Kucinich not invited to unity dinner

[eridani]

Whassup with that? Of course he is still campaigning, but he has said he will support the eventual nominee.

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~2033810,00.html

Democrats plan to hold unity dinner

By Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- The Democratic National Committee's "Unity Dinner" on
Thursday will celebrate the party's determination to bury differences
and rally behind Sen. John F. Kerry.

Former Presidents Clinton and Carter, who have had their differences
over the years, will be there. National Building Museum. Also present
will be all of this year's Democratic presidential candidates, minus
one. Rep. Dennis Kucinich was not invited, a DNC official said,
because he is still campaigning and not preaching party unity.

[TheDonkey]

1. Good move

Kucinich should do a Sharpton. Keep campaigning but endorse and positvely hype Kerry.

The nominee has been mathematically picked.

[Rowdyboy]

2. Duh....

Its a UNITY dinner....

[Dookus]

3. he can drop out and endorse Kerry today

and he'll be invited tomorrow. Until then, he doesn't belong at a "unity" dinner.

[mobuto]

4. Kucinich will be invited to all such events

just as soon as he unites behind the Democratic nominee. He can take all the time he wants. But at this point, he's just running a vanity campaign and is not helping the Democratic cause.

[dogman]

5. Probably serving meat anyway.

Maybe he can come later for dessert.

[JI7]

6. the dinner is for those who support Kerry now

although i don't have a problem with him being there myself.

[scarletwoman]

7. "...not preaching party unity."

Yep, he's preaching old time Democratic values, which most of these "united" Democrats wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Just think, ol' Holy Joe Bush enabler Lieberman will be there. Ah, unity! :P

sw

[Dookus]

8. Yup

Unity. Stick your tongue out all you want, but there's a time for division and a time for unity. Now is the time for unity. He's still running AGAINST Kerry. He doesn't belong there.

[dweller]

10. how close the divide between there

and here.

thanks dookus for reminding me why i can't don't and never vote repuke.

lockstep ain't my path.
dp

[Dookus]

11. You can call it "lockstep"

but that's silly. There were primaries. Kerry won overwhelmingly. He's the nominee. Democrats ought to support the nominee now. Beating the opponent is more important now than ever before in my lifetime.

[dweller]

21. "he doesn't belong there" --- funny

that sounds like something i might have heard outside the big tent.

primaries or no, turning away this early the many voices that are still awaiting Nov. real vote privilege does not bode unity.
Those votes will count too. If any do, that is.

dp

[Kanary]

26. You've also reminded me why I don't belong in the Party.

You exclusive Dems just don't play well with others, and certainly don't welcome everyone to your exclusive table. Your very language says that in spades, Doooooooookus.

Before you shoot out some retaliatory revenge post at me, just know that I got your message, loud and clear. So did many others. Then you'll wonder why there aren't more people registered and voting.

Your sig image is soooo fitting.

Kanary

[sangh0]

60. Your name-calling won't make us forget the primary voters

You exclusive Dems just don't play well with others, and certainly don't welcome everyone to your exclusive table.

It's not our fault Kucinich has so much of a problem with the democratic process that he and his supporters can't acknowledge the desires of the majority of Democratic primary voters.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

65. and more name-calling (plus potty talk) won't help

and I will denigrate anyone who refuses to acknowledge the desires of the majority of Democratic primary voters. I have no patience for authoritarianism, and I don't care if it comes from the left or the right.

Go away

Try giving your orders to someone who might listen.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

68. Nope, listening to authoritarian arguments is not my strong point

Never has been, never will be, even if it means that Dems will lose the support of a handful of authoritarian leftists who can't respect the the votes of the majority because they know what's best for everyone.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

69. you are, but what am I?!

Contradict yourself much?

"I will denigrate anyone who refuses to acknowledge the desires of the majority of Democratic primary voters."

then

"I have no patience for authoritarianism"

:shrug:


TWL

[sangh0]

70. Hardly ever

Where do you see a contradiction? Don't tell me you think my ability to denigrate is a sign of authoritarianism?

Denigration, criticism, etc is a form of freedom.

[Dhalgren]

71. Hey, my state hasn't had its primary yet.

Is it o.k. if I get to vote, or do you just want to call off the remaining primaries? This is becoming such a joke. Democrats? Yeah, right. I am leaning more and more toward voting for some other party. I have been a voting Democrat for 32 years and worked on the McCarthy campaign in '68, but I am seriously considering voting my heart and my conscience. And don't tell me that that will help Bush, because the Democratic Party is giving him all the help he needs.

[sangh0]

72. Sure, go ahead and vote

I can't imagine what sort of twisted logic left you thinking I was calling for a cancellation of primaries.

[Dhalgren]

74. Several posters here have said repetedly

that "the primaries are over". That "Kerry is the nominee" - that would indicate that the remaining primaries are immaterial. If so, then screw unity, if the Party is only concerned with "crowning" the annointed one, then they can have him.

