WA state caucuses a sham -- first person account

[MagsDem]

As is my habit, I attended the WA state caucuses this Saturday. Unlike previous caucuses, this one was obviously being run by Obama supporters. The WA state party machine is definitely behind him, but that does not give them the right to make a sham out of our caucuses. The caucus system is quite undemocratic to begin with -- but this took it to new heights. There is no check to see if people are registered to vote, voting in the correct precinct, or voting only once. And of course people who cannot devote the time it takes are left without a voice. That's typical caucus bullshit.

However, here are irregularities I witnessed, and coincidently, heard reports from friends that attended other caucus locations that mirrored my own experience.

1. The folks running the caucus clearly had no idea how the process worked. We watched in horror, as they "read the directions" and couldn't even follow them. Hello? Do you think people should get at least some minimal training on how the process works prior to the process taking place? Prior caucuses have not had this problem. And since when do we let supporters of ONE candidate control the process anyway?

2. They used unnumbered sign in sheets. Because they were unnumbered whole sheets could be discarded at will (or lost -- accidently, uh huh) and those votes not counted. I'm quite sure this happened in our precinct. When I signed in Hillary had a huge lead based on the preferences listed on the sign in sheets already completed. This evaporated later on.

3. NO COUNT was taken of those standing for a candidate. They simply used the sign in sheets instead. In my precinct it was clear that supporters were evenly divided between Obama and Clinton. But on the sign in sheets he was ahead 35 to 21. When the count was questioned the tally person found 2 more votes for Clinton, but did not subtract two from Obama. When it was clear that counting those standing showed an even split it was decided that they would simply count the preferences listed on the sign in sheet. In other words, heads Obama wins, tails Clinton loses.

It was a joke, folks. And it makes it clear to me why the Obama strategy is caucuses. All he needs to do is spend enough money to get the party machine on his side and the rest is history. I have been involved in the political process all my adult life -- 29 yrs. I have never seen such a sham of a process in my life.

[mimitabby]

1. another washington caucus attendee

My caucus was better than your caucus.
Our caucus was not obviously run by either candidate.
we had numbered tally sheets and there was a considerable effort to make sure persons
were voting in the right place. People were encouraged to talk about their candidate
and there was no pressure on the Clinton minority.
We did count.
You might not have known this; but people were allowed to sign in and then leave, so a good number of Obama supporters might have left after they signed up and that's why you didn't see them when it came to the tally.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

[MagsDem]

4. I spoke with people in 3 other precincts

And their experience mirrored mine. None of their tally sheets were numbered, so I'm kinda doubting that yours were.

The fact that you could sign in and leave means cheating was encouraged. This is the first time that has ever been allowed, and there is a good reason it is not normally allowed.

So it doesn't sound like the process used at your polling place was different than mine. It sounds like you just didn't mind. Why is that?

[freeplessinseattle]

73. didn't talk to me, or other WA people that have posted

very different experiences than yours. I'm not doubting you or those you have talked with had those experiences, but I also believe my own experience and others. From what it seems, individual precincts had varying zealots and incompetents, and if the Obama campaign was really behidn organizing aggressive tactics such as you described wouldn't it be across the board and not just here and there?

In my precinct, in Eastlake, I counted only 4 Obama signs, and they were all smaller than the Hillary signs that were every few feet. My precinct leader was an Obama supporter but was very careful about counting everyone and fair about allowing everyone equal speaking time. He even asked someone from the Hillary group to double check his counting. Maybe he missed the meeting on how to be an ass, better report him to the campaign.

[mimitabby]

83. MY TALLY SHEETS WERE NUMBERED!

i was one of the tally people and we noted the tally sheet numbers, thank you very much!

[thereismore]

2. Party machine working for Obama now? That's a first. Are you accusing the party

machine of fraud in favor of Obama? In a lot of states? Because somebody subtracted 2 votes from Clinton at your caucus? Why didn't you put the machine in its place right there and then? Were you intimidated? Oh the questions, the questions...

[MagsDem]

11. Did you read the post?

If you did, do you think the only problem was that Obama people were allowed to be in charge of counting and made very obvious "mistakes" or did you notice what I mentioned that he obviously did not have more supporters than her in my precinct, and he was still handed the delegates? When I talk about the party machine I mean the folks that set the rules that would allow the irregularities.

