Haven't posted here in a long while... Going to vote this week in TX... Still on the fence...

[cags]

Looking through DU it seems most people here are for Obama.

I started out solidly for Clinton... but still open minded about Obama... Living in TX I hear alot of repub opinions on the two

My dilemma is this... Although in my research of Obama everything seems fine... but I just have this wierd gut feeling that he shouldn't be the nominee... I have no real evidence to back up that gut feeling but it is still just sitting there.

Clinton has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth of late with all the Obama attack, but I still kind of understand it since she is behind.

It kind of bothers me that no "dirt" has been found, the media and the repubs are treating him with kid gloves, and the country seems to be following him like he walks on water. Like hes not real or something. I'm nervous that the higher and faster they rise, the farther and harder they fall kind of thing is going to happen. It scares me that the repubs are not attacking him, they are not even making things up, like they are just waiting in the bushes with Dick Cheneys gun to shoot him the face when it counts the most. Kind of too good to be true.

At this moment I don't know who to choose...

Sure the majority are going for Obama right now, but the majority is not always right as history as proven countless times... I tend to judge for myself anyway and not follow one way or the other. Sometimes I'm in the majority sometimes I'm not.

As a woman, I would love to see a woman in the white house, but my 1st priority is that we have a democrat as president.

Is it a given that either one of them will beat McCain??

I just keep putting off voting early because I can't make up my mind...

I need someone who is real, warts and all, I haven't seen Obamas wart yet, Hillarys are kind of all over her face...LOL.

Reading my post to myself I guess I'm still leaning towards Clinton... anyone got anything to ease that gut feeling a bit, make Obama seem more real to me...

[saracat]

1. Follow your gut.The dirt is there. The Edwards Campaign knew a lot of it. The GOP

are holding their fire.And so is the media. You are correct in your assement of Hillary. .My gut told me the same thing.

[cags]

14. Thats my problem... Everyone has dirt... even Obama... I want to see it before making my choice

[papau]

20. every promise to the left will be tossed to get GOP love and a changed atmosphere - perhaps that

is a reason for a Hillary vote.

[cags]

21. Perhaps... Many repubs I talk to believe that Obama will compromise more with them than Hill will

[JackORoses]

23. it sad to see what you have sunk to since edwards pulled out

Bush's gut told him Iraq needed invading. Turns out it was just indigestion.

[yourguide]

41. So where's the dirt?

And if the Edwards campaign has/knows said dirt then why arent they coming out in support of HRC?

[lapfog_1]

2. Evaluate their votes, positions, strengths and weaknesses...

and if you still can't decide, flip a coin.

Of course, I want you to vote for Obama... but if you vote for Clinton... that's cool too.

By all means, vote!

[Adams Wulff]

11. Exactly. n/t

[mindfulNJ]

3. Do yourself a favor

...and make your choice independant of this board. It has been beyond nasty in here from both sides.

[OhioBlue]

4. the Republicans are attacking

him and are making things up.

the Muslim e-mails, the madrassa stories in right-wing media, the questioning of his Patriotism, attacks against Michelle, they've been calling him naive, resurrecting "where's the beef", etc.

[GPSrulesall]

5. In the end

You shouldn't listen to this board, to the media, your children, or anyone. You should follow what you think is the best choice. If you feel that Clinton is the best choice go for her and don't look back. If Obama seems to be worth your vote go with him. Don't let the media and others with obvious bias lead you down their line of thinking.
You should yourself analyze whats being said, and who you think is being truthful and is best for the job. Don't let others like Tweety or Wolf tell you what to think. And always always make sure you realize what is rhetoric among the candidates and think to yourself who do I believe will deliver on their promises.

Just my 2 cents. I wish my state was up to vote soon, but being in NC I have to wait until May 6, and I'm hoping it will count for something.

[Zueda]

6. If by now you haven't changed you mind then I suspect nothing will. n/t

[Cant trust em]

7. "I haven't seen Obamas wart yet, Hillarys are kind of all over her face"

There's a pretty sizeable portion of the electorate that already hates Clinton. Whether it's her fault or not isn't for me to say, but she is in a pretty big hole. Tough to climb out of being in a negative spotlight for the past 16 years.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

8. It seems that electability is your primary concern now

Seems that you are fine with the policies of both candidates, and are now focusing on electability. I'm sure you've seen all the polls that pit Obama and Hillary against McCain. Next, you have to ask yourself if Obama or Hillary will be more easy to smear in the GE. Will independents be more easily swayed by GOP attacks against Obama or Hillary? Currently, which candidate is more liked by independents? You have to decide this for yourself, I guess, but the polls and results of mudslinging during the primaries paints a clear picture for me.

[GPSrulesall]

10. but...

You should be wary of polls they are a snap shot of what is going on AT THIS MOMENT. If Hillary pulls this thing around you could see a complete reverse of the poll numbers.

