Any other gays not bothered much by the McClurkin controversy?

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

Of course I resent what McClurkin believes, but I also understand that he does not represent Obama's views. As another poster put it, "Obama continually stresses the politics of inclusion and dialogue--being willing to accept people and engage with them even in the face of passionate and bitter disagreement. To give Donnie M the boot would cut against that." (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/10/23/213216/18).

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Welcome to DU--sincerely

Thank you for your post and the url. And, sincerely, welcome to DU! :hi:

I am straight, so I don't know what gays think of this--but will be coming back to read the posts, as I am curious about how they view this controversial situation.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

5. I think most gays consider it extremely offensive

and a reason to vote for Hillary. I'm not sure, but I think I'm in the minority for not seeing it as a big issue.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. I think it's unfortunate he continued with the rally

after knowing the offense it caused to a lot of GLBT people.

[maximusveritas]

4. I thought it was a mistake by Obama, but I'm more concerned about DOMA

and other more substantive issues.

[usregimechange]

6. I light of his pro-gay record:

http://www.nyblade.com/2008/1-25/viewpoint/opinion/1204OpEdObama.cfm

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

7. Thanks for posting this n/t

[usregimechange]

68. Your welcome!

:hi:

[joeybee12]

8. I am bothered because he chose one group over another...black

evangelicals in SC who aren't accepting, over gay people in SC who probably aren't that big of a voting bloc. If he had actually tried to engage people like Donny M, instead of giving him a forum, I'd understand...but this whole shit about dialogue is just his excuse for trying to have it both ways.

[DLnyc]

9. To me, the idea that Barack Obama is 'anti-gay' is just ridiculous.

He is clearly a person who understands, and cares about, prejudice and injustice. It's too bad he got caught between two different groups with the McClurkin thing, but to translate that into lack of support for LBGT people and issues is just ignorant, IMO. I have more hope that Obama will do something to reduce the level of bigotry and hatred in this messed up country, than that all the people hysterical about Donny McClurkin will ever actually improve anything in this country. Sorry, but I don't accept the 'orthodoxy' on this one.

[kdpeters]

10. I agree with you.

It was an unfortunate campaign gaff but nothing more than what we've come to expect from most politicians who don't quite get it. Hillary certainly doesn't get it any more than Obama. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of faux outrage around this issue for its political value to the Hillary campaign that it calls into question the credibility of those genuinely concerned. It's another example of our issues being used as political ping-pong balls by people who don't really care.

[noiretextatique]

11. inclusion and dialogue

it wasn't "dialogue" that ended segregation in this country...it was demand, followed by mandate. mcclurkin and others like him are entitled to their opinions about gay people, but do you want his opinions to have any inclusion in deciding what rights you have as a gay person?
i am nor am i willing to engage in passionate debate with anyone who believes that i am less than human, and deserve less rights in society because i am black or gay.

[theHandpuppet]

12. And I wonder how many people responding to your OP

... are gay themselves.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

26. Your name suits you well

You accuse people on a message board of not being gay just because they support a candidate that you do not.

[Iggo]

53. LOL @ accusing people of not being gay...n/t.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

57. Only on GDP

... I guess... I never thought I would be accused of being straight and have to give an argument of why I'm gay :spank:

[theHandpuppet]

54. Do you like Shari Lewis, too?

Well at least we have that in common, then.

[ruggerson]

13. Tell us about the Pegasus

[Blue-Jay]

20. LOL!

:D

[LostinVA]

45. I'm not going to Candy Mountain

I like my kidneys.

:rofl:

[hulklogan]

14. I'm not bothered by it because I know Senator Obama doesn't REALLY care about

GLBT Americans. It would have been the deciding factor for me were I have been able to caucus (I had to work the late shift that day), but I'm certainly not losing any sleep over Team McClurkin. In fact, I am shunning them.

[theHandpuppet]

15. You know, I've just got to get this off my chest

In the one week that you've been here posting your Obamagenda right and left, complete with links to articles, videos and the like, I find it highly curious that such an expert on the candidate's stance on the issues would suddenly be so clueless as to why many GLBT folks have a problem with this candidate. You imply that you are gay yourself yet you've read nothing about this controversy in the gay community? You've failed to participate in this discussion with other GLBT folk but now take it upon yourself to author your own thread on this controversy?

Yeah... okay. :eyes:

[LibraLiz1973]

17. Yeah... something STINKS

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

18. So sue me

:shrug:

Don't exactly know how you expect me to respond to this. You are accusing me of being straight because I don't participate in the anti-Obama GLBT threads. Oh well.

