Clinton deserved better than Wolfson and Penn. And Bill.

[chieftain]

I still like and admire Hillary but she has been ill-served by her advisers and her own instincts. The plagiarism charge reeked of desperation. The poaching trial balloon exposed a campaign in serious disarray. The desire to break the rules on Michigan and Florida revealed a group that felt their return to power was more important than the Party's success.
Those of us who watched the botching of the Clinton health care initiative have long questioned Hillary's political acumen. This campaign makes it crystal clear that for all her admirable qualities, all of her passionate desire to help the middle and working classes and all of her marvelous intelligence, HRC is not capable of harnessing those estimable assets and translating them into positive political progress.
The sooner that she accepts the reality that Obama is going to be our nominee, the sooner the Democratic Party can begin the serious heavy lifting required to remove this criminal regime from the WH. She will be this generation's Ted Kennedy. She will be the next great Democratic leader in the Senate.

[Patsy Stone]

1. Wolfson and Penn

are bottom-dwellers. They should be ashamed at how poorly they represent her. I used to think Bob Shrum was the worst, but not anymore.

[chieftain]

9. The first time I saw Wolfson, I figured her campaign was

doomed. To choose someone as odious as Wolfson to front the campaign was a blunder of epic proportions. And Penn, what a fraud.

[Patsy Stone]

17. Unbelievable

Through all of the this, the only thing which continually surprises me is how bad they are at what they do. It's like amateur hour.

Let's not even discuss Wolfson's NH sweater, and Penn's flop sweat.

[chieftain]

22. I love that MSNBC keeps putting up the picture of the little thug

in his ski sweater.

[Patsy Stone]

27. It's possible

the sweater did them in. :tinfoilhat:

[anigbrowl]

49. Separated at Birth?

Howard Wolfson


General Zod

[anigbrowl]

50. Mark Penn's secret identity

Mark Penn


John Goodman (in Barton Fink)

[Divernan]

30. Water seeks its own level - & they were her choices.

Speaks volumes about the kind of people she'd have put on her Cabinet and heading fed agencies and named to fed courts.

[dchill]

31. Exactly.

They all deserve each other.

[sendero]

12. But doesn't the fact that she..

... chose them to run her campaign reflect poorly on her judgement?

The only sympathy I have for her is that I think her hubby screwed her again in shooting off his mouth. In fact, it was about that time that momentum shifted from her to Obama.

It's never really possible to pinpoint the factors that cause a political shift, but certainly Bill mouthing off was a factor.

Now the really interesting question is, "was it accidental"? :)

[lisa58]

16. I thought the same thing...

...until the stories of how badly her campaign was run came out.

Bill didn't help, but he was really only trying to save it from horrible mis-management.

Bill disappointed me, and probably alot of other people who defended him - but I really think he was just trying to save a sinking ship.

[chieftain]

20. If she had better political instincts, she would have had a very

different campaign.
I assume someone will write a psychological treatise trying to decide whether Bill's overzealousness actions were due to the lack of restraint shown by little league fathers who live vicariously through their kin folk or was this the hostile behavior of someone who was compelled subconsciously to sabotage his wife's ambitions.
The good news is that this will be a footnote during a successful Obama administration as opposed to involving the entire nation (world ?)in the continuing soap opera that is the Clinton marriage.

[Patsy Stone]

23. I don't know who chose them

If she did, it absolutely reflects poorly on her judgment. If she didn't, that's even more disturbing and also reflects poorly on her. I think it might also have a whiff of McAuliffe to it. I'm sure they both had great ideas for the "inevitable" candidate, but it appears they have horrible ones for the mortal candidate.

I didn't vote for her, but I never expected all of this. I was sure she had a Plan B. Apparently, I was so wrong. Plan B turned out to be throwing everything at the wall to see what stuck.

Bill seemed to stick his foot in his mouth at the most inopportune times. I love Bill, but getting his mug all over the TV just served as a reminder to those who never liked him that he'd still be around. I think he should have stayed behind her during speeches and smiled.