[cags]

18. True... Polls can change with a good media story too

[peace13]

9. Wouldn't talk you out of Hillary.

I would ask you to go to www.barackobama.com and give him a read. Personally, the fact that he studied and taught Constitutional Law gives me hope of getting my rights back. I was against the war before the invasion and still am. Go to www.youtube.com and watch videos of Hillary selling the war to Congress in the run up using the right wings own words. That is the part that scares me. Good luck. Peace, Kim

[cags]

17. I was against the war too. It is important to be right the first time in my book, but the gut thing

[grantcart]

12. you should definitely vote early

and then go to the caucus on Tuesday

Go bama

[book_worm]

13. I'm not sure DU particularly GD-politics is the place to come to help make up your mind

in all honesty 80% of the posts are nothing but hit pieces against Obama or Clinton. But Good Luck!

[cags]

15. I go every place to help make up my mind. DU has some good info too, even if you have to fish for it

[efhmc]

16. Also, in Texas. I was and am a strong Edward's supporter and

every day that goes by I miss him more and more. Anyway, I had argued against Hillary with my family (too tied to cooperations) and wanted to throw Obama in the garbage after his positive reagun comments.(Analyze those words as you will. They were positive.) I voted last Thursday and honestly did not know for whom I was going to vote until my hand went to the Hillary button. (BTW, please vote for Dale Henry for RR commissioner, if you do not have another candidate. He is very well qualified and has a good possibility to win it all.) Good luck on your choice.

[saracat]

19. You traveled my road. I ended up with Hillary as well after arguing against her.

And I was an Edwards supporter too!

[efhmc]

22. I did not even know I was on that road until I got to the

destination. Since I can't have the man I want, I will be happy with either of the candidates. Just not that sorry, used-up, war monger mccain.

[saracat]

24. Well, I wouldn't be happy with Obama but I won't vote for McCain but I "might" write in Edwards.

I really don't trust Obama.I think he'd "negotiate" our rights away.I don't fear that with Hillary but JMHO.

[efhmc]

26. You know that is one of the things that really disturbs me about

him. I don't want to get along with the other side. Getting along with them will only continue to put all of our civil liberties in peril.

[saracat]

29. Remember when Edwards recently gave the interview ti Time Magazine and voiced his concerns that

Obama wasn't a "fighter"?I agree with John. Pelosi and Reid have been doing this "reach across the aisle" bipartisanship" and it just doesn't work.The GOP stands solid even when they are the minority.

[efhmc]

52. Being diverse makes us Democrats and that oftens means we oppose

one another. The problem is that we should be opposing repukes.

[anigbrowl]

25. Picture instead of 1000 words...I think this image tells us a lot about him

[cags]

27. I kind of prefer the 1000 words... but it is a cute pic

[GPSrulesall]

30. Is that his daughter?

And if so it means he loves his children..No one claims that any good parent wouldn't. But that doesn't necessarily make him the right man for the job.

[anigbrowl]

36. Yes. But the reason I picked it...

is to say something about his communication style. We see a lot of pics of him leading a rally or which emphasize his height. This picture is a way of saying that he is equally comfortable to hunker down and listen to others.

Here's another picture I like, of him listening to some soldiers from his constituency in Kuwait back in 2006.


The reason I post a few pictures here is that because the OP says he feels on the fence, and sometimes when you feel that way the best thing to do is get your chattering brain out of the way and listen to your subconscious.

[Deep13]

33. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

It shows he knows a good photo op when he sees one. They all do. There are dozens of photos like with with Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmon and Richard Nixon. It means nothing. Stop thinking with your feelings.

[anigbrowl]

37. Sorry it bothers you.

I have both thoughts and feelings. Generally I prefer to make a case by laying out facts, logic and reasons, but in this thread I've chosen a picture that expresses something about how I feel - that is not the same as deriving my feelings from a picture.

[Deep13]

45. Sorry for my harsh words.

I overreacted because I've become jaded by the tone of this campaign season. If Edwards were leading, I doubt we would be having these nasty arguements.

[mculator]

28. Ohio for Hillary

If you want your vote to count, vote Hillary. Otherwise it's just another vote in the same direction of the momentum right now.

[GPSrulesall]

31. Very true.

Dissent in the face of the national media, means you have taken a stand in something. This would also count if you voted for Obama in the face of a Clinton wave.

[Deep13]

35. H! H! H! H!

:patriot:

[Deep13]

32. You'll see O's warts when the Republicans start their general election campaign.

The media is treating him with kid gloves. Even if he doesn't have any real warts, the R's will make some up like they did 4 years ago. That gut feeling may be your subconscious asking, "What has Obama ever done?"

HC's warts are well known because she has been in the public eye for such a long time. The one wart O does have is his limited experience. He has been in the Senate 3 years now and has spent all of it campaigning for the presidency.

