ENOUGH with the 'Obama is just empty rhetoric' bullshit

[Hugabear]

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

This notion that Obama is simply spewing rhetoric without any actual plans is nonsense, and it's right out of the right-wing playbook. This is exactly what rethugs have been accusing Democrats of over the past few years, running on the "anyone but Bush" theme. They conveniently ignored the fact that we had actual ideas, they kept running with that hollow slogan. Now the exact same bullshit is being leveled against Obama.

Obama has deliberately centered his campaign around hope and change. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT. They've been beaten down over the past eight years! So what is so fucking wrong with a candidate who comes along promising them hope and change? Isn't that what we WANT from our Democratic candidates? But at the same time, Obama DOES have substance. You can agree or disagree with his ideas and solutions, but to say they don't exist is disingenuous at best. His website details his ideas for over TWENTY different issues, ranging from health care to education to bringing our troops home from Iraq.

He HAS substance. Try thinking for yourself, and not relying on Hillary soundbites!

[DemzRock]

1. Sounds good. I will believe it when I see some results, if he gets elected. n/t

[jlake]

2. Sorry. but he doesn't. He gives speeches He did not write. He doesn't understand his

policies and earmarks.
He is just a figurehead for the Old Chicago machine... "change" my ass!

[Alamom]

3. Yep. www.newsmeat.com /ceo_political_donations /Tony_Rezko.php

http://www.newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/Tony_Rezko.php

[DemzRock]

7. You might be right. I hope not, but you might be. Seriously all I see

is a really good speaker. Maybe that and good advisors is all you need though. Hell, W was a bad speaker with bad advisors so... Maybe this is what you need. But if he gets elected and does poorly in office, then it it will hurt the Demz bad. Only time will tell.

Still it's hard to imagine anyone worse than W, huh?

[Hawaii Hiker]

15. All politicans have speech writers

:banghead:

If Hillary is our nominee, I will vote for her, because the goal at the end of the day is to defeat that bastard John McCain....

I just wish some of the Hillary supporters would realize Obama is not the enemy, John McCain is!...

[jlake]

18. But not all politicians are worshipped for their oratory skills.....Obama's slogans

are meaningless.

[Recursion]

38. Do you think "oratory" means "speechwriting"?

God, what has education become in America that people don't know the difference between those two?

[jlake]

43. I know what it means - but for words to have *any* meaning they have to come

from the person using them..... is that so hard to understand?

[Recursion]

45. Do you understand how speechwriters work?

The candidate and his or her communications team come up with what they want to talk about and their main rhetorical "hooks". The speechwriter writes them out.

You think Obama didn't shape these speeches?

[jlake]

46. That's right. I think he did not.

[Recursion]

48. Well, there we are then

Not much else to say

[jlake]

49. Hire a speechwriter.

[Recursion]

56. Used to work as one n/t

[jlake]

57. Then it's particularly sad that you have nothing left to say.

[Recursion]

58. Whatever

You state, not only with no evidence but contrary to plenty of evidence, that he isn't closely involved in the writing of his speeches.

It's like arguing with a creationist; at some point you just have to pat them on the head and let them go on their merry way.

[superkia]

39. There has been allot of corruptuion in politics and I think that...

many Americans are waking up to whats being done to our country. I think the turnout and the votes for Obama are not people that are ignorant and worship speeches, I think they are finally seeing that the Clintons are a part of the elite and they are hoping that Obama isn't one of the corrupted politicians. All of the mudslinging and nonsense that worked in the past isn't working and the elite and the Clintons didn't expect the American public to wake up to it. Clinton and McCain will have to steal the election like Bush did, if they want to get in office. I wish more people would wake up to the reality of whats happening to our country so we can ALL live free again. If you aren't a part of the elite and powerful, it will eventually hit home to you too.


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

[jlake]

44. Obama has already come for the GLBTQ community..... who is next?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

33. RE: He is just a figurehead for the Old Chicago machine...

Can you substantiate that claim?

I asked my brother in law about it and he just rolled his eyes and laughed.

Of course brother in law is from Chicago.



edited for clarity and the :RE

[jlake]

36. You do realize that the campaign is run by Dayley's guys and David Axelrod - right?

You can't get much more Old Style Chicago Politics than that.