[sangh0]

77. Ever hear of "rhetoric"?

Maybe you should take those phrases just a little less literally.

Or maybe I should exploit your use of the word "crowning" to argue that you are a royalist? (Not really. I'm just making the point of how one can literally interpret someone else's words to misportray their intent)

[dogman]

9. Did you have to mention Joe

there went my dessert.:puke:

[eridani]

13. He is helping the party attract the votes that will put Kerry over the top

And if Kerry and the others are too stupid to see that, all they can hope for is a tie with Bush.

Dean and Kucinich (and to some extent Clark) are the only candidates that actually have self-organized volunteer bases. Many, particularly those backing Kucinich, are Greens, independents and others who have not been involved in electoral politics at all. Particularly as that last group includes 50% of the voting age population, Democrats really need to pay attention here. To keep these people on board, the Democrats must pay attention to their issues, particularly with Nader now polling 7%. Kucinich has always been committed to working within the Democratic Party, but like everyone else, he has doesn’t have a clue about how to herd cats. This is the debate now going on among Kucinich volunteers.

From a Kucinich listserv 3/16/04

To whoever said Dennis is pulling a "Bait and Switch" tactic.

You seem to have not been paying attention to this campaign. First, Dennis is and always has been a Democrat. He is not interested in creating third parties, but strengthening the Democratic Party and invigorating its progressive base. That has always been his goal, along with waking the mainstream up to the abuses of both the Republican assault on the environment, the working people, and human rights around the world, and the DLC abuses within our own Party, pushing a "moderate" (read conservative) agenda. Dennis will support John Kerry, but on his terms, and with the backing of thousands, millions, of progressive Democrats who believe what he believes and want to change the party in the same ways.

That's us. Our role is not to drop out and join the Greens or the Naderites in their quixotic journey to obscurity. (This journey doesn't have to be to obscurity if they used a grass roots common sense approach of party building from below, gaining inroads in local elections and working up to multi-party State legislatures and eventually Congress, with great coalition possibilities).

But right now, third Party candidates for President can only hurt the progressive movement within the Democratic Party and Dennis' efforts at reform. And yes, help Bush be re-elected.

If you support Dennis, support his causes and issues, and help him change the Party.

If you also support the Greens, help them at the local level. It's a long process, but one that will pay dividends for all Americans (and the world as a whole).

Getting rid of George Bush is job one right now, along with our own efforts at strengthening the Progressive message within the Party.

If any of you are interested in this effort and creating a real organizing tool to effect it, possibly a PAC for (small d) democratic Action, please let me know.

----Stick With The Dems Advocate #1

It is imperative that the Democrats move toward a Progressive agenda to keep the party together and to add to its base of motivated voters and campaigners, i.e. former Greens, after their supposed "Quixotic journey to obscurity" or their giving into Democratic fear mongering.

Only the Democrats can help the Democrats. If they choose not to move toward a progressive agenda then the Democratic Party has no one to blame but the Democratic Party if they once again fail to blow a moron (and now proven liar) like Bush out of the water and the race. The last time they had this chance, with incumbency in their corner, they failed to win several states they should have won, including Gore's home state. The Gore campaign pulled the money out of Ohio just when things were moving forward. Gore allowed Florida to be the "deciding" state. And from this they tried to blame the Greens and Nader who were standing for the things that the Democrats should have been standing for. And hence the onset of their supposed "quixotic journey to obscurity."

No I don't believe Kucinich plans to leave the Democratic Party. But I do know that I will not support any other Democrat candidate for President but Kucinich. I would support him as a Green or anywhere
if he chose to run as one in the future. But I will not follow him in support of Kerry and the downfall of America.

A choice between war and war is no choice.
A choice between draft and draft is no choice.
A choice between NAFTA and NAFTA is no choice.
A choice between WTO and WTO is no choice.
A choice between Patriot Act supporter and Patriot Act supporter is no choice.
A choice between an elite and an elite is no choice.

I also believe that if the Democrats do not take a Progressive stance on these issues of great importance this will be (to steal a phrase) their quixotic journey to obscurity. And possibly the end of US Constitution and America.

----*Bleep* The Dems Advocate #1

A choice between pro-choice and pro-life IS a choice.
A choice between pro-environment and pro-pollution and the end of our world as we know it IS a choice.

----Stick With The Dems Advocate #2

Kerry is sponsored by corporate American just like Bush. So why should I expect any difference from Kerry than what Bush has done? I don't know about Kerry's choice stance. But if you think one reason is enough to vote for Kerry then go for it. But ask yourself why did you support Dennis if that is all you cared about? One issue is not enough for me to accept war, debt, lies, US Patriot Act, etc.... It is reasoning like, one issue politics that keeps the Democrats drifting right. If this group is turning into an I want Kerry group I will be leaving soon.

----*Bleep* The Dems Advocate #1

I was ready to vote for bozo the clown to get rid of Bush when I went nominee shopping. I was floored that Dennis Kucinich existed and threw my soul into working for his campaign. He is a dream come true. Unfortunately, Kerry got the 50% of the delegates needed to win the nomination.