There certainly were protests from Clinton supporters that witnessed this joke of a process, but naturally they were ignored.

Since when is there a caucus where you can simply sign in and leave? Since Obama people took over the machine.

[Matariki]

My understanding is that yes, you can sign in and leave

That's what I had to do on saturday. Unfortunately.

on edit: http://fusewashington.org/about/163/caucus#time

[MagsDem]

29. New rules, just for the Obama caucus strategy

That has never been the case in past caucuses in this state, and it is completely corruptible.

[windbreeze]

90. so since it was the Democratic caucus....

doesn't it sound reasonable that someone from either the Hillary supporters, or Obama supporters would have been in charge of the caucus?? Maybe it would have been fairer if they had called in a McCain supporter to run things...??

Anything that's going on in the State of Washington, regarding caucus and primary bs, you can thank the Democratic party for, DIRECTLY...not the people who support different candidates..

I can tell you, the caucus I attend, is run correctly, and by the book, you sign in, prove who you are, write down who you are representing, and the delegates are decided by what percentage of supporters each candidate has at the time of the voting, if that seems unfair to you, then you need to take action to change it...I am sure that there are those who go away from each caucus site miffed, for whatever reason...I guess the thing to do, is to get hold of your Democratic party and insist the caucuses be done away with?....but since we seem to have gone to absentee balloting....can we trust those who count the votes in private to be any more honest than caucuses, where you can actually see what's happening???? wb

[MagsDem]

12. Did you read the post?

If you did, do you think the only problem was that Obama people were allowed to be in charge of counting and made very obvious "mistakes" or did you notice what I mentioned that he obviously did not have more supporters than her in my precinct, and he was still handed the delegates? When I talk about the party machine I mean the folks that set the rules that would allow the irregularities.

There certainly were protests from Clinton supporters that witnessed this joke of a process, but naturally they were ignored.

Since when is there a caucus where you can simply sign in and leave? Since Obama people took over the machine.

[gateley]

3. I'm sorry to hear that happened.

I just think there are so many new people participating in this year's process there's bound to be confusion. I think the majority of people are doing the best they can.

I've heard other comments from Washingtonians that indicated a more smooth operation, so maybe your precinct may have been one of the less organized ones?

Again, really, I'm sorry that happened.

[MagsDem]

13. It was clear it wasn't an accident

And I am sure the people you heard from are Obama supporters. We had plenty of people in 2004 as well, and things were organized just fine. This process was absolutely corrupt. You folks who support Obama are looking at the dem version of GW Bush.

[mckeown1128]

21. WTF?!?

The dem version of GWBush?! You are kidding, right?! Obama wins a few caucuses and all of a sudden you are claiming voter fraud. Clinton won Nevada and Kerry won many caucuses in 2004...so were they stealing the elections also. Don't forget that Obama has one primaries also... so is he only stealing elections on caucus days. Give me a break.

[MagsDem]

27. He has a strategy focused on caucuses

And they are extremely corruptible and one cannot argue, do NOT give voice to the voters as a whole. Why do you think his strategy is so focused on caucuses?

[apocalypsehow]

56. Haven't you heard? That's the new meme whenever the Clinton campaign comes up short on votes:

Democratic Primaries/Caucuses of 2008 = Florida in 2000. It's a contemptible assertion, but look to see more of it after the polls close this coming Tuesday and Senator Obama wins yet again.

[rodeodance]

87. have you heard--Blame everything on Hillary--even when there are obvious problem!

[HughMoran]

5. After all of the uproar over NH and the eventual recount of some counties

This "caucus" system seems like it's something those who want election reform should be going ape-shit over.

[MagsDem]

14. The caucus system should absolutely be ABOLISHED

It is completely corruptible and in our case it was completely corrupted. I watched it with my own eyes, and this is not my first time at a caucus. In fact, I have never missed one. This was a complete sham.

[LiberalFighter]

38. I don't agree it should be abolished but I do agree that there should be rules

and they should be followed. And those conducting the caucuses should be unbias or at the least require that the people in charge be from both campaigns.