[ruggerson]

19. Tell us about Pegasus

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

22. Apparently it is a gay bar/night club

That's what a google search told me. If I don't know what pegasus is, that makes me straight? :wow:

I haven't been to the pegasus in Pitt.

[ruggerson]

24. Uh huh

yep

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

25. I'm putting you on ignore

Accusing me of being straight is humorous, in a sense. But first and foremost, it is insulting. Some Hillary supporters will try to spite others at ALL COSTS.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donheld]

34. It's best to put some jackasses on ignore

I don't know where all the gay bars are either. Some of us don't spend all our lives in bars.

[theHandpuppet]

38. Ruggerson is not a jackass just for recognizing what's going on here

And the OP still hasn't answered my questions, either. So his outrage at being slighted rings about as false as the pretense for this thread.

[ruggerson]

41. You're defending a sockpuppet

but knock yourself out

[Sapphocrat]

64. You're calling ruggerson a "jackass"...

...and implying that he's a barfly?

Just when I thought the slime couldn't get any deeper, it does. :puke:

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

65. If you were gay

and were accused of being straight after making your first LGBT related post, would you not be upset? Donheld is sticking up for me.

[Sapphocrat]

73. What does my post have to do with you?

I'm coming down on donheld for making a baseless -- and disgusting -- personal attack on ruggerson, a longtime, well-respected DUer, who does not deserve that kind of treatment.

It has nothing to do with you.

FYI: Frankly, while I've been called everything in the book from a troll to a paid operative to a warmonger to a man, I've never been accused of being straight on DU -- probably because my first post wasn't just the latest in a long line of newbie posts that appeared to be driving a wedge through DU's LGBT community in the middle of an extremely divisive primary season. Whether that was the intention of your OP or not, I really don't care, but since you appear to feel victimized, there it is: Your OP sounds like every other damned "I'm gay, and I don't understand all this 'faux outrage'..." post. Seen it, heard it, and argued with it so many times, I don't take it at face value anymore. No, I'll amend that: I don't buy it.

You want "gay cred" on DU? Don't assume -- especially at 22 years old and with a scant handful of posts to your name -- that we oldtimers don't know what we're talking about. And don't ever assume that somebody's your new BFF because you infer he's "sticking up" for you, when the reality of it that you mistook a lowdown, rotten, and completely unnecessary attack on another DUer as something else. You were just an excuse for that attack. Get it? You just got used.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

75. OK

I can accept your points (most of them), and you seem reasonable and sincere.

Still, I believe ruggerson, and many other posters here, are out of line. I guess it doesn't matter though :shrug:

There's been one constructive response to my first post, and the rest were really just bickering and wastes of time.

[Jamastiene]

69. Why is being called straight insulting to you?

That's really curious why you'd look at it that way. Most gay people I know wouldn't find that insulting. :wtf:

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

72. Because in the context of this thread

it is silly and childish. They are calling me a liar and implying that I am being deceptive for the petty reason of boosting Obamas image. It really isn't bad after I put them on ignore. I'm a bit pissy since I put 20 anti-Obama/anti-Hillary spammers on ignore today, make a new thread, and then have people call me a liar.

[QC]

78. It's not so much that they think you are straight,

as that they think you are a fairly transparent sockpuppet.

[Maddy McCall]

82. .

:thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

88. ...

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

102. You catch on fast!

:)

[Midlodemocrat]

35. You rock, girlfriend.

:thumbsup:

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

47. Is it really that hard to imagine

a gay person supporting Obama? Do you REALLY have to attack me personally?

[Midlodemocrat]

48. Lighten up Francis. I didn't respond to you.

[ruggerson]

50. lol

:thumbsup:

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

51. I apologize n/t

[Jamastiene]

70. ...

:spray: OMG :rofl: You fuckin' rock.

[LostinVA]

39. Mon Dieu!

You are right, my little kitty cat.

[NMMNG]

77. I don't find it curious at all

I can almost set my watch by these I'm gay but I like Obama and don't care about McClurkin so I don't see what you guys are so worked up about tyros.

[Bluebear]

83. "Gay for a day"

[Sapphocrat]

And sometimes...

"Gay for pay for a day"

[terrya]

16. And some people were and are outraged about it.

What I resent is people here telling those who are outraged to "lighten up" or "get over it".

