to win in november obama has to step back

[BenDavid]

How we get out of this mess...

I say the only way out of this mess is for Obama to take a step back.
Maybe he can be VP, but probably not, but we can't win in November
if we're divided and we can't win without Obama's people - so what's left?

If we go any other way, we're in for a third Bush term with McCain.

Worse, Obama could get the blame for that - ruining his chances for the future.
One thing's for sure - Hillary's not backing down and she won't settle for VP.
Her strongest suit - unlike Gore and Kerry - is she's a fighter who won't surrender.
That's why we like her - she's not going to quit fighting like Gore and Kerry did.
She's intensely and single-mindedly got her eyes set on the White House this year.

I can hear you asking - "Why does Obama have to step back?"
Because he's young and he's got a future. Hillary's future is now.
Besides, Obama could use 8 years in the White House to get prepared.

I see no other option and if you think about it, you might agree with me.
Besides asking for four more Bush years, what other option do we have?

I'd like to read your opinions, but only if you can write like an adult.
If your answer is "Screw you," that means you're 9 years old like Bush.
But if you have something intelligent to say about this - let me hear from you.

Understand - we, you and I as Democrats, have a serious problem.
We're either going to win this year or we're not.

You can say, "If I can't have Obama, I'd rather have 4 more years of Bush,"
but that would only be proof of your insanity so why go there?

We have to do something because she's going for broke.
Personally, I think Obama is to blame for causing this rift because it's
been assumed for years that Hillary would make her run in '08, but Obama
got froggy and decided to attack the two most popular people in our party
and that's what created the rift that could give us four more years of Bush.

Somebody has to step back.
If they don't, this could be the last presidential run for BOTH of them
Is this Obama's only shot? Or does he have a future in politics?

I say we bench our first round draft pick
and let our all star have her final shot.

Thanks to Bart for the above and making sense.....

[OzarkDem]

1. Obama's ego is too big

How did he react when he lost other races? Just wondering.

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. Huge ego! Major entitlement problem. He has it all. And he won't back down.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. No, he won't back down.

Gonna stand his ground. Wont be turned around.

And He'll keep this world from draggin him down-

Gonna stand his ground.

And he wont back down.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. LOL! Sounds stubborn too me. But hey go for it. No matter the cost!

It is all about Barack "I am in this for myself" Obama. Whatever trips his trigger. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Oh, bull shitty-shit-shit. Half the friggin outrage from camp Clinton is that this upstart had the

temerity to interfere with Hillary's pre-ordained coronation.

It is a PRIMARY. That means people RUN. That doesn't mean that YOUR candidate is ENTITLED to win or ENTITLED to anyone's support or ENTITLED to DEMAND that the other guy else drop out when she starts to lose because, god dammit, it's her TURN.

That's bullshit. Obama is running a campaign, and so is Hillary. It is the height of massive fucking egotism to imagine that since he won't just go away and let her have a nomination she hasn't managed to put away, he is only "in it for himself". It is a political RACE, not a pre-ordained fucking anointment. Who the fuck is Hillary in it for?

Give me a break.

[cali]

33. Well said

The OP is a stinking pile of.... entititlement, and Hillwhiners won't accept that she has to win it. It's not going to be handed to Her Entitledness on a silver platter.

[OzarkDem]

44. No, we don't like candidates owned by corporations

We'd like a change in the WH, not the SOS that we have today.

Obama is status quo - all corporate control. We need to reject that.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Who is "we"? The Hillary campaign?

Hillary- from the board of Directors of Wal-Mart- is now the anti-corporate candidate?

Look, neither of them are spotless from the POV of standing up to Corporations. Last time I checked, JRE was not in the race anymore. If he was, I might have voted for him.

On straight up policy proposals, Hillary and Obama are pretty similar. Where I think Obama is preferable is in that he has the potential to be an inspirational force for REAL change, not "change" as in "taking us through the wayback machine to 1996". We need to start the 21st century, not relive the fights of the last decades of the 20th.

We need to turn the page.

[pampango]

35. That's pretty funny. They seem a lot a like to me. As the OP stated,

"One thing's for sure - Hillary's not backing down and she won't settle for VP."