[Ronnie]

77. If it's possible to cheat,

there will be cheating. Ask any teacher.

[newmajority]

6. The PCO of my caucus was wearing a Hillary sticker

She appointed her own daughter, also a Hillary supporter to some semi-official capacity, and another friend of hers, who also seemed to be caucusing with the Hillarites, as the official vote counter.

So you could say my caucus was "controlled" by Hillbots. Guess what? Obama still won.

Why is that? Because he had more supporters. That's the reality. Deal with it. Hillary did not have a lot of support in Washington state. And thank God for that.

As for the "party machine" being on Obama's side, SPARE ME.

CLINTON endorsements (a.k.a. "the party machine"):

-U.S. Sen. Patty Murray

-U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell

-Former Gov. Gary Locke

-Paul Berendt, former Washington Democratic Party chairman

-U.S. Rep. Jay Inslee

-King County Executive Ron Sims

-Snohomish County Executive Aaron Reardon

-Lt. Gov. Brad Owen

-Rep. Sherry Appleton, Poulsbo

-Ron Bonlender, former Yakima City councilman

-Mary-Alyce Burleigh, Kirkland City councilwoman

-Sally Clark, Seattle City councilwoman

-Rep. Judy Clibborn, Mercer Island

-Pam Daniels, former Snohomish County clerk

-Jan Drago, Seattle City councilwoman

-Sen. Tracey Eide, Federal Way

-Jean Godden, Seattle City councilwoman

-Jeff Gombosky, former state representative, Spokane

-Sen. Steve Hobbs, Lake Stevens

-Rep. Sam Hunt, Olympia

-Faith Ireland, former Supreme Court justice

-Sen. Karen Keiser, Kent

-Kathy Keolker, former mayor of Renton

-Rep. Phyllis Kenney, Seattle

-Joe King, former speaker of the House

-Rep. Liz Loomis, Snohomish

-Valoria Loveland, director of the state Department of Agriculture

-Rep. Dawn Morrell, Puyallup

-Rep. Sharon Nelson, Vashon

-Rep. Al O'Brien, Mountlake Terrace

-Val Ogden, former state representative

-Cathy Pearsall-Stipek, former Pierce County auditor

-Larry Phillips, King County councilman

-Sen. Margarita Prentice, Renton

-Cindy Ryu, Shoreline City councilwoman

-Rep. Shay Schual-Berke, state representative, Sea-Tac

-Betti Sheldon, former state senator

-Sen. Paull Shin, Edmonds

-Rep. Helen Sommers, Seattle

-Catherine Stanford, Lake Forest Park City Council

-Brian Sullivan, Snohomish County councilman

-Gael Tarleton, Seattle port commissioner

-Pat Thibaudeau, former state senator

-Sen. Rodney Tom, Medina

-Janet Way, Shoreline City council

-Sen. Brian Weinstein, Mercer Island

Doesn't look like Hillary was lacking support from the party. Only from the PEOPLE.

[MagsDem]

26. The party machine is not run by the elected officials

Don't you know they are above all that? The final insult was a precinct my friend attended, where they insisted Clinton supporters had to choose 5 delegates and alternates to go to the county caucus, even though she did not win 5 delegates in that precinct. They were told that the delegates she did win would go to Obama because they did not have enough volunteers to send for Hillary.

Corrupt.

[Debi]

28. How do elected officials get elected

without the party 'machine'?

[MagsDem]

33. Not by a corrupted caucus process, that's for sure

And so they don't get involved. This is a once every 4 yrs process only used for the presidential nomination. And all those folks are super delegates. I have never known a single one of them to involve themselves in the caucus process.

[Debi]

71. What do you do for your off-year party process?

You don't hold caucuses in the non-presidential years to determine who will be local central committee members and state convention delegates?

[newmajority]

55. No, that wouldn't be corrupt, that would be STUPID.

If the people running that precinct were that dumb, then that is an issue for the voters of that precinct to resolve, but it doesn't amount to corruption.

