kerry's start is NOT encouraging. I don't even want to THINK what will happen if he doesn't win this thing. So I intend to do everything I can to keep the Kerry people focused and to keep their heads out of their asses.

[hedgetrimmer]

73. I am a Republican,

but only when I recite the current platform of the Democrat delegate winner of the Presidential candidacy into the mirror and see myself saying that garbage.

Am I the Democrat base? Your depiction is hard to render an image of myself via sex, race, union worker or any other non-white male description. I am 33 years old, I've voted in every election that I could since I was 18. Everytime I dropped the ballot check mark was for the Democrats (except once) the N.M. Gobernatorial race... I voted Green. Yes, I am the base and there are millions around this country who believe the same and they vote as do I. Yes, the Democrat party should bend over and kiss my lily white ass to get my vote. The party has fucked the people of this country. They have been bending toward the money players like iron filings in the dirt toward a nice shiny magnet.

I've got choices and the more I see it I don't know if it's better to go up against a juggernaut of world domination to regain ahold the reins or move to the commonwealth parties where movement within it's ranks can easily be moved into power positions and take the country bsck to the people.

Many blessings-

[elperromagico]

74. I think I'm too liberal to be the "base"

A pundit would probably include me in the "at risk" column - meaning that I might turn into a Nader voter.

I'm not at risk, though. I'm voting for Kerry.

[Nazgul35]

77. your causality is backwards...

people are the base because the Party has attracted this group of voters and over time, through policy rewarded by voting, have developed a loyalty between the voter and the candidate....

It is very telling of those in this thread who seek to stand that relationship of its head by delcaring that being the base requires blind obediance....

That may be what the pseudo insiders would like to think it is...and it goes a long way to explain why some many factions within the Dem Party are pissed off..."lefty-liberals" "african-americans" etc...look at the candidates we had running and the support they generated...Dean and Kucinich, Clark, Edwards, Sharpton, each appealed to a faction of dissatisfied "base" voters...

So go ahead..pat yourselves on the back and talk about how the voters are the real problem, they should know that they need to get in line, the whole time ignoring the responsibility that Kerry has to reach secure the confidence of voting blocks within the party...

So much arrogance! I suppose the votes belong to the Dem nominee and we are somehow stealing them by demanding that the candidate be responsive to our issues and concerns....what a radical thought....is it very hard to understand why you are getting nothing but their votes...if that?

A second problem not addressed is the fact that our system has developed a more candidate centered election process which has caused a decline in Party loyalty over the last 40 years....while there was an upsurge in the 90s, this is not in fact related to loyalty but an increase in polarization between the two parties....and is in now way gauranteed to continue...

[redqueen]

102. I guess it will take more lessons from the school of experience

We'll have to wait until November to find out how that lesson manifests.

Wonder if Kerry will finally co-sponsor any of the bills currently attempting to legislate a mandatory audit trail for votes.

[vision]

78. most unreliable voter group?

"Anti-war left-wing types are the single most unreliable voter group in America. Unless you are simon-pure, you are unworthy of support from that group. As no politician in 21st Century America (with a snowball's chance of winning a national election) is simon-pure, they are not likely to bust their asses to get anti-war left-wing support. "

I don't think that it is accurate to say that the "left-wing" types are the most unreliable voter group. The most unreliable group are the registered Dems that have voted Republican in 2002, 2000, and before that. A few anti-war voters may not vote Dem but I bet that many more conservative or "swing" Dems will vote for Bush. "Swing voters" are the most unreliable voting block and as such the most widely sought. If the left-wing was more unreliable than maybe more effort would be spent trying to win them over instead of them being taken for granted.

[Zorra]

80. I vehemently disagree. I have voted Democrat all my life.

I am a hard core anti-war liberal Kucinich supporter that is going to vote for Kerry. (Yes, I fully agree that we have to win this election at all cost). I do not need to be courted per se; however, I do need to see that the Party is maintaining adherence to the Party ideology that makes me want to stay a Democrat. And I would like to see the Democratic presidential nominee have a substantial amount in common with my sensibilities and beliefs. (And engaging in and continuing unjustifiable wars is something that I definitely don't believe in, nor, as far as I know, is this part of the Democratic Party's ideology.)

The US Green Party formed in 1984, coinciding with the formation of the pro big business DLC the same year. The Green Party seems to be the home of many disillusioned left leaning former Democrats that abandoned the Democratic Party because of their perception that the Party was becoming increasingly conservative and big business oriented. Since the formation of the DLC (and the Green Party) to the present, the Democratic Party has gradually lost a considerable number of seats in the House and Senate to where they are now a minority in both bodies, and has held the White House for 8 years as opposed to almost 12 by the republicans. These are not good numbers, and perhaps, if what you said about the Democratic Party not considering we anti-war tree-hugging populist lefties part of its base is true, the Party should reconsider it's assessment of who compromises its base.