[cliffordu]

37. Name the 'Dayleys' guys' please. N/T

[elias7]

55. Perhaps he has so much style that you miss the substance

I am tempted to speculate that you may lack substance for not being able to recognize it in someone else, blinded as you seem to be to your own emotional dislike of the man, dressing it up in aggressive rationalization.

I think he does write a lot of his speeches. His writing skills are well documented:

From Wiki:

Obama has written two bestselling books. The first, Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance, was published before he first ran for public office. Obama explains that he had hoped the story of his family "might speak in some way to the fissures of race that have characterized the American experience, as well as the fluid state of identity—the leaps through time, the collision of cultures—that mark our modern life." Time magazine's Joe Klein wrote that the book "may be the best-written memoir ever produced by an American politician."

His second book, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream, was published in October 2006. Gary Hart describes the book as Obama's "thesis submission" for the U.S. presidency: "It presents a man of relative youth yet maturity, a wise observer of the human condition, a figure who possesses perseverance and writing skills that have flashes of grandeur."

This Columbia and Harvard Law grad may be many things you don't like, but I don't follow the lack of substance argument.

[Skip Intro]

4. His hallmark words are but empty slogans. This is becomning apparent to many.

Balloons are pretty, especially with happy words written on them in glitter, but in the end, they are empty inside.

[SOS]

52. Look! 800 pretty ballons....

[Avalux]

5. I watched a clip of him interrogating Patreus. He knows his stuff.

Regardless of what people say about me (without knowing me), I did a lot of research and pondered my decision for a long time before supporting Obama. His message is exactly what we need at this time in our country's history. I fail to understand the argument from some that a message of hope and an understanding of the issues are exclusive - they are not. Obama has both and that's what makes him unique and the right person at the right time.

[polichick]

6. This was discussed on NPR this morning....

One guest pointed out, correctly in my opinion, that people understand the candidates' stated policies will look quite different after going through the legislative process ~ they are not choosing based on the details of healthcare or the details of any other policy position, but on feeling empowered and good about their country again.

It was also pointed out that there are actually more details on Obama's site than Clinton's ~ and, importantly, that Obama knows what people want from personal appearances, and that's not policy details but to feel excited and involved.

One guest told a story about a five-year-old, who said to his parents, "If Obama comes to town, can we go to the concert?"

[DemzRock]

12. OMG - that's about it, isn't it?

>> One guest told a story about a five-year-old, who said to his parents, "If Obama comes to town, can we go to the concert?" <<

Still, anyone but McBush!

[Marrah_G]

16. We just went through the same wake up call in MA- Words mean nothing unless they become action

Unfortunately for all the good intentions....there is a Senate and Congress who have more influence on much of both candidates platforms.

[polichick]

21. The thing there, though, is Obama's easy-to-get-along with attitude...

...will probably help in getting others to come toward him in crafting legislation ~ just as we see Republicans signing on to the campaign now.

[Marrah_G]

23. Some said the same about Gov Patrick.

Sorry- same personality same words.... I simply do not trust the result will not be the same.

Obama to me has lots of good intentions, lots of pretty words and that's it. He does not inspire me at all.

I do not dislike him, I will vote for him in the GE if he is the nom, but during the primary he does not have my support in this election.

[Labors of Hercules]

51. So, what would he have to do to prove to you that he...

will be a better President than Hillary?

[Marrah_G]

59. I want to hear about the things he can actually do. Not hope, not change.

I want a little damn realism. Idealism is something I can't af

[BOSSHOG]

8. Interesting post

You say he campaigns as an empty suit intentionally but you get all beside yourself when someone points that out. Very funny. Are you saying that if he put forth his "substance" in the campaign he wouldn't win? Very interesting indeed.

I'm inspired by neither of the candidates left and will write in General Clarks name when I vote next month. I will also enthusiastically and with substance support the dem candidate.

[Marrah_G]

9. To me it is empty rhetoric until I see otherwise. I will not be fooled twice by the same words.

[jakem]

10. how dissappointing for clintons supporters-

to be struggling against a candidate with apparently no platform!

get a grip people.

