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Bush leads in Pennslyvania when Nader included in Poll (!!)

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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 08:47 AM
Original message
Bush leads in Pennslyvania when Nader included in Poll (!!)
Poll: Kerry, Bush tied in Pennsylvania
by Peter Jackson -- Associated Press
Wednesday, March 17, 2004

--
HARRISBURG, Pa. - (...) In the three-way race, Republican Bush is supported by 44 percent of the state's voters, compared with 40 percent for Democrat Kerry and 7 percent for Nader, who is running as an independent, according to the poll by the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. Eight percent were undecided.
Without Nader in the race, Kerry and Bush would be running even - with 45 percent and 44 percent respectively - and 7 percent of the voters were undecided, the poll found. (...)
Still, the significance of the horse-race numbers was tempered by a finding that, overall, 24 percent of the respondents said they might change their minds before Election Day. (...)

On issues, 36 percent of the respondents said Bush's economic policies have hurt Pennsylvania, 34 percent said they have had no effect and 19 percent say they have been helpful. Forty-seven percent said they were very or somewhat concerned they or a family member might lose their job this year.
Fifty-two percent of the respondents said going to war in Iraq was the "right thing" to do, and 39 percent said it was wrong. Support for the war varied with political affiliation - 77 percent of Republicans, 48 percent of independents and only 28 percent of Democrats.
The institute surveyed 1,022 registered Pennsylvania voters by telephone between March 9 and March 15. The sampling error margin for the survey is plus or minus three percentage points.

--
Read the rest here.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow
We're boned.
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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. What is wrong with the American People??/
DAMN!!! I have very little respect for most Americans to begin with, but this shit is starting to make me have more ill feelings then just disrespect for our obviously out to lunch countrymen....

Someone please tell me how anyone could contemplate Electing Bush???? Maybe i'm dense but I just do not get it...
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PA-DEM Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is why I am not even worried
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 09:15 AM by PA-DEM
Bush and Kerry are running close in the Philadelphia suburbs, where Democrat Ed Rendell ran strong in his successful race for governor.

(Gore destroyed Bush in this area in 2000, it wasnt even close.)
(this makes four straight polls that have Kerry beating Bush in a head to head)

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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah
It's hard for me to imagine Bush winning Penn with all the job losses there. Ohio and Missouri will be key to this election.

I don't know if we can take Florida this time with a Mass dem on the ticket.
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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. This is why Gephardt makes the most sense for VP
We need him for MO and the heartland. If he is on board as VP I think we can take Missouri and take the election..
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Job losses in PA are not a strictly Republican phenomenon
My city can go to hell and Robert Reich of the Clinton administration thinks that's just hunky dory.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nader's magic number....
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 09:15 AM by fujiyama
seems to be 7%.

I wouldn't be too worried. All that matters is turnout and I think dems did a hell of a job last time in a state Bush faught hard for.

People should stop freaking out over Nader. His only plus point is name recogntion...He may not even have ballot access...

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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Still it is disturbing
I expect that Nader will have a hard time getting on the ballot in most states and it's very possible his whole effort will turn out to be a non-campaign.

Still it is very disturbing that anybody would pick Nader when the effect is clearly a vote for Bush
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mndemocrat_29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. It is still not good
Nader's numbers should (hopefully) dwindle in the upcoming months, as the public becomes more acquainted with Kerry.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. A number of pollsters also have indicated that
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 11:16 AM by Nicholas_J
they expect Nader also to begin to drain away support from Bush as well, and the polls will start balancing out again:

The concern Democrats are feeling now will soon be shared by Republicans when Mr. Nader begins tapping the president's base in a noticeable way, a Nader campaign spokesman said yesterday.
"There are a lot of potential factions that will not support him this time, and Nader will be taking votes from both parties," spokesman Kevin Zeese said.
"The Reform Party supported Bush in 2000 and they had been urging Ralph to run before he announced. We suspect that as the race progresses, we will get more support from people who supported Bush but are now unhappy with jobs going overseas and corporate welfare that undermines entrepreneurs."


http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040317-122908-7194r.htm


This is fron a conservative source, the Washington Times, but others have indicated tha same thing, and several polls which rate the candidates with and without Nader in the mix have shown both Bush and Kerry losing the same amount of points when Nader is added into the mix (American Research's latest poll runs in that direction).

With the Reform Party supporting Naders run, it can be expected that a rather large portion of the REpublican voters weho leaned in the direction of Perot in 1992, will lean towards Nader in 2004.


Its important to also remember what has happened in the primary process so far, with Kerry in the lead in the earliest stages, falling back for a while, and then coming very stringly into the front at the end. The trends that Kerry's polling have followed for this campaign for the nomination are not unique for Kerry. In his past campaigns for Senator, the same trends have been seen in his campaigns, with hem falling behind his Republican opponent until the last few weeks of the campaign and then pulling forward in a large way at the end of the race. It is likely that Kerry will hold back anything that could reeally be harmful to the Bush Administration until the very end of the campaighn season. There is a great liklihood that Joe Wilson, the one of the last Ambassadors to Iraq, as well as RAnd Beers are putting together a concise history of the events leading to the terrorist attacks in New York, as well as the history of the Bush Administrations plans to invade Iraq.