So we might ask, because the DLC led Party basically abandoned one key Party ideological principle - which is preventing big business from controlling our government - has this alienated what is arguably a significant part of the Democratic base to such an extent that we have lost support and will continue to lose our more liberal members until the Democratic Party becomes ineffective in politics? How many more liberals will reluctantly abandon the Party if it does not hold to those principles that attracted us to the Democratic Party in the first place?

Now, I am willing, at this point, because I recognize the importance of getting rid of Bu$h, and my lifetime involvement with the Democratic Party, to stick with the Party and to try to get it back on track after the election. But if the party no longer represents me and subsequently does not appear to be returning to its traditional ideals after the election....then what the hell am I supposed to do?

So am I part of the Democratic base? GD yellowdog right I am! Much moreso than any "Reagan Democrat" that sometimes votes for republicans and that the party seems to care about so much. I'm the person that has always been there. And I would never, ever, ever vote for a republican. No anti-war populist liberal ever would.

So maybe the Party should consider sending me, and the rest of us yellowdog lefties, a card and some flowers, and let us know that we are an appreciated part of the Democratic base after we win the election.

In reality, we are all the base.

[Zinfandel]

81. Don't make me laugh... what fucking unions?

The party is so fucking far from my liberal FDR progressive ideology...Just another ugh moderate sitting on a fence...

[JVS]

82. Union members in the Northeast? Our jobs went to Right to work states.

We were deindustrialized. If this is the base upon which the party relies, then dismal results are no wonder. Remember Gephardt, the big labor candidate? He was destroyed in the primaries. Where was the union base then?

[Dr Fate]

83. End the Nightmare- Vote Kerry

Democrats need to be back in power.

These anti-DEM responses are insane- I wish the old DU was back...

[Hekate]

84. Well said, Will Pitt

I guess I am part of the base: I'll never vote Republican after what they've put us through in my lifetime, and I am female and living on the West Coast. The Democratic Party is the only place for a feminist liberal who wants a ghost of a chance to make things change. I really like Kucinich, but I didn't think he had a prayer. I worked for Dean, and am still reeling from the way the media built him up and then tore him down just because they could. And in the end I'll vote for, and work for, Kerry. I may be a disappointed lefty, but ABBA.

Thanks for succinctly pointing out the problem with purists. I've noticed that over and over again in DU threads: there are some people who would rather toss their firstborn into a volcano than concede that it might make more sense to vote for someone less-than-perfect than to let Dubya remain in the WH for four more years.

I'm disgusted beyond belief with Washington politics, but I think the best thing we can do is be engaged with the process. The alternative is to let the Neoconservatives, Dominionists, and corporatists complete the destruction of our country unopposed. Augean Stables is right.

It's my country, dammit, and I want it back, but I can't do it alone and neither can you. We have to work together; or as Ben Franklin so memorably said: We must hang together or we will surely hang separately. And with Ashcroft as AG and Scalia on the SCOTUS, it's all too likely.

Hekate

edited for clarity

[REP]

85. Hey, I Qualify!

I'm a female union member in the Pacific Northwest with being disabled as a kicker. I'm not even anti-war - I'm anti-THIS-war but would have been delighted if Saudi Arabia had been glassed over.

I've voted straight Democratic ticket in every election, but I'm not a party member. Despite being a female union worker, the party seems to think I'm so stupid that I can be tricked into thinking words = action. Maybe I am - I keep voting for them, despite the little they've done for any of my 'special' interest categories - you know, silly things like good jobs, worker protection, that sort of nonsense.

They're getting my vote again; they can count on it. Not because I love their guy (I don't, but I don't dislike him, either) but because I'm sickened at what the other party is doing to our Constitution and eveything that is good about my country. I trust them Dems to not fuck it up as badly, but not much more, alas.

[KittyWampus]

88. As A LeftWinger Who Knows The Import Of Projecting A Moderate Image

I consider myself part of the Base.

And a lot of people whom many would consider Left Wing Anti-War types are ultimately either:

1. People who like to act as Agitators in order to empower & enrich themselves foremost (with political cause running distant second to their priorities).

