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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:47 PM
Original message
Hillary's Curious Campaign Loan

Hillary's Curious Campaign Loan

By Nat Parry
February 9, 2008

Only days before the make-or-break “Super Tuesday” primaries, Hillary Clinton dipped into her personal finances to lend her campaign $5 million, a move she kept secret until the day after she had battled Barack Obama to a standstill in the coast-to-coast voting.

If she had disclosed the loan before Super Tuesday, it might not only have generated troubling questions about the financial health of her campaign; it might have focused unwanted attention on the sources of the Clintons’ money.

Unlike other well-to-do politicians, the Clintons did not inherit their wealth or amass a fortune during a prior business career. Just seven years ago, on leaving the White House, the Clintons were millions of dollars in debt due to the costs of fighting legal battles.

Since then, they amassed a personal fortune – now estimated at about $30 million – largely from book contracts and the cachet of a former U.S. President, whose status attracted lucrative business deals and speaking tours, many involving overseas interests.

The proximity between the Clintons’ new-found wealth and Hillary Clinton’s presidential run raised eyebrows over whether the $5 million loan – and any future financial help she might give her campaign – could constitute backdoor financing from benefactors beyond what they could legally donate.

On Feb. 6, Sen. Clinton told reporters that the loan was “my money,” apparently meaning that she was not relying on the funds of her husband or anyone else. A Clinton spokesman later added that the loan was from her “share of their joint resources.”

Since 2001, Sen. Clinton has reported earning $9.9 million from Simon & Shuster for her memoir, Living History, on top of her Senate salary of $169,300 a year.

Still, the bulk of the family income derives from Bill Clinton’s speeches and his participation in business ventures, which -- when combined with the multi-million-dollar fundraising for his foundation and his presidential library -- have come to be known as “Clinton Inc.”

Last month, the Wall Street Journal reported that former President Clinton stands to make $20 million as he unwinds a complicated business relationship with Yucaipa Cos., the investment firm of his longtime supporter, billionaire Ron Burkle, which has connections to the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum. (WSJ, Jan. 22, 2008)

A week ago, the New York Times described the help Clinton gave Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra in securing a lucrative uranium deal with the repressive government of Kazakhstan in 2005, shortly before Giustra made an unreported $31.3 million donation to Clinton’s foundation. (NYT, Jan. 31, 2008)

Sen. Clinton’s most recent financial disclosure form showed that the former president also earned $10.2 million for giving 57 speeches in 2006. Of those speeches, 31 were delivered outside the United States for $6.4 million.

From 2001 to 2007, Bill Clinton collected nearly $40 million in speaking fees, according to a review by the Washington Post. His paid speeches – with fees as high as $400,000 – included appearances before landlord groups, biotechnology firms, food distributors, charities and leadership organizations all over the world.

The legal significance of Hillary Clinton’s assertion that the $5 million loan came from her portion of the couple’s wealth relates to the political sensitivity – and questionable legality – of a husband or wife financing the campaign of a spouse. Federal law only allows the candidate to make unlimited contributions to his or her own campaign.

For instance, when Sen. John Kerry arranged a $6.4 million loan to keep his 2004 campaign afloat, he used his Boston townhouse as collateral, rather than count on help from his multi-millionaire wife, Theresa Heinz Kerry.

Troubled Campaign?

Since the announcement of the $5 million loan, the Clinton campaign has tried to reassure anxious supporters that the loan does not signify a lack of resources or possible trouble staying competitive with Obama.

But Joe Trippi, a former adviser to John Edwards, said the loan is a warning sign. “It means she’s at a tremendous disadvantage moving forward,” he said. “The worst thing to be is an 800-pound gorilla who’s out of money.”

There’s also the mystery of why Hillary Clinton’s campaign needed this sudden infusion of cash. While Clinton justified the loan as necessary “to be competitive” with Obama, her campaign raised more money in 2007 than any candidate of either party.

Over the year, she brought in a total of $115.7 million, far above the $75 million goal she set at the beginning of the year. In comparison, the Obama campaign raised $102.2 in 2007. In the final three months of the year, she out-raised Obama by nearly $4 million.

It does appear that Obama out-raised Clinton in January, with reported receipts of $32 million for the month, compared to Clinton’s reported $13 million. But Clinton seemed to go out of her way to downplay that shortfall before Super Tuesday.