Scientists are saying that the #1 world threat is global warming. Kerry's environmental record is exemplary. For this reason alone, I'll vote for Kerry. It's a plus he's pro-choice. Is he my ideal candidate? No, he isn't. Does the Skull &Bones thing bother me? You bet it does. Regardless, I trust him on the environment. I absolutely do not trust Dubya. If I thought voting 3rd party would unseat old Georgie boy, I'd vote 3rd party but I know the current system is not set up for a 3rd party to win, therefore I will vote for Kerry - for his environmental record and pro-choice stance - and I will work to get the party back to the left. I am running for State Legislator this year. How about you? Wanna take a stab and do the same?

----Stick With The Dems Advocate #2


Hey 'unifiers' --do you want the advocates for the Democratic Party to win this debate, or not? It’s really easy to do. Support Kucinich delegates all the way to Boston. Incorporate issues we advocate into the platform, especially health care for all and fair trade.

[Dookus]

14. People

with half of one percent of the delegates don't write the platform.

[eridani]

16. Either listen to that 1/2 of one percent

or have another tied general election settled by the Supreme Court. Were you paying attention to whose positions got the loudest cheers at the debates, or not?

[Dookus]

17. cheers don't equal votes

DK got about 3% of the vote. I don't think the Democrats are well-served giving up the 20% in the middle for that 3%. The primary campaign is over - Kerry won. Either get behind him or get out of the way.

But the point of this thread is simply that he doesn't belong at a Unity dinner, and I haven't heard any argument that he SHOULD be invited.

[eridani]

20. Right. Fears = votes

Fear that people dare not ask for universal health care and an end to their jobs being outsourced, fear that despite a considerable amount of statistical evidence to the contrary, that they are alone in supporting those positions. Marginalization of your basic FDR Democrat has been going on for a long time.

Kerry has a lock on the people who thought they might be voting for that 'Jim Barry' guy, who they'd heard was the most 'electable.' That isn't going to be enough, as the Rethugs do the fear thing ever so much better.

[Dookus]

22. nonsense....

I'm not trying to marginalize anybody. I'm simply expecting reasonable people on the far left to realize that they'll get SOME of what they want with Kerry. They'll get NONE of what they want with Bush.

[eridani]

24. That is what Kucinich is trying to argue

He's working very hard to bring in the 'far left' to that line of thought, and the only encouragement he gets is to get told to go to hell.

'Far left' these days anyway, is real universal health care, chosen over Bush tax cuts by 86% of Democrats and 51% of Republicans. What half of Republicans are in favor of is 'too far left'--how much more degraded can political discourse get, anyway?

[Dookus]

27. You're picking the positions that are popular...

he has others that are NOT so popular.

[revcarol]

28. Like getting our troops home?Mfso would disagree.

Like not accelerating losing jobs to the LW(lowest wage) countries by keeping the NAFTA and WTO agreements going until ALL the jobs except low wage service jobs are gone.

Sooooo unpopular...especially with ordinary Democrats...

[Dookus]

31. actually

an immediate withdrawal from Iraq *IS* unpopular.
If DK's positions were so popular, he'd have done a lot better than he did in the primaries.

[eridani]

34. He has never proposed unconditional withdrawal

He has advocated putting the UN in first. And he has confronted the absolute impossibility of achieving the only real goal of the invasion. If Kerry et al don't get with reality here, we are in real trouble.

The issue is completely separate from the question of how to get Iraq stable enough to remove outside forces. It ought to be plain to anyone by now that removal of WMDs, and even removal of Saddam, was never the administration goal. They tell the truth among themselves, though they rarely disseminate it in the teevee prolefeed put out for popular consumption.

The American goal in Iraq happens to be a large permanent military presence in Iraq. It absolutely cannot be achieved, other than by locking down the population with methods that would make Saddam Hussein look like Mother Teresa. What will the Democratic Party platform have to say about this?

The goal, direct from the horses’ mouths--

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17923

Garner added, ''Look back on the Philippines around the turn of the 20th century: they were a coaling station for the navy, and that allowed us to keep a great presence in the Pacific. That's what Iraq is for the next few decades: our coaling station that gives us great presence in the Middle East.”

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759

As for Iraq's alleged "weapons of mass destruction", these were dismissed, in so many words, as a convenient excuse, which it is. "While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification," it says, "the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

Houston, we have a problem. This is what the most influential leader of 60% of the Iraqi population (the 60% that has been relatively quiet about the occupation so far, by the way) thinks about that. It is pretty clear that the ‘coaling station’ goal is absolutely unacceptable to him and the people he speaks for.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5757.htm

Iraqi Shiite Leader Seyyid Ali Al-Sistani yesterday warned that he would call for an intifada (uprising) if American soldiers stayed in Iraq after the handover of power on June 30, 2004. He also insisted that there should be a significant role for the Shiite in the future administration of the country, as they make up the majority of the population.