[NMMNG]

66. Maybe we should start throwing their own shit back in their faces

You know, every time they get their panties in a bunch over something HRC does we'll just tell them to "get over" their "faux outrage". Fuck them if they can't deal with it. We've taken their shit long enough.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Are you outraged about the Clintons' DOMA and DADT?

We are still paying for that crap!

[TankLV]

27. I'm still outraged at obama for his CONTINUING to pander to BIGOTS,

and at YOU for posting the DADT & DOMA shit...

the CLINITONS continue to be the best friends the gays ever had!

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

29. How does he continue to pander to bigots?

Can you point out any examples other than the McClurkin one?

[dailykoff]

113. Basically by flattening Hilly and her fake identy politics.

Hilly is a prevaricating neocon, her backers are neocons, I suspect her gay backers are gay neocons, and that's about all there is to Hilly.

[donheld]

30. I am Gay, support Obama, but I'm very tired of seeing the Clintons blamed for DADT

Anyone who blames them forgets that if DADT compromise hadn't been worked out, the ban would be written into law over the top of what the Clintons believed or wanted.

[terrya]

80. Imagine any President...

faced with a furor in Congress, the Joint Chiefs of Staff threatening to resign enmasse, the religious right going batshit insane...just because you wanted to fulfill a campaign promise to lift the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military. No President couldn't have withstood all of that. Especially a President in the first 100 days of his Presidency.

I commend Clinton for at least trying. DADT was going to happen, no matter what.

[mondo joe]

98. "We are still paying for that crap!" ???

How have you paid?

[IndianaGreen]

99. On both counts, DOMA and DADT

and not just me!

[mondo joe]

100. Really? How are YOU paying?

[IndianaGreen]

103. Hey, if you can't figure it out, it is your problem

:eyes:

[mondo joe]

104. Please back up your claim that you are paying. Did Indiana pass same sex marriage

that is now not being recognized federally?

[kdpeters]

116. Ooops.

Brain fart. Too many windows open and thought I was reading comments on a different thread. No wonder your post seemed out of conext. It was. Pls ignore this response. Tnx.

[donheld]

23. I'm gay and proud, and still support Mr Obama

I didn't like the McClurkin/Caldwell incidents but I know Obama still supports gays and our rights. The whole thing has totally been blown out of proportion on DU.

[Beregond2]

31. McClurkin brouhaha

I am gay, and I'm not the least bit bothered by this business. Obama has shown he is a strong supporter of gay rights in every way that matters. It is absurd to condemn a candidate because of an extremely tangential association like this. And as I have said repeatedly, this hardly compares to the betrayals we suffered under Clinton 1. I have seen no evidence that Hillary isn't just as likely to throw us under the bus if it proves to be convenient for her.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

32. Glad to see others like me

I'm just looking for a reality check, since I felt like I was the only one on this message board.

[NMMNG]

36. Welcome to DU

As another poster put it, "Obama continually stresses the politics of inclusion and dialogue--being willing to accept people and engage with them even in the face of passionate and bitter disagreement. To give David Duke the boot would cut against that."

Oh, wait, that never happened. Obama flat out refuses to "reach out" to racists. He demands that racists be fired (Don Imus, John Tanner) and has stated that no racists would ever work on his staff. So why the double standard with homophobes? Why does he hand homophobes a microphone and a stage on which to spew their homophobia to a crowd of homophobes?

[theHandpuppet]

56. Oh just stop that now.

Since when did we start engaging in facts? :sarcasm:

Besides, all that reasoning just gets in the way of hope and faith!

[NMMNG]

58. I call them as they are

Obama won't "reach out" to racists but he'll "reach out" to homophobes (not that using homophobes to spew homophobia to other homophobes is "reaching out"). He's a full-out hypocrite who is no friend to LGBTs.

[theHandpuppet]

60. To me this was also quite telling...

When you have to rationalize your stance on gay marriage by invoking the name of Dick Cheney and "2,000 religious leaders" the alarm bells should be ringing in your ears:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060607-obama_statement_26/
"I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also agree with most Americans, including Vice President Cheney and over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage should be left to the states as they always have been."

[NMMNG]

63. Agreed

IOW, he's always going to kowtow to the bigots and throw us under the bus. I'm sick to death of people's "deeply held religious beliefs" being justification for the Human and Civil Rights of millions being denied. We no longer accept it as justification for slavery, racial segregation, prohibition of interracial marriage, etc. so why the hell are we allowing it for the oppression of LGBTs?

[LostinVA]

37. "Other gays" -- MON DIEU!!!!!!!!!

