Those DUers NOT voting for Kerry in November, please respond

[Paragon]

Can you justify your existence on this board for me, please? Thank you.

[MAlibdem]

1. well, i certainly do support kerry

but having some mild, constructive criticism from the left probably isn't a bad thing, keep him honest.

[Paragon]

2. I did plenty of criticism of Kerry during the primaries

My guy lost. Now all my criticism is aimed at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

[wryter2000]

3. Me, too, Paragon

However, I don't think it's out of line to give constructive criticism. Especially of the type, "I wish Kerry would go after Bush* on X, instead of Y, as he appears to be doing."

[Q3JR4]

4. No.

I will not justify my existence on this board.

That statement to me is like the Bushites telling those of us who did not support the war to justify our patriotic sensibilities.

Underneath it all you can be an American, but you don't have to support the leader of America. Why does anybody think it would be any different elsewhere?

[Paragon]

5. I assume you'll vote for Democrats in state & local elections...

If not, it's time to find another board.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Some Democrats are anti-choice and homophobic

ABB extends only to the Presidential, not the local level.

If Zell Miller were running again, would you be demanding that Georgia DUers be voting for that piece of dead meat?

[Paragon]

7. Answer the question.

You're not voting for ANY Democrats -- why are you here?

[IndianaGreen]

13. You are here. Are you voting?

Too many self-described liberals have been infected with a Torquemada complex. I hope you are not one of those.

[Paragon]

14. Of course I vote.

And too many self-described liberals have been infected with a purity complex.

[IndianaGreen]

17. The term "purity" is used by people that demand purity

We are already voting for a prowar, pro-Patriot, pro-NAFTA, pro-Occupation presumptive nominee, and we are being told that our views will be ignored when the Democratic platform is written, and yet we are the ones being accused of demanding purity.

Nonsense!

[Paragon]

18. Ridiculous.

If you actually think Kerry would cast those votes again in the same way after all that's happened, you're deluded.

[MSchreader]

33. If you think he wouldn't

You're naive.

Martin

[WillyBrandt]

8. Obviously, if he caucases as a Democrat

And gives us the Senate Majority.

It's prety fucking obvious. I'll do something crappy if it means the Right is defeated and progressive change is possible. If it means voting for a turncoat fink, then I'll find a clothespin.

It's obvious!

[Hippo_Tron]

47. Agreed, Senate majority is HUGE

RW judicial nominees can be held up in committee.

30. Are you now

or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

:evilgrin:

(just kidding)

[greatauntoftriplets]

9. Do those of us who have to vote for him with a clothespin and a bucket

also have to justify our existence?

Please, not another demand for a loyalty oath.

On edit; I have not even cast my primary vote yet.

[waldenx]

10. who the fuck do you think you are?

seriously.

[Paragon]

12. God.

Worship me.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paragon]

42. Thou shalt not declare someone alerted in a thread

Thy post shalt be deleted soon - it's against the rules.

[Padraig18]

43. I suspect the whole thread will be locked soon, frankly. n/t

[Paragon]

44. Fine by me.

I think my point's been made.

[Padraig18]

49. Are you sure it's the one you intended to make, though? n/t

[NightNurse]

11. ANOTHER Wooden Stake and Hammer,Please?

:spank: :boring: :spank:

[liberalnurse]

15. I 'm here to torment Paragon's dreams.

I justify my existence on this board simply because I survived the GD2004. Who is kerry anyways?

[Padraig18]

16. Ve must be GUT little Democrats!

Did it ever occur to you that they might be progressives, Paragon? :wtf:

[Paragon]

19. Stakes is high, Padraig

Do you really think we can afford the luxury of purity votes again? I'm not suggesting they can't have their views - I am questioning whether DU is the place for them to whine.

[Padraig18]

20. What you consider 'whining'...

... others may see as legitimate criticism. Skinner has made it clear that criticism of the nominee will continue to be permissible, just not 'partisan attacks'.

[Paragon]

22. If they're not voting for our nominee...

...by definition, anything out of their mouth is a "partisan attack", wouldn't you say?

I don't mind DUers who have to "hold their nose" to vote for Kerry - they may criticize all they wish. Those who are NOT voting for him have already chosen their side.

[Padraig18]

25. What about our Congressional candidates, governors, etc.?

What if they're going to support them? Sorry, I'm no fan of purges...

[Paragon]

26. see my post #5 and its responses

Should give you an idea where some DUers' heads are at. So again...if they're not a lurking freeper and have no intention of voting Democratic at all - why are they here?

[Padraig18]

27. That's ONE person, Paragon.

:shrug:

[Paragon]

28. But not the only DUer who feels that way, obviously.

And certainly not the only progressive.

[Padraig18]

31. So? Let the Mods deal with them if they break a rule.

Otherwise, they're welcome here...

[Paragon]

35. That's the whole point of this thread

Just suggesting where we should draw the line. We don't allow freepers on this board, but flagrant non-Democrats are somehow OK? We don't get their votes just because they're on the left, too.