She claimed to have had “a great month fundraising in January,” a month in which her campaign “broke all the records.”

But there is concern among Clinton’s advisers that her smaller roster of contributors means that many have reached their legal limit and thus can’t give more. By contrast, Obama has relied on more small donors who mostly have not “maxed out.”

<...>

Now, with Hillary Clinton emulating Rove’s fundraising machine, some campaign reformers wonder if similar favors are in store for her biggest bundlers. Some point out that her level of disclosure of bundlers does not even meet the low standard set by George W. Bush in 2004.

In a letter (PDF) to Clinton, Public Citizen said her campaign “fails to disclose bundlers’ cities and states of residence, how much money they raised other than to note that they have raised at least $100,000, or who they raised their money from.”

Her disclosure “not only fails to set an exemplary standard,” it doesn’t even “live up to the standard of George Bush and Dick Cheney,” the watchdog group said.

more


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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Something stinks here.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. does anyone think there is anything the Clintons won't do to get in office?
I mean anything. And do we want such rot in our party eating it from within?
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Says she won't release them "unless she secures the Democratic nomination"
Clinton says 'not yet' to releasing tax returns
by James Oliphant

Despite pressure from Sen. Barack Obama, the Clinton campaign said Friday that it wouldn't not release Sen. Hillary Clinton's tax returns unless she secures the Democratic nomination.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_says_not_yet_to_releas.html
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Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
89. That Wouldn't Be
...a form of extortion, would it?

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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
90. The smell of money
What stinks is the smell of money and this "former president for sale" syndrome which seems to have become one of the "fringe benefits" of being president. What the Clintons want to change, really, is simply their "earning power." They will have a "two-fer" position in his "wheeling and dealing." A former president with an "in" with the current president. An "in" no other former president has had. Nothing like a little "pillow talk." Especially when the talk turns to how much they both will make.

It denigrates the dignity of the office of the president. This started with Ronald Reagan. But Ronald Reagan restricted himself to book advances and speeches. And avoided the "art of the deal."

But some are blinded. Perhaps by the wealth. Like a lot of Republicans, they hope the "good fortune" rubs off somehow on them.

If Hillary manages to win the nomination and manages to win the presidency and her supporters start wondering "what the hell happened" I will be the first to say "I told you so."

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Didn't she also raise a HUGE amount of money for her 2006 Senate campaign (against a nobody)?
I'm thinking it was 35 million. And very little was transferred to other candidates.

Or am I mistaken?
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. yep, and didn't help the other candidates n/t
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
57. that's misleading. Her PAC contributed to almost every Democratic senatorial candidate in 06
I'm an obama supporter, but its misleading to say clinton didn't help other Democratic candidates in 2006. Hillpac, clinton's political action committee, donated nearly $300,000 directly to other Democratic candidate campaigns, including Lamont, Webb, Sanders (not a Democrat,but caucuses with the D's), and most of the other senate candidates running in 06. Hillpac also gave very substantial contributions to state Democratic party committees and to groups like Emily's list.

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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. She transfered 14 million to her presidential campaign
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 03:05 AM by Big Blue Marble
"In January 2007 Clinton announced that she would forgo public financing for both the primary and general elections due to the spending limits imposed when accepting the federal money. She had $14 million left from her 2006 Senate race, which put her in a good starting position compared to other Democratic candidates. Clinton insiders said the senator's goal is to raise at least $60 million in 2007. Longtime Democratic political and finance leader Terry McAuliffe is Clinton's campaign chair; notable fundraisers such as Vernon E. Jordan, Jr. and Steven Rattner have signed on to her campaign. "Bundlers" who collect more than $100,000 for her campaign become known as "HillRaisers"; she has asked them to raise as much as $1 million each."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2008
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
67. More than that - This article makes it $50 million
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 12:13 PM by karynnj
They say she spent $36 million and had $14 million left, which would lead to an estimate of $50.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/us/politics/21donate.html?scp=9&sq=Clinton+Senate+fund+raising+&st=nyt

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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. you are correct, from the FEC she reported $10 million from previous elections
in her campaign
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. "does not meet the standard of Bush/Cheney" OUCH...
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ouch Ouch Ouch indeed! The article goes on to tie Clinton's
sympathy for the Turks in the dispute over the proper term for the Armenian genocide to contributions she received. Now that's low!
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, if “Clinton Inc.” would release the tax docs....
If not, look forward to DO YOU TRUST HER??? to run 24/7 in the GE if she is the nom.