"She's intensely and single-mindedly got her eyes set on the White House this year. "

At least, in your opinion it seems, Hillary is not too stubborn or selfish. You did not happen to mention that she would step aside for the good of the party in November. Perhaps if she voiced that willingness, Obama would follow her example.

At least for Hillary, it is not "all about" herself. Kind of sounds like she's in this for herself from the way you describe her.

[miceelf]

50. Huh?

The OP said that a VP slot is simply unacceptable to CLINTON, but if Obama won't take it, HE'S the one being stubborn????

[Hieronymus]

9. Who ever became president that didn't have an ego?

[Hutzpa]

11. Why not Hillary step back,

why should Obama step back, what possible reason do you have, oh
I get it.....she is leading in States wins and delegates, ofcoures
he should, *tap my head* silly me, why do I even bother...:rofl:

[UndertheOcean]

2. She voted for the war ,

He didn't , its as simple as that , actions have consequences , and this is an Election , not a coronation. The presidency is not a birth right

[rodeodance]

13. What an idiotic stupid thing to say: OBAMA did NOT vote!-but he DID vote to fund the war!!

She voted for the war ,

He didn't , its as simple as that , actions have consequences , and this is an Election , not a coronation. The presidency is not a birth right

[question everything]

16. Yes, actions have consequences and Obama did not have to bear any of them

It was the US Senate vote that had consequences, not what a state senator from Illinois had the luxury to say.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Too bad. There is a benefit to running someone who doesn't have to explain that IWR vote.

Whether or not he was in the Senate at the time is immaterial. He didn't vote for the turd. Neither did a solid core of Senators (many of whom I think should be on the short list of choices for an Obama ticket) ---

* Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
* Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
* Barbara Boxer (D-California)
* Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
* Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
* Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
* Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
* Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
* Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
* Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
* Bob Graham (D-Florida)
* Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
* Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
* Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
* Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
* Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
* Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
* Patty Murray (D-Washington)
* Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
* Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
* Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
* The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
* Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Gee, whiz, what kind of "luxury" did they enjoy, where they weren't forced to vote for that shitty war, either?

[rodeodance]

25. and Obama MILKED that NON-existant vote all along!!

[Dogmudgeon]

26. All of them -- every one -- were "safe"

Nary a red state amongst 'em.

Whatever other reasons they had, the safety of their positions allowed them to make that choice.

And NY wasn't a "safe" state for voting against the war. That's where the attacks were centered, and in 2002, people still believed the lies Bush was telling.

On the other hand, why did Obama keep voting to fund the war?

--p!

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Well, I want a politician who will do what is right, not what is politically "safe".

People believed the lies Bush was telling in 2002? About Iraq and 9/11? Aside from FOX NEWS land (where they still think Iraq did it) what planet are these "people" on?

Gee, whiz, somehow out here in the sticks of California I knew that Iraq didn't have jack diddly shit to do with Sept. 11. When I first heard people murmuring about how Bush was going to invade Iraq in mid 2002, my response was "he can't do that- Iraq didn't have anything to do with it"

Are you telling me that the majority of the populace of New York wasn't able to figure it out, but I was? Weird. I'm sure lots of New Yorkers aren't going to like hearing that Michigan and West Virginia are stronger bastions of well-informed progressivism than they are.

And it's funny, because I remember the information being out there and READILY available in the media for people who were paying attention.

See, it seems like you're splitting hairs, just like Hillary has been splitting hairs on this. "No one knew". "we didn't have a choice". "We didn't think he'd really do it". :eyes:

Look, you can spin it any way you want- but the BOTTOM LINE is, some of our senators (and one of theirs, Chafee) had COURAGE and VOTED against a BAD WAR. I don't care what Hillary didn't, and I'd wager it's at the top of the list of problems that many loyal Democrats, such as myself- people who like and respect Hillary, who have been big fans for years- have with Hillary as a Presidential Candidate. As is her inability or unwillingness to come right out and say "It was a mistake".

And whether or not it was or wasn't a "safe" vote for HRC, either way your implication is that she didn't do it because she believed in it, but rather because of political calculation- and much of what she has done in the last 7 years has smelled like political calculation.

Maybe you can't grasp why that doesn't strike lots of us as terribly inspiring. Look, if she does win the nomination (demanding that the other guy drop out because she can't beat him, though, isn't a real strong argument for her candidacy) I will support her- but If so I am certain that before November, she will have to explain her vote for the IWR, and if she wants to avoid running against all the same 2004 plays on that subject the GOP ran against Kerry, she's going to have to do a better job.