Sistani spoke to the German magazine Der Spiegel and said: "The U.S. presence in Iraq should not be prolonged. The Iraqi public knows how to act. If the U.S. presence is drawn out longer than necessary, I will call for an intifada." The necessary posters reportedly have already been printed and are awaiting distribution to every corner of the country.

Even if someone can negotiate with Sistani to postpone this, it is clear that the occupation cannot stand in the long run. What are the plans if the situation blows up before the election, if any? If it comes to a head in the first year of a Kerry administration, then what? If unauditable voting machines put Bush in again, what will the Democratic leadership do? What will happen to our troops over there if the situation blows sky-high?

Start thinking, now, everyone. Let’s not get caught by surprise. As long as Kucinich is in the race, he will be pushing everyone else to think seriously about this.

[JohnKleeb]

35. thanks for the links eridani

I really wish Kerry would consider this. Kerry should consider this honest.

[flaminbats]

37. An excellent point...

this really could be an unity conference if Senator Kerry would take just a little time to meet with Kucinich. A few minor concessions in the party platform would not harm Kerry politically, and would likely result in an early endorsement from Kucinich.

But this choice lies with Kerry, Kucinich will not dropout until his voice is heard. :hippie:

[JohnKleeb]

38. You wont see me calling for Kucinich to drop out

All I wish is that people try to see that Kerry aint so bad and has some great qualities. I think Kucinich and Kerry prolly respect each other. That said my problems with Kerry are that hes a little more hawkish than me and hes a believer in free trade. I wont call for Kucinich to withdraw, hell this is the man who made me believe again, and I have his autograph.
Kucinich is still god :).
I am a Kerry/Kucinich supporter been like that since John won in Iowa. I hope he does talk to Dennis, and I hope Dennis's supporters consider John, he's no Kucinich I readily admit, but I think he has some good positions such as a strong environmental policy, civil rights, and an opposition to the barbaric death penalty will appeal. Thanks, you will never find me bashing Kucinich. Him and Kerry both rock.

[snoochie]

47. Sad that these basic facts about Kucinich keep having to be repeated

it's almost like people are being deliberately disingenuous about him... or were deblierately NOT paying attention every other time this has been explained. And it has been explained so many, many times.

sarcasm

Maybe it IS rocket science!

/sarcasm

[eridani]

36. Like fair trade?

The following from a conservative Christian. This is the issue that will split the 'cultural' conservative Rethug base right in half, and the Dems are ignoring it. Or they would be without Kucinich.

http://sierratimes.com/03/12/29/ar_carlworden.htm

The issue that I believe will put Dean right over the top will be his condemnation of NAFTA/GATT, free trade, and his pledge to end our participation in the World Trade Organization. If Dean wants to win by a comfortable margin, all he has to do is THAT. The massive number of red states that voted for Bush last election will turn to blue, and Dean will waltz into the White House like a halfback who strolls untouched into the end zone. End of game.

And the raving conservative Lou Dobbs--

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=3D110004778

Not too long ago, the people who watch Lou Dobbs's evening business program on CNN tuned into see someone who looked just like Lou Dobbs ranting about free trade and corporations that outsource jobs--"Exporting America," he calls it. This didn't compute. The Lou Dobbs everyone thought they knew was a font of economic reason.
Every night of the week now, no matter how big or small the rest of the day's news, the Lou nobody knew finds time to kvetch about outsourcing, "cheap overseas labor" and about a Nafta free-trade agreement that flung open the door to "illegal aliens" whom he's happy to routinely identify as "Mexicans." >

He's got a Web site that lists "more than 350 corporations we've confirmed are exporting America." He reads letters from viewers who wonder "why are we importing beef." The new Lou mocks Adam Smith and David Ricardo--"economists who lived 200 years ago." He invites in liberal Democrats, such as Senators Hillary Clinton and Max Baucus, to share ideas on a "plan" to keep America's jobs "at home."

Old admirers are aghast. It's as if whatever made Linda Blair's head spin around in "The Exorcist" had invaded the body of Lou Dobbs and left him with the brain of Dennis Kucinich. No public figure has moved so far left so fast since the transfiguration of Arianna Huffington. So who is this wild and crazy guy in the dark suit, white shirt and dark tie and where did he come from? Since Lou Dobbs is on television, I can't answer who he is, but I think I know where he's coming from.

59. here's an argument why he should be invited

Unity is not solely about uniting behind the candidate.
If this dinner wants to define unity in those terms, that is their right, but it would certainly be more magnanimous if they welcomed Kucinich instead of ostracizing him, if they thought of unity in larger terms.

In a personal relationship, when two people are estranged from each other (for example, a parent and a child), it is the responsibility and the duty of the individual (the parent) who has more power to extend the olive branch to the one who has less. I'm not saying that Kucinich is a child, but he is in that position in this particular dynamic. This is why Kucinich should be invited.