And this gem:


Now, with Hillary Clinton emulating Rove’s fundraising machine, some campaign reformers wonder if similar favors are in store for her biggest bundlers. Some point out that her level of disclosure of bundlers does not even meet the low standard set by George W. Bush in 2004.

In a letter (PDF) to Clinton, Public Citizen said her campaign “fails to disclose bundlers’ cities and states of residence, how much money they raised other than to note that they have raised at least $100,000, or who they raised their money from.”

Her disclosure “not only fails to set an exemplary standard,” it doesn’t even “live up to the standard of George Bush and Dick Cheney,” the watchdog group said.



Ouch.

I am no fan of Trippi, but if John is going to stay out of the fray -- Joe needs to jump on this one in classic Trippi style. :evilgrin:


.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
82. I'm wondering how much ammo Clinton will give to repugs
Do we want 4 years ( or less) of campaign finance scandal, triangulation, and new bimbo gates to add to the old ones?

Cause we know Bill can't keep it in his pants.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. I bet she'll be sorry he accepted two debates. I'm SURE the release of her tax return will come up
along with these other issues. Obama agreed to HER request of debates so SHE should agree to HIS request of releasing her tax return.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Maybe that's why she's trying to get out of them
Right now, the outstanding question is this: Will Hillary Clinton agree to appear at an upcoming debate on NBC later in February? Earlier today her spokesperson, Howard Wolfson, said her campaign couldn't "envision" participating in any debates on the network for the near future. Later today, an MSNBC spokesperson confirmed that talks are ongoing between the network and the Clinton campaign over whether she'll appear. So the question of whether she'll appear is clearly up in the air.

Shuster has been "temporarily" suspended from the network, according to an MSNBC spokesperson, who added that the duration of his suspension had not yet been determined. An MSNBC production source says that it was only after the Hillary campaign threatened to boycott future debates that Shuster was informed of his suspension.

Will Shuster's suspension be enough to get Hillary to recommit to the debate? Her campaign is refusing to answer questions about whether she'll appear, or what they're asking for in the talks. This suggests that they want to leave the network twisting in the wind on the debate question, perhaps to "work the refs," send a signal to MSNBC and other news outlets about what they will and won't tolerate.

When Camp Hillary signals what they intend to do, we'll let you know. For now the whole situation is in limbo.

more


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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Drama, drama, drama -- just what I look for ini a leader
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Oh, yeah! That's right! I didn't remember her saying that but now that you mention it,
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 09:39 PM by jenmito
it's obvious! That's BS that she wouldn't do the MSNBC because of one guy's comment who is now SUSPENDED after apologizing at LEAST 3 times. I guess she should be careful what she wishes for!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. she wants to be on Faux Noise, not NBC
she feels more at home on Faux Noise.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I should stopped being amazed at the ugly spin.
It saddens me really, that people are so easily jumping in to attack Clinton without even thinking.

She is a Senator whose finances are CONSTANTLY available.

SHUT UP WITH THE LIES AND DISTORTIONS ALREADY.

God, you people.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "She is a Senator whose finances are CONSTANTLY available."
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Can you read? The Clintons have refused to release their tax forms.
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 09:28 PM by Stephanie
I will say it again, slowly. Obama and his wife already released their tax returns. THE CLINTONS REFUSE TO RELEASE THIER TAX RETURNS. Now do you understand?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. What?
What did you say?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I said the emir of Dubai is funding Hillary's campaign!
:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Is it okay
to ask questions about campaign financing? Or is there a dress code between some people's ears?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I've been told it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
But YMMV!
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Iktomiwicasa Donating Member (942 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. All she needs to do
is release her tax returns and put this mess to rest....but she isn't, is she?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. She's going to close her eyes and hold her breath until they give her the nomination
And THEN she promises to disclose her finances.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Then she'll refuse to
claiming she doesn't want to give the Republicans an advantage.

