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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:02 PM
Original message
Obama's PRO-WAR RECORD
A PRO-WAR RECORD



Then there’s the matter of his actual policy and political record. If Obama is such (as many “progressives” seem to need to believe) an “antiwar” candidate, why has he offered so much substantive policy support to the criminal occupation and the broader imperial “war on terror” of which Bush says O.I.F. is a part? Here are some highlights from a summary of Obama’s U.S. Senate voting record recently sent to me by the Creative Youth News Team (CYNT 2007), a progressive African American advocacy organization:



“1/26/05: Obama voted to confirm Condoleezza Rice for Secretary of State. Rice was largely responsible…for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent victims in unnecessary wars...Roll call 2”



“2/01/05: Obama was part of a unanimous consent agreement not to filibuster the nomination of lawless torturer Alberto Gonzales as chief law enforcement officer of the United States (U.S. Attorney General).”



“2/15/05: Obama voted to confirm Michael Chertoff, a proponent of water-board torture... man behind the round-up of thousands of people of Middle-Eastern descent following 9/11. By Roll call 10.”



“4/21/05: Obama voted to make John ‘Death Squad’ Negroponte the National Intelligence Director. In Central America, John Negroponte was connected to death squads that murdered nuns and children in sizable quantities. He is suspected of instigating death squads while in Iraq, resulting in the current insurgency. Instead of calling for Negroponte's prosecution, Obama rewarded him by making him National Intelligence Director. Roll call 107”



“4/21/05: Obama voted for HR 1268, war appropriations in the amount of approximately $81 billion. Much of this funding went to Blackwater USA and Halliburton and disappeared. Roll call 109 ”



“7/01/05: Obama voted for H.R. 2419, termed ‘The Nuclear Bill’ by environmental and peace groups. It provided billions for nuclear weapons activities, including nuclear bunker buster bombs. It contains full funding for Yucca Mountain, a threat to food and water in California, Nevada, Arizona and states across America. Roll call 172 .”



“9/26/05 & 9/28/05: Obama failed and refused to place a hold on the nomination of John Roberts, a supporter of permanent detention of Americans without trial, and of torture and military tribunals for Guantanamo detainees.”

“10/07/05: Obama voted for HR2863, which appropriated $50 billion in new money for war. Roll call 2 .”



“11/15/05: Obama voted for continued war, again. Roll call 326 was the vote on the Defense Authorization Act (S1042) which kept the war and war profiteering alive, restricted the right of habeas corpus and encouraged terrorism. Pursuant to his pattern, Obama voted for this. .”



“12/21/05: Obama confirmed his support for war by voting for the Conference Report on the Defense Appropriations Act (HR 2863), Roll call 366, which provided more funding to Halliburton and Blackwater. ”



“5/2/06: Obama voted for money for more war by voting for cloture on HR 4939, the emergency funding to Halliburton, Blackwater and other war profiteers. Roll call 103 .”



“5/4/06: Obama, again, voted to adopt HR4939: emergency funding to war profiteers. Roll call 112 .”



“6/13/06: Obama voted to commend the armed services for a bombing that killed innocent people and children and reportedly resulted in the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi… Michael Berg, whose son was reportedly killed by al-Zarqawi, condemned the attack and expressed sorrow over the innocent people and children killed in the bombing that Obama commended. Roll call 168 .”



“6/15/06: Obama voted for the conference report on HR4939, a bill that gave warmongers more money to continue the killing and massacre of innocent people in Iraq and allows profiteers to collect more money for scamming the people of New Orleans. Roll Call 171 .”