[Dogmudgeon]

32. Inspiring?

We don't need "inspiring". We need "effective".

Look, your invocations about courage and being right are all well and good, but this is politicking. If you are looking for courage, explain why Obama has voted for every war appropriation and expansion bill that has come across his desk. Did the war in Iraq suddenly become a good thing when Barack Obama was sworn in to the Senate?

Hillary may indeed have to explain her vote, again and again and again. Then, against McCain, she'll have to explain why she isn't MORE of a hawk. That's politics. But if you want to end war, you can't claim conscience and play politics.

Well, you can, but it looks a lot like hypocrisy in a short time -- for Hillary and Obama alike.

--p!

[WonderGrunion]

30. Re-read that list

North Dakota was not a blue state.

[XemaSab]

43. Not so fast:

* Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
* Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
* Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
* Bob Graham (D-Florida)

No red states? :shrug:

[Celebration]

54. safety?

So, due to her vote, millions of people died and we are up to our eyeballs in debt, because she wasn't in a "safe" state? Is that really the kind of leader that you want?

[Iceburg]

37. The both voted on the renewal of the Patriot Act. Obama For/ Hillary Against/nt

[JVS]

3. In order to win in November, Obama must crush Clinton in the remaining elections

Only by doing that can he demonstrate unified support from the party.

[boston bean]

46. He will never ever win the GE in 2008. nt

[grantcart]

4. It sounds like something Bart Simpson would have a hand in

[AX10]

5. k/r To win in November

How we get out of this mess...

I say the only way out of this mess is for Obama to take a step back.
Maybe he can be VP, but probably not, but we can't win in November
if we're divided and we can't win without Obama's people - so what's left?

If we go any other way, we're in for a third Bush term with McCain.

Worse, Obama could get the blame for that - ruining his chances for the future.
One thing's for sure - Hillary's not backing down and she won't settle for VP.
Her strongest suit - unlike Gore and Kerry - is she's a fighter who won't surrender.
That's why we like her - she's not going to quit fighting like Gore and Kerry did.
She's intensely and single-mindedly got her eyes set on the White House this year.

I can hear you asking - "Why does Obama have to step back?"
Because he's young and he's got a future. Hillary's future is now.
Besides, Obama could use 8 years in the White House to get prepared.

I see no other option and if you think about it, you might agree with me.
Besides asking for four more Bush years, what other option do we have?

I'd like to read your opinions, but only if you can write like an adult.
If your answer is "Screw you," that means you're 9 years old like Bush.
But if you have something intelligent to say about this - let me hear from you.

Understand - we, you and I as Democrats, have a serious problem.
We're either going to win this year or we're not.

You can say, "If I can't have Obama, I'd rather have 4 more years of Bush,"
but that would only be proof of your insanity so why go there?

We have to do something because she's going for broke.
Personally, I think Obama is to blame for causing this rift because it's
been assumed for years that Hillary would make her run in '08, but Obama
got froggy and decided to attack the two most popular people in our party
and that's what created the rift that could give us four more years of Bush.

Somebody has to step back.
If they don't, this could be the last presidential run for BOTH of them
Is this Obama's only shot? Or does he have a future in politics?

I say we bench our first round draft pick
and let our all star have her final shot.

Thanks to Bart for the above and making sense.....

[Mojorabbit]

6. I am curious why you think

he will lose. He is pulling in a lot of republicans and indys and doing well within the party. He still is polling as beatig McCain. I don't care which one of them wins but from what I am reading he seems to have the advantage.

[Hieronymus]

8. Polls show that Hillary can tie McCain, while Obama can beat him ..

by several points.

[rodeodance]

14. I do not place much credibility in SWOONing people voting in pools!

[jackson_dem]

23. Those same polls showed Dukakis up by 17, Bush 00' up by 11, Kerry up by 8

Dukakis lost by 7, Bush lost by half a million, Kerry lost by 3 points (3 million raw votes). Obama is like those three, the "new" face.

[WillyT]

10. Ummmmmmmmmmm..... NO !!!

:evilfrown:

[rodeodance]

12. Obama is out there Swooming them. Seems to bring em on!

[question everything]

15. These really are weak arguments

I support Clinton but will vote for Obama if he is the nominee.

