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Obama claims to be like Lincoln and JFK, but both were seasoned politicians, not novices like Obama

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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:49 AM
Original message
Obama claims to be like Lincoln and JFK, but both were seasoned politicians, not novices like Obama
Being President of the United States is the most difficult job in the world. Qualifications should be utmost in everyone's mind. Why someone would decide to run with as little experience as Obama is troubling. Doesn't he understand the magnitude of the job? Not to say he wouldn't be the most extraordinary President ever, but we the People would need to have seen him stick it out through at least one Senate term. This is not a popularity contest, and hope is NOT enough. The president who takes over now is assuming the role in the most difficult of times. Obama said he'd hire the expertise, but we have just come out of having an unqualified (but with more direct governing experience than Obama) person in the world's most difficult job, who was going to outsource his duties. Can Obama master the job of being a senator?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-wilentz26jan26,0,5561702.story




"Few will disagree that it is very rare for a candidate with as little experience in politics and government as Obama to capture the imagination of so many influential Americans. One way for a candidate like this to minimize his lack of experience is to pluck from the past the names of great presidents who also, supposedly, lacked experience. Early in the campaign, Obama's backers likened him to the supposed neophyte John F. Kennedy. More recently, some have pointed out (as did New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, among others) that Abraham Lincoln served only one "undistinguished" term in the House before he was elected president in 1860.

These comparisons distort the past beyond recognition. By the time he ran for president, JFK had served three terms in the House and twice won election to the Senate, where he was an active member of the Foreign Relations Committee. In total, he had held elective office in Washington for 14 years. Before that, he was, of course, a decorated veteran of World War II, having fought with valor in the South Pacific. Kennedy, the son of a U.S. ambassador to Britain, had closely studied foreign affairs, which led to his first book, "Why England Slept," as well as to a postwar stint in journalism.

This record is not comparable to Obama's eight years in the Illinois Legislature, his work as a community organizer and his single election to the Senate in 2004 -- an election he won against a late entrant, right-wing Republican Alan Keyes, in a state where the GOP was in severe disarray.

The Lincoln comparison is equally tortured. Yes, Lincoln spent only two years in the House after winning election in 1846. Yet his deep involvement in state and national politics began in 1832, the same year he was elected a captain in the Illinois militia -- and 28 years before he ran for president. He then served as leader of the Illinois Whig Party and served his far-from-undistinguished term in Congress courageously leading opposition to the Mexican War.

After returning home, he became one of the leading railroad lawyers in the country, emerged as an outspoken antislavery leader of Illinois' Republican Party -- and then, in 1858, ran unsuccessfully for the Senate and engaged with Stephen A. Douglas in the nation's most important debates over slavery before the Civil War. It behooves the champions of any candidate to think carefully when citing similarities to Lincoln's record. In this case, the comparison is absurd. "

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. NOT Obama claims.
Supporter claims.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:51 AM
Original message
Yes, of course... but voters seem to want someone who entertains them.
Not someone of substance.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. I guess substance is in the eye of the beholder.....
the voters in the last 10 contests have beheld Sen. Clinton, and soundly rejected her. You never miss an opportunity to take a swipe at Sen. Obama, but if your intent is to elevate your candidate while diminishing him, take a really good look at the last few exit polls.

Trouble is, not enough people agree with you, or even care what you think, hence the 10th straight loss in a row for Sen Clinton. Every insult, every attack, every negative ad, and every distortion only seems to help him. So thanks for that.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
20. Someone of substance...
who runs a really half-assed campaign? If Hillary's advisers are an indication of who she'll have around her, I'll take Obama's competent advisers and his better judgment and temperament any day.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. Isnt the whole election process supposed to be about what the...
voters want? No matter what the voters reasons, from what I understand, the voters are what count? Maybe I am wrong and we should just go with whoever the media and the elite want us to take...who knows.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Representing the south side of Chicago in the State Senate...
...is good preparation to be president, too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. This is another example of the Obama machine trying to shut down dissent
The OP is putting the truth out and the Obamabots can't handle it so they do their usual...
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. By saying that, you're trying to shut down HIS dissent.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Just like Obama..
Lincoln was in the Illinois legislature.