It's also possible your friend misunderstood. The sign in sheets were the written ballot. So if enough Hillary supporters wrote Hillary's name as their candidate choice in that precinct, she would get 5 delegates and 5 alternates. However, if some of the Hillarites left the caucus before delegates were elected, and there weren't enough of them to elect 10 people (5 delegates and 5 alternates) THEN and ONLY then, would the remaining delegates be divided among the remaining candidates. In this case, the blame would fall to the Hillarites themselves for leaving early. But their votes were still counted.

[IndieLeft]

7. You guys will try anything.

I love how Hillary's campaign will do something wrong, and then in a desperate attempt to divert attention from themselves, they blame Obama's camp for doing it.

Anything to win.

[HughMoran]

17. The caucus system is fantastic, isn't it?

:D

[MagsDem]

18. Excuse me?

Are you calling me a liar? If so, fuck off. I saw this sham with my own eyes. I witnessed the fact that our precinct had an even split on people standing for both Obama and Clinton, and the tally was written down as 35 Obama and 21 Clinton based on unnumbered sign in sheets that could not be matched to anyone standing there.

Is that democracy to you? It doesn't resemble any democracy I want to legitimitize.

People, you are looking at a pretty nasty preview of a suppossed Obama administration. That is why I will not vote for him even if he does make it to the general. No way in hell.

[newmajority]

59. Bullshit.

Where is your evidence that the precinct was an even split? Where is your evidence that the sign in sheets were tampered with?

I see Hillbot mafia accusations without one goddamned shred of evidence.

Go vote for McCain then. You sound like someone who was going to do so in the first place anyway, or at least be happy to let a DIEBOLD machine do so for you.

[elixir]

62. Why don't you discuss this topic w/out labels, it reads better.

[newmajority]

66. Well, it's just awfully funny that there weren't all these stories of "corrupt caucuses"

Until the Hillary talking points about the caucus process being "undemocratic" hit the DLC e-mail list.

Which happened only after Hillary got her ass kicked all weekend in caucuses, naturally. ;)

[rodeodance]

79. Not really--problems emerge on their own. And their are problems.

[newmajority]

61. Bullshit.

Where is your evidence that the precinct was an even split? Where is your evidence that the sign in sheets were tampered with?

I see Hillbot mafia accusations without one goddamned shred of evidence.

Go vote for McCain then. You sound like someone who was going to do so in the first place anyway, or at least be happy to let a DIEBOLD machine do so for you.

[Debi]

8. I wonder why folks who were so much more experienced in running their caucuses

......didn't.

I heard the same complaints in Iowa. "The caucus I attended (and my candidate didn't prevail in) were poorly run compared to four/eight years ago". If you knew what to do and you felt the person running the caucus didn't - WHY didn't you HELP?

I'm sure your local party would appreciate an experienced hand.

[MagsDem]

31. My local party had a hand from me for 20 yrs

I have knocked thousands of doors, given plenty of money, volunteered to work the polls and drive people to vote for 16 hrs a day on election day. And now I am a single parent. So KMA.

The problem is the process was taken over by Obama supporters, with new rules put in place by Obama supporters, and absolutely no one giving a damn if the votes were counted properly.

[Debi]

50. So you 'earned' your right to sit there on caucus day and do nothing

except come to DU on Monday and piss and moan b/c your candidate didn't win?

Cry me a fucking river - either help the situation or STFU!

People who 'could' help but don't ARE the problem.

Sitting and complaining about 'kids these days' is bullshit. Help the future of the party, don't whine about them.

Give guidance, not gripe.

I learned how to run a caucus from those who ran them before me - and I trained the next person based on my experience - I didn't just step down and then complain when things didn't go my way. (and things didn't go my way - I left my caucus uncommitted)

I've been attending platform committee meetings with new members of our party (from Obama and Edwards and Clinton), they are not used to the process and have ideas that us 'seasoned veterans' haven't considered. But I'll listen to them and work with them. Because when I finally step down, they will be running the party. And I'm not about to sit on the sidelines whining about how 'they' don't know what they're doing.

Shame on you.

[nonconformist]

58. Wow, part of your post was like deja vu

Took me back to Republicans telling us to STFU when we would complain of voting irregularities.

I thought we were all for accurate elections?