Le chat.

[donheld]

42. "Other gays" -- so what!

[LostinVA]

43. Other gays"implies that you yourself are gay

I know you are.I know I am. I am quite sure the OP isn't.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

44. ...

:eyes:

Last time I checked, I was not sexually attracted to females.

You can join the ignore brigade.

[theHandpuppet]

52. If you haven't put me on your ignore list already, please feel free!

After all, you weren't really looking for our opinion, anyway. And it would certainly reduce the number of questions you might have to answer yourself... and can't.

Oh... there is one last thing, since you like videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xt9KcR28Q4

Enjoy!
:-)

[LostinVA]

117. Yay!!!

[donheld]

46. How the hell can you be sure of that?

[LostinVA]

118. Because, as SOMEONE else said up thread

They are a transparent sockpuppet.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. A huge issue to me

But you see, I was raised in Pentacostal church. I have been involved with the Gospel music world via associations with performers, as well as via fundraising to battle HIV in minority communities for over 20 years. People like Donnie create the environment of fear and shame that is the reason the black community has always had the highest infection rates and still does. Fastest growing, straight black women who' men lead the DL life.
It is an issue from my life. The notion that there is any role for Caldwell or McClurkin in positive dialouge 20 years after the devastation that springs from ignorance made itself so murderously manifest in our cities and our world. They would still rather see people die than can their brand of hatred.
Still not bothered much? I am sure you are not. 20 years of death and still defenders of the bigots. Well, I guess it is mostly black folk, so who cares, right? No skin off your stick, eh?

Here's the deal for all you malinformed late to the game commenters who have not been following the action until a couple of months ago: Donnie McClurkin is a Fundy activist, a Republican who sang on national TV to Bush in 2004 at the GOP Convention. When I saw that I thought ' fuck Bush and his bigot buddies, pandering to the hate, this is why they are the enemy and we are the Democrats.' So imagine my suprise when 3 short years later our rising star invites this self same Bushie so come up and not just sing, but preach openly against gays! Sorry if I don't just dig it 'cause Obama did it. I know who this Donnie is and have for years. A member of the religious right, a conservative political activist. Same as another of the Obama Fundies, 'Rev' Kirbyjon Caldwell, a leader of the Ex-gay child abuse industry and well known as George W Bush's spiritual adviser. Caldwell says he asked Bush's permission before joining Obama's Fundy Road Show.
These people are the religious right. Anti-choice, anti- science, anti-sex ed, the whole enchilada. Oh, yeah, and virulently bigoted against gay.
If one of these mental cases had gone off for 15 minutes against choice at an Obama event, what would have happened? Or 15 minutes against Mexicans? Jews?
An issue larger than Obama, I ask you, shall we welcome into the Democratic Party the blatant use of minority groups to drive wedges and pander to 'communities' that share the hate? Shall we really? Did it work for the GOP? I mean homophobia in the black church is not the only case of culture specific prejudices. Do each of these cultures get candidates that play to those prejudices as well? If so we will have a Party in tatters.
If Obama was the Democratic Party I'd be long gone. Here is a quote from Democratic Sentorial candidate in Oregon, Steve Novick that might remind us how Democrats are supposed to sound:

"I realize that I disagree with many Oregon voters on this issue, and that taking this position just might cost me the election. But I cannot accept the state telling a loving, committed same-sex couple, “you have no right to get married.” The Declaration of Independence says that we all have the right to “the pursuit of happiness.” I believe that to be true to that principle, we need marriage equality."

That is a courageous call to unity. That is a Democrat.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

49. Thanks for your response

You are the first to give an argument that opposes my viewpoint without accusing me of being straight.

I'll definitely consider your words deeply, and get back to you if possible. I'm 22, and haven't been exposed to LGBT politics for any significant period of time.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Thanks for what it is worth

I get many people saying this is a false issue and it is for me certainly not. It is the one reason I am not sending Obama money and love notes, to be honest. I knew who Donnie was before I knew who Obama was.
Your candidate is very out of touch with gay people and speaks like a Pentacostal minister when he speaks about us at all. To be fair the last few weeks he has improved his choice of words, which is why letting up on him before the Primary is ended is out of the question. He is in training. Perhaps he'll get it right by Denver.