I see no reason for him to wait until he is old and dried up to run for Pres.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. Did Obama found the Democratic Party?
Have 28 years of experience in politics?

"Just like Obama"... Lincoln is not even in the same category as Mr. I Gave One Speech.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. I see your point, but, could he possibly do any worse than bush?
No matter who gets elected would be an improvement.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Lincoln experience comparison is very accurate.
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 12:58 AM by Radical Activist
First, to claim Lincoln being elected captain of his little militia unit as the beginning of his political career is disingenuous. It wasn't a political office or campaign. The author is either misinformed or stretching the truth to make his point.

Most of Lincoln's political experience before becoming President was in the Illinois State Legislature, just like Obama. If Obama is elected he will have spent MORE years in federal office than Lincoln's one term in Congress.

There are other similarities between Lincoln and Obama besides the fact that both opposed a popular war when it was politically difficult to do so.

Both faced a Senator from New York who was a far more nationally known figure presumed to be the inevitable nominee.

Also, both became famous for their public speeches before running for President. Lincoln became nationally known for distributing his debates with Douglass in 1858, and Obama for his '04 convention speech. Both became famous while running for US Senate, although Obama won his race while Lincoln lost. In both cases, words mattered.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Thank You
I was going to say that Lincoln had very little experience also. You said it much better.

Why do people make up ridiculous claims like this that can be disproven with a simple Internet search?

And thanks to the posters that pointed out the "mistake" in the OP claiming that Obama ever made such claims.

If your going to attack, at least have some substance behind it. You are not going to fool people as well informed as those on DU are.
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. You are soooo right
William Seward was inevitable TOO!
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
33. I seem to recall Lincoln getting demoted in the militia
Even so, Lincoln was not a seasoned veteran of national politics - quite the contrary.

He served 2 years in the Congress. He was a state senator like Obama. He was noted for his ability to debate and speak and inspire people - like Obama. Douglas had far more experience than Lincoln and that was one of the issues he (Douglas) ran on - experience.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. Talk about blowing your load...
You managed to use up all three of your GD:Primaries posts in less than an hour. What will you do for the next 23 while waiting for your chance to post more useless crap?
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ObamaFan Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah, imagine that....
Obama has no experience..Obama hasn't been around long enough...it's the toughest job in the world..and only Hillary can do it...

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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. Wrong...
Try going over your 8th grade history lessons.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. You lost me at...
"Before that, he was, of course, a decorated veteran of World War II, having fought with valor in the South Pacific. Kennedy, the son of a U.S. ambassador to Britain,"

If soldiering and political legacies are valid qualifications for executive office then I'll take the "unqualified" candidate please.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Based on Candice's criteria I guess she's voting for McCain.
Decorated veteran with influential family.......
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. or
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 02:07 AM by johnnydrama
writing in Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, or Richardson.

Much much more experience than Hillary.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I don't think any of the Dems you named were decorated war veterans so It'd have to be McCain.
Scary the people who post here nowadays, huh?
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Again, Obama has significantly more legislative experience than Hillary. n/t
n/t
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. In the minor leagues, yes. n/t
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yup. Only Obamanation thinks the minors matter
Look at our history. Obama would be the least accomplished president ever if he wins. He is unlikely to win because gambling with him, especially with the stakes so high, would require a gut check on the part of all but the most rabid Obama supporters on election day. Are we to "hope" the gut check works out for us?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Psst: Most Hillary supporters have realized that the word "ObamaNation" is freeper slime.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. Who told you Obama isn't an accomplished person?
How do you even say that? He was elected president of the Harvard Law Review.

Who told you he is not an accomplished person?

Seriously! Where did you hear that?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. Accomplished in presidential terms
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 11:45 AM by jackson_dem
Law Review isn't an achievement but doesn't prepare you to be president.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. He's probably better prepared than anybody in a long time.
He's lectured on constitutional law. He's blowing the Clinton machine away with his managment and organizational skills.