Ther is a great deal of information that indicated that Bush and his administration were given sdignificant warnings from the Clinton transition team that Al Qaeda shoulld bee treated as the biggest threat to national security, and that the Bush Administration ignored the warnings of Richard Clark, Clintons chief terrorism advisor. Clarks warnings were backed up by George Tenet at the time, and Tenet was also advising that the Bush Administration begin a policy of increasing security measures at entrace points to the United States.

The Bush Administration has of course, absolved itself of ineptitude prior to 9/11 and has insisted that there was no way they could have known that Al Qaeda was planning to hijacl planes and use suicide attacks to accomplish the task that they set for themselves, but in the month prior to the attacks, Zacharias Moussoaui was captured, it was known that he was arrested for suspicion of links to terrorism, and his arrest was based on suspicious attempts to learn how to fly commercial airliners, but not how to land them.

Rand Beers as an insider would be privy to the policies set by the incoming Bush Administration and the priorities that the Bush Admiinstration set for both the FBI and the CIA with regards to the type of intelligence that the new administration wanted them to focus on. There is a good deal of evidence. both from interviews with people who were involves with the transition and from other sources, that the Bush Administration had the intelligence services of the United States focusing its efforts on drug trafficking rather than terrorism.While these agencies were not ignoring terrorism, orders given to them required less focus on terrorists, and more focus of drugs and Iraq. There was good intelligence regarding Al Qaeda and its plans, but the Republican Administration did not give it as high a priority as they gave other things, and did not allocate the resources to spend more time with it.

Then end result was ignoring good intelligence about the plans of Al Qaeda, while trying to twist bad intelligence on Iraq to justify military action to unseat Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party.

I expcect that Kerry will let Bush keep focusing on how good a wartime president he is, and then bring down the hammer on the events that allowed Al Qaeda to attack the U.S. and then use this to justify a a pre-emtive war with Iraq who had nothing to pre-empt.

There are a number of Democrats from the CLinton Administration preparing reports and op-ed pieces for the major media that completely reveal the warnings given to Bush by the Clinton transition team in order to invalidate Bush's claims on being strong on National Security, while insinuating that Kerry would be an unsafe choice. The reports will give background on the over 20 Al Qaeda attempts to mount a campaign of terror within the United States which the CLinton ANti-Terrorism team thwarted after they learned the lessons of the forst attempts on the World Trade Center. They will also be revealing how Al Qaeda succeeded on its very first attempt as a result of the Bush Administrations failure to maintain the ANti Terror team as soon as it Bush was elected:


The bombing in Spain would seem to lend credence to Cheney’s dark vision that, “Instead of losing thousands of lives, we might lose tens or even hundreds of thousands of lives as a result of a single attack, or a set of coordinated attacks.” However, the fact that this horrific act may have been perpetrated upon the people of Spain as punishment for supporting the Americans in their invasion of Iraq, belies that fact and leads us to the conclusion that it wouldn’t have happened had the US not invaded Iraq. And had the US not been distracted in Iraq, we quite possibly could have been paying more attention on an intelligence level and perhaps prevented it from happening at all. But we’ll never know what might have been had we not rushed into Iraq under false pretenses. This, however, will not stop Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle and company from using it as an excuse for further aggression in the Middle East.



Did anyone else notice that on the same day as the bombings in Spain they were also making a lot of noise in the media about Uday and Qusay being granted asylum in Syria at the start of the war? Why they came back is beyond me. But you don’t have to be psychic to know who’s next on their list.



George W. Bush was quoted by Bob Woodward in his book, Bush at War, as promising, during a meeting at the governor’s mansion in 1999, “to export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great country and rid the world of evil.” Keep in mind; this was before he was even appointed president and way before 9/11.



Stay tuned for news of Bush & Co. ignoring repeated warnings by Richard Clarke, Sandy Berger and others from Clinton’s team about Bin Laden and threats to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings…the last of these warnings coming on Sept. 6th, 2001.

http://www.opednews.com/burgwin031404_taste.htm


Bush has seen a small bump in several polls over the last few days, but most of the polls done at the national level still show Kerry with a significant lead on Bush. A few have shown Bush ahead, but actually in a dead heat with Kerry, withing the margin of errors in those polls.

Once the record of the actual events leading to 9/11 and the facts that the Bush Administration actually had warnings not only that Al Qaeda was planning a major attack within the U.S. , but were actually given warnings about the methods that the terrorists were planning to use, Bush's ratings in his handling of terrorism may see little bit of a decline. Clinton's recent coming out in support of Kerry might seem to indicate that Clinton will be providing Kerry with access and support of the members of his Foreign Relations staff, and his Anti-Terrorism Staff in order to take Bush down a few pegs.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Nader taking votes from Bush? Yes -- says the campaign spokesperson
:eyes:
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. i know the nader 4 prez coordinator locally and she says
lots of old school cons and libertarian types who worked with her on getting an anti patriot act res here are interested and are helping with the local nader campaign ( iam in texas so it dont matter here)
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. They'll vote for Harry Browne, then.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. well they know her from working with her and became friends
nothing like bonding over organizing to help defend the bill of rights some yeah might vote liberatarian but mikle badarnik has been campaigning here more alot of them i met last summer as well they didnt the war either
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. 8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months
8 months

I'll start getting hysterical later.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. A lot of Repugs may be saying "Nader" when the pollsters call.
Believing that with an ounce of encouragement Nader will mindlessly march to the finish line without ever giving the slightest consideration to dropping out for the greater good of the planet. They know very well how to exploit his egotism.
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