What's Hillary hiding?
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Iktomiwicasa Donating Member (942 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Likely unethical
financial dealings.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
64. Is this a joke?
Releasing tax returns won't be the end of it. It will be the start. Nothing will ever stop the Clinton haters from demanding the Clintons prove their innocence when there isn't even an accusation.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #64
95. All I want is accountability
I already know I can't get it from the Republicans. I'll be damned if I can't hold Democrats to a higher standard.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Now, let's be charitable here. Despite what was said at one of the debates,
it is Hillary Clinton who has a record of misplacing and later finding important documents. Maybe she just forgot where she put her tax return and is too embarrassed to admit it.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. It is Bullshit.
Ask yourself why you are talking about this? You are so fucking easily led by political ploys. "Look this way, no look this way, jump here jump there." "Be outraged by this today."

Obama has you snowed.

This is a NON-STORY.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. No, it's true! n/t
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Hahaha
Yer funny lol.

Seriously why won't she release the records? And what is this "after the nomination" crap?

That doesn't bother you at all? Here you are talking about being snowed.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. See, this is what I mean. You have no idea that her records are public
as she is a Senator, and releases them annually.

And because she is not jumping at every stupid political move that Obama demands--you suggest she is hiding something.

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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
63. Why should the Clintons have to release their tax forms?
She already files financial disclosure statements. This is just another gang style witch hunt that demands the Clintons prove their innocence when there isn't even an accusation. They are wise not to comply.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. If they are so "available", can you produce a link?
All other candidates are publically available.

Is there something to hide? If not -- pony up!
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
94. here's for 2006, should be another one for 2008
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
46. Uh..right
***She is a Senator whose finances are CONSTANTLY available.***

Except her tax returns.:eyes:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. FACTS are the Clintons aren't disclosing who's bundling money for them. Cultist can't handle facts
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. no they are not, she has refused to release her tax info
Clinton and money has always been questionable and they are questions the Clintons refuse to answer.

Blame them.

The Obama's have released their tax info for last year, why won't the Clintons?

If they wanted transparent government they would.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Worth a read and another k&r
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. No mystery here. She and her husband liquidated their stock
portfolio, with, no doubt, major taxable capital gain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/15/politics/main2933206.shtml

CBS/AP) Hoping to avoid any possible conflict of interest, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and her husband, the former president, liquidated a blind trust valued at $5 million to $25 million in April after learning that it included such investments as oil and drug companies and military contractors, her presidential campaign confirmed.
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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. I love it -- 5 to 25 million?
Enron was more accurate than that!
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my3boyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm to the point where I honestly don't care
Let Hillary lie to her supporters. Let her raise "dirty" money. Let her hide her tax returns. Let her skip the debates. People are sick of the same thing over and over again. I honestly believe that the more she does things like this the more desperate she seems. Hopefully, the (not the DU Hillary supporters..they are hopeless to ever see what is wrong with her) average Amercians will see through all of the games and vote for change.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I just hope this gets enough media coverage.
And if it doesn't we must demand it. US citizens deserve to know the truth.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. hilary's book should have been called
"Screwing History" and I don't mean that as in bill's activities.
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
35. This is a non story.
Politicians have done this before Hillary...and they will do it after Hillary...there is nothing illegal or Curious about it.
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magatte Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. But the problem is that she doesn't appear to have 5 million of disposable income to her name..
This is where things get hard to swallow, in conjunction to her refusal to release tax forms...
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. So Obama's book money
was good enough to buy the southside mansion and accompanying lot, but Clintons' book money isn't? I think the Obama camps is just fishing....and...I think this is an attempt to take the focus off of the upcoming trial.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Shrug and excuse it away.....
so that it can come back and kick us in our ass during the General. No thank you. I want to know now, before it is too late. Do I look suicidal to you?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. Is anyone questioning theClintons' affording their Gerogetown and Chappaqua homes?
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
72. Thank you, Obama tax return shows his books profits, combined with his wifes
income they made $1 million last year

Why can't the Clintons be so open? They didn't have $5 million of personal assets. If the money came from Bill's Dubai dealings it is ILLEGAL.

If you like the secrecy of the Bush administration then the Clintons secrecy won't bother you a bit. But smart people that want just a bit of honesty in their candidate will not vote for more of the Clinton BS.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
65. The Clintons have $30 million. n/t
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #65
87. That's not germain.
From the OP:

The legal significance of Hillary Clinton’s assertion that the $5 million loan came from her portion of the couple’s wealth relates to the political sensitivity – and questionable legality – of a husband or wife financing the campaign of a spouse. Federal law only allows the candidate to make unlimited contributions to his or her own campaign.