Are you really trying to make this argument? Really? I ask again, who told you this stuff? Where did you get this notion?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Lemme know when you've got a link to Obama comparing himself to those men.
The first person to compare Obama to JFK around me was a Republican.
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Matteon Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
18. Several Problems with that post and article.
First, the author of the article brushes aside Obama's 8 years in the state legislature and then pumps up how Lincoln was a railway lawyer. That's backwards.

Second, the article mentions a failed Senate campaign as a reason why Lincoln is experienced but dismisses Obama's successful Senate campaign as unimportant because he didn't face a strong enough challenger.

Third, the title of the thread claims that Obama compares himself to Lincoln and JFK. That's false. Other people may have done so, which is what the article refers to, but not Obama.
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Aren't Lincoln and Obama's experience nearly identical?
you might want to check that out...
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. Actually Obama has never claimed to be like Lincoln or JFK
but don't let the truth get in the way of your swiftboating. Obama certainly has more experience and more experience then Hillary. Hillary's 'experience' is why she is being rejected.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. Huh? So, we're counting Lincoln's work in the community and in local politics?
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 09:43 AM by Occam Bandage
So, then, how is the comparison unjustified? And who, exactly, has made the comparison?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. Err... Obama has more experience than either did
Seriously, I'm glad Obama is going to fund summer math tutoring programs, because some of his detractors can't seem to manage basic arithmetic.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. Barack clearly has a super fast learning curve to voercome the Clinton campaign. His book 'Audacity
of hope" details his great knowledge of the issues and his solutions. Barack mostly assumes people have done the resaerch on him, he grants folks with the intellegence to know where he stands. He knows that talking straight policy is no motivator to vote and is running his campaign to perfection.
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Obamaniac Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. Um...
JFK had 14 years of elected experience with no legislative accomplishments to his credit. Lincoln served only one term in Congress and was defeated twice when he ran for the Senate.

So what are you talking about?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. "This is not a popularity contest." Actually, that's not true.
In many ways, the President is the nation's self image. I can't tell you how many times I've seen comments at DU and other places that Bush is an "embarrassment." He is a shame to the nation--and the writer or speaker feels it personally. And it's not just because of what he's done--it's because of what he IS--a stupid, inarticulate, "all hat, no cattle," privileged bully. That image makes people cringe. They don't want to be identified with it. It makes them queasy. Why? Because, in some sense, they identify with the President as the "sum of the nation"--our most visible expression in the world, the person who sets the standard of behavior, the person who represents our collective identity.

So it's very important WHO this person is--and, in this world of electronic media--WHAT he projects--to us, and to others. Is he is open-hearted and open-minded, a book-reader, intelligent, witty, charismatic and visionary? If so, we feel better about ourselves--we feel that we can doing anything. Put men on the moon and bring them safely back to earth? No problem! His qualities in some ways reflect on us, as individuals. (I'm using "him" and "his" only because all presidents have been male--and I'm speaking of what has been true, historically.) Is he fearless? Does he say, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself?" If so, we feel less fearful about taking on both Hitler's Germany and the Imperial Japan at the same time. The President sets the tone. His popularity is especially important in a crisis, but it is always important.

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies--and Rove & Co.--have tried to force this incredibly stupid, flawed person--Bush--upon us as OUR self-image. They've created false events, such as Mr. Codpiece of "Mission Accomplished," and "Bush, the rancher," clearing brush, to shape this jerk into some semblance of a popular hero. And then they've stolen elections--so they can commit mind-boggling theft of our treasury, the hijacking of our military for a corporate resource war, the shredding of our Constitution as a protection for the People against Corporate Power, and other crimes, with idiot Bush as their "front man"--a criminal enterprise that has made it SEEM as if this horror has the approval of most Americans. "Bush, the war-president," and "Bush, the cowboy," have been very much a part of this horrendous manipulation BECAUSE the president's popularity is so important.

Presidential popularity is more important than with any other office. News organizations and others are constantly "taking the temperature" of the country by measuring the president's approval rating--which is as much a popularity measure (a matter of the image being projected), as it is a measure of the president's policy. Of course, if the policies are particularly bad--or good--that has more influence on "approval," but it's aways a mix of perceptions of the personality of the president and policy.