2. People who have swallowed an ideaology and refuse to bother with the broad spectrum of facts in a given situation.

[kodi]

90. yes, i am

and i know that the only way my positions will be heard is to actively engage in the political process at the local, precinct level and support candidates who think as i do.

any liberal-leftist can do it. look at how the religious right and far political right have taken over the GOP. they did it by grass roots organizing and ran their candidates at the local level and proceeded up to the state and federal level.

i don't see any reason why liberal-leftist can't actively organize within the democratic party and take it over. all it takes is will power and participation.

what i see is that peculiar american trait of delayed adolescence... an inability to delay gratification and demand instant gratification, and at the political level........it means that one expects politicians to respond to those who don't actively participate in the political process except to vote.

it doesn't work that way. only by active participation within the framework of the structure of the political system will one's opinions have impact. even in the civil rights movement, it was not marches that changed the system, it was the actual politicians who passed laws that did it.

[Walt Starr]

91. See, I despise John Kerry, I mean REALLY despise the man

and my dislike of John Kerry is only superceded by my loathing of Bush. so I'm prepared to walk right in, hold my nose, and vote for the idiot the Democratic Party chose.

But crap like this post makes me think twice and makes Nader, whom I also despise, seem like a little less of an asshole.

In the end will Kerry get my vote? Probably, unless I keep reading "hey you idiot, you MUST vote for Kerry" crap all over the place.

[WI_DEM]

100. well said, Walt Starr

I too supported someone who I truly believed in (Howard Dean) and who has been proven correct time after time on the great issue facing this nation--the war in Iraq and the events which led up to that war. I will reluctantly vote for Kerry as well as I explained in an earlier post the Supreme Court will be crucial in the next few years and. But we don't need to be told "fall in line or else" by folks--it really doesn't help their cause.

[KoKo]

123. Hey Walt, agree here, and what's this from a guy who wasn't born in '68!

Sheesh, give me a break. What does this poster of this thread know about "Peace Movements" when he/she wasn't even born yet.....ugh! ;-)'s

[dsc]

92. I think both LGBT voters and pro choicers

should be counted as part of the base. LGBT voters have only been counted in the last three elections but have average over 70% for the Democrat and never fell below 65%. Pro choicers have a similar voting record. You also left out Jews who vote around 80% Democratic. In all cases sited we do as well as, or better than, labor unions have as of late.

[Walt Starr]

93. I've voted straight Democratic tickets for nearly a quarter century

and have only recently been feeling like the Democratic Party doesn't give a damn about the issues I care about.

[Dhalgren]

94. The Democratic Base?

There is no Democratic base. Or, rather, it is so small as to be marginal, itself. The Democratic base voted for McGovern in '72, for Carter in '80, for Mondale and Dukakis - and in all of these elections nobody elese voted Democratic. The labor unions? The ones that remain, that have survived, are all over the place - the union leadership can indorse whomever they please, but the membership votes as it pleases (remember George Wallace?). The Democratic base is the folks out there who will vote Democratic regardless of what kind of lame-ass, muddled, vague and ill-defined crap the chosen nominee spews. This particular election year there will be a large number of people who will vote Democratic simply to rid the country of the fascist morans now in power - but I would not count on these voters to constitute a "new Democratic base". You don't have to be a Democrat to hate Bush and once Bush is gone (if he is gone) these voters will turn on the Democrats faster than they turned on Georgie-poo and his band of ass-wipes.

Sorry for the screed, but we do not live in a very foreward looking country and it sometimes just gets to me.

[IrateCitizen]

95. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

a;lkfjapofjao87r4qij4rukfjsa;oiufa 9pa8utgaoirtu984autcco3jt093auq!!!

woeiruq439857yuq p945hjkaudf9a8urt98qajrj;o42q3h592875oiesjqfhjhjtc oiewhjwpa98ruy42q9t8749u5taweiutq!!

oqwi4e5u9qp34uvy5pa94uvw875va9u75q98a5u7poaiwejhfli84qcr98ayw9pr8yap9yawioueareiur9ta8wu7598u4p5au!!!

epoiqwur09mv3098a7v53poiakj235hv3 a hap98uyavp98u5apa3u59pa58upaoiuaop45wu54ouaesep9r8uaewpop5iuopaihu5apoew8ypa9s8hufa9wmc 934u5pt74w9a875apa87powa8u4paowieupoaiuapwutoiruew ow4eut9a8wu75po48u???

lkaweurp9m8amc98a7wmpaowiuepomu09q8m2u498q745975pauwcoiu4 o;waieuc09w348 oweurpa9w8u7v5po8wa47p48a7p4v57aw3p o47vpn5a75ap8a758ap w87vapw75po8wa47p98a7v5p97a.