For instance, when Sen. John Kerry arranged a $6.4 million loan to keep his 2004 campaign afloat, he used his Boston townhouse as collateral, rather than count on help from his multi-millionaire wife, Theresa Heinz Kerry.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
41. All this so she could pre-empt "The Mind of Manson" on MSNBC?
Oh the irony.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
42. See, this is the problem! McCain and his "reformer with results" is going to take this story
and run with it. McCain running against the Clintons and their scandals would sink the GE for us.

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
43. You Obama supporters sure are getting desperate
Now you're upset that Hillary made money from her books, and hasn't filed her taxes at YOUR command?

Next you're going to try to tell us that she has a cousin who is a confirmed thespian and an uncle who is a card-carrying columnist.

--p!
Taxes for 2007 are due an April 15, 2008
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Why don't you provide some facts to dispute that the Clinton's shady deals will
not kill the Dem's chances to take back the White House during the GE, against McCain Ethics grandstanding?

These stories are out there, are important, and need to be answered truthfully. In otherwords, she needs to come clean and transparent.

This is not going away.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. why don't you shove this shit right back up where it came from
what a pitiful joke of a campaign.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
73. yep, shove it right back at the Clintons and say ENOUGH, you will NOT be POTUS
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. Come clean?
Come clean about what? This is a smear job disguised as an inquiry.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
59. We are talking about 2006 tax records. And candidate Bill Clinton didn't release his either
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
45. Interesting, from NYT link in OP article:
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 08:18 AM by ProSense
The New York Times has compiled the first comprehensive list of 97 donors who gave or pledged a total of $69 million for the Clinton presidential library in the final years of the Clinton administration. The examination found that while some $1 million contributors were longtime Clinton friends, others were seeking policy changes from the administration. Two pledged $1 million each while they or their companies were under investigation by the Justice Department.

Other donations came from supporters who had been ensnared in campaign finance scandals surrounding Mr. Clinton’s 1996 re-election campaign.

In raising record sums for her campaign, Mrs. Clinton has tapped many of the foundation’s donors. At least two dozen have become “Hillraisers,” each bundling $100,000 or more for her presidential bid. The early library donors, combined with their families and political action committees, have contributed at least $784,000 to Mrs. Clinton’s Senate and presidential coffers.

The foundation and Mrs. Clinton’s political campaigns have been intertwined in other ways. Terry McAuliffe, who led the foundation’s fund-raising and sits on its board, is now Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman and chief fund-raiser. Cheryl Mills plays a similar dual role, sitting on the foundation board and serving as the general counsel to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. And Jay Carson recently traded a communications position at the foundation for a job as her campaign’s press secretary.

As the scope of the foundation expanded from the Clinton library into issues like treating AIDS in the developing world and addressing global poverty and climate change, and Mrs. Clinton moved closer to announcing her candidacy, the pace of giving quickened. Last year, contributions reached $135 million, a 70 percent increase over the previous year. Two-thirds came from just 11 donors.

The $31.3 million donation, which was previously undisclosed, came from the Radcliffe Foundation run by Frank Giustra, a Canadian who has made millions financing mining deals around the world. Mr. Giustra has become a member of Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, joining him on global trips and lending him the use of his private MD-87 jet.

For weeks, Clinton Foundation officials had suggested that the $31.3 million contribution listed on its tax return did not come from a single donor.
They then said it came from a single source, but declined to identify it. Wednesday afternoon, a representative of Mr. Giustra contacted The Times and acknowledged the Radcliffe contribution.

more




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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. are you people desperate or what?
Obama and his supporters must really be worried Hillary will catch up to pull this old Nixonian ploy of demanding tax returns. And, the author of this hit piece has NOTHING. But, you folks keep at this. Hillary is speaking to the issues and concerns that folks actually have an interest in. This innuendo attack is for bitter losers.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. No, but you are! n/t
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
74. Interesting comparison Clinton is more like NIxon than any other candidate
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Great, $31 million from a global strip miner.
I bet that'll really work out well for the chil'ren.
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. hmm..global strip miner
Hey i bet all those barren strip mines will warm up the planet real nice!:hide:
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
51. So the Clinton campaign having a sound financial basis is worrisome to Obama?
That Republican commentator Judge Napolitano said on Fox cable that there was nothing illegal regarding the "loan" - that probably never happened. anyway.