“6/15/06: Obama, again, opposed withdrawal of the troops, by voting to table a motion to table a proposed amendment would have required the withdrawal of US. Armed Forces from Iraq and would have urged the convening of an Iraq summit (S Amdt 4269 to S. Amdt 4265 to S2766) Roll Call 174 ”



“6/22/06: Obama voted against withdrawing the troops by opposing the Kerry Amendment (S. Amdt 4442 to S 2766) to the National Defense Authorization Act. The amendment, which was rejected, would have brought our troops home. Roll Call 181 ”



“6/22/06: Obama voted for cloture (the last effective chance to stop) on the National Defense Authorization Act (S 2766), which provided massive amounts of funding to defense contractors to continue the killing in Iraq. Roll Call 183.”



“6/22/06: Obama again voted for continued war by voting to pass the National Defense Authorization Act (S 2766) for continued war funding. Roll Call 186 .



9/7/06: Obama voted to give more money to profiteers for more war (H..R. 5631). Roll Call 239 ”



“9/29/06: Obama voted vote for the conference report on more funding for war, HR 5631. Roll Call 261 .”



“11/16/06: Obama voted for nuclear proliferation in voting to pass HR 5682, a bill to exempt the United States-India Nuclear Proliferation Act from requirements of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Roll Call 270 .”



“12/06/06: Obama voted to confirm pro-war Robert M. Gates to be Secretary of Defense. Gates is a supporter of Bush's policies of pre-emptive war and conquest of foreign countries. Roll Call 272 ”



“Obama's voting record in 2007 establishes that he continues to be pro-war. On March 28, 2007 and March 29th, 2007, he voted for cloture and passage of a bill designed to give Bush over $120 billion to continue the occupation for years to come (with a suspendable time table) and inclusive of funding that could be used to launch a war with Iran. Roll calls 117 and 126 ...Obama's record shows a minimum of 20 major pro-war votes…”





Wow. I might have worded things a little differently than CYNT at times, but that’s a damning bill of indictment.



Obama’s intra-Democratic political record also defies those who insistent on wrapping him in an antiwar flag. In 2006 Obama lent his celebrity and political finance assistance to neoconservative war Senator Joe Lieberman’s (“D”-Connecticut) struggle against the Democratic antiwar insurgent Ned Lamont. Obama supported other mainstream Democrats fighting genuinely antiwar progressives in primary races, collaborating with Democratic muscle man Rahm Emannuel’s campaign to marginalize “peaceniks” within the party (see Sirota 2006, Silverstein 2006 and Cockburn 2006).



In a November 2005 speech to the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Obama rejected Rep. John Murtha’s (D-Pa.) call for a rapid redeployment and any notion of a timetable for withdrawal. Obama advocated “a pragmatic solution to the real war we’re facing in Iraq” and made repeated references to the need to “defeat” the “insurgency.” This language meant continuation of the war (Ford and Gamble 2005).



Earlier that same year, Obama shamefully distanced himself from his fellow Senator Dick Durbin’s (D-IL) forthright criticism of U.S. torture practices at Guantanamo (Street 2005; Cockburn 2006).





And he still refuses to foreswear the use of first-strike nuclear weapons against Iran (Gerson 2007). As Kucinich pointed out during last night’s debate, this is what Obama’s comment that “all options are on the table” in regard to Iran really boils down to: the potential first black U.S. President is willing to seriously consider the launching of a thermonuclear attack on that country. Debate participant Mike Gravel (a left former U.S. Senator of Alaska)was thinking of that horrific possibility when said the following about the leading Democratic candidates (Obama included of course) last night: “these people scare me.”



http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=12687
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ouch. eom
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. Hillary about Kosovo: "I urged him to bomb."
Tomorrow's Neocon Today
Why Clinton II wouldn't offer much change from Bush II

Radley Balko | October 19, 2007

She once boasted that as the tension in Kosovo mounted,
she called her husband from her trip to Africa and,
"I urged him to bomb."