[Debi]

68. sitting on your hands and doing NOTHING to help the situation but piss an moan

will not bring about accurate elections. Getting off your butt and volunteering for your party will (and that includes helping the new people learn how to run a caucus and offering to help if they don't understand the rules/procedures).

[elixir]

63. Why doesn't everyone tone down the language. It sounds like MagsDem has a legit complaint and has

volunteered a lot of their time for the greater good. So have you. It doesn't make either one of you better than the other.

It sounds like there were problems and they should be addressed.

[Debi]

67. They should have been addressed at the caucus - with an offer to help

folks helped set up tables/put out food/hang posters at our caucus - anything to get it up and running smoothly. We had complaints of 'over counting' by the Edwards people at our caucus from the Clinton folks - so we offered to have them count the Edwards supporters for us - NO, it wasn't their job. :eyes: Instead everyone had to line up and count off - guess what? No over-count...just complaining and not helping.

Sitting back and fuming and then running to a message board to complain two days later doesn't change what was happening at the time. She should have offered to help.

[Occam Bandage]

9. So your precinct leaders suck, and therefore Obama's wins are illegitimate. Gotcha.

[Debi]

22. Washington doesn't matter - because they drink lattes and are educated

:crazy:

[HughMoran]

25. ok

g'bye! :hi:

[Debi]

30. Going somewhere?

[HughMoran]

41. Do we really need any more snarkiness here?

My snarkometer is broken - I'm just so tired of it.

[Debi]

51. Why are you responding to me?

You are the one who said good-bye :hi:

[HughMoran]

54. 'Cause of the bunny

:D

[Debi]

69. But you made him cry

say sorry to the bunny. :cry:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

88. Some of the caucusers were probably black too, so you know they don't count. nt

[HughMoran]

23. So you could care less about legitimacy of the process due to choice of candidate - gotcha

No shame!

[Occam Bandage]

32. Oh, no. Clearly the precinct leaders here are incompetent and should have been

voted out.

[HughMoran]

35. Can the caucus system ever approach the levels of accountability of a primary

We had a recount here in NH - it was a big deal. Is there any way to go back and fix what happened in the O/P's caucus site (a "recount" if you will?)

[Occam Bandage]

42. It can have even greater accountability, and it can have it happen instantly.

It can vote to kick out the current caucus leadership, it can vote to recount, it can vote to do anything of the sort. All that need happen is someone propose a motion, someone second it, and a majority to agree.

[MagsDem]

45. Obama has exported the corrupt Chicago system across...

the caucus process. Once you buy your way in you own it, and it seems pretty clear to me he has done that here. To believe otherwise I have to believe a well ordered process with rules that made sense and made a caucus at least somewhat fair just went to hell all by itself since 2004. Sorry, I'm not that gullible.

[Occam Bandage]

48. Many of the problems, I'm guessing, can be better attributed to

turnout. Caucuses are very manpower-intensive, and large turnout can easily overwhelm an unprepared leadership. A lot of what you posted sounds incompetent and confused, not malicious. And this year, we're breaking turnout records everywhere.

Sure, corruption is a possibility. But we haven't been hearing stories like this nationwide; there's no good pattern to the few stories of incompetent caucusing.

[VolcanoJen]

70. That's an outrageous accusation.

And by that same token, maybe we could also talk about that Tammany Hall operation the Clintons were running in the on-site Casino caucuses in Nevada.

I mean, c'mon. I'm very, very sorry your experience was awful, and I'm very concerned about your experience. But I haven't seen anything to suggest that there was some kind of concerted, widespread effort in Washington State to disenfranchise Clinton voters specifically.

I also feel pretty strongly that you, or another attendee of the caucus, could have been more proactive. I can guarantee you that shit wouldn't have gone on if I had been there.

[MagsDem]

37. They weren't incompetent, they were crooked

Reminds of Bush -- you have to decide, are they incomptetent or corrupt? Great choice, eh?

[Occam Bandage]

39. Either way, this would be a great opportunity for you

to take over, or to find someone like-minded. If they were that bad, a majority of people at your caucus would have been awfully offended. It's too bad that none of you thought of challenging them for leadership (It sounds like you would have won handily), but this would be a great time to start getting involved. Maybe you could contact your local papers too?

[HughMoran]

43. So the process is crooked by default and it's the voters responsibility to fix it?

A lot of us aren't cut out for that sort of role - are you saying that caucuses are only for the political hardcore types who know how to take the bull by the horns?

[Occam Bandage]

46. Yeah. That's what caucuses are. The caucus system has the same problems as many local parties.

They're a huge timesink; the only people willing to run them are generally those who are too old or too incompetent to have an actual job. The upside is that anyone can stand up and fix any problem; my sister in MN told me how she virtually took over the caucus halfway through because the precinct leader was too confused to continue in an orderly fashion. The downside is that if nobody does, things can become an enormous mess.

I love caucuses, but in many ways they're flawed; with large turnout they can collapse in confusion. Perhaps their day is passed.

[HughMoran]

49. "Perhaps their day is passed."

I've been thinking & posting the same thing since I heard the stories from both sides about intimidation and manipulation in Nevada. As you state, they sound like a lot of fun, but fair & incorruptible? I'm not so sure.

[HughMoran]

53. "Perhaps their day is passed."

I've been thinking & posting the same thing since I heard the stories from both sides about intimidation and manipulation in Nevada. As you state, they sound like a lot of fun, but fair & incorruptible? I'm not so sure.

[MagsDem]

44. Sorry, I did my 20 yrs, and now am a single parent

It would be a great time for corrupt people not to move in and take advantage of the system, but I am afraid that if Obama gets the nod we can kiss a fair system goodbye. He learned it from the best -- the Dem party machine in Chicago -- I'm sure. Not happy to see it exported here to WA state.

[HughMoran]

47. So the process is crooked by default and it's the voters responsibility to fix it?

A lot of us aren't cut out for that sort of role - are you saying that caucuses are only for the political hardcore types who know how to take the bull by the horns?

[MagsDem]

36. Not just mine, unfortunately

Obama put his people in, and they put in the fix. Yes, he probably would have won the state, but his strategy is to get the most delegates, and his people were on the job in every corruptible way possible.

[rodeodance]

80. If precinct leaders are lax, then their are discepencies. questions about the validity of the

outcome are valid.

[book_worm]

10. Of course not--Obama won it so it doesn't matter.

[RiverStone]

15. We had a great caucus in WA

Sorry - you just had an inept precinct leader.

The directions were read out loud for ALL to hear.

We did have numbered sheets.

And our first count was taken by both a Hillary and Obama supporter sitting alone at the same small table. We debated with 1 minute rules per person (per speech) applying.

We took a second vote.

And it was all above board.

The only down side was there were not enough chairs! Standing room only.

Here in SW Washington - I thought our local leaders did a great job with the caucus.

And BTW, it was 51 Obama 11 Clinton (final in my room). The few undecideds and 1 Richardson supporter all went for Obama by the time we got to the second vote.

[Matariki]

16. I noticed some similar things at my washington caucus too.

I was wondering why there were Obama signs everywhere, both inside and outside the building - and none for Clinton.

I was also wondering about how the sign-in sheets were going to be verified as there was no voter look up like at an election.

Don't forget that both our Senators are Clinton supporters while the Governor is an Obama supporter. I don't think there's necessarily a statewide conspiracy for one candidate or the other. Now, the republican results, those were odd..

[Tarc]

19. This is why the caucus system should be retired

It is an amazing study in hypocrisy that Obamanation can bitch and moan and bellyache over 796 supredelegates, yet are rabidly supportive of systems where people can be badgered for hours on end to change their vote.

[elixir]

64. DING DING DING. Tarc, you nailed it. The caucus system sounds like it's built for intimidation

and badgering. Why do states choose to hold caucuses instead of primaries? Anybody know?

[joshcryer]

76. EXACTLY, if these practices were allowed at polls, what would people here say?

They would shit themselves! But it's illegal to campaign at polls! Against the law!

[gort]

20. I was in 11th district and our tally sheets were numbered.

That's my subjective analysis about my experience.

We were allocated 6 potential delegates. Out of 40 voting, 28 voted for Obama and 10 voted for Clinton.

Everyone got a minute to talk for their candidate. We allowed time for one on one lobbying and no one changed their mind. Everyone tried to be respecful. A couple of very young Obama supporters were overzealous and were asked to settle down.

I talked with one Clinton supporter who was in her 80's. I told her I would be happy to vote for either candidate and she said she wouldn't. I respected her opinion and then we talked about movies. She is a big Ronald Colman fan and Lost Horizons is her favorite movie.

In the end Obama got 4, Clinton got 2.

The rest of the district trended that way.

Whichever way it goes, remember, remember to Vote in November.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

24. That sounds like an undemocratic mess of a process

[HeraldSquare212]

34. When I voted in NY, several people ahead of me weren't on the rolls

though they said they had been registered and voted before. They had to fill out provisional ballots. Primaries are no panacea, either.

[MagsDem]

40. This was a caucus, there are no "rolls"

You don't have to prove your are registered to vote, or even live in the precinct you are voting in. And there is nothing to stop you from voting in every precinct you can get to during the time registration opens and the tally's are counted. Chiefly because the party machine here decided you could sign in to the caucus then walk right back out the door, and your vote would be counted.

The Obama campaign is seeing that it pays to buy supporters that can rig things like this. I think that is why he has spent more money on campaign salaries than any candidate ever in the history of this country. Money buys a lot in this country when it comes to "democracy."

[joshcryer]

75. Money buys caucuses, this is undoubted.

All you gotta do is pay a few people on the ground and they can manipulate the caucus.

[weeve]

52. Nope

I caucused ... far more Hillary signs, etc. It was as fair as could be, and Obama walked away with it. The WA "machine" is right now for Hillary ( Senators, Super Delegates ), despite the obvious will of the people. I called my Senators, and they say they're getting loads of calls, urging them to refelct the popular will and switch their stated endorsement. Let's hope they do the right thing.

[avrdream]

57. Mags, I appreciate you putting your story out there.

We are not the only ones who find Obama's wins in caucuses suspect.

He doesn't do nearly as well in primaries - if the people really are "speaking" as a poster above stated, why aren't they speaking so strongly in non-caucus states?

Just sayin'.

[newmajority]

72. That's a valid question

Perhaps the answer is the fact that Democracy Is Eliminated Beyond Our Lifetime (if we) Don't act now.

[K Gardner]

60. I must be PSYCHIC ! All I had to do was look at the title of the OP and I knew Obama had cheated !

Man, I'm gettin good at this !

:bounce: :think:

[rodeodance]

81. And you lecture me on rudeness!!--your post is shameful!

[WHAT]

65. so silly...

and it sounds like microsoft territory, too. You'd think they'd know better, or maybe not.

[rodeodance]

82. and just what is so silly about serious problems at caucuses??

so silly...
Posted by WHAT


and it sounds like microsoft territory, too. You'd think they'd know better, or maybe not.

[joshcryer]

74. Caucuses are campaign events. They're undemocratic to the core. If polls were allowed to be run...

...the way caucuses were, campaigning right outside of the polling place, heads would fucking roll.

HEADS WOULD ROLL.

[chascarrillo]

78. Using sign-in sheets was an "irregularity"? Those were the RULES.

Good grief. :eyes:

[mimitabby]

84. i guess my caucus was taking over by Hillary bots

because they ran out of Obama buttons!! oh, the outrage.

In my precinct we chose two people to tally, an Obama supporter ME and my neighbor, an ardent Hillary supporter...

We REALLY didn't want any mistakes.

The tally sheets were numbered... 1 of 12, 2 of 12, etc...

[HeraldSquare212]

85. Given what's going on on the Republican side, I'd say Washington is all screwed up

You're the Democratic party in Washington - it's up to you to improve things.

[AX10]

86. Sham indeed.

[massromantic]

89. Similiar experience in Kansas

Some irregularities:

1. People registering to vote without an ID being checked. This is absolutely a necessary step in registering to vote.

2. People filling out voter registration cards in PENCIL. A big no no.

What makes me sick is that the SOS office in KS is going to get these voter registration applications and immediately reject them all because of this pencil business.

If this is how the Obama camp is registering voters, the 2008 general election is going to be a bigger legal mess than 2000.