:rofl:

[jlake]

13. It's not that he has no platform, it's that he has *every* platform.

[Marrah_G]

17. Yes- it is.

[rodeodance]

11. Yawn--yet another lecture.

[CyberPieHole]

14. I'm sorry if the CULT of Obama can't handle the truth...but Obama is all hot~air...

Please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[cliffordu]

35. Hot air with a five point lead -N/T

[Greyskye]

53. If the Clinton campaign can't win against a "hot air" candidate...

...you expect to actually win against the GOP machine?

This has got to be the silliest political argument ever.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. ~ * ~

[mtnsnake]

26. LOL!!

[backscatter712]

20. Obama's in a tricky position.

The problem is that the meaty stuff, the actual plans, the wonky policy work is not soundbite friendly. And if he spends too much time detailing his plans in his speeches, his speeches will be dreadfully boring. So he leaves the details out of the stump speeches.

What is soundbite-friendly is what you're hearing - "Yes, we can!" and "Got hope?" That's what sells. That's what gets voters fired up.

You're not going to hear the gory details of his health care reform if you're just watching his stump speeches. But if you're interested, he does have position papers and such that do get into the wonky details on his web site.

[flyarm]

22. obama college course 101..how to propagandize you..in 1 easy lesson..

just check it out here ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779044&mesg_id=4779044

these college kids have it all figured out for you adults..without ever having paid a bill or one health insurance bill!!

fly

[xchrom]

24. i don't think his suit is empty -- i think he's got donnie mcclurkin in there.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

42. Boooooo....

[mtnsnake]

25. Obama is all an illusion

but enjoy yourself in thinking he's actually going to change anything if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[BenDavid]

29. well gee, I always thought obama was an empty suit, and now

we see that according to michelle obama that barack is going to repair all the holes in the souls of all americans. wow! maybe obama needs to "heal thyself" first.

so the american people have been beaten down these last few years and the way to restore their energy is to elect another simpleton like g w bush? obama is so like carter and if he is elected he will be gone like carter after 4 years and we will have republicans for the next 12 to 16 years.....

DON'T BLAME ME - I VOTED FOR THE MOST QUALIFIED - WHO HAPPENED TO BE A WOMAN.

[Bluestar]

30. So, then, where is this substance?

Instead of yelling at us that we are spouting right wing talking points, as an Obama supporter, please tell us, why doesn't he come up with something of substance? I'm trying hard to drink the koolaid, I want to be inspired. But all I see is someone who speechifies and preaches, I see no substance. People are calling for substance and he's not giving it, so that makes me suspicious that he doesn't have any idea what he will do if elected.

[Hugabear]

54. Try reading the friggin' post

I gave you the link. There is plenty of info there. And yes, it's HIS site.

All you and every other Hillary supporter has proven to me in this thread is that you're simply parroting the talking points that Hillary dishes out in her speeches. I've given you the resources to check out his stances on plenty of issues, so if you come back with this "where is this substance" it just proves that you have no interest in seeking the truth.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. I Watched His Rally Last Night On CSPAN. He Did Really Well.

Sure he has substance, and he's actually a really good candidate. I think his star is shining much brighter than he's earned, but he's not by a long shot an empty candidate either. I still think Hillary would make the better President and would do better in the GE, but he's most definitely got some good potential. I just hope he can handle what will be coming his way.

[Tarc]

32. Truth hurts, eh O-Bot?

[Seabiscuit]

34. I came to the "empty rhetoric" conclusion all by myself as an Edward supporter.

Don't blame Hillary for that. Blame Obama.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

40. ENOUGH with the speeches and the big rallies!!

[NastyRiffraff]

41. Well, you know, it's not either-or; substance OR inspiration

You can have both. My problem with Obama is that he only delivers one. I'm not against the "Hope and Change" message per se; who can be against that? My problem is that he emphasizes nothing else. He seems to me like a slick, beautifully packaged marketing program. I feel like a consumer as target of an ad campaign rather than an educated voter when I watch him.

The preaching puts me off, too, as does the "Jesus Camp" feel of some of his audience.

I'm not saying he's a completely empty suit; his people have put together some policy papers for him, which we're all urged to look at on his web site. But he's not great at presenting them off the cuff, and he doesn't usually present them in his pre-packaged speeches.

[RememberWellstone]

47. Barrack Dukakis

Right..we ain't gonna drink the kool-aid twice..no thank you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. ~ * ~ .............