As soon as the Clinton faithful heard about the cash crunch out came 10 million bucks from her supporters. Maybe more.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Pay-to-play millions from predatory transnational corporations are worrisome,
yes.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #51
61. I read throught these posts...
again, and I don't see anything that equates to a "sound" financial basis.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. So you imply that she lied to get donations...and you support this kind of candidate
no wonder the Dems loose.

And the question is WHERE did the $5 million come from.

Nice that you support a blatant liar and manipulator. The last thing this country needs.

McCain, who lead campaign finance reform will blow her out of the park on this one issue alone, as well he should. And America will vote for him.

Happy now?
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. You ain't listening: there was nothing illegal about a loan she never took out....
A Republican commentator who was a judge said there was nothing illegal about the loan that never happened on Fox.

Again. why is Hillary Clinton having funds to pursue the campaign so worrisome to you and others here?
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I saw the show you are referring to, he didn't say it never happened
he said it is fine for them to make the donation, nothing illegal there.

YOU are saying it never took place, HILLARY said she made the loan. so YOU are calling HILLARY a LIAR.

and you expect ppl to vote for her? NO WAY
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. My sentence construct was unclear. He said it was perfectly legal.
I said it never happened because her rank and file supporters came through. As they always do, especially at the polls.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
84. She lied to get money -- and you are ok with this?
:wow:
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
52. Bazeball haz been very good to me
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
56. remove all skeletons before the General election for the party's sake
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
60. If you ask questions about her campaign financing you're a misogynist n/t
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
62. All these shady money sources, and she still had to beg for money last night in Washington?
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 11:23 AM by milkyway
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/08/649888.aspx

CLINTON APPEALS TO VOTERS FOR CASH

TACOMA, WA -- Hillary Clinton made a financial appeal to voters at a large rally at the University of Puget Sound, just days after announcing she had loaned her campaign $5 million at the end of January.

The New York senator said that after the announcement, a friend had been surprised that she needed the money. "As some of you may have heard, I recently loaned my campaign some money because I intended to be competitive going into Super Tuesday, and I think it turned out to be a good investment with all those victories across the country. And when a friend of mine heard that I had had loaned my campaign some money she said 'Well, why didn't you tell me you needed help and of course we'll be there for you?' Well, I have been overwhelmed by the response that I've received over the last three days," Clinton said, before sharing stories of some of the 75,000 new contributors who have donated to her campaign in the last few days, including a woman who said she wanted to contribute to the campaign rather than go out for Valentine's Day.

"So I hope you will go to hillaryclinton.com read about the issues, read about what I've done for 35 years, and you will help support this campaign," the senator said.

The direct appeal to voters for money -– the first this reporter has heard at such an event –- came after a conference call in which her campaign announced they had raised $8 million online since the close of polls in California on Tuesday.

<snip>


__________

My God, this is the person we want managing our economy? She's pissed away all the cash her influence-peddling husband brought into the campaign, and now she's asking her see-no-evil cult followers to pony up some more?

"That web site again is www.hillaryclinton.com. Now you were saying, Wolf?"
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
68. Clinton tapped out her "big' donors and is now reaching the small donors that weren't even in play.
Count your blessings. I think that if she'd disclosed the 5M loan before Super Tuesday it would have brought droves of sympathy votes.
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WilyWondr Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
78. The Clinton Technique
The release of candidates' tax forms has become common practice in presidential campaigns since the Watergate era of the early '70s.

Since 1984, only one major-party presidential candidate -- Bill Clinton in 1992 -- has refused to release the tax forms he sent to the Internal Revenue Service.

In 1996, Clinton did release his forms, and Republican nominee Bob Dole released his tax returns going back 30 years.

Candidates, including 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004, and Democratic vice presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, were criticized for not releasing their spouses' returns but offered no resistance to releasing their own.


Did she really think no one would bring this up when she gives herself a $5 million loan and asks people to donate?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
80. Once again, defamation by vapor
No evidence.

No laws broken.

No improprieties.

Nothing hidden.

