I hate the DLC. Hate Carville and McAuliffe. And I support Hillary now, here's why.

[PresidentObama]

I think first of all, she's one tough cookie.

I'm worried about the Republican attack machine as much as the next guy, but she's got me convinced she can take them on and prevent them from swiftboating her. And she's got a powerful machine of a campaign that when hit, will hit back harder and faster. And more effectively.

I think if it's her versus John McCain, she'll blow him away.

Seriously. She wants to end the war in Iraq, and he wants it to continue for 100 years.

She's got the debating abilities and toughness to combat any attacks they throw at her, and I'm sure we'll hear everything. When it comes to issues, McCain knows them all very well. And she's the best candidate right now to debate McCain on the issues and provide solutions and substance on moving our nation forward.

I really love the fact she's talking a lot and in detail about the issues, and offering specific and I think wonderful solutions to many of the complex issues facing our nation.

Her healthcare plan, much like John Edwards, is exactly what the doctor ordered for our dysfunctional healthcare system. I hope she can get it done in her first term, though she's only committed to do it by the end of her second. I think she's got the fight and backbone to stand up to the Republicans, and get real universal healthcare passed for every man and woman in this country.

And while I may disagree with her on many things, I think Hillary Clinton has both the experience and the vision to take this country forward--and not backward. And move us from deficit to surplus, from hated around the world to admired, from a healthcare system that doesn't work to one that helps all Americans, from $100 oil to on the path to energy independence, and from war to peace.

I respect Senator Obama. And if he's the nominee, he's got my vote. And I certainly will not have to pinch my nose.

He's right: Yes, we can!

Doesn't matter if it's Hillary or Obama, we sure can!

And we sure will!

Si Se Puede is right.

Hillary 2008!

[AndyA]

1. I'm not for Hillary or Barack right now. I'm having a difficult time deciding.

But one of the things I do see that Hillary has going for her is that she's been investigated, attacked by the GOP spin machine, and more for a long time now. And she's somehow survived it.

Yes, I think she will be able to take what they dish out and throw it back at them.

I also realize if Hillary is the Dem nominee, she'll need to be able to withstand everything they throw at her, and get the Dem vote out, because if Hillary's on the ticket, the GOPers will vote for anything to keep "that woman" out of the White House.

I'm not convinced Barack will be able to endure the GOP attack machine, as he hasn't handled several recent issues very adeptly, in my opinion.

[PresidentObama]

2. Hillary is tough. I think she's got the fight to stand up to the pack of liars on the right.

Think about her on stage against McCain.

It'd be like Kerry vs. Bush debates all over again.

She's cream him, and wouldn't let him swiftboat her.

[BeyondGeography]

7. "It'd be like Kerry vs. Bush debates all over again."

Just remember, if the Democratic Party has proven anything over the years, it's that we're great at fielding candidates who can win debates and lose elections. The smartest kids in the class have lost seven of the last ten elections.

Also, when the tough cookie releases her tax returns and hubby discloses the identity of all of his foundation donors and as well as the source of his finances, they will begin to be fully vetted, not before.

[blm]

65. How long did the "Clintons trashed the WH' lie last in the media?

How long did 'Clinton ignored terrorism' issue last in the media?

[scheming daemons]

3. If you really hated the DLC, you couldn't vote for Hillary...

Hillary *IS* the DLC.


That's like saying that you really hate the Patriots, but you want that Brady guy to win.

[PresidentObama]

6. I love the Patriots, but I wanted the Giants to win ;)

Underdogs are appealing to me.

[scheming daemons]

10. If underdogs appeal to you, why go with the Clinton machine?

....they're far from being underdogs.

[PresidentObama]

13. I was talking about football. Sports and politics are two different arenas.

[incapsulated]

9. No, it's called being a grown up

Real politics isn't for purists, it's not religion.

I agree with much of what he said.

To me, she is the best candidate running and has the best chance to get things done in the White House.

When we are voting for Perfect Fantasy Liberal Democrat President, she won't be on my top ten.

[scheming daemons]

14. Then don't complain when all the cabinet positions are filled with DLC slime...

....or that we get conservative-ish judges....


If you vote for Hillary, you are voting to put the DLC into ALL the seats of power.

Sorry... they're no better than the Repukes.

[incapsulated]

21. If you honestly believe they are no better than the repukes

Then I suggest that you do some research and come back and tell me when the DLC shredded the constitution, put people in secret prisons, wiretapped our phonelines, put us into trillions of dollars in debt, got us despised around the world and gave the President the powers usually held by absolute fascist regimes.

[nonconformist]

66. Obama has said he'd consider REPUBLICANS in his cabinet.

How's that?

[abburdlen]

72. didn't Edwards say the same thing?

oh yeah, he did.

Edwards promises to name Republicans to his Cabinet

Waterloo, Ia. - John Edwards vowed Monday to include Republicans in his Cabinet if he's elected president.

"Here's why: because I'm looking for the strongest, most capable, most independent-minded people I can find. I want people around me who will say, 'You're wrong about this, and you could do grave damage if you do it. Mr. President, you need to change your mind,' " he said. "Because I'm not perfect, I'm capable of making mistakes."