Such is why President Bush has recently had some nice things to say about Hillary Clinton, leading some to speculate that Bush sees her as the Eisenhower to his Truman—a candidate from the opposing party who criticizes his foreign policy during the campaign, but will likely pursue a very similar policy should she be elected.



http://www.reason.com/news/show/123103.html
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #44
77. So, what would Obama have done about Kosovo?
Just curious, your take.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:05 PM
Original message
Ya, but before he was a Senator, he was against it.
I'm sure if he had been a Senator then, he would have went against leadership and voted against the IWR. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :rofl: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :rofl: as his vote record clearly indicates.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
71. Yup. The biggest fairy tale ever
;)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
106. * then he did not know what he would do
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. * then he was against it
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. * then he funded it
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. * then decided to run for pres--now really really against it
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. * then many DU and media base evidence on a NON-existantant "vote"
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. stack those up against a list of Hillary's votes on the same thing, and you'd have a good post
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You mean showing that they are essentially, identical?
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I mean showing whatever they show
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Did Hillary campaign for warmonger Lieberman? BO did.
The way to make sure a war keeps going is to support the people who support it. Joe Lieberman is the biggest war hawk in the Dem Party. If we had got rid of Lieberman in 2006, Democrats could TODAY have the votes to begin pulling out of Iraq.

But we didn't get rid of Lieberman the warmonger, and one reason we didn't is Barrack Obama, hypocritical enabler of warmongers. (Hypocritical, because one either opposes the war or supports it, not both.)
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. yup Obama supported Lieberman
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
94. "Lamont Gets Help From Obama"
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
76. who do you think mentored bomba?
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:07 PM
Original message
Why don't we be fair and put Hillary's votes up on these same bills?
Then it will be clearer in choosing who was wrong more often.

I bet it will be Hillary.

Rp
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'd venture to say that they are almost,if not actually, identical.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
72. They are identical on the war. That is the point!
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #72
96. No they are not.
This thread assumes that there is no difference between voting to authorize Bush to use military force against Iraq and voting to supply US forces already in combat.

Can you name one instance in US history where Congress voted to defund a war?

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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you. Finally someone talks about *his actual record.*
And how shaky it is!

This man has done little except support a Reagan Democrat type of party line not much distinguishable from many of the young neoconservatives. His entire reputation as a liberal comes from his speech at the last convention. He's a fad, and if he can't take his supporters where he's promised them, he'll wind up as the next Howard Dean. All flash, no substance. And no realism.

He's supported by the kind of people who want a quick and wordy solution to complex issues. They hate to think that the problems in this country may require a lot more depth.

Obama is, plain and simple, not much of a Senator, and he doesn't stack up as a potential president.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. IF Obama is so pro-war:
Why then did Dennis Kucinich tell his Iowa supporters to caucus for Obama as a second choice after himself??
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. As an attempt to thwart Edwards.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Obama Wasn't In The U.S. Senate When Hillary Was. So
it's pretty easy for him to say he was anti-war, and would have voted that way, but in the Illinois State Senate, he didn't have a vote at the time.

P.S. By the way, I do believe he is anti-war.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. But he was looking at running for the U.S. Senate.
Being anti-war was a risky position to take going into a national race.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. "Looking At Running" Isn't Quite The Same as Being A U.S. Senator Though
I am glad Obama is in the Senate. The Senate needs him. Wish he'd finish his first term though.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. that's just being picky
The fact remains that it was a politically risky position to take.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Risky For Hillary Maybe, But Not Obama (nt)
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
86. Oh please
his *cough* "opponent" was *cough * Alan Keyes.