Only the ususal bullshit from the radical-chic:

Endless demands for information NOW.

"Show me a link!"; "Show me another!"

Slanderous gossip gussied up as academic investigative journalism.

"Everybody Knows" pseudo-evidence.

Hypocritical outrage.

Lazy research.

Ideological culture warriors posing as "objective" observers.

Hipsters acting like the left-wing version of Moral Majority.

Why does Barack Obama condone this kind of slime?

--p!
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. if nothing is hidden, then where are her tax returns or Bill's donor list
or her records from the 90's

They are all being hidden. Why is that?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
83. This is pretty funny considering who Obama got a lot of his money from.
Hypocrisy thy name is Obamite!
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Where is the hypocrisy? I sure don't see it.
We know where Obama money comes from.

We don't know where Clinton money comes from.

What is hypocritical about that?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. You don't know where Obama money comes from? Try Walmart for
starters. Wifey earned a lot of money from those ties. It was family income, no? Isn't that a lot of how you tar Hillary, by her ties to Bill?

And wait, what do you mean you don't know where Obama's money comes from? He's making a big deal out of this by saying he's been completely open about his money? Are you saying he isn't?

Obamites are so much fun.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. Why do I even try?
It's obvious now that you don't know what the word even means.

Let's try again, this time we'll use the definition to help illustrate the riddle in your arguments.

From Wiki: Hypocrisy (or being a hypocrite) is the act of pretending to oppose a belief or behaviour while holding the same beliefs or behaviours at the same time.

Now once again,

we know where Obama money comes from,

we don't know where Clinton money comes from,

where is the hypocrisy?

Also, unless Hillary discloses here finances, we won't know that she kept any of her Wal-Mart earnings, will we? She could have lost it all on Enron. Right?




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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. Oh, I understand the word. Perfectly. And the hypocrisy is that you people
only want to see her finances right now so you can say see, our boy and his wife aren't the only ones who take money from (fill in the blank here). It's not to prove what a decent, honest, pure as the driven snow candidate you've got on your hands. It's to play 'gotcha'.

And THAT is where the hypocrisy comes in. There's no reason for Hillary to be forced into doing anything right now. Why should she give in to that type of shit?
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. you people?


x(

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. It isn't hypocritical to ask that both candidates be vetted.
That includes a look at their finances.

If any hypocrisy exists on this issue, it would be requesting Bush/Cheny to produce this information but not Clinton.

That would be hypocritical. Just tryin' to help you overcome your language barrier.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #100
102. They do get vetted. They win the nomination, they get vetted. Obamites
are just being pissy.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Or, like in this case, they don't.
Maybe because they are refusing to release their tax returns.
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marcellobarrios Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
88. The Wall Street Journal also said the Clintons killed Vince Foster
Isn't it funny how some Obama supporters are browsing through conservatives Ruper Murdoch-owned publication to spread Whitewater-like accusations?
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Not just the Wall Street Journal...
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 03:44 PM by Baby Snooks
It is one of the many questions that have tainted the Clintons. And there will always be a question about Vince Foster.

I believe they are both capable of murder and equally capable of having it covered up. Just as the Bushes are.

And how many photos do we have at this point of the Clintons and the Bushes? One big happy family?

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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Wow. DU just swirled all the way down the toilet with that post.
"...there will always be a question about Vince Foster.

I believe they are both capable of murder and equally capable of having it covered up..."


I don't know of anyplace on the web where it's possible to get more negativity about Democrats than Democratic Underground.

Seriously. This place is THE source for anti-Dem garbage. One-stop-shopping, new products arriving daily hourly.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #88
101. Why should that bother Hillary, the Clintons are friends
with Richard Mellon Scaife and Murdoch.

Besides, this OP has nothing to do with WSJ.


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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
93. Multi level fun raising ...

All this multi level fund raising seems similar to the mob strategy of racketeering. The candidate is the boss, and bundlers become cappos. No doubt the people giving money to the cappos are the soldiers shaking down their employees and associates for contributions in return for continued business.

I don't like it one bit whether it's done by the Clinton's or the Bush's. Frankly, all this political nepotism is getting to me. I really just wish the Bush's, Clintons and Kennedys would just go away.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
99. I thought they all were supposed to all release their tax returns.
Does she have something to hide?
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