Doesn't this all sound a bit familiar? ;-)

[mzmolly]

96. Your sterio typing and missing the fact that the war is an issue in and of

itself. You are trivializing a very important issue in this WORLD with this condescending post.

In fact, this commentary sounds like it came from the ilk of Faux F**king News.

Ironically enough, *Truth Out* was a primary source for much of my information on the war. Were it not for Truth Out, I might be as happy as a fargen clam right now.

Am I one of the so called anti-war types ahhh, yes. Do I refer to MYSELF as part of 'THE BASE' ahhhh no. I am an individual aaah yes. In fact, the only group of people I know of, who refer to ME as "THE BASE" are the media. :hi:


Am I voting for Kerry ... hell yes!

Is he a good Democrat ... hell yes!

Did he fail me greatly with his support of the current administration ... HELL YES!

Do I drink Latte ... Hell yes!

[blindpig]

99. is the environmental vote not part of the base?

the party has owned that issue since Raygun brought that monster Watt to town. LVC has said that 86% of Americans claim to be environmentalist, yet the party often does little more than toss us crumbs because like the unions we have no place else to go. Clinton was very disappointing in that respect( as many other). Yes, there are a handful of real warriors out there like Kerry(93%) but on the party level we're like a neurotic puppy, never knowing if we're going to get petted or slapped(again like the unions). Seems to me that being part of the base is like being codependent. Until the money is exorcised from the system by providing free tv time we're all chumps stuck with the lesser of 2 evils.
The environment is The Bottom Line.

[Piperay]

127. I agree and

it seems like even here in the DU people seem to count the environment as an after-thought. The environment is the one issue that I will never compromise on and is the deal breaker as far as I am concerned..

[Katha]

101. I'm a 19-year-old.

Enough said -- they want my vote for that all important 18-24 block.

Politically I'm fiscally conservative (hope it's not a crime to admit that!) but very socially liberal -- I'd put myself at left of center. There, too, I think my vote's pretty desired.

[GreenArrow]

103. so is the Democratic party "base" something static?

Is it something crystalized and preserved forever like a fly trapped in a chunk of amber, immovable and immutable?

Do you stay in a marraige, no matter the bruises, the cheating, the lies, the neglect, the icy coldness of indifference? Maybe it is sometimes noble to cling on, working and hoping for that day when he'll change and be the person you believed he was and could be. And maybe sometimes it's better to move on.

[RetroLounge]

104. Yawn

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

I'm the base because I say I am. Got it?

I don't need to define, defend, or devolve.
I don't need to behave, behoove or belittle.
I don't need to fall in line, fall in love, or fall down drunk.
I don't need to support, suppose or supplant.
I don't need to write a book, read a book, or bookmark a thread.

All I need to do is vote. 'D'

Got it?

RL

[Zynx]

105. Not quite.

I'm too much of a maverick for that.

[Snivi Yllom]

106. so why should we bother voting Dem then?

"Anti-war left-wing types are the single most unreliable voter group in America. Unless you are simon-pure, you are unworthy of support from that group. As no politician in 21st Century America (with a snowball's chance of winning a national election) is simon-pure, they are not likely to bust their asses to get anti-war left-wing support."

Thanks for counting on us when you need us to make a point. Bye now.

[wyldwolf]

107. Most definitely

I'm a southern white liberal to moderate male - as part of the base as a white male in the south can be.

I'm pro-choice
I'm pro-sensible gun control laws
I'm pro-First Amendment

I'm for a strong national defense but feel our awesome power should be used for good. I was against the Iraq War. I was for the Kosovo intervention. I would have been against Viet Nam. I would have been for WWII.

I voted for Bill Clinton and Al Gore and would again. I feel they appealed to the base and I believed and agreed with most of the things they accomplished.

Because I'm a moderate, I'm a realist. I know politicians serve others besides me. I have no unrealistic expectations that some golden boy (or girl) will ever be elected President that will please me 100%.

[VOX]

108. Middle-class caucasian who works in higher education...

Have voted Democratic all my life (starting with McGovern). I am anti-war, anti-capital punishment, anti-corporate, etc. BUT...

I am mature enough to know that victories are won by degrees and by strategy and by compromise, and never by a single, futile frontal assault.

I was not for Kerry at the start of this process. But he is now the one carrying the colors. So I ride with him. And I do it with joy, and I do so to *win*.

:kick:

[Robb]

109. Well, crap.

I'm not in a union, I'm not a woman, and I'm not African American.

The stack of mail in my mailbox from sundry Democrats sure makes me feel courted, tho'.