Yes, I worry about the excitement that he generates without much substance to support it. I am not even sure whether all the masses that are voting for him now will be there in November. I worry about the kid gloves treatment that keeps any debate about him - except on DU, but that will be ugly once Karl Rove and the swifters have their chance.

But to claim that this is Clinton's turn while Obama is young should not enter the debate.

Voters have a right to select the ones they want to. Do you really think that McCain is in because this is his last chance?

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Last time I checked, Obama was pulling into the lead.

It's not Hillary's "turn", it's not anyone's "turn". You don't pick a nominee based on whose "turn" it is.

You want to talk about entitlement issues? I'm sorry, but as much as I like Hillary, 90% of her campaign this past 12 months has been tautological gibberish about how she's the front runner because she's the front runner so she needs to be the front runner.

We have a process, not a coronation. Obviously a lot of people in this party, for some really weird reason, :shrug: DON'T want her as the nominee.

(Certainly not while she steadfastly refuses to do anything beyond split semantic hairs on her vote for the IWR, for instance)

I liked John Kerry. I liked Al Gore (a LOT. Frankly, I would have preferred him this year over anyone else) but the fact is, it's been a while since we've had a candidate who is inspiring. Obama is INSPIRING. The more people see of him, the better he does.

Again, I like Hillary, I respect Hillary... but I am convinced the shortest route to a John McCain presidency is to run her against him in November.

And I think even your most devoted Hillary partisans would be hard pressed to call her a terribly inspiring candidate. Certainly not on the stump.

Oh, and I'll vote for our nominee, absolutely, whether it's Hillary or Obama- as far as I'm concerned, the idiots who say they would refuse to vote for Hillary in November can fuck themselves, AS CAN the idiots who say they would refuse to vote for Obama.

But serious Hillary people who've been backing her this whole time and are scratching their heads about "how did this happen" should consider that a lot of us haven't appreciated being ordered to support her all this time- before we have a nominee- and there's been a lot of that attitude coming from camp HRC. No one is entitled to our support, it has to be earned.

I see a lot of good reasons to support Obama. I see no good reasons for him to drop out, certainly not just because some party pooh-bahs may have decided it's Hillary's 'turn'.

[mindfulNJ]

51. well said!!!

I was going to type my own reply but now I don't have to...thanks!:hi:

[Orangepeel]

18. So one candidate should step aside for the good of the country because the other won't?

I don't buy that premise. But if I did, I think I'd try to go all Solomon-like and support the candidate who doesn't wnat to cut the baby in half.

[David Zephyr]

21. You are posting here that a black man should "step back"? Where to? The back of the bus?

He doesn't need to "step back".

You need him to "step back".

But he won't "step back".

Not even to satisfy your need to see him "step back".

Step back?! Jeez!

[fishwax]

22. i don't find "it's her turn" a convincing argument

I think either can beat McCain in November, and I think the next few weeks will help clear up the picture as to which one of them will get the chance.

[WonderGrunion]

29. I thought Hillary was a fighter

If she is, she needs to step up and win this thing. Obama stepping down doesn't help anybody, not Hillary, not the democratic party, and not the country. Hillary supporters need to seriously re-evaluate this whole idea that she's the only candidate that can win the general election. You can't win any general election without first winning the nomination of your party. Until she does that, she hasn't proven to me or many other democratic voters that she can beat McCain.

[my3boyz]

31. Please....

Hillary is not owed the presidency. Just because Hillary methodically planned to run in '08 no one else should run? Please. If she wants it that bad then she should fight til the end for it. I think it has been shown that Obama is not going to give up. He fought for this when he was Up in the polls and he continued to fight despite idiots like Tweety saying he had no chance. They wrote him off and he still kept charging forward. It would be ironic if he won the nomination with McCain because the media did the exact same thing to him. They did the same thing to John Kerry last year. As Obama always saying, "Don't tell me what I can't do because then I will do it!" (or something to that effect...)

[lojasmo]

34. Full of shit.

It is not Clinton's 'turn' at president.

This is a GODDAMNED PRIMARY season. The winner should get the nomination.

Fuck, bart! Get it through your thick head.

[dkf]

36. Yeah she can't win the normal way so Obama should step back when he is winning?

That is FUNNY!