And this is regardless of whether or not it is a good thing, in a democracy, for the citizens to be looking to the president for their self-image. It probably isn't a good thing, in many ways--it's way too monarchical, and it also leads to phony image-making, at the presidential level and all levels of government and politics. But it is a reality. And it's positive aspect is that a "popularity contest" is a component of leadership. It is the duty of leaders, in a democracy, to INSPIRE people, to motivate them, to set a good example, and to get them to work toward good goals. We haven't had this--inspiring leadership--in a long, long time. And I'm sure that's why people are flocking to Obama--he's young, he's essentially uncontaminated by the cauldron of corruption that our government has become, and he's in tune with the people, who are very much in need of inspiring leadership, to get out of the morass that the Bushites and collusive Democrats have put us in. Congress--22% approval rating! Bush--19% approval rating! What does THAT tell ya? It's about the war, yes, but it is about so much else. It is about LACK OF INSPIRING LEADERSHIP.

I was young Kennedyite in 1960. I was 16 at the time, and it was my first experience of politics. And I remember the 1960 Democratic convention. JFK's chief rival for the nomination was Adlai Stevenson, who was a far, far better leftist than Kennedy--on matters of policy. Really, there was almost nothing to recommend JFK to anyone who really understood the "Cold War" and social issues like the importance of the labor movement. Stevenson was the best candidate--and also older, wiser and much more experienced than Kennedy. I remember the famous photo of Adlai Stevenson, relaxing outdoors, with his foot toward the camera, showing a HOLE IN HIS SHOE! It was...I don't know...indication that he was more on the side of the working class and the poor than glittering JFK, with his father's millions and his impeccable suits. But Stevenson's genuine credentials as a leftist, as a friend of Eleanor Roosevelt, as an advocate of world peace, and all the rest, were not what I, nor my generation, needed at the time. We needed INSPIRATION. Stevenson was "old guard" in our view. We needed youth. We need CONFIDENCE that WE could create the future.

Coming our way, soon, was a revolution in social justice like nothing we have ever seen in this country, before or since. The civil rights movement. The women's rights movement. The gay rights movement. The indigenous rights movement. The anti-war movement--the revolt of an entire generation against unjust war. The black power movement. The environmental movement. The liberalization in the Catholic Church. All previous social barriers, and blockades of true democracy, came tumbling down all at once. And if that wasn't enough, we broke the bounds of earth itself and put men on the moon. The JFK presidency was the BEGINNING of all this. It was HIS creative instinct--his ability to change--that answered the need of the era. Popularity. It's not just glitter. It's not just high rhetoric. It's the perhaps unconscious--or half-conscious--perception by the people of the intangible qualities in a leader--especially of a president--that answer the age, that provide what "WE, THE PEOPLE" need to change society for the better.

Adlai Stevenson was the better candidate. JFK was the inspiring one. And, in 1960, it wasn't what he said. It was who he really WAS, beneath the skin of privilege, and aside from his "Cold Warrior" rhetoric. A president who--like his youthful followers--was able to learn and grow, and gain perspective on the world, and try to change it. By the end of his shortened term as president, he had stopped two wars with communist countries (Cuba, the Soviet Union), and was working on stopping a third--Vietnam. (The latter is why they killed him, I'm sure of it.) He had initiated civil rights legislation and the first nuclear disarmament treaty. He had begun the conversion of the military budget to peaceful uses (the space program). And much more. He fulfilled that intangible quality of youth, hope and creative intelligence--the ability to change--in many concrete ways.

And let me tell you--having been there--that JFK's youth and "inexperience" was a MAJOR ISSUE, not only in his campaign for the nomination, but also in his campaign against Richard Nixon (who had been Eisenhower's VP). As a Kennedy volunteer, I was constantly dealing with this issue--through the nomination process and the election. And it was not only meaningless to me, it was INSULTING. *I* was young! I identified with Kennedy's youth. How dare anyone say that the young could not lead?

If Clinton, or McCain, think that they are going to get traction with the "young and inexperienced" issue, they are very mistaken. The kind of youthful political energy that Obama is inspiring will only intensify with every insulting mention of his being "too young" or "too inexperienced." And, in any case, what has age and experience done to help our country lately? NOTHING! The powers-that-be--the "old and experienced"-- have come close to destroying our country.

