Why has Obama never explained his about face on Iraq war votes?

[MagsDem]

I've watched Obama dozens of time bash Hillary because she voted for the IWR when he wasn't yet elected and did not have to vote. And he definitely does not appear to want voters to know he voted against his own party when they were trying to defund the war, and introduce a timetable for withdrawal.

A challenge for Obama supporters:

1. When has Obama ever been asked to explain why he suddenly did an about face on his campaign promise to stand with dems to repeal the patriot act? If you can find an instance, what was his excuse?

2. When has Obama ever been asked to explain, if he was "always" been against the war as he now claims, he voted against his own party's attempts to defund the war, and against timetables for withdrawal, then suddenly took the opposite position once he decided to run as the anti-war candidate. What changed all the sudden that would account for his flip flop on this? I have never seen the media ask him this, nor have I ever heard him explain it.

Any Obama supporters even care? LOL! I mean you hate Hillary because she voted for the IWR, but you don't care that your candidate was right with her from the day he entered the senate until the day he decided to run for president?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. hasn't been asked to

[MagsDem]

3. Exactly

It's what I would call an inconvenient truth about Obama.

[JKaiser]

2. great point! Obama people what do you say about this one>

[MagsDem]

5. I think some Dem should ask this question every day

.... a diary on Kos might be useful as well.

Edited for the pedantic people who can only make arguments about spelling so as to avoid discussing substance.

[Kittycat]

8. As I've stated 100 times... Absent of any plan - do you let the troops go without

much needed armour, food, supplies? No.

But Obama, just as MANY of us, and many other senators agree - HRCs vote was nothing more than authorizing a blank check for Bush. And rather than taking ownership and stating outright she was wrong, she deflects.

And how do you explain her position on clusterbombs, Iran, etc???

[MagsDem]

50. I thought you were insisting he had been asked and addressed....

these questions. If so, why can't you point to a single instance of him doing so?

[Faygo Kid]

30. I'm all for dairy. Maybe a cookies n cream sundae before bed tonight.

No, you didn't make up your mind until recently on Obama. Much.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

67. I would say to you: "WHY DO YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE:"?

Its the old wife beater tactic/question.

[Kittycat]

4. Tonight is recycling arguements night.

[MagsDem]

6. I haven't seen this on DU and I read every day

Can you point to where it has been discussed before?

[Kittycat]

10. Sure - watch for an edit to this post... i'll dig them up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4394971

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4540264

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4538171

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4545034
The one above was your own thread, that you reposted since it died, instead of bumping it. - LAME

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4497180

Those are just a small selection of posts dating back to the 9th or 10th, where the topic was discussed. If you go back a week, you'll find many, many more. It's a recycled debate.

[MagsDem]

31. Great -- I would love to see some quotes from Obama that explain

his complete about face on that. Can't wait. :)

[MagsDem]

41. Which one of those contain quotes by Obama explaining...

his flip flop? None. Which is my point. The media don't ask him, his supporters don't ask him, he pretends those votes don't exist. Again, I will ask, where has Obama been asked those questions, and what was his response?

As for my thread that you accuse me of reposting, duh -- you posted a link to THIS thread there. And they say Obama supporters are so smart. LOL!

[MagsDem]

44. I'm still waiting

Any Obama supporter actually have an example of an instance where he has been asked about this about face, and a quote of his response?

[MagsDem]

47. It's a recycled debate that Obama has never addressed...

... and his supporters avoid like the plague. Your links prove it. And by the way, I'm still waiting.

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[ossman]

Yeah! Dont vote Obama cause he's as bad as Hillary?

So your candidate is always wrong, and Obama was wrong like her once and somehow shes better?



Pathetic. She didnt even read the NIE before voting for the war. Even though she says she had top-level advice and information. Oops.

[Kittycat]

38. She can't even run her campaign... And we're supposed to turn the keys to the country over to her?

She relies on her "competent staff". The same staff that was too afraid to tell her they were broke. The same staff that told her that most of the states don't matter. The same staff that never bothered building a good grass roots support base. Need I go on?...

[MagsDem]

49. So I take it you have never heard him asked or explain....

... his about face on his Iraq war votes either. Thanks for making that clear, but next time, could you maybe try to actually respond to the topic of the thread?

[Kittycat]

51. Hey, nag much creepy one?

How about you do some freaking research on your own? Yes, he's explained it. So go hop on the tubes, and stop recycling garbage. The fact remains, HRC is the warmonger that couldn't bother or care to read the NIE... If she's incapable of doing something vital - something that could risk our troops lives..> Then maybe she isn't fit to lead!

I happen to agree that ABSENT of any plan, that we need to make sure our troops are protected, at a minimum. Keep in mind though - SHE is the one that helped put them there, NOT Obama!