Gosh, you really think he is a pushover don't you? You think he'll say "yeah I'm ahead, but Hillary its your turn so you just go on"

Puhleeze.

[Horse with no Name]

38. I think one of the biggest turnoffs of Obama

was when Hillary said her supporters would support the nominee...and he said he didn't know if his would support Hillary.
I think that was the most outwardly divisive moment of this contentious primary and spoke volumes about Obama.

[MagsDem]

42. That's the heart of Obama

Everything is does is the antithesis of what he claims to be. That is why I will sit out the GE rather than vote for him. For the first time in 30 yrs I will not go along to get along with my party.

NOT VOTING OBAMA IN ANY ELECTION EVER.

[NorthernSpy]

53. the point was that a significant percentage of his support is from independents...

There really isn't any indication that those independents will support Hillary in the general. That's just a statement of fact.

[MrSlayer]

39. It's quite the opposite. I've always viewed Hillary as the sure loss.

Hillary is hated, outright hated, by all Republicans and a fair portion of Democrats. Obama isn't really hated by anyone except the most ardent Hillary supporters and the hate groups. Even some Republicans like him. Republicans will come out to vote against Senator Clinton in droves. We're talking thousands and thousands of disenchanted Republicans who aren't happy with McCain, that would otherwise stay home, instead coming out to vote against their most hated enemy. And the opposite will happen on our side. Some will even cross over. I know it's the oldest argument against her candidacy but I still believe there is truth in it. I think Obama gets the crossovers and Independents if he's the nominee. He doesn't have the long record and the many years in D.C. that McCain or Clinton do but I think that's something that appeals to people. They're tired of the same old shit. Obama's something different, he's still young, he has charisma, he gives inspiring speeches. And in our dumbed down, American Idol society that's enough to win. There is no doubt he's a very smart, capable person and there is no doubt he cannot possibly be worse than Bush. People are going to be thinking "Why not give the guy a shot?" And I'm starting to think they may do just that. I was positive we were doomed after Edwards dropped out but now I'm not so sure.

And this is not to denigrate Senator Clinton in any way. She would be at least an OK President and she's certainly qualified for the position, I just don't believe she can win the general.

I'm still not sure which way I'm going to vote in April. It's strange saying that. Usually our votes in PA are meaningless. This time we might be the deciding vote.

[cali]

40. Talk about massive disconnect

"You can say, "If I can't have Obama, I'd rather have 4 more years of Bush,"
but that would only be proof of your insanity so why go there".

YOU and a slew of other Hill supporters are the ones starting thread after thread saying YOU won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee.

Hillary is not owed the nomination. If she wins it, fine; I'll vote for her, but to suggest that Obama should step out of her way is nonsense. She is not owed the nomination. She has to fight for it just like any candidate. He's doing well. Why should he drop out? And most indicators demonstrate clearly that Obama can indeed win. You wish that not to so out of petty jealously andd partisanship, but sorry, that's not what the information out there shows.

Hill has to fight. She is entititled to NOTHING but the chance to win the nomination.

[Inuca]

49. Oh, but she is owned the nomination because

she is older than Obama! Wasn't this the OP's main argument? Makes so much sense.... Also, she can fight, never mind that 1. certain ways of "fighting" may lead to apparent wins that are actually losses, because they taint the very reasons you were fighting for (I hope this makes some sense :-)...); and 2. her wondrous fighting skills do not seem to be that effective so far in the primaries.

[Freetospeak]

41. She voted for the war! HRC = McCain, this will make it way harder for her to win

[stevenleser]

45. LOL - You're winning so please quit!

That's one of the funniest OPs in GD-P I have ever seen!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

47. Bill Clinton was 46 years old when he ran for President...

the same age as Barack Obama is now. Yet no one told Clinton that he was "too young" or that he should "step back".

[dkf]

48. Hmm. So you think Hillary will go nuclear and blow up the party and therefore

Obama needs to step down hmm?

Hillary is playing chicken with the party. Great.

[Yael]

52. "Hillary's future is now."

Entitled to it? Her turn?

That isn't the way democracy works.

For the first time in a long time, people's voices are being heard. Why do you want to stop that unless this isn't about Democracy and all about a coronation?

Brace yourself friend -- there are 5 contests coming up that may now go her way.