I see many flaws in Obama's policy--not the least of which is his vagueness on policy. Personally, I'm not sure who he is--who or what he is beholden to--and it's extremely difficult to tell these days, who a candidate is, given the phenomenally delusionary quality of the rightwing corporate news media. But I think one thing is clear: who his SUPPORTERS are! They are representative of the SEVENTY PERCENT of the American people who oppose the Iraq War and want it ended, and who have had no voice in the affairs of the nation. And they are representative of an IGNITED young peoples' movement to change the country--on war policy, social justice and other issues.

In this sense, Obama is very like JFK. Though he opposed the war--and appears to have better foreign policy advisers than Clinton--he voted to keep funding it. His policies are ambivalent and hard to read. But his SUPPORTERS know what THEY want--and that's not bad. It means that, if he becomes president, they will at least have a voice in Washington DC, or HOPE of a voice. They will feel encouraged and inspired. It takes more than a president to reform a country. It takes the whole country. Citizen involvement is essential. And even if Obama disappoints his followers, this new citizen activism is a great, great plus.

Very unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, she is associated with the past--with all the compromises the Democrats have made (why Congress has a 22% approval rating--good god!), and with the disastrous policies of the last eight years, which she has never sufficiently opposed. Nobody knows what Obama would have done, had he been in office longer as a Senator. And that is in his favor. He is largely an unknown. He is a new face. He represents the aspirations of the young and the previously excluded--the majority of Americans, not just blacks and other minorities.

What young, energetic presidents do--or a president like FDR, facing an unusual crisis (the Great Depression)--is create a "brain trust." That's what Obama will do. A president doesn't have to WRITE policy. He merely has to guide it. His job is to get the nation behind what the "brain trust" comes up with. To inspire. To lead. And that duty is as much about popularity (personal projection) as it is about substance. Ask Adlai Stevenson.

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Many good points here.
The presidency is a unique position. No one can say what the proper experience is to be able to do the job. Some of the worst presidents had lots of experience.

In Obama's life, he hasn't just been sitting around. Whatever his experience is, who's to say it isn't the right kind to be president?

Disclaimer: I haven't expressed any presidential preference since Edwards dropped out, except to say that none are progressive enough for my taste.

--IMM
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weezie1317 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
34. LOL - Joe S. said Obama was like Lincoln in experience just this morning...
and that's coming from a Republican.
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
36. "Novice"? I see you picked up McStain's talking points right away. n/t
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. BS headline
Obama has made no such claims. Any you're trying to get me to read on?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. Obama has more years in elective office than HRC
He also has passed some substantive legislation in both places:
In Illinois, he was a key player on getting their kids' insurance passed and he passed an excellent piece of legislation that insures that all police interrogations are taped. (This is an important civil rights bill that should be law everywhere)

In the US Senate, he got some very tough teeth in the ethics reform bill and just yesterday, Bush signed his legislation with Lugar on non proliferation. This is a genuine National Security credential. What does HRC have that is comparable?
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:44 AM
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40. Obama has more experience than Lincoln. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bullshit propoganda.
What a bunch of crumbs suckers.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 03:56 PM
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46. JFK
had a lot more life experience than Obama has ever had as well---as you mentioned, the war and his PT-109 experience, and his family tragedies with a brother killed in the war and a sister born mentally retarded.. I like the idea of having a President who has been through tough times. Hillary has been tested in her years as First Lady. Obama has had a relatively cushy life compared to either one of these people and I don't quite trust that he can be counted on to be a good president.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:59 PM
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47. Lincoln was a seasoned politician? What a fucking joke....
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. He was an upstart, an outsider.
Being a railroad lawyer (actually his business with the railroads could better be described as being a tax lawyer--he didn't practice the hardball property law that he railroads hired their staff counsels for) is not the same as political experience.

Being elected as a militia officer in the Blackhawk War was a nice honor for a young man on the make--but it hardly compares to being elected editor of the Harvard Review.

Lincoln's work as a postmaster is certainly comparable to being a community organizer--that was the sort of small community networking position that was available in the 1830s. The Lincoln-Obama comparison is strong, if still somewhat trivial.

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