And here... READ: http://origin.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf
And don't let one of those clusterbombs she also voted for, blow up on you - oh wait, they'll only kill innocent iraqi children, and what do they matter?. I can't believe people can actually with any amount of conscious support her over Obama. She's nothing but a DLC hack.

[MagsDem]

54. You claimed he had, and said you'd be right back with the proof

What happened? Don't give me his frigging web site. He certainly does NOT address those issues there. And don't pretend if I only researched it I would find it, because IT DOES NOT EXIST. He has built his entire campaign on hiding that fact, with the complicity of the media.

And strange how you would call her a DLC hack when HE is the one courting rethugs, not her. She is promising to fight against them, as she has always done, while he is promising to get in bed with them if he can win that way. Empty suit sell out that is beyond dishonest.

Now can you run off and prove the statement you made? I kind of doubt it, but I am getting tired of waiting. I think it proves you can't back up your claim.

[Kittycat]

55. Go cry in your corn flakes

You're arguing a recycled argument for the umpteenth time on DU. There's no reason to give you anything, use search, and find it for your own lazy self.

The point is, you support a warmonger. Plain and simple.

[MagsDem]

58. Research will not uncover something that doesn't exist

You're right that the question has been asked umpteen times, but the facts are Obama supporters consistently avoid, lie, change the subject, bullshit like you are doing here, then lie some more.

And THAT is the point of this thread. And believe me, it won't be the last time I point it out.

There is not a single solitary piece of evidence that would support your contention that Clinton is a "war monger." If anything she is less supportive of military intervention than Obama, as evidenced by his own words.

The point here is that he is a political calculator -- changing every way the wind blows, depending on how well he thinks it can advance his career at the moment. Same can be said for lots of politicians -- none that I would declare undying love for -- but not unusual.

The problem with him is his consistent, deliberate attempts to mislead people about his voting record on the subject. It is a history of flip flops on this and the patriot act. He's not an honest person.

[Kittycat]

61. It does exist

You're just unwilling to search for it, because it will only prove that you're wrong. I've already shown you that in the span of only 2 days, you're recycling the same argument... You can now do a little searching for yourself if you really, honestly want answers. I've done my homework, I'm not going to do yours for you.

Again, enjoy your warmongering, clusterbombing, kyl/lieberman loving candidate. I'm sure she'll earmark her way in to history, and give bill a run for his donor's money :)

Bye.

[MagsDem]

63. I have searched endlessly for it... come on, win the argument

Prove it. It's clear you can't. I'll keep asking every day I have time to post. Sooner or later even the most casual observer will discover the truth is that he's full of shit 'always against the war' crap.

And Kyl/Lieberman? You mean that bill Obama went out of his way to avoid voting on? LOL. PRESENT!!!

[MagsDem]

43. Actually, it's more along the lines of don't be stupid....

make your candidate answer a minimum amount of questions before you support him/her. What is completely non-sensical is that Obama supporters will beat Hillary about the head for the same things they won't even ask their own candidate about it.

That's hard to justify. And I'm sorry, but I don't see how that can make any sense to a thinking person.

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[thevoiceofreason]

7. Give it a rest, mags

He's only explained it 100 times.

[MagsDem]

32. Should be easy to find a quote then

But I can't. I can't even find where he has admitted it.

[libertee]

9. He says he didn't vote for the war but we know he wasn't eligible..

kind of a cover..but it's worked with alot of folks

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. and campaigned against funding, said it was the same as war support, then voted for funding

[bellasgrams]

37. When he was first asked whether he would have voted for it he

he said he would have. But as we've seen in the past he has a way of back pedaling and twisting his remarks and says that's not what he said. I know a lot of people that won't vote for him because of his Reagan moment. He didn't mention any good dems. Just a good Repb. Nope, he not getting my vote, if I want to vote for a repb lover, they'll have an R after their name.

[NJSecularist]

13. Here comes the dumptruck

Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep.

The Hillbots are getting desperate.

[MagsDem]

36. So you can't explain it either then, obviously

See that's pretty troubling. And it's where the cultist meme comes from, I think. You don't question your candidate about such obvious things. Blind devotion is the order of the day.

[cloud75]

33. there are no red states and blue states only the united states!!! yes we can!!!

hope!!!! you not only have to be ready on day one but right on day one!!!---don't ask the man behind the curtain to explain anything.

[rodeodance]

34. Obamacrickets base their assessment on a NON-existant 'vote"

[Clinton Crusader]

66. Obamacrickets! lol, where do you come up with this stuff?

:evilgrin:

[DiamondJay]

35. Jesus Christ hath no need to explain his holiness

[jackson_dem]

39. Number of times Obama has been asked this by the msm (aka the public relations wing of his campaign)

0

[MagsDem]

45. That would be zero, zilch, never, nada

But what is particularly disappointing is that his rabid supporters here wouldn't even consider asking him. They simply do not care. However, the exact same thing makes Hillary the anti-christ.