I am not going to urge you how to vote. Only you can decide that. I also won't suggest you follow your heart since this is really ought to be a thoughtful decision, not necessarily an emotional one. (That's how we got Bush.) I only offer the following observations.

Neither candidate is especially strong this year. The Rs have picked their best candidate. HC has the hatred that all social conservatives seem to have for her. O has the handicap of being much less experienced than McC. Plus McC has that whole war hero thing going.

They have similar views on the issues, especially when one considers that Congress will ultimately draft any proposed legislation. The only difference is that HC was part of an administration that pushed for NAFTA and HC voted for the IWR. O was not in the Senate then and we can only take him at his word that he would have voted "no" despite the fact that Kerry, Edwards, Biden and a number of other D's more liberal than him voted "yes."

There were, of course, reasons for voting for it, one being the rushed schedule Daschel imposed on the Senate to approve or reject it without time for a full investigation. This was months after 9/11 and the public believed Bush and wanted that authorization.

NAFTA has a bad rap. It may be bad, but not as bad as people say. In 1993, Bill Clinton pushed it as a necessity to end the recession and put the Federal govt's financial house in order. President Gore would likely have enforced our trade rights and fixed flaws in the treaty. Of course Bush has not done that. Frankly, considering how we have taken advantage of Latin America in the 20th century in pursuit of cheap oil, sugar and bananas, I don't think this small step to share the prosperity is too much to ask.

Whatever the reasons for Bill C's acceptance of NAFTA or HC's IWR vote, the purpose of this election is to see who can best manage in the future. Frankly, of the three candidates left, only HC has any Federal executive experience in an administration that presided over a vigorous economy. She was Bill C's closest adviser and the fact that he was married to her should not be used to discount that experience. Without a strong economy, the social and environmental programs we all support are just not possible. HC brings management ability to this race. O brings star power. By November, that star will be not so fresh. I backed other candidates earlier. Now that it is down to the bitch and a likable amateur, I have to side with experience. Bitches get things done.

My concern with O's star power is that the middle-class white voters who support him in the primary will turn toward McC if O can't convince them that he is able to manage the economy. Also, his apparent inability to deal with HC's mild criticism does not bode well for the general. HC has been in the U.S. Senate making personal connections for seven years. She was Pres. Clinton's adviser for another 8. On the other hand, O has been in the Senate for 3 years where he refused to take a position on several controversial votes. Before that he was in state government. Frankly, McC. will raise serious questions about O's competence and he will be right to do so.

I have a few purely personal reasons for supporting HC. One is that she raised a lot of money for my friend Sherrod Brown in his successful '06 U.S. Senate bid. The other is that middle-age aged professional women know that they had to work twice as hard as the men for fewer rewards. For HC to work at the company for 20 years and then be passed over for promotion by a newly hired, younger man is cruelly symbolic of the plight of working women. That just pisses me off personally. HC can't show her feminine side because it will be a weakness. Obama, on the other hand provides a feminine side he can safely show. Anytime HC criticizes O or points out an electoral weakness, she is vilified by the media and this website like she is some malicious gossip and not a senior member of this party. Really, do you think the Midwest states are going to elect someone named Hussein? Not when there is a perfectly good white, war hero standing there. I know it is stupid, but it will stick.

So, those are my thoughts. Goodluck on the 4th, Texas. My adopted home state of Ohio will be voting then too.
:patriot:

[crispini]

34. In my opinion, the way their campaigns have been conducted has told me a lot.

Hillary planned to win on Super Tuesday. She didn't have any kind of "Plan B" if she did not win. Her campaign has repeatedly skipped smaller states and caucuses in favor of trying to triangulate and calculate her way into a victory. Furthermore, I dislike the rumblings that she is going to ask to seat FL and MI. Those two states disenfranchised themselves and she should not be trying to hamstring Dean and the DNC on her way to a victory.

Obama has conducted a strategy of running in every state and letting every voter have a chance at seeing the campaign. Every state has mattered. His grassroots organization has been brilliant. He has consistently been positive and risen above the fray. His message is always about ideas and about big-picture and about values, which, as George Lakoff would tell you, is a message that works.

Some will say that the candidates don't run their campaign, their campaign managers do. To which I say horsepucky. Candidates choose their campaign managers and are always involved in overall message and strategy.