David Duke could have beat him. There isn't enough sincerity in Obama to fill a thimble. He's a cross between a snake oil salesman and Mr. McGoo.
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Mags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
114. These Obama people can't handle the truth. You all should
know that by now. They never face it.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
69. Then why hasn't Kucinich endorsed Obama? nt
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #69
80. WOW...good point!
If Kooch ain't endorsing you, kinda hard to paint oneself as "anti-war". Great post!
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #80
124. But when Russ Feingold votes for you and Ned Lamont endorses you, it's
pretty obvious who's "anti-war."
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'll be, he does have a record.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. And a pretty nasty one, at that.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. BOOKmarked
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:13 PM
Original message
Obama did propose a troop withdrawal bill, which he sent to his own committee and was never voted on...
They call that there a Vanity Bill in the US Senate.
Propose it, have it read out, and then hide it from ever getting voted on.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. ahh gotta love them vanity bills
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. its always bothered me how he uses a NON-existant "vote" by him to advance
he so called anti war stance.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
73. it is very disingenuous of him.......
he really is full of shit
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. And you point is?
Where does Hillary differ on any of these things? Sure, they are bad. But again, at least he had the foresight to actually be against this war from the start, unlike Hillary.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. He was against something he subsequently supported?
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Could you be anymore dishonest?
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 02:10 PM by Pawel K
No.

He was against going in to Iraq in the first place. Once people like Hillary voted to go in to this mess there wasn't much he could do about that. His votes there after were wrong, but so were hillary's. It still doesn't change the fact that he was originally right and she was originally and afterwards totally wrong.

I mean really, is this your guy's new talking point. That Obama is just as bad as Hillary? I'm sure that will stick, congratulations. I guess if Hillary isn't winning you people are willing to take down the entire party with her by spreading this bullshit. Classy.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. when asked in the debates he said he is will to nuke Iran "all options are on the table"......
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 02:40 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
so yes do, let's be honest!
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. What does that have to do with my 1 simple point
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 04:07 PM by Pawel K
which is that Obama was against invading Iraq while Clinton voted for it? Something you failed to mention in your OP. You also failed to mention that Clinton has exactly the same position on all those issues. The 1 key difference is before we went in to this idiotic war, in that case Obama was right she was wrong.

These cheap distractions don't do you any justice. As always we are left with a douche and a turd. I find it funny that Hillary supporters are now running on the concept that Obama is just as bad as her instead of running on something a little more substantial.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. Obama supporters say he's the "anti-war" candidate
And that Hillary is a vicious war monger.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #65
87. but why is the OP trying to run on the fact that Obama is just as bad as Clinton?
It's amazing that at this point this is all she has to run on. What a sad party this has become.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Did you fdorget to post Hillary's pro war record?
I bet you did. You hillary people are getting really desperate.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. can't you read.?..this thread is about "Obama's pro-war record"
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
118. Only Obama bashers welcome.
The smell of rotting desperation and sour grapes is sickening.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. I don't think they "fdorget", but Obama supporters say HE is the "anti-war candidate" nt
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
78. HRC isn't on an anti-war platform like Obama is, is she?
This is about Obama. And it's completely a legitimate discussion to have. If he's portraying himself as the "anti-war" candidate, then people are being had.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am convinced!!! Russ Feingold for President!!!!
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks for posting
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 01:33 PM by UALRBSofL
Interesting reading
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Out of three candidates he's the least hawkish so....
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. how so he has said he would nuke Iran
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You must be confusing him with your candidates Clinton and McCain
He's the only one who's willing to talk directly to Iran.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. “all options are on the table” .....Barack Obama
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itcfish Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank You
It's about time somebody exposed St. Obama.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. amen
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #25
88. way past time--Thank you.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. And peace is war, up is down, and black is white.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. kick for rndmprsn
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. k & r
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yup. For someone who knew the war was "stupid" - there's no excuse.
I know I ragged on Edwards - because I doubted the sincerity of his change. But at least, true or not, his change was IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
The issue of trust is much more dramatic here.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. thank you
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
The cult will continue to ignore it though.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
121. I will keep reminding them of it
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
40. K/R
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. A KICK FOR Leopolds Ghost
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
45. ZMEG IS A KLINTOON SHILL RAG!!1!!!11!!!!!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. ROFL
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
111. Rovian tactic KILL THE MESSENGER
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thank you!
It's great to get beyond the lofty rhetoric and look at his record!