[Dhalgren]

73. The primaries aren't over!

Are all the remaoning primaries to be cancelled? Do the rest of us not get to vote? To hell with unity - if you disenfranchize millions of Democrats what good is unity?

[Hav]

43. How often do you want to repeat posting that??

[dogman]

89. Read my post!

I said Joe. I have no problem with DK.

[Dr Fate]

12. Yes, I will take DEM unity over a Bush victory, thank you very much.

What is wrong with progressives, moderates, and everyone in between uniting?

I like Dennis a lot and he will certainly be supporting Kerry and Democrats in 2004.

He can keep on preaching those values too-I hope he stumps for Kerry on the issues they agree on- which are many.

I want Dennis to be there-it's his call...

[snoochie]

45. Lieberman speaks AGAINST Kerry and gets invited?

Nice to see such consistency, eh?

Kucinich says we need to stay in it to say the things Kerry can't say, and gets the cold shoulder.

Lieberman goes on TV and says Kerry is wrong, and gets invited.

Yep, Democrats want us to go green.

Too bad we respect DENNIS more than this SOLD OUT WHORE PARTY.

:puke:

[revcarol]

15. Why don't they just call it what it is?: A FUNDRAISER for Kerry!!

$25,000 for two tickets!! And $$ up...

If they had titled it correctly, as a fundraiser for Kerry, there would be no question of inviting or not inviting Dennis.

This is NOT a UNITY dinner. It's a fundraiser!!

[Leilani]

39. A fundraiser?

I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!!!

I thought Kerry could challenge Bush based on good looks.

Who needs money in a campaign?

[zulchzulu]

18. Gee. What's a Kerry Unity Dinner?

Could it be a dinner where people have dropped out of the race and now will work/endorse for Kerry?

So why isn't Kucinich invited? Should Nader be there too? What about LaRouche?

Hmmm...

[Dookus]

19. LOL...

love the graphic!

[fujiyama]

23. In all honesty...

I would prefer his company to Lieberman's (considering the SOB doesn't even believe Clarke), but has Kucinich ever spoke against Nader's run? I know Sharpton and Dean have.

[eridani]

25. Kucinich worked for Gore, not Nader, in 2000 n/t

[Padraig18]

44. That's not the question fujiyama asked. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

29. He wasn't going to go anyway

[snoochie]

48. Thanks, Will

This takes some of the sting out of this insult.

I still think it's beyond insulting that Holy Joe, who Sunday seemed to be working AGAINST Kerry's campaign, is invited, but Kucinich is AGAIN treated like a pariah.

So glad I live in Texas where I won't have to do CRAP for kerry and the republicrats.

[Kathleen04]

30. I think he should be able to go..

I don't think he's being "divisive" by continuing to campaign. He's running to raise issues and those who vote for him are hoping to send an important message to the Democratic party and Senator Kerry.

He's being largely ignored by the media but his grassroots style, meeting people on the ground, campaign is bringing people into the party and after July, he'll be 100% on board..so I don't see any problem.

[corporatewhore]

32. they dont want him to bring up such unpleasentries such as soliders dying

in iraq because of occupation
workers losing their jobs to slaves in china because of "free" trade
and so on

[Dookus]

33. No...

I think the much simpler explanation is they don't want him to attend a Unity Dinner for Kerry because he's still running against him. Sort of fucks up the whole notion of "unity".

[DemBones DemBones]

40. Kerry and the Democratic Party continue to marginalize

Kucinich and those of us who support him at their peril. We support Kucinich because of his ideas and the party (and its nominee) should be looking closely at the ideas because they are important ideas. Kucinich is still campaigning because of the ideas.

It's true that Dennis Kucinich has not won many delegates. But I ask you: if slavery still existed and there was only one abolitionist candidate, would you support slavery "because the abolitionist didn't get many votes"? We need to push the party and the nominee to do some things they think are "radical" -- just as abolitionism was once "radical." It's time to do what's right. Not many people will object if we offer them health care, jobs, and freedom. As the Democrats, we should be doing this.

We need health care for all. We're the only industrialized country not to have it. What will Kerry do?

We need jobs for all. We must end outsourcing by ending US involvement in NAFTA and WTO. What will Kerry do?

We need freedom for all. We must repeal the PATRIOT Act. What will Kerry do?

I plan to vote for Kerry, or whoever the Democratic nominee is, but I could decide to stay home if I decide that Kerry and the Party bigshots have no respect for the ideas. Disrespecting Dennis suggests disrespect for the ideas.

I'm sure Dennis doesn't care about the dinner but excluding him is no way to build unity. Aren't Dean, Edwards, and Lieberman technically still in the race, didn't each of them suspend his campaign, rather than ending it? Dennis will support the nominee but he intends to keep campaigning for the ideas. I support him in that.

[drfemoe]

41. Good Post

Dennis should do whatever he wants to do.

