Brian Williams; "What Happens If Someone Tries To Win This Dirty?"

[SoFlaJet]

You notice which campaign they are referring to? It isn't the Obama camp threatening to usurp the will of the voters. The Clinton Campaign are the ones who will tear this party apart if necessary-any and everything is on the table in this power grab try. The other day in a thread I asked if they would consider a 3rd party run if they lose, what's the difference if they DO "pull a Lieberman" or try and "steal" pledged delegates as Harold Wolfson is suggesting (in Roger Simon's Politico article) they will attempt to do. It will potentially tear the democratic party apart and give the presidency to McCain and the republicans again, which is alright with them I guess because they would then be in a position to challenge again in 2012. I do not trust the Clintons anymore-if they DO continue to "go dirty" like they are now with these sleazeball ads and this backroom finagling with delegate counts. Obama needs to beat them soundly today and in Texas and Ohio. THEY are the biggest threat right now to the democratic party.

[End Of The Road]

1. Huh?

Could you provide a little context, or a link, before the streamofconsciousness stuff?

[DJ13]

MSNBC is showing pieces of a Brian Williams interview with Obama all day

Maybe you can find the entire interview on their website.

[End Of The Road]

10. Thanks!

I keep the TV off as much as possible these days, so I had no clue what the OP was talking about!

[SoFlaJet]

8. there is no link

come on over and I'll rewind the DVR for you. It was a piece with BW talking to Tim Russert and Chuck Todd about a half hour ago-they were referring to an article by Roger Simon in the Politico where Wolfson says they will try and dissuade some Obama pledged delegates to switch their votes-Google is your friends try it

[lapfog_1]

17. The politico article has been posted here already

the clinton campaign denies it.

What is needed is confirmation that someone closely connected in the Clinton campaign says that they are going after PLEDGED DELEGATES (either from a caucus or primary).

Someone willing to go on record.

Otherwise this is just a piece of slander...

(and NOTE who I'm supporting in this election)

[Nedsdag]

20. That's the Clintons for you!

Win by any means necessary.

[lapfog_1]

26. Look, I lost all respect for the Clintons when that lawsuit seeking

to suppress the vote of union workers was filed ON THEIR BEHALF in Nevada.

But this is simply beyond outrage. IF IT IS TRUE!

Which, right now, we don't know. What we have is a story, written by someone who claims to have a source high up in the Clinton campaign. One source, not willing to go on record.
The Clinton campaign has already issued a denial.

That someone saw some pundits talking about the article does not count as a second source.

We need the original leaker on record, probably under oath, potentially under a lie detector OR we need a second source within the Clinton campaign OR a statement admitting to this naked power grab from the Clintons.

Should we get that, I'm all for pitchforks and torches and throwing the bastards out of the party. But failing that... all we have is one anonymous sourced article which sounds really bad. Don't fall for a "Dan Rather" here either!

[SoFlaJet]

27. or....

we just have to watch their actions going forward

[lapfog_1]

30. Sure... but if a hundred delegates flipped

would you know? How about only 50?

The problem is that there are so many numbers flying around about pledged v. non pledged and blah blah blah that a flip of 50 might happen without anyone being the wiser.

Or worse... suppose I wanted to engineer something like this... I wouldn't flip a supporter for the first ballot... what I would do is flip 10 or 20 Obama supporters to the Credentials committee. Then, when that committee takes up the MI and FL delegate matter, as they will sometime before the convention, Hillary gets her delegates seated. And with those and enough super delegates... there goes the nomination. Would anyone really be the wiser on it? How much transparency will there be at committee meetings for the boring old Credentials committee? All within the rules too!

[shraby]

2. Anyone seen Rove lately? Maybe he went

to work under the table for the Clinton campaign.

[Captain Hilts]

3. This is actually not a very dirty campaign at all. DU and Kos aren't 'the campaign'.nt

[billbuckhead]

4. Others think the Obama movement is the biggest threat to Democratic party

Swifboating the Clintons on race in South Carolina was the most despicable thing done in this party in decades and will hurt the future of the party if Obama benefits.

[stillcool]

28. I must have missed something...

if this what you mean by "swiftboating the Clinton's"?

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.

Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused. I made unfortunate comments that do not accurately reflect my bipartisan conviction, political philosophy, or most importantly, my opinions about Senator Obama and his historic campaign for the United States presidency."

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

Source: Hillary Adviser Harold Ickes Tells Surrogates To Refer To Super-Delegates As "Automatic Delegates"
By Greg Sargent - February 12, 2008, 11:43AM

In a sign that the spin war over the significance of super-delegates is underway in earnest, Harold Ickes told assorted Hillary supporters on a private conference call yesterday that the campaign wants them to start referring to super-delegates as "automatic delegates," according to someone on the call.

The person I spoke to paraphrases Ickes, who is spearheading Hillary's super-delegate hunt, this way: "We're no longer using the phrase super delegates. It creates a wrong impression. They're called automatic delegates. Because that's what they are."