[Binka]

44. Bill is a narcissist and she is his supply/ enabler

Manipulative narcissist ALWAYS destroy everyone around them. It is the nature of the disorder. They are charming no doubt, but they are fuck dog the home/work/family/life wreckers as well.

Hillary should have booted Bill's ass to the curb before she started her run. IMHO Bill coached her into this "dream team." Things would be looking much brighter for her if she had smart, tough, gutty women in those positions. Penn in particular was just a gross odious miscalculation. I so wanted to like her, but alas, I just couldn't after what she capitulated to.

They fucked her. On purpose? Who knows. Bill is awful tight with Poppy these days.

[Patsy Stone]

46. I don't think on purpose

But the fucking still remains.

I never thought of it in those terms before, but it could certainly be that Bill made this about Bill. And I completely agree: she should have run as herself, by herself.

[Carolina]

25. She choose the bottom dwellers

and she could have fired them...

The buck stops with Hillary.

[Patsy Stone]

26. I would have fired Penn

after Iowa, and Wolfson after NH.

[CorpGovActivist]

48. Her judgment is showing, tho, Pats.

Honestly, she deserves the reflection. She constructed the mirror, and the face in it.

- Dave

[lisa58]

2. she might have deserved better...

...but she did not choose better.

She assumed toooo much - and she suffered for it.

[chieftain]

4. Agreed.

[Mojambo]

3. I think the compaison to Teddy Kennedy is quite apt.

I'd be thrilled if she challenged Reid for Senate Majority Leader.

[Coexist]

5. anyone with Nixon-grade flop sweat should NOT go on tv

when they represent someone else.

Why they did that is beyond me.

[Lerkfish]

6. This is what I've been saying all along. Even though I didn't prefer her, she was

very ill served by her advisors.

[HeraldSquare212]

7. I agree. Without Bill, and with less calculation, she could have been incredible.

some day she'll be a story about a great tragedy.

[Lerkfish]

10. that tragedy is spelled D-L-C

nuff said.

[madaboutharry]

8. They did not serve her well

It is a shame. It reminds me of all the ill advice Al Gore got in 2000.

[tishaLA]

18. Yup. Campaign by committee

I'm sure that the recent reports of internal fighting are not new; they have probably hounded the campaign since Iowa. Remember the reports that a shakeup was in the works on the day of the NH primary? The results there simply staved off the inevitable, but making the changes then, ironically, would have allowed her to fashion a campaign that worked throughout the longer-than-expected primary season. Her victory, in many ways, was the worse thing that could have happened to her.

[tekisui]

11. I agree. Her campaign could have been ran a helluva a lot better.

[Tresalisa]

13. I read lots of opinion pieces from both the right and the left,

and there has been speculation about Hillary's campaigning and her valuing loyalty in her campaign staff over experience and political acumen.

I think she's got what it takes, she's smart and savvy and would make a great president, but her apparent missteps are puzzling. :shrug:

[Divernan]

32. Presidency is not a figurehead position like being Queen of England.

Determining foreign policy and exercising world leadership are major duties.
A president needs to be a shrewd judge of character and ability and intelligence when interacting with other leaders, as well as when selecting his/her representatives, cabinet members, federal judges, ambassadors,administrative agency heads, etc. So she would make a poor president.

[billyoc]

14. Yes, the DLC's best men. Good to see them out in the sunshine. nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Passing on Schrum was a huge mistake.

[nomorewhopper]

19. I agree. Great analysis

I think that Hillary ran a terrible campaign, that she was ill served by her strategists, and that she ran a campaign like it was 1992 all over again.

the packaged, corporate gloss, the planted questions, the scripted encounters - its just all so pre-internet, very 1996, maybe 2000.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

21. Oh I totally agree, I'm not sure whose fault it was, but at times

it really has seemed like somebody within was sabotaging her campaign!

[K Gardner]

24. I believe you may be right about all of the above. K&R

[ecstatic]

28. Bill destroyed her campaign

and embarrassed himself.

[chieftain]

36. He damaged himself in this effort. He can help himself and

HRC by being an enthusiastic, vocal and visible supporter of the Obama ticket if that is the way it unfolds.