The party mantra for 2004, "Unity", leaves me feeling a little creepy sometimes. I'm not sure I understand or agree with the rationale for using that term to "unite" the Party? It strikes me as an obvious facade. But that's just me. I'm all for it.

Thursday is the day Howard Dean (and 34 Congresspeople who endorsed him) will be endorsing Kerry. ref: blogforamerica.com

[DemBones DemBones]

95. Thank you. Dennis will support the nominee WHEN WE HAVE ONE.

And, yes, Kerry will probably be the nominee. But people voted for Kerry largely because they saw him as electable, not because of his ideas.

A large number of voters indicated that they preferred the ideas put forth by Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean.

[Dookus]

42. oooh.... ignore DK at our peril!

*shiver*

He represents a tiny tiny minority. Any candidate who tried to gain that group at the expense of the huge middle would be an idiot.

I like DK. Honestly, I do. But he's a fringe candidate, and as long as he's running AGAINST Kerry, he doesn't belong at a Unity Dinner.

[Iverson]

55. so basically ...

You have no response to the point about ideas, and you seem to think that a Democratic Party unity dinner is not actually a Democratic Party unity dinner but instead is a John Kerry unity dinner.

Anyone else need excluding while the moment is ripe?

[sangh0]

61. I have a response to the point about ideas

While DK's ideas have attracted your support, Kerry's ideas have attracted a great deal more support.

Anyone else need excluding while the moment is ripe?

Well, there's always Nader and the Repukes. Would you like them to be invited?

[eridani]

101. Voters who think that 'Jim Barry" is running for president

know exactly fuckall about Kerry's ideas.

[DemBones DemBones]

96. Well said! I don't think I need add to your comments

but I will say again there is no nominee yet.

If someone were campaigning on his own behalf after the convention nominated someone else, I could see excluding him from a "unity" dinner.

But that's not what's happening here. And it's interesting that someone thought it was important for John Kerry, the man who probably will be the nominee, to enlist the support of Howard Dean, but apparently is unconcerned about the support of Dennis Kucinich, unconcerned about snubbing him by not inviting him to a unity dinner even though he's always said he will support the nominee.

To me, that says that either Kerry or the party don't give a shit about my vote, or the votes of other Kucinich supporters.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me they should be trying to get everyone's vote, not exclude anyone. Especially not someone like me who has been voting Democratic since 1968 and who always planned to vote for the nominee but now is wondering why Dennis is being excluded from this dinner and if the party deserves my vote this year.

[sangh0]

108. Do you know how foolish it sounds to depict DK as "snubbed"

when DK himself said it wouldn't appropriate for him to attend? How come a man as good as DK attracts supporters who don't seem to know what's going on with their own preferred candidate?

[maxanne]

56. excluding a Democrat

sort of fucks up the notion of unity.

[sangh0]

66. No, it doesn't

Wow, making assertions without providing any support it is really easy!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. Howard Dean opposed the war, but he is invited

[Padraig18]

50. Yes, the point being that Gov. Dean is no longer *actively* campaigning.

I'm sure that if DK had suspended his campaign, as did Gov. Dean, Sen. Edwards and sen. Lieberman, he would also have been invited. Since he is still in active opposition to Sen. kerry, it would be illogical to invite him to a 'unity' dinner, now wouldn't it?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Also the fact that Dean has ENDORSED Kerry

[corporatewhore]

76. hes not against the occupation though or nafta

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. He's a Democrat who will support Kerry....

in his own time. He should have been invited. He IS still out there bashing the cabal, isn't he? He should have been invited and I'm sure this was meant to send him a message. :eyes:

[Padraig18]

53. By definition, a 'unity dinner' does not include an opponent.

As long as the Congressman continues to actively campaign for the nomination, rather than suspend his campaign and endorse Sen. Kerry, he logically should not be invited to a unity dinner.

[Iverson]

54. that begs the question

Was that a Democratic Party unity dinner or a John Kerry unity dinner?

Priorities ...

[maxanne]

57. seems quite obvious

Iverson. If they were truly interested in party unity, they wouldn't be excluding members of the party.

[KittyWampus]

58. Neither, T'was A Democratic Unity Party Dinner For The Democratic NOMINEE

around whom the party is now coalescing.

John Kerry is the person who occupies that position... but it could have been any of the contenders if THEY had won the position of NOMINEE.

Is it really that hard to make such distinctions?

[DemBones DemBones]

97. We don't HAVE a nominee, only a candidate who

will probably be the nominee. Dennis has said he will support the nominee,

[sangh0]

62. It was both, Iverson

It's hard to have unity when one person is refusing to acknowledge the choice Democratic primary voters made. If DK wants to continue pushing HIS message and HIS ideas, he is free to do so but he shouldn't confuse that with acting in unity with the rest of the party, who chose to push Kerry's ideas

[mobuto]

79. Good!

And when Kucinich does get around to supporting Kerry, he'll get invited to future such events. Its really quite simple.

[goodhue]

51. but Kucinich DOES preach party unity . . .