My union neighbor summed it up pretty well: "Hell, the Democrats have some problems, sure. But dammit, I just want a President to pander to me for a change! Is that too much to ask?!?" :D

[SendTheGOPPacking]

111. I guess that makes me part of the Democratic base.

That's good. I'm pissed and active too. That makes me dangerous. :evilgrin:

[GreenPartyVoter]

112. Sure. I am anti-war but also very pro-union.

[Paragon]

113. Base - how low can you go?

Death row? What a brother know. Once again, back is the incredible, rhyme animal, the incredible "D"!

[ulysses]

114. I do, in fact,

but not because I'm an "anti-war, left-wing type", although I suppose I am that. I wrote this to IrateCitizen last night:

"What I mean, at least, when I talk about the Democratic base is this: women and activists for women's rights, the destitute, the working poor, labor, African-Americans, social and economic justice advocates and traditional liberals. I'm likely forgetting one or two."

I consider myself a part of the last two...both of which, to my mind, involve a general preference for peace, yes.

Anti-war left-wing types are the single most unreliable voter group in America.

Quite a sweeping statement, and one for which I've found no backup after having read your initial post several times, slowly.

[MAlibdem]

115. Uh...I may be part of the base

Jewish intellectual...irish catholic roots too.

no real union connections tho...

[mouse7]

116. Working class and poor no longer the Democratic party base

I agree that the peace movement is not the party base.

I disagree that the Party considers union members and working class people the base. I think the Democratic Party has run away from working class and poverty issues as fast as it possibly could run. Too many Dems have voted affirmatively on "Right to Work", NAFTA, and WTO for the Party to claim the working class is it's base.

I think the party wants the surburban middle class to be the base.

I am from working poor roots, and no longer feel we are part of the base. Clinton ran away from that base, and the Democratic Party hierarcy hasn't made any real efort to reconnect since Clinton's first term.

[Larkspur]

117. Got news for you, union types are a dying breed

Union members are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast and Pacific northwest. Women are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast, far west, and portions of the midwest

And what are the Democrats going to do when that part of the base is no longer there for them?

Professionals an software engineers, like me and my colleagues, have never been in a union and most likely will not. That doesn't mean we don't support unions, but unions have never openned themselves up to our class of employee. We're more likely to be Moderate Republicans, Independents, and Democratic leaning Independents, you know the "Swing voters" the DLC supposedly lusts after.

[KoKo]

124. This original poster doesn't really know unions are dead, methinks. Is

not aware of their demise and the jobs going to India and that we invaded a sovereign country? :eyes:

[drfemoe]

118. I'm not part of the base

but I'm totally okay with remaining an Independent. Since I've voted Dem many times in the past, I expect I will many times in the future.

One interesting angle is the geographic breakdown you can see when you look at Party contributors (who you would expect to as least be counted as *base*, since they are giving $$). Large cities, SF, LA, NY, Boston, Chicago and DC are heavily populated with Democratic contributors. The southern cities of Houston, Dallas and Atlanta are more Republican Red.

See for yourself: http://www.fundrace.org/citymap.php?city=0

I live in a depressingly Red state :( .. but I'm a Blue contributor.

[greendog]

120. Anti-war left-wing types are unreliable?

....maybe it's the Democratic Party that's unreliable.

I no longer think of myself as part of the D-party's base. NAFTA, GATT, Telecom dereg, welfare reform and preventative wars are a few of the reasons for this.

[salin]

121. nothing like gross generalizations

doesnt quite capture the essence of the local anti-war movement which includes some office holding dems and many long-time dem activists in this community. Go figure.

[regnaD kciN]

122. How, Will...?

We can clean this house. We have to win first, and for a lot of good people that makes for an ugly, maddening choice, but we can clean this house. Then we'll be the base.

Say, we all get in line and vote John Kerry into the White House in November (as the vast majority of even us "anti-war left-wing" types are planning to do). What then? Kerry's victory will be seen as "proof" that there is no need to court us lefties, because "where else are they going to go?" The conclusion will be that we can be marginalized and, if we then try to "clean the house," dismissed and silenced, since they'll get our votes anyway.

It seems to me that this is the dilemma we're facing: "Hold our noses and vote for Kerry," and we'll be ignored. Don't vote for Kerry, and we'll be blamed. In any event, it will be taken as proof-positive that the Democratic Party should disregard us in the future.

:-(

[quaker bill]

126. Say What?

This anti-war leftie has been a straight ticket democratic voter since 1972, no exceptions.

Not good enough?