[Padraig18]

37. The rules state clearly that...

progressives are welcome here, NOT just Democrats. Why is this such a bug up your ass, Paragon?

[Paragon]

39. Oh, I don't know...

Could be because the next President will appoint as many as THREE judges to the Supreme Court, not to mention whatever other evil shit the neocons have planned.

This isn't just any election. Like I said, stakes is high.

[Padraig18]

41. If they're progressives, they're welcome here.

If they don't break the rules, they can post. Bottom line. Deal with it.

40. what I was thinking about loyalty oaths

Anyone who answers your initial question by saying they were not going to vote for Kerry would fall into a trap.
I don't understand the point of setting up traps like this.
Is it really that dangerous if someone who is not going to vote for Kerry has escaped revelation? Are they like some evil communist virus that if not brought into the light of day will inevitably corrupt the pure paragons of our virtue?
Can you enlighten me on this?

[NightTrain]

21. I plan to vote for Kerry...

...but that doesn't mean I think the man is beyond scrutiny.

People who've worked closely with John Kerry have said that if he is surrounded only by corporate lobbyists, he'll bend to their will. But if the grass-roots people keep after Kerry and hold his feet to the fire, he almost always will do the right thing. So it seems to me, we need to get John Kerry elected in November, and then stay on his ass about the issues that matter to us.

Remember, JFK was initially cautious on civil rights and only came out in favor of them because Martin Luther King pestered him mercilessly. Dr. King believed that Kennedy would do right by African-Americans, but only if someone could persuade the president to do so. King was right, of course! :)

[Paragon]

23. Read the headline of this thread again.

Someone who definitely is NOT voting for Kerry loses their "scrutiny" privileges. If you're voting Kerry, fine -- I never said I had a problem with it.

24. I'm voting for Kerry on a Secret Ballot

One good thing about our system of government in the United States is the secret ballot, so even if you knew who I was for certain, you wouldn't know how I really voted.

See this yesterday? Looks like you might have missed it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=459246

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

29. I have a good reason though....

Im only fourteen.... :(

[For PaisAn]

34. Who I vote for is not really your business and

I won't justify my existence on this board for you.

[Ricdude]

36. What If...

...we're not yet certain that we're willing to vote for Kerry (clothespin and bucket optional)? Can we still hang out?

What if we want to see an even more (i.e. actually a) progressive platform than Kerry's offered?

What if we want to see instant runoff voting, so we could vote Nader (or Green, or even Libertarian) as our first choice, while reserving a second place position for the Democrat, thus making clear the difference between "what we want" and "what we're willing to suffer with"?

I'm all over ABB (even more so than in 2000, the supreme court is too fragile to risk), but for me, Kerry was 2nd from the bottom on my list. Had the democrats chosen Lieberman, I definitely wouldn't have voted the Democratic candidate in this presidential election. With Kerry, I'm still on the fence. A lot of how I vote may very well depend on how securely Blue my state is come the election...

[last1standing]

38. Good Idea, Paragon

The last thing we want is a bunch of progressives on this board who could help turn bush* out of office. Let's insult them and make sure they think there is no difference between Dems and reps.

[Paragon]

45. OK. by the same token...

There aren't people out there who voted Republican last time that might just vote Democratic this time around? Guess they'll never enjoy our wisdom here, either.

This is a private board for Democrats -- if someone is willing to go out on the limb of saying they'll NEVER vote Democratic, they're disrupting. My humble opinion.

46. That's why this thread seems silly to me

You're basically asking someone to openly say "I disagree with the rules I agreed to when I registered." Maybe disruptors can be stupid, but that stupid?

[Paragon]

48. Again, that's my point.

The definition of "progressive" and/or "Democrat" has got pretty lax in GD 2004. It's either a Kerry bash fest, or pining for Democratic candidates who have long since fallen by the wayside.

Time to move on.

51. Did you really miss my point?

sounds like it to me.
Oh well.

Hey look what I found here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

"We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

Democratic Underground would not be possible without the participation of like-minded individuals from across the country and, indeed, from around the world. The content for the site is provided by people who feel that their views are not represented by the conservative "mainstream" media in the U.S. We accept article submissions from those on the left who wish to write, so that DU represents a variety of progressive viewpoints. We have a particular appreciation for satire and humor.

[Padraig18]

50. You might want to read this, paragon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x15303

[Moderator]

52. Locking.....

From the rules:

WHO IS WELCOME ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, AND WHO IS NOT

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals.

This is a "big tent" message board. We welcome a wide range of progressive opinion. You will likely encounter many points of view here that you disagree with.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

If you have been banned from Democratic Underground, you are not permitted to log on again using a different username. Previously banned members will be immediately banned, regardless of behavior.

People who repeatedly and willfully break the rules, or who generally engage in rude, antisocial behavior, will be banned. It doesn't matter if you are a progressive or a long-term member of this board.

---------------------------


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DU Moderator