I wonder if said DNC official has ever seen Kucinich preach. DK always has said and continues to say that he will support the democrat nominee. He is a loyal democrat trying to keep progressives in the party. His non-invitation seems pretty petty and short-sighted. But its what I would have expected.

[sangh0]

64. Then he needs to practice what he preaches

"Unity" means acting in concert, not just paying lip service to the idea. By pushing his own candidacy and ideas, DK is not acting in unison with the rest of the party.

[Dhalgren]

75. Fuck the party.

[sangh0]

78. Typical

DK supports the party but "Fuck the Party"

Just the sort of logic we expect from the fringe

[Dhalgren]

83. I guess I am "fringe". I am way too left for the

Democratic Party. I used to be a Democrat, though, and the party just kept oozing more and more to the right until it oozed right out from under me. So, yeah, I can say (and with not a little authority) "Fuck the Party". When the party has abandoned much that made it what it was, when the party blithely followed the Republicans to the right, when the party (as represented by its elected leaders) supported the fascism of George "Little Bennito" Bush, yeah I can say "Fuck the Party". And I know that on certain issues the Party has stood up to the Bush junta, but that just points out more clearly how it has caved-in on so many others. It really doesn't change the fact that someone is a Quisling, just because they disagree with the conquerers on some specific issue - he/she is a Quisling, still. So, just remember when you hear the faint cries of disgust from the far fringes that we didn't move to the fringe, we were left at what became the fringe.

[MuseRider]

80. Good grief!

Did anyone listen to Kucinich on Democracy Now yesterday? He is not upset by this but we are killing each other over this. Here is one of his responses about not being invited to the dinner.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: I'm all for unity, but unity around principles of peace. Unity around principles of health care for all. Unity around fair trade. Let us have unity. Of course, we should have unity. Principles of unity are principles of coherence. We need human unity and need to stand for that. So I'm all for unity. I'm sorry I won't be able to make that party, but you have to realize, I’m still an active candidate. There were ten candidates, now there's two actively campaigning. So it's not appropriate for me to be there at a rally for John Kerry I wish him well and I will do everything that I can to make sure that the Democrats develop a firmly articulated view about peace and socioeconomic justice, fair trade and health care for all.

We all need to quit bashing each other over the things that he takes in stride and with grace. This was an excellent interview and explains very well all the issues that keep coming up between Kerry folks and Kucinich folks.

[Desertrose]

81. Great post, MuseRider...Dennis says it best...

I wish I could be as...graceful about it as Dennis is. He really is quite the man and that is why so many people love and support him. Talk about integrity...and honesty.

Dennis rocks- always...no matter what he is doing he has a such class about him.


..."unity around principles of peace. Unity around principles of health care for all. Unity around fair trade. Let us have unity........ Principles of unity are principles of coherence. We need human unity and need to stand for that."

I wish everyone could truly "hear" what this man says....
:hug:MR


Peace & Unity
DR

[MuseRider]

82. He has put my mind

and heart at ease for this election. I can continue in the party as long as people like him are there working for us. I was very worried about what I was going to do. This interview was so good. I can continue to work for him and his ideas, I may not always be happy about what is going on but it is truely a process and takes time, work and energy. I am tired of the fighting about this so I rarely even look at these threads anymore but since hearing the interview I thought I should see what was going on in here. Ugly, ugly stuff. :hug: to you. Peace and unity always

[blm]

86. I agree. I don't know what the big deal is.

Kucinich isn't ready to stop campaigning for his platform issues.

He had no intention of going to the dinner, not because he's against Kerry - he likes Kerry just fine - but because he's still actively pursuing delegates to effect the eventual platform.

Leave the man be. He's as loyal a Democrat as you'll ever meet. Kucinich is not about being disruptive, he's about being EFFECTIVE for the issues that matter to him and his constituency.

[MuseRider]

92. It is just too easy

to react. I admit, I reacted at first but then I heard him on Democracy Now and understood. Let the bashers bash, they have some interesting reasons for doing it I am sure, but I will no longer play with them.

The inflection of his voice during the interview gave me an insight into what he is doing and why he is still doing it now. He is most certainly not being disruptive and he is not about being divisive.

Thanks blm, your insights are always appreciated by me.

[bluestateguy]

84. I say invite him

and put a little note on the invitation asking him to end his campaign. Throw a bone or two to him in the platform and lets go about the business of evicting the Great Satan from the White House.

[goodhue]

85. message from campaign

This came over e-mail list-serve . . .

This Thursday, the Democratic National Committee is holding a
"Unity Dinner.” All those attending have chosen to declare their
support for John Kerry. Because Congressman Kucinich is honoring
his commitment to his supporters and to his vision of a
progressive future within the Democratic Party by advocating
unity about peace, social justice and equal rights, he has
decided it would be premature for him to attend this dinner
honoring John Kerry’s candidacy.