K&R
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poomie123 Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. ¡Qué mensaje bueno!
Translation: Great post!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Muchas gracias
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R - bookmarked...
thanks.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. wow- he's worse than I remembered
I had been hoping for good things from him after the 2004 speech, but he really disappointed me when he got into the senate.

I'm so glad my primary is behind me.
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
52. Wow look at the 7 people that keep kicking this thread - ITS NOT GOING TO STICK.. GET OVER IT.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Strange
What does that mean?

Do you not want to know the entire record of your candidate or at least what he has done on the major issues?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Thank you for that kick!
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Just consider it lots of ammo for McCain. What still living in La La Land?
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 09:57 PM by demo dutch
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. just posting the facts trying to open some eyes about St Obama before it's too late for us
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. St Obama with the "Yes we can" Unreality. See link
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
67. Thanks, n00b! nt
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
81. It won't stick...McCain's going to nail it to his forehead
And you'd better grow the fuck up and get used to seeing Obama get hammered on this shit if he gets the nom, because it is indeed going to happen.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #52
83. oh it'll stick along with the TONS of other shit the swiftboaters have stored up for him
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
55. Lots of ammo for McCain
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. that's what the rethugs want Obama ...cuz sadly they know he is the easiest to defeat in the GE
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Sure this country is somewhere in the middle not the far left or far right
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. We have two choices... neither are peaceniks
Both like the bomb
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. true that.!............. but many here don't get it and only blame Hillary
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. yup,,,
this GD:p forum gets pretty ugly, and brings out the worst in me. I try to stay out of it as much as I can.

I think either dem can beat McCain. They should just team up and get it over with.

:hi:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. a dream ticket it would be...sigh.....hey how's things in Newburgh and the baby must be getting big
I'll be down there on wednesday
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
91. there is another one, Louise - age 3 months
William is two. His mommy and daddy are big Obama or Bloomberg fans.

I will be working late tomorrow, until about 7:30pm.

Newburgh is getting strong. Best its been in my lifetime.

:hi:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #91
102. aww a little girl this time....I am so happy for all of you..Congatulations
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Which is why making your decision based solely on the IWR vote is RIDICULOUS
As many, many here have claimed to have done.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. agreed and sadly I do so
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
74. Oh my God...what a list! I'm going to bookmark that and send it to lots of "friends"
and unfortunately relatives too.

N o wonder Bill Clinton said it was a fairy tale that he was anti-war. He just says he is...just WORDS! He votes just like a Rethug. No wonder the Rethugs like him and are voting for him...he's one of them. Good grief! To think he might be our President!
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
75. His record is nearly as bad as Hillary's, that's for damn sure
No Change. that what you get with mccainhillaryobama.
still, i will vote for obama, most likely.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #75
79. I don't know about the mc cain thing being thrown in with them tho
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 01:43 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
82. Kick
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
84. another kick for the left coasties
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
85. Good work! REC
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
89. Voting to support the troops and veterans in harm's way that Hillary helped happen...
...is not "pro-war".

Are you suggesting that Obama should have voted against giving the troops protection in harm's way thanks to warmongers like Hillary and not fund Veterans who need support as well?

Give me a break...this "argument" is garbage.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. take off your magic Obama glasses and read it with your own eyes
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
92. a self kick for truth
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 07:17 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. Oh, a self-kicker. You're so noble!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
93. Take 30 seconds and you'll have no problem finding Clintons' PROBUSH RECORD.
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. Here It Is In Black & White
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
98. If Obama was truly anti war then based on the simple fact that
he spoke out against the war gives him the "security blanket" for lack of a better term to continue to vote against funding the war. It is the principle of the matter.

He can very easily say something to the effect of; I said from the beginning that going to war with Iraq was wrong therefore I cannot in good conscious vote to fund the war and in no means is an insult to our troops but I must remain true to my stance.

But he hasn't done this, my question is why??
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #98
105. Good question? Defunding the war would end it, as the budget
is approved months in advance. The troops wouldn't starve or be left unprotected as so many here misunderstand.