[Cha]

29. They never stood up to bush like

they're trying to smear Obama. hilary is reaping what she sows.

[KittyWampus]

33. You get the staff you hire. Bill & Hillary drank the Power Kool-Aid years ago.

[chieftain]

47. I also think that it is a case of becoming what you fight.

Wolfson is clearly a reaction to a percieved need to have her own attack dog. Penn seems to be a massive personification of triangulation.

[mmonk]

34. They have not served her well so far.

They went a little negative a little early instead of helping build her up.

[karynnj]

35. Ted Kennedy is still there himself and his heir, if he has one, might be Kerry

It was Kerry who took most of the tough, but ultimately right positions since 2004 - not Hillary Clinton. Kennedy himself chose Kerry over everyone else for President in 2004 and 2008 - my guess is that Kerry is far better positioned to be the next great Democratic leader. He also has the seniority that she will not have fort years and that is important.

[riverwalker]

37. birds of a feather

flock together

[David Zephyr]

38. Mark Penn. I don't blame Bill. He's being a husband. But Penn. What a monster.

Penn was right at the top of the components that kept driving me away from Hillary's candidacy. I posted about it throughout November and December until I made up my mind in January.

He is simply a shitbag. I wish Hillary would fire his ass tonight.

[chieftain]

40. MSNBC is reporting that Penn is convinced that without the

negative ads, they would have lost by more. So the lesson that Penn has taken from this is to be more negative. Stupid is as stupid does.

[anigbrowl]

51. Did someone say fire?

Sorry :-)

[Donna Zen]

39. TeamClinton

They are a team, and they reflect her choices. Also, Penn and Wolfson (and Bill) have been with her for a long time.

For a long, long time, TeamClinton has been dissing the netroots. Prehaps they believed that we only exist on the web and aren't the same people who knock on doors and make the phone calls. Thus, they didn't listen. They didn't understand that while we understand the need for trade, we want fair trade. They didn't understand that watching an unnecessary war ruin our country was important to us. They missed the fact the Constitution was very important to us. They negated how pissed we are about lobbyists having more important than our needs.

The good news is that this campaign is proving that what is important on the web is important to America.

The good news is that TeamClinton woke up however slowly to how unified we really are. The good news is how TeamClinton have shifted her message to address our issues.

Nevertheless, TeamClinton came to realize what was up too late....and too reluctantly.

I don't blame any of them because they are who they are. Change is hard. It takes more than a few insiders talking to each other. Change will always come from the bottom up.

What TeamClinton is doing now is hurting our chances in November.

[chieftain]

41. I agree with all you said, especially that real change comes

from the bottom up. And it is too true that they are hurting the Party's chances in November.

[Donna Zen]

43. Thanks, but I'm worried

It seems from the reporting tonight that TeamClinton's lesson learned is that they must go more negative.

Kathleen Hall Jamison on Moyers' Journal said that the most damaging ads against a candidate come from the primary by their own party. What is being said today by TeamClinton will haunt us for a long time.

[chieftain]

45. I think I heard that Wolfson said tonight that Obama's

negatives can only go up. So we should expect more attacks from Hillary. I have been encouraged by the lack of substance and impact in all of the efforts by TeamClinton (do I have your permission to use your phrase?) to tarnish barack. If the only things that the Clinton oppo people can come up with are presidential ambitions in kindergarten papers and echoing a friends speeches, I feel pretty good about our chances.

[Avalux]

42. She chose them. Makes me wonder who she'd choose for her cabinet.

Another example of poor judgement and it's obvious she has no real control over her campaign.

[grantcart]

52. did you see Joshua Green's article too much stress on loyalty

your right about the Senate it is perfect for her

[ShortnFiery]

53. HRC made her bad choices. She's super intelligent but out of touch with "the mood state"

of 21st Century Americans. Working hard and being highly intelligent doesn't make one "a leader." She can work with "small groups" of people in an excellent way, but she can not inspire the masses nor MOTIVATE people to want to make the system work. Although she's not my candidate and I'm very biased in certain ways, I admit that HRC is gifted a legislator, just not, IMO, Presidential Material.