Claudia Slate
Virtual Outreach Coordinator
Kucinich for President
www.kucinich.us

[Padraig18]

87. Cool. Dennis 'gets it'.

:)

[MuseRider]

88. Absolutely he does

too bad "we" do not. :hi:

[Padraig18]

90. heh!

BTW, thanks for the lovely e-mail. Sorry I've not had time to write back yet. :hi::hug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

91. Thanks

If he REALLY was not invited though that would be shitty.

[w4rma]

94. Sounds like he decided not to attend because he's not ready to unite. (nt)

[Uzybone]

93. Why should he be invited

and listening to him today he sure wasn't someone who seemed to be peeved at it. In fact I'm sure he wouldn't have gone. Its a unity party for the nominee...John Kerry. Kooch is STILL running against Kerry. How in the hell can he be at a unity party when he is still running?

[DemBones DemBones]

98. Why a Kerry unity party before the convention?

Didn't Dean and Lieberman and Edwards merely suspend campaigning? Are all of them now giving their delegates to Kerry?

This pre-emptive nomination business is new to old Dems like me. I think it'll be Kerry and was planning on voting for him but this seems to me to be disrespect toward Dennis, coming either from Kerry or the party. Both should know better.

Dennis is being very gracious about it. I'm not. I'm the one whose vote you want, so maybe someone should be trying to keep Kucinich voters in the party for November.

[flaminbats]

99. This unity meeting provides untapped potential..

it would give Kucinich a constructive opportunity to endorse Kerry before the convention, while allowing Kerry to agree in having Kucinich's more popular ideas be voted on as part of the national platform.

Why waste an opportunity which would reap such benefits to both primary candidates and their supporters? :shrug:

[govegan]

100. How petty of them!

Of course it would be way too much to ask for unity for liberty, unity for justice, unity for equality.

Dennis is not a pork fan anyway.

As democracy slowly fades into the waste heap of history, that these folks want to quibble over the semantics of how to run a presidential campaign is outrageous.

Don't senators and congress people have to run as well?

Perhaps another reason:

"We now know the truth. We know that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. We know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, with al Qaeda's role in 9/11, or with the anthrax attack upon this country. We know that Iraq had neither the intention nor the capability of attacking the United States and that Iraq never tried to acquire uranium from Niger.

"We know the attack on Iraq represented a colossal blunder by this Administration which has led to the loss of more than 570 of the young men and women who have served this country, and to the loss of the lives of countless innocent Iraqi civilians. And we know that this senseless and illegal occupation of a country that did not attack us or threaten us must end." from DK's website.

The fruits of empire are very tempting to the DNC. Are they willing to give some of them up? If they don't can democracy survive in the US?

As Kucinich continues to campaign he is telling the media and their owners that they cannot shut up and shut out whoever they want, whenever they want.

On edit: I am glad DK can speak so eloquently about these things. Just another reason to continue supporting him. But no, it doesn't ease my concern about the destruction of democracy.

[genius]

102. Then the dinner is not worth attending. I guess Kerry doesn't need votes

Otherwise he would demand that Kucinich be invited.

[Alenne]

103. Why would he come to a dinner

honoring Kerry's candidacy when he is still a candidate?

[genius]

104. It's about curtesy and whether Kerry wants our suppport. This says "NO"

I guess Kerry can win without us. Fine.

[Alenne]

105. Actually it has nothing to do with the voters

It is a dinner given by the Democratic Party to rally behind Kerry's presidential run. Dennis Kucinich is still campaigning and doesn't want to celebrate Kerry. He doesn't even want to go.

[genius]

106. It's an insult to the campaign. Kucinich will back the nominee.

Those of us who support Dennis are watching and we want to see a Kerry who wants to reach out to our hero.

Kerry is currently in trouble with the left because of his statements about Chavez, a hero to the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. He needs to show that he wants our support and is interested in our interests.

[Alenne]

107. He probably will do that

but right now Dennis has a campaign to run and doesn't want to be involved in a dinner that celebrates Kerry's presidential run.

[sangh0]

109. DK doesn't think it's an insult

.

[redqueen]

110. Whatever

A DNC official says he wasn't invited. Kucinich's campaign says he felt it wouldn't be appropriate for him to attend.

Who's lying? Who cares? Kucinich is a great man and takes it in stride and with grace.

The party has shown us very well what it thinks of progressives. This is not news. So please, don't act all shocked and surprised and baffled when people who are tired of being screwed sideways by corporoate whore suck up sellouts take this slight with much less grace than DK.

[WilliamPitt]

111. For what it's worth

I was given to understand that Dennis was not going to this thing some weeks ago. I posted about it at the time. So, the DNC is late to the party on this dis-invitation. They disinvited a guy who wasn't going anyway.

[redqueen]

112. Maybe a bad move, you think?

Why not just let sleeping dogs lie? Why did that party official have to take the extra step of reporting that he was not invited?

As I said, it doesn't matter to me. I just think it's amusing to see so many pretending that this is surprising.

Can't wait to find out how the next 7 months go. That DNC flash ad was great, eh?