I fear for this country. It's not a democracy when you are brainwashed by the media and rush to obey.

[jackson_dem]

52. Yup

This is what prompted me to post my thread about "Hillary not being evil, Obama not being a saint." They pummel Hillary for doing the same things Barack does while, due to their blinders, view Obama as a saint.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

40. It's an interesting strategy

to "defend" your candidate by bringing up ways you think the other candidate is just as bad as yours.

[MagsDem]

42. I don't demand purity, I demand honesty

There are no pure candidates. But my problem with Obama is that he is just dishonest. If he is going to criticize her for those votes, he should be able to explain his own about face on these issues in his brief time in the senate. Shouldn't he?

[robbedvoter]

46. The "fairy tale" was Bill attempting to confront him on that - was turned into racial attack by

by cropping out the subject matter and pretending the context was different. But that's what it was about : his anti-war pretenses are a fairy tale - not the fact that he was a candidate.

The same technique they used when they attacked Moveon for "Betrayus" - they changed the subject from the actual issue - lying about the effects of the surge. It was made into a personal attack on someone. Same means of lying - used in the Dem primary.

[MagsDem]

48. You hit the nail on the head about why I will never vote Obama

His campaign reminds me of the kind of campaign rethugs run. Lie, lie, avoid, evade, change the subject, make a bullshit accusation, then lie some more.

[democrattotheend]

53. Here's a link

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/clinton-slams-o.html

"The reality is that Obama wasn't in the senate in 2001, and then when he was, he was one of of a small band of senators who actually jumped in at the last minute to oppose the re-authorization of the legislation without more checks in what was a pretty bad bill that sought to remove what was left of the existing checks against abuses of the government's investigative powers..."

[MagsDem]

56. And here are the facts..... he voted for it

Clinton took direct aim at Obama and connects fairly solidly: "You said you would vote against the Patriot Act; you came to the Senate, you voted for it." Clinton is correct to say that Obama opposed the Patriot Act during his run for the Senate. She's relying on a 2003 Illinois National Organization for Women questionnaire in which Obama wrote that he would vote to "repeal the Patriot Act" or replace it with a "new, carefully crafted proposal." When it came time to reauthorize the law in 2005, though, Obama voted in favor of it. He started out opposing it: In Dec. 2005, Obama voted against ending debate--a position equivalent to declaring a lack of support for the measure. Then in February of that year, Obama said on the floor that he would support th Patriot Act's reauthorization. In March 2006, Obama both voted for cloture and for the Patriot Act reauthorization conference report.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Homeland_Security.htm

[democrattotheend]

57. Replace it with a new, carefully crafted proposal

Sounds like that is what he did. As the article pointed out, he was one of a handful of senators who refused to vote for it until key changes were made. Did you read the article?

[MagsDem]

60. Oh really, what was so "carefully crafted" about it?

What were the changes that were made to it that all the sudden won his support. He sure as hell couldn't explain that in the debate.

[democrattotheend]

64. Removing the library provision, for one

2006: Obama Voted For a PATRIOT Act Reauthorization Bill That Included Three Key Changes Designed to Prevent Abuse of Authority By Law Enforcement. The final conference report to reauthorize the PATRIOT Act, passed by Congress in March of 2006, included three key changes that were not in the original bill that President Bush supported in 2005. In a report on the changes made to the final conference report to reauthorize the PATRIOT Act, CQ wrote, "One allows recipients of a court-approved request for business records to challenge a gag order, although to overturn it they would have to wait one year and prove the government acted in "bad faith." The second change removes a requirement that recipients of national security letters, which do not require court approval, disclose the names of attorneys they consult or intend to consult. The third change clarifies language in the 2001 law to ensure that libraries operating in traditional roles and not as Internet service providers would not be subject to national security letters."

[MagsDem]

65. LOL -- are you serious?

So national security letters are just dandy as long as the people getting them don't have to disclose who their lawyers are? That was his only problem with it? Gee, I guess he just forgot to mention that when he said he would vote to repeal it.

Face it, the guy is a liar.

[DrFunkenstein]

59. Opposing Invasion Vs. Defunding Troops In The Field?

I appreciate your concern about matter, but I don't see I big conflict between opposing the war and dealing with the situation once the wheels (that Hillary helped) were set in motion.

As for the Patriot Act, there have been significant revisions to the measure, prompting even big anti-Patriot people to agree that it is simpler to mend it than start from scratch and let people inject pork.

[MagsDem]

62. Read the OP again

He voted against defunding it, voted against timetables, PRIOR to his decision to run for president. Then, once he decided to run as the anti-war guy, he started voting with is party to defund the war, to require timetables.

Give me a quote where he addresses why he's had that change of heart all of the sudden. Still waiting. And I'm going to keep asking every day I have time to post.