The younger folk, no offense, totally misconstrue the DADT and DOMA stuff from the Clinton era. To me it is not history but something we all went through.
If you feel so inclined read up on the political activist group ACT-UP that grew in response to the AIDS crisis and the Reagan administrations utter denial of that crisis. If you like plays, read 'The Normal Heart' by Larry Kramer, and 'Angels In America' by Tony Kushner, or in the case of Angels, rent the dvds of the film version. Look up names and events that you don't know in those plays. You will have much more context from those two reads alone.
Oh- and don't forget to ask the old folk like me, we've seen it all. Twice.

[theHandpuppet]

62. Thanks, Bluenorthwest

I hope some of the younger folks out here will read your testimonial and also take your advice.

:thumbsup:

[Bluenorthwest]

67. Well, when I was a boy....

Wait! I still am! No really, I was 22 in the midst of all of that ACT-UP stuff. I would have been lost without gay elders teaching me what was what politically, especiall in terms of the efforts of the older generation that allowed me to live out and proud from like 5 minutes after I figured out I was gay. A bit o' the history never hurt anyone!

I'm adding 'And the Band Played On' in book or dvd format. Book especially. Read 'em and weep.

[ldf]

89. thank you, blue...

you, very articulately, put into words what many of us feel. and it is obvious your thoughts come from living through some times that were very hard for the entire gay community.

we've come a long way, and much of that progress was due to a president who was not ashamed to be seen with us, to be seen supporting us, and to be seen loving us.

blacks have said that bill clinton was the blackest president we have yet had. the same can be said from the gay community's perspective.

dadt and doma HAVE to be looked at in context. historical perspective is everything.

i have come to realize many of the failings of bill clinton. but during his tenure, the gay community always knew we had a friend in the whitehouse.

as far as the current situation, i, too, am very uncomfortable with the pandering.

but i am going to drag my old (but still young, as you) gay ass into the booth and vote for the name with the d.

still, i can't help but feel like i've been kicked in the gut when the (apparently) best we have to offer for president plays the pander game.

i sincerely believe that americans would respect frank, even blunt, honesty much more.

i think americans are THIRSTY for the truth, and would overwhelmingly respond to honesty, and a willingness to take a stand.

if we use the simple arguments in the constitution, of liberty and equality, and shot down all the hate filled spin put out by the "moral" "family values" crowd, people would see it as what it is.

but we are too afraid to step on people's right to use the "freedom of religion" to practice baldfaced hate.

it is way past the time for "compromise" and "bipartisanship". and the last thing we need now, in response to the pendulous swing of the center to the far right, is more "centrism", which would only take us even farther to the right.

as far as it not being an important issue, i am sure that is exactly what the log cabin republicans think.

it IS important. and nothing anyone can say can make me feel it isn't.

i'm with you.

and a heartfelt WELCOME, even if belated, to "the du".

:grouphug:

[mondo joe]

101. Thank you! As a gay man I still feel Hillary is our friend. Despite DOMA and

DADT.

[NMMNG]

81. Um

I'm 22, and haven't been exposed to LGBT politics for any significant period of time.


Then why are you calling out people here, who have been exposed to LGBT politics for a significant period of time, on their positions as if you know better than them?

[theHandpuppet]

111. SNAP!!

:toast:

[terrya]

79. God, if you posted this on its own, I'd recommend it in a second.

Thank you. This is a great post.

[Bluebear]

86. Appropriated:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4651068

[Maddy McCall]

55. This thread smells like cat shit.

European cat shit.

[NMMNG]

59. Oh Maddy

You gave me the first good laugh of the day. Thank you. :hug:

[Jamastiene]

74. ...

:)

[donheld]

71. They tried some of the same crap with me

If I support Obama I can't be gay, If I support Obama I must be a log cabiner, yada yada yada. Well I'm just as gay as any of them, I fight just as hard for gay rights as they do, I'm just as much a Democrat as they are. Finally I just told the worst of them to go to hell, and put them on ignore.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

76. Yah, this thread was mostly a waste of time n/t

[Bluebear]

84. It's time to play....***GAY FOR A DAY***!!!

Who is our next contestant, Johnny?

[LostinVA]

87. OOooo -- I know

Le chat à Pittsburgh

[theHandpuppet]

90. Y'all are crackin' me up!!

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

91. I'm waiting for the first wave of "Black for a day" DUers to come out

It will be a refreshing change.

[QC]

106. "Any other Negroes not bothered much by the ___ controversy?" n/t

[NMMNG]

107. "Am I the only black person tired of all the faux outrage over XYZ?

;-)

[QC]

108. No, no, no--it has to say "colored person."

That's roughly equivalent to saying "gays," something I have only heard straight people do.