The worry appears to be that the phrase "super-delegates" implies that "they have super-powers or super influence when they don't," the source says, describing Ickes' thinking. In other words, the phrase suggests that they have greater than average clout and that they have the power to overrule the democratic process, giving it the taint of back-room power politics
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

[SoFlaJet]

32. thanks Still cool

great post we need to keep that one handy-I just mailed it to myself that should work

[stillcool]

38. Just to let you know...

I'm missing a link in there. The article about the smear email can be found here:
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html
:hi:

[anamandujano]

34. Take a look at Obama's scorched earth campaign when you

have a chance.

[stillcool]

36. got a link?

I like to read the words as they appear on the page.

[jillan]

5. What about Obama's people trying to steal delegates???

That's okay because it is Obama? Is that what you are saying?

Obama Team Trying To Instill "Buyer's Remorse" In Clinton Backers

Members of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) who support Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) for president are pressuring their colleagues backing Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), telling them to listen to voters and switch their endorsements

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/16/obama-team-trying-to-inst_n_87018.html


I am soooo fcking sick of the double standard!

[LisaM]

7. That's true. I haven't heard of any pledged Obama delegates switching.

It IS a double standard.

[DJ13]

9. "What about Obama's people trying to steal delegates???"

Those arent regular pledged delegates, that refers to super delegates.

The same type of delegates the Clintons want to try and "steal" from Obama at the convention.

[jillan]

19. Isn't it Obama that doesn't want the superdelegates to count??

[GoldieAZ49]

35. No, you either are not following this or are intentionally making it up as you

go along grasping at straws.

Do a bit of research, you do have access to google.

[tabatha]

11. So Chelsea's and Bill's calls to the superdelegates don't count.

Both sides are doing it.

[RiverStone]

23. The ONLY standard needs to be that of the People...

That being the will of the electorate.

Super Delegates should mirror the votes of their constituency.

Including Ted Kennedy...

[SoFlaJet]

25. this isn't ABOUT Super delegates

this is about delegates that have already been won by the Obama camp-they want to try and steal delegates already pledged through the primary and caucus system RS

[babylonsister]

24. So now the CBC is Obama? And Obama is 'stealing'?

Nice try, but no dice.

[stillcool]

29. Super delegates...

as we know there are many who have already pledged their support. So one team tries to round them all up to their side to sway the election, before it is even over. What do you think the other side should do....let them?

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/superdeleg.pdf

[meow mix]

6. i just mentioned this in another thread and was called a liar

its pretty unbelievable i guess

[lapfog_1]

22. I won't call you a liar

but we need something more than a rehash by talking head of the politico article.

We need multiple sources... just like a real journalist.

These are VERY SERIOUS charges being slinged around.

This is not like Bill or Chelsea calling some super delegates and asking for their support, nor like camp Obama calling the CBC (super delegates) and asking them to switch their endorsements.

Super delegates were not elected or "caucused" to represent a group of people for this election. They might or might not be elected officials. Only pledged delegates are representing the "will of the people" at the convention. To try to flip a pledged delegate to vote against who they were elected to represent is tantamount to election fraud.

And it's not against the rules... but it is also NOT DONE.

Which is why this is a very serious charge. IF it's being done, well... they better have good barricades in Denver!

[lastliberalintexas]

12. Personally, I'd say the media is the biggest threat to the Dem party

I don't think either of the 2 candidates will or are trying to tear the party apart. The media who will viciously attack our nominee and give the presidency to McCain, on the other hand...

But then, I'm not a supporter with blinders on, so I can see things a little more clearly than those in the 2 camps left around here.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. negative campaigning is useful at the very beginning not at the end

at the beginning you sew the seeds against your opposing candidate - at the end you cannot be too negative unless you are very sure they can't come back at you. People are saying "she's losing so she's is playing dirty"

[THUNDER HANDS]

14. she'll do whatever it takes to win

if she was this forceful about stopping the march into Iraq, we probably never would have went.

[SoFlaJet]

15. Great point Magic Rat

or if she showed this much tenacity on the Kyl/Lieberman debate...she folded like a cheap rug on that one too...oh that's right she'll just say she didn't know they actually want to nuke Iran

[billbuckhead]

31. But Obama's so tenacious he voted "present" over 100 times

What a double standard.

[TexasObserver]

16. That's why Campaign Hillary has asked to use Chamillionaire's song for her campaign now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7ncJEFuSw

[liberal N proud]

18. The media, polluting the democratic process

There is no safe media outlet all have been polluted and should not be seen with naked eyes.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Oh, put a sock in it.

Nobody is stealing anybody's delegates at this point. This is all speculation.

THEY are the biggest threat right now to the democratic party.

Really? I always thought it was this:

[anamandujano]

33. Add in the Obama supporters parroting right wing talking points.

Obama is using all the talking points the Repukes have spent millions etching into stone. He and his surrogates, and his supporters here at DU, use them since they are bankrupt of any ideas that approach "new."

What is he going to say to McCain when he's cornered, after the laughter quells from his "Hillary did it too" or "She's worse" or "She voted for IWR, I gave a speech.?"

McCain will spend the whole campaign in "WTF" mode.

[apocalypsehow]

37. Excellent post, K & R.

n/t