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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:16 PM
Original message
"You Can Like Him And Still Not Vote For Him"
"You can like him and still note vote for him."

"You can respect him and admire him and still note vote for him."

"You can marvel at his life story and his eloquence still not vote for him."

"You can applaud his message and his ideals and still not vote for him."

"You can believe that he is sincere and means well, and still not vote for him."

"You can believe all those things and still vote for me."

"You can vote for me. Because I respect and admire him too. And I marvel at his life story and his eloquence and applaud his mesage and ideals and believe he's sincere and means well for this nation."

"But I believe I can offer you more. I believe I can do good work for this nation as president and I believe Barack can do good work for this nation as senator."


--

This is how I would have campaigned against Barack Obama if I were Hillary Clinton.

Instead of trying to disprove all that people see in him. Instead of trying to tear his image down. Instead of trying to slime him and sully him and make people think he's something he's not.


I would have just simply stated the obvious. He's a good man who we all, as Democrats, admire and like, but that doesn't mean you have to vote for him.

--

Just keep it simple, and non-negative.

Why was I able to figure this out but all her million-dollar campaign consultants couldn't?

Don't attack hope. Embrace and say, "but that doesn't mean you have to vote for him."

And don't sound like a jerk when you do it, either.

Simple.

You're not attacking him. You're not attacking his supporters. You're just stating the obvious, and planting a seed of choice in their minds that there's nothing wrong with voting for someone else.

That's what I would have done. But what do I know. I don't get paid millions to run a campaign into the ground.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Positive campaigning.... what a trip
:grouphug:
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Mezzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Punjab Memo...sent by the Obama camp
very positive indeed.
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jmg257 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. We KNOW there is nothing wrong with voting for someone else - we just choose not to.
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Just words! n/t
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Obama confuses the WaPo - with the funniest poll I have ever seen:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/25/172738/474/833/463930

The lead editorial in Sunday’s Washington Post is called The Obama Enigma. Echoing a column by David Ignatius last week called The Obama Mystery, the editorial complains that Obama has failed in his duty to label himself according to the conventions of our current politics.

When the Illinois Democrat talks about bringing together red and blue America, does he mean that he will persuade the red (Republican) part to come around to blue (Democratic) policies -- or does he mean that he will forge a new, centrist answer that will bridge the red-blue divide? Is he a liberal at heart who tacks occasionally to the center or more of a centrist capable of suppressing leftist instincts when political circumstances demand?


Here we see Fred Hiatt and the rest of the Post’s editorial board – the high priests of acceptable DC opinion, the wise men who endorsed Clinton’s impeachment and Bush’s war – working hard to assimilate new information.

Join me after the jump for a look at how their musings can help us understand Obama’s politics from a more progressive point of view.


... and the poll at the bottom:

Poll

Obama baffles the Post because

- He's liberal but he smells nice

- Politics is supposed to be boring; that's why we manufacture scandals

- Young people only read the Style section

- What's wrong with "politics as usual"?

- Is Karl really gone? Can we come out now? Will he hit us?

- Pie


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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes!
And that tactic doesn't divide the party or hurt Obama's GE campaign if he is indeed the nominee.

:applause:

She could have backed up the "I'm honored to be running with Obama" with "but he is not ready for the challenges ahead..."

or something like that.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think if that was her message she would have lost every state. Issue based campaigning
not focused on Obama's strong points.

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree in part
but you need to also address the basic conversation of this race.

She countered his "hope and change" with "experience." After eight years of Bush, that wasn't the argument.

"Toughness and courage" would have been a better dynamic for her. Courage to take the system on and make change. That would have hit him in a weak spot: people are unsure how tough he is. It also would have amplified her strengths: toughness, and allowed her to be herself and have the message resonate. You can also make "courage and toughness" hopeful and optimistic. Not so easy to do with "experience."
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. "experience" was to Hillary what "competence" was to Dukakis...
...it was a lame argument... that is tone-deaf to the pulse of the public.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I think that misses the larger point that she never factored in
which was how many people just found him flat-out more likeable than her. And likeability goes a looooooong way in picking a president. You're going to be seeing them on tv every day for maybe the next 8 years. Even if you don't agree with them on everything, you still want to not find them irritating.

I think when Hillary goes negative, she comes across as irritating.

She should not try to contrast herself with him, so much as make the simple point that, yes, he is what he says he is, but that may not be enough to be worth voting for.

Don't try to tell people what they're seeing isn't true. Then you come across like that old saying "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes."
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That's how most people choose a President
they don't give a flying fig about the issues. Which in this race, was highlighted even more because they ran on virtually identical platforms. So the entire dynamic was the conversation between them. And she never answered his very first volley effectively. He is a better candidate than she. He is also better at disguising the darker and more unlikable side to his personality, something she is chronically unable to accomplish.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. true
Edited on Mon Feb-25-08 07:44 PM by Magic Rat
he is a very disciplined candidate.

Funny, when you think about her and her husband.

Bill was a very disciplined politician and completely undisciplined person.

Hillary seems almost exactly the opposite. A disciplined person and completely undisciplined politician.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. You give it to her for free but she'd rather
pay in the million$$$$ to go rat hole negative. She musta got too scared.

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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. I bet you would've done it for a lot less than $3.8 million too..
....
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. at most, $2.8 million
;)
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, you've convinced me! I'm not voting for him!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Awesome post....I too tried to contact the dudes on her camp...to no avail
not even a response.....3 x I tried....that was 3 weeks ago....now.....I am going to vote Obama....I remain convinced Hillary can be a good president,,,,,

so can Obama be....

who would be better? Who knows

But who campaigns better? Take a guess...

Does this mean he will really do be a good president??? The odds say he will...and be a lot better than the shrub....

Time.....will be the judge
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. A-f**king-men. Kicked and recommended.
You hit the nail on the head. Being positive would have been the way to go for her. Who could have argued or taken offense at that? You might disagree with her on policy, but you certainly wouldn't on tone.

But the entire Clinton campaign platform has consisted of a combination of hubris and old politics, which has been the problem from the get go. The inevitability strategy, the only-big-states-count strategy, the idea that negative campaigning works against Obama... It's almost like they insist on trying to win the "old politics" way, that they refuse to embrace anything else.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. Or maybe
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 01:03 AM by the dogfish
you could get a grip.

Seriously.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. What other presidential candidate has ever campaigned that way INCLUDING Obama?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
20. I have about as much"hope"in Obama's promised "change"as I did in Bush's"compassionate conservatism"
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. That subject line gets more and more insightful the more you spam it.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. it's a pretty damn good line eh?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Not the adjective I would use, but go for it.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I would have used "Brilliant " but I am much to shy
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. I agree. Attempting character assassination on Obama was suicide.
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