My problem with Mr.Anti-War, why isn't he grabbing a megahorn in the Senate cloakroom?

Isn't he a committee chairman? Has he ever convened his committee?

I'm sure these points of light will be coming at us by the GOP on his leadership credentials, heaven help the Dems.
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
99. And he will not hesitate to use a preemptive strike if the US is threatened. Thanks for posting. nt
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
100. Doh!!
I did not know that...or for that matter, anything substantive other than "hope".
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
101. kick
:kick:
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
103. 1 million dead Iraqis. Next. nt
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
104. Frightening n/t
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
112. An anti-war candidate can vote for funding in good conscience. As for the nominations...
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 05:23 PM by Infinite Hope
I won't defend that.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
113. thanks for the list. that's pretty brutal.
he's pretty much just as bad as Clinton on the illegal occupation.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
115. Unfortunately, as a Hillary supporter, you people have no legs to stand on when it comes to this.
While it's fine to point out Obama's record on this it makes no real difference because your candidate is just as bad, if not worse. Hillary supporters can't take the high road because there isn't one. :shrug:
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. Hillary isn't running as the anti-war candidate
Some people are only supporting Obama because they are too stupid to do research and know he's just as bad in regards to Iraq.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Doesn't matter. Hillary supporters can't complain. She's as pro-war as he is.
For someone like me, who doesn't like either of them, this line of argument is a joke, and makes Hillary supporters look as hypocritical as it makes Obama fans look ignorant. Even you admit he's "just as bad". Is that really the message Hillary supporters want to send out? :)
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #117
120. Hillary isn't running on an anti-war platform
How many times does that need to be drilled into your head?

OBAMA IS.

Its not about being hypocritical its about pointing out facts to uninformed Obama supporters. Obama is the one who is being dishonest not Hillary.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. I think Obama fans are plenty well informed. I think they don't care.
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 01:44 PM by Forkboy
A Hillary supporter complaining about ANYONE'S record on the war is laughable. I understand she isn't running on an anti-war message, thank you. But for someone like me, who doesn't support either one, it's like watching twins try to tell me the other one is ugly. My post was about my perception as a non-supporter of either one, and how silly this line or argument seems to me. If your mileage varies then that's swell.
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. Obama supporters don't know
I could link you to quite a few youtube videos of Obama supporters being clueless about Obama.

If the sole reason you support a candidate is for a false assumption you should know about it. Its my job to help educate folks. You can't say Obama is anti war so pick something else to support him with.

I am not for Hillary I am more anti-Obama. Hillary, sadly, just happens to be the only option left at this point.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. then why is Obama trying to decieve so many into believing that he is the anti-war candidate?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. I don't know...ask him.
His words don't mean anything to me. Saying he wouldn't have voted for it doesn't impress me because he never had to make that decision and talk is easy from the sidelines (just ask all of us on DU).

If I was a Hillary fan this is an avenue I wouldn't be in any hurry to travel down. But her campaign seems intent on self destruction, so have it...
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #119
125. Russ Feingold and Ned Lamont are so gullible!
:eyes:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
126. IWR, IWR, IWR, IWR, IWR, IWR, IWR. Kyle/Lieberman, Kyle/Lieberman, Kyle/Lieberman, Kyle/Lieberman
Quite frankly, when it comes down to it, it is a matter of accountability. Hillary voted to enable this illegal, immoral war that has killed over a million innocent. She has continued to support it, hasn't admitted that she made a mistake about it, and then went another step further and rattled the saber at Iran.

It is time that she was held accountable for her actions, which is what many millions of anti-war people across the country are doing it. If you don't like it, TS, tell your candidate that next time she shouldn't vote to enable Bushco's bloody war.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
127. He is not, and never has been, the "anti-war" candidate.
He is just as hawkish as the other one, but less honest about it.

A speech saying you opposed the war before it happened is not evidence. Evidence is what you do when you are in a position to act, and his votes speak for themselves.

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