[ctaylors6]

38. I'm also undecided, altho starting to think Hillary's a blue chip, Obama's an IPO

I'm having trouble too identifying exactly why I'm leaning toward Hillary. To continue this analogy that keeps floating around in my brain, I feel like Obama is an IPO, albeit a promising one. Lots of good signs there, but a few red flags for me. Also, it may just be a risk/reward balance. I don't see that many significant differences in their policy positions, especially taking into account that no president's bill is enacted exactly as he/she proposes. There may be a chance of a bigger upside with Obama, but there are just more risks. We haven't seen his warts yet; we haven't seen him tested on national stage until this campaign. I'll also say that the McClurkin issue bothers me -- was that an isolated instance of extremely poor judgment, or the start of a pattern of the worst kind of pandering?
I'm not risk-averse, but when I make decisions for my family, for my kids, I don't think I'd put the kids' college money in an IPO.
I'm still thinking though. I'm not much of a computer person, but I registered on DU around Super Tuesday hoping that constructive debate would help me make up my mind. (Of course, I've ended up reading fewer threads than I thought I was going too :) .)

[sandnsea]

39. What kind of country do you want to live in

The kind the warts campaign presented to you. Or the hope of something else. Just what if the warts campaign really threw all the warts they could find, and there just wasn't anything there. What if there really is such a thing as a decent human being and we have a chance to put one in the White House. Do you really want to trade that for the warts you know??

[cags]

40. If Obama is the wart free person you say, he wouldn't be running for president... IMO

There is no such thing as a wart free politician... Some have less than others but they all have them. Power is not something wart free people aspire to. Change can be attained without having to go through that process of attaining power.

[sandnsea]

43. It sounds like you prefer cynicism

and there's nothing I can do about that. You see all the warts the Clintons have, and rather than draw the logical conclusion, that there are any number of people who do not have all those warts, you decide there are warts you just haven't seen yet.

Edwards? Dodd? Biden? Kucinich? Kerry? Gore? Feingold?

What are their warts?

Why do you really think Obama has to have warts, just because the Clintons do?

[jenmito]

44. He has a mole on the left side of his nose. Maybe that's all that's wrong with him...

You know the Clintons would have shown us whatever Obama's "warts" ARE by now since they're almost losing beyond the point of recovery. I don't think you should vote for Hillary just because Obama is a better candidate and you have a "gut" feeling.

[Deep13]

42. The president will not define the country.

Frankly, it ought to be the other way around.

[sandnsea]

47. Well yes, the President does

Why the hell do you think we're living in the mess we're living in? Why do you think racism has become more and more acceptable in recent years? Crime is rising? Murders are rising? The tone that is set at the top trickles through the rest of society.

[Deep13]

50. I think Bush has implemented disasterous policies and Congress let him.

I think that is why we are circling the drain.

I guess my thoughts on this matter are influenced by a distress at seeing Congressional primacy which was envisioned by the Founders subverted by an imperial presidency.

[FrenchieCat]

46. The dirt on Obama is actually quite long.......if we are to practice the politics of hate.....

He's Black
He's young
His name is Barack Hussein Obama
He doesn't wear a Flag Pin.
He's got little time in Washington


But the good is overwhelming -
Sound judgement on the Iraq War from the getgo
Lotsa good work done in Illinois
Brings in tons of new voters
Isn't related to the last Democratically elected President.
Even with all stacked against him, he's still been able to weather the Clinton Machine.


Other Goods stuff about Obama that shows him not to be a passing fancy:
Ted Kennedy
Patrick Leahy
John Conyers
Robert Wexler
Russ Feingold
Barbara Lee
John Kerry
Caroline Kennedy
Christopher Todd
Joan Baez
The Nation
Move-on.org
Grateful Dead
Toni Morrison
George Clooney
Bill Bradley
Gary Hart
George Miller
David Obey
Cornel West
George Soros
SEIU
Teamster U
Tom Hayden
Ségolène Royal, former French Socialist presidential candidate <[br />Michael Ignatieff, Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada<[br />
For a more complete listing, including Newspaper endorsements -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign_endorsements#Senators

[NC_Nurse]

48. I understand how you feel about "the warts you know", but I guess the

whole argument seems kind of fear-based to me. Like you're afraid to actually believe in a candidate
so you'll take the one you already know what your disappointments are. Like not wanting to fear another shoe to drop.
I don't know, but it seems to me that if something big was looming, Hillary would have brought it up by now. I have
been amazed at what an incompetent campaign she has run, which kind of leads me to doubt her claims of being the
more competent, tested candidate.

I was an Edwards supporter, but I have been very impressed with Obama and when I learned more about him and watched him in action
I knew he was the right choice for me. I want someone eloquent and inspiring. We're going to need that to pull this country out of the
hole it's in after Bush.

Good luck with your decision. :-)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. Here's where I started

Hillary:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Obama:

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I found reading DU to be as pointless as listening to the local Republicans.

If you've already read the above information then pick issues that are near and dear to your heart and probe those further.

In the end make an educated decision based on the facts as you perceive them.

I've learned this voting cycle that there's a great amount of responsibly attached to being a nationally relevant state. It's been stressful.

:hi: Neighbor!

[Forkboy]

51. Follow your heart and your instincts no matter which one it leads to.

:toast: