To Hillary supporters blaming caucuses and "intimidation"...

[ButterflyBlood]

I live in a caucus state. We voted 2:1 for Obama. There was no element of intimidation here because we didn't vote by standing in groups, we voted via paper ballots. And it was secret ballot, at least if you wanted it to be (many Obama supporters showed their votes at my precinct out of pride basically.) You didn't need to even attend the actual caucus to vote! You could've just voted and left like a normal election. And we still gave Obama a 2:1 victory, and an over 86%+ victory in my precinct.

So then how is it that the evil caucus system is the reason Obama wins?

[JVS]

1. So the reports of old ladies being lit on fire by crazed college kids are exaggerated?

[ButterflyBlood]

3. Yah, don't you know?

A few screaming college kids can change any woman's vote! Because obviously women are so weak and easily intimidated, no woman can ever stand up to a man...oh yeah and if you don't support Hillary you're sexist!

[CoffeeCat]

2. You know what is so sad about all of this...

Is that caucuses are such an awesome way to participate in democracy.

They are organized, they are lively and everyone understands that each
person and their vote--are respected.

When you caucus, you stand with neighbors, friends and others from your community. Everyone
is so helpful and kind. There isn't any pressure, nor does anyone get angry or upset
with anyone for endorsing a particular candidate.

I caucused for Dean in '04. I was the only one for Dean so he was not viable. I had
people in every candidate camp talking to me about their candidate. I learned a great
deal, but I decided not to join another camp. No one was angry. No one threatened me or
made me feel bad. It is all respectful. We are all adults.

Hillary Clinton has disparaged the Iowa caucus process. She is now filtering this hate-filled
talking point through Web sources and through her surrogates. It's so self serving and
it's so disgusting. It's being done to SERVE HER. She's trying to diminish the effect of
Obama's multiple wins, by blaming the caucus process and criticizing it.

In effect, she is disparaging the states that have caucuses, and the people in these states
who work so hard to make them fair and professional.

I am really disgusted with what a human lawn mower Hillary Clinton is. She cuts up anything
that gets in her way, and she doesn't give a rip who that hurts or how hundreds of thousands
of people in caucus states will be affected by her lies and distortions.

She really is a selfish, myopic, ruthless person--and I am ashamed that she is a Democrat.

You would think that with 35 years of experience--that she would have learned a little bit
about being a decent, gracious person--instead of devolving into a bitter, cynical,
Rovian propagandist.

[Eurobabe]

4. For that you get a heart!

:hi:

[CoffeeCat]

9. Awwww thanks...

...for the heart. That was sweet of you.

Love your Kool Aid guy!

:hi:

[rodeodance]

5. What a vile hate-filled post-go wash your mouth out with soap-strong soap!

[CoffeeCat]

8. No actually, it's not hate...it's sadness...

Sadness that Hillary Clinton would service herself, and not care one
whit about anyone else.

Hillary's needs and wants trump the caucus states, AND the untold numbers of people who just participated
in those caucuses, AND the people who worked so diligently to make those caucuses
professional and fair.

She's denigrating and insulting thousands of people.

Curious that you find truth so revolting, yet you have no qualms about your candidate
slicing and dicing caucus goers and states that have caucuses--nearly one quarter of
the Dem electorate that has voted so far in these primaries.

[rodeodance]

26. Clinton has made a fair assessment of caucuses--they do disenfranchise

many.

Enough said

[Egnever]

6. wow

Well said there.

[ginnyinWI]

7. I'm so tired of Hillary's excuses!

If she were to become president, is this what we'd hear for four years? Whining about how everything that went wrong was someone else's fault? Sheesh! What if a male candidate were to try that ploy?

And as for her ruthless tactics, maybe she has some idea that they make her look "strong". But we've already had seven years of that kind of thinking.

"Human Lawn Mower"--great imagery!

[joshcryer]

10. Not all caucuses are like that though.

edit: oh, btw, I don't "defend Hillary's losses" because of the caucusing system or anything. I mean obviously there's a compenent to it, but I have no problem with the way the system is now. I think it should be changed, however, due to caucuses having so much say with so little representation. Either that, or an all day caucusing system where you don't have to be there at a certain time and place. Oh, and national voters days would be nice, too.

[CoffeeCat]

12. Have you ever participated in a caucus?

You speak as if you've got an encyclopedic knowledge of caucuses.

If someone says something positive about a caucus, you dismiss it and
point out that...well, not all caucuses are good.

People who participate in caucuses, have gone to them for years and help
organize them are trying to tell you guys--that what Hillary says is
pure bull.

She had no problem with the caucuses before she began tanking in the
polls in Iowa--three days before the caucus. Then, the propaganda
machine kicked in high gear.

She's been out of control with her bitter disinformation campaign
ever since, and people like you who engage in this "Swiftboatting"
are only echoing her lies.

I want to know what experience you've had in a caucus.

[joshcryer]

18. I will admit that I've never been to one, however, I have been to town meetings...

...on many ocassions. Now I know they're not the same thing, but logically, just how society works, I think that they're not fair for all sorts of reasons. I want everyone to be out there voting, I think it's incredible that the USA, supposedly the harbringer of global modern democracy, has some of the lowest turnouts of any democratic state.

And as we can see with the recent turnouts in caucuses, they simply cannot handle our populations.

Maine got 12-15% turnout of the Democratic Eligible Voters. NY got 31% of Democratic Eligible Voters (they're both closed, one is a primary the other is a caucus, as you know). And Maine had record turnouts. Almost 4 times as many people came out in Maine as in 2004. Don't you find that disconcerting?

How can people all vote, what can compell them all to vote? Where each vote is equal?

I am a proponent of direct (possibly runoff) democracy.

[CoffeeCat]

22. You're right that town-hall meetings aren't...

...the same as a caucus. Not even close.

I don't find record turnouts "disconcerting". Not in the least.

This year in the Iowa caucuses, we had record turnouts. Turnout increased 100 percent
from 04. I was a precinct captain, so naturally I had a lot on my plate that
night. However, it was fun, exciting and absolutely thrilling to be involved.

Everyone worked together to make sure that we had accurate counts, the process worked
just fine and everyone went home knowing that their vote wasn't lost down some optical
scan voting machine.

It was beautiful.

Unprecedented turnout is a good thing. Any type of election process would face challenges
with record turnout. That's no reason to scrap the process.

The problem is, these "problems" with the caucuses don't exist. Hillary is making up
rumors to service herself and her campaign. That's the problem.

I think it's good that you think about these processes and that you have your own opinions
about what is good. You mentioned a runoff. It's good to think about alternatives and to
want fair processes. However, I think we can all agree that being a sore loser and disparaging
the process--to hurt your opponent is selfish, and it damages people who don't deserve it.

[donheld]

11. Not in my precinct

I can honestly say in my precinct, in Denver's Capitol Hill, there was NO intimidation at all.

[CoffeeCat]

14. Intimidation was never even SUGGESTED..

...until this year, by Hillary Clinton and her surrogates--AFTER she lost
the first caucus in Iowa.

The Iowa caucuses have been going on for more than 100 years. During that time,
we've never had a single candidate accuse the caucuses of disenfranchising voters
or being bastions of intimidation.

Funny, how all of this disgusting evil just simply slipped by the thousands of
politicians who won and lost in the caucuses through the years, isn't it?

This is getting utterly ridiculous.

Our caucus process is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. There is something
wrong with Hillary Clinton--because she is willing to denigrate the states that
have caucuses, and the people who vote and organize them---to leverage her own
political distortions.

I have newfound disrespect for her--because of this.

When you know the truth, and see it---and you watch a candidate lie and distort--it's
very sad and very telling.

[cooolandrew]

13. Exactly, he has genuinely won. The labels we've got "c" words, mysogynists and now violent bullies..

...That is not the Obama supporters I have witnessed they all seem very good nature and enthusiastic.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

15. well, I'd picka caucus over a primary any day, it actually seems more democratic

and a lot more involved and Fun!

[TexasObserver]

16. They're just cranky, that's why they're making these absurd cult comments.

It's probably got something to do with the Metamusil shortage. All that ... anger ... backed up.

[CoffeeCat]

19. Well, hold on Texas...

...all of that anger will be in your state, in less than a month.

If your state does not go Hillary's way, you should expect her to start
insulting your state and your political process!

Get ready for it. It's coming!

Vote for Hillary or your whole state is a sham!

:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

23. Well, maybe that new cereal will be available for them by then.

What's it called? Oh yeah, Colon Blow, with 48 times the fiber as TOTAL.

[CoffeeCat]

24. I wouldn't want them campaigning in my state...

...after eating a few bowls of that!

:hi:

[Hill_YesWeWill]

25. Bring it on, I cant wait for the candidates to come here, I live about an hour north east of Austin

and I'm starting to see myself as right in the middle of the two candidates, I really like them both, maybe I'm undecided?

[nonconformist]

17. I hope North Dakota goes blue in November, with all that Obama support

And gives us their 3 electoral votes.

[ButterflyBlood]

20. So now only blue state Democrats' votes matter?

Well previously we've heard fro Billary that blacks' votes don't matter, next step...

But my 2:1 Obama state is a blue state, and the one with the longest streak of voting Democratic, since 1976 and beyond.

[lligrd]

21. I'd Love The Opportunity To Participate In A Caucus

I think it is wonderful that you guys have a choice. With us it is just stand in line, vote and go to work.