[NMMNG]

110. Sorry, even in jest I can't bring myself to say that kind of stuff

I guess that's what separates me from them, and their sockpuppets/trolls.

[dailykoff]

85. Thanks, when the circus leaves town the truth will emerge.

Hang in there. :thumbsup:

[Solon]

112. Haven't you been TS'ed yet?

C'mon, a few more "Homophobia is insignificant in this race" posts and you can get there, I believe in you! :)

[shaniqua6392]

92. I do know several that will never vote for him

because of this issue and a few others. They have all said that they will not vote for him in the GE either if he is the nominee. They will stay home on election day.

[sueragingroz]

93. I'm gay. I'm offended. /nt

[Levgreee]

94. How is letting someone attend your event pandering?

Even when you distinctly state you disagree with their view, even in front of their face? If it is pandering, it is a light level of pandering, and that is an important distinction to make.

[mondo joe]

96. Attend? "Attend your event"?

What attendance are you talking about?

McClurkin didn't ATTEND the event - he was the Master of Ceremonies.

[hulklogan]

97. It's not like McClurkin bought a ticket and sat in the 23rd row

he was HIRED to MC the event by the Obama campaign, who sent in a video message praising McClurkin as one of the Senator's favorite performers.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your genuflecting.

[Psyop Samurai]

95. Well, I'm gay, and even more amazing...

I vote in Pittsburgh!

:P

I will be happy to provide the proper credentials, of course, and I daresay, poor show on the Pegasus quiz, old chap, poor show.

:dunce:

At any rate, I think the phrasing of your question - "not bothered much" - takes us straight to a crucial aspect. It is difficult to address the McClurkin issue without seeming to minimize it. (Plus, I'm not here to engage in the kind of battles that it regularly elicits, which is why my voice is not heard.)

One day, years ago, I broke my toe in a particularly bad way and was in excruciating pain. It was quite serious. Unfortunately, later that same day, I fell and broke my jaw, the two broken halves no longer occupying the same plane. Now, after I had broken my jaw, though it would be wrong to minimize it, I can honestly say I was "not bothered much" by my toe.

So, it is a matter of context.

In a way, something like the McClurkin gaffe was inevitable, the result of long-term social ills, some of which have been deliberately and maliciously planted and perpetuated in our culture. I think those who have expressed their dismay have performed a valuable service in throwing light on an unacceptable state of affairs, and the pressure they have brought to bear will create new opportunities for understanding and have long-term benefits.

I do not, however, find viewing the election through this single and limiting frame useful. We are larger than that. We have more to offer than that. And we (as in the larger "we") are in the situation we're in largely because of pettiness and self-centeredness. The prevailing attitude in this country is, "the pie is rotten, where's my piece?". That simply doesn't work for me, and hasn't for quite some time.

I have offered these abbreviated views in as non-inflammatory a way as possible, and as respectfully as possible. Of course, most will not read this post anyway, because attention spans are short, and there are surely lots more fires to attend to since the OP.

:toast:

[Onlooker]

105. I'm not particularly bothered, but ...

... Obama's as much of an ass as Clinton, but he's doing what's necessary to get elected. I trust him not to implement regressive policies or stand in the way of progressive ones, but I certainly don't expect him to lead, and am a little worried that should there be another Republican Congress he might compromise gay rights to get something more important to him.

At any rate, he's better than McCain, and his campaign team, unlike Hillary's, is superb. if Hillary is the nominee, she'll lose. Obama has a good chance of winning.

What I can't stand, by the way, about DU is the need of Obama supporters to glorify him. He really doesn't deserve that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. Know What The Most Embarrassing Thing Is For You Here?

Not the thread itself, and how completely ridiculous it is. Nope. Not that. What is so embarrassing for you is that you actually think for a second that you have what it takes to pull the wool over the eyes of so many DU'ers. That you have the arrogance to think people don't know. That you actually think for a second that you and your intentions aren't completely transparent.

We're not stupid here ya know, and ya ain't fooling anybody. I want to say that in case you are foolish enough for a second to think that you are.

We weren't born yesterday, ya know.

How embarrassing for you that you sit there thinking the members here buy into the crap you're selling.

[aaroh]

114. larry sinclair

[boppers]

115. Demonize the ignorant!

Mock them!
Scorn them!
Get angry with those who associate with them!

It works quite well if your goal is to fight.

It works less well if your goal is to win.

I'd rather win than fight.