This isn't a knock against Edwards. It's a knock against folks with double standards.

[nonconformist]

73. No double standard, except on the other end.

I'm not the one screaming for purity. I'm too rational and realistic for that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Applause for a POSITIVE post!

Thanks for the information on the war--another thread talked about how regular folks, in a poll, said that if we got out of Iraq, it would stop the recession, or at least help a lot more than the few bucks Bush is willing to throw our way. So it will be a hot-button issue.

I am concerned about her health care plan (as well as Obama's) in that both still allow private insurers to have their fingers in the health care pie. I'm for single payer not only from a patient viewpoint but from a doctor's viewpoint. I'm not an MD, but I am on the Board of a non-profit health education foundation that has a demonstration clinic (preventative care, a holistic approach to chronic care, etc). The thing that drives our staff nuts is having to fill out different forms for different insurance providers (some of which won't pay because, although we have an MD, she is using holistic techniques that they say are "experimental" even though they have studies to show they work). Can you tell me if the Clinton plan will address the issue of multiple types of forms to be filled out and the issue of utilizing holistic medicine?

[ProSense]

5. You support Hillary, but you hate her:

From left to right: Harold Ford, Jr. is chairman of the DLC. U.S. Sen. Tom Carper is vice chair of the DLC; U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is chair of the DLC's American Dream Initiative; Al From is founder and CEO of the DLC. (Not pictured: Bruce Reed is DLC president; Pennsylvania State Representative Jennifer Mann is chair of the DLC's State Legislative Advisory Board (SLAB); Columbus (OH) Mayor Michael Coleman is chair of the DLC's Local Elected Officials Network(LEON).)

link

[PresidentObama]

8. Hey ProSense, wasn't John Kerry a member of the DLC?

Since we both love and admire Senator Kerry.

Got hypocrisy?

[ProSense]

12. No! n/t

[PresidentObama]

15. Here's an article from Senator Kerry on the DLC website. Five second research found it.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=107&subid=294&contentid=2731

[ProSense]

17. He wrote articles reaching out to a lot of constituencies! n/t

[PresidentObama]

26. Really? He's showing up on the DLC membership list:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/27/55951/1586

[ProSense]

30. Bogus! n/t

[PresidentObama]

31. How so? Explain, provide proof. Do something. Here, he keynoted the DLC in 2004 too:

http://www.co.cochise.az.us/PressReleases/Newman%20to%20Represent%20County%20at%20DLC%20Conference%20050504.htm

[ProSense]

34. Invited to make a speech doesn't make you a member of a group. n/t

[karynnj]

69. They asked him to - he was already the nominee

He needed to reach out to all parts of the party. Look at the speech - it does not say anything like "fellow members" or speak of how the DLC had been an important part of his time in the Senate - all things a person belonging to a group speaking shortly after he got the nomination would say.

[PresidentObama]

33. DLC even shows up on his website:

http://kerry.senate.gov/text/cfm/record.cfm?id=181571

[ProSense]

36. That's a press release about being invited to make a speech. n/t

[karynnj]

40. Read the article

He joined in a press conference to tout the fact that Massachusetts scored the highest on the technology. It doesn't say he is in the DLC - though it labels from and Leiberman.

"Kerry Joins DLC to Tout Pro-growth Policy for Information Age Marketplace

PPI Report Announces Massachusetts Leads the Nation in Preparedness for the New "High Tech" Economy

Thursday, July 22, 1999

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Senator John Kerry (D-MA) today joined Democratic Leadership Council president Al From and DLC Chairman Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) at the National Press Club to release a new report that assesses the strength of the 50 state economies in relation to the new economy. Massachusetts ranked number one in the study for overall preparedness in the technology-driven New Economy. "

Here's how they label Kerry.

"Senator Kerry is the a member of the Senate Commerce Committee on Telecommunications and Technology and the ranking member of the Senate Small Business Committee. In addition, Kerry launched and is co-chairman of the Senate Democratic High-Tech Outreach Initiative."

[karynnj]

68. That list is more than 2 years old

It was a cut and paste into the May 2006 post - and was done because they had no list on line. The fact is that Kerry did not attend the 2005 or 2006 forum where all the DLC spoke and From did not list him when he listed Bayh, Warner and Vilsack in addition to HRC as potential DLC nominees. (Kerry was outpolling 3 of them.)

[ProSense]

20. Note:

The Boston Globe | Editorial | August 5, 1999


The DLC are bloodsuckers!

[Dogmudgeon]

18. Kerry was in the DLC. And Al From anointed Barack Obama.

Now go post your "7.3 million" article again.

--p!

[ProSense]

22. Ah, here come the Hillaryites with the "they did it too" bogus arguments. Hillary is the DLC. n/t

[incapsulated]

24. So. Was. Kerry.

Honestly, listening to this Kucinich-like purity test bullshit from a Kerry supporter is rich, I tells ya.

[ProSense]

27. No he wasn't. Stick with the facts. Hillary is the DLC. n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

35. John Kerry, DLC member

Time to face facts. Kerry is and has been a DLC member.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=115&subid=145&contentid=252535">The horse's mouth.

http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/">NNDB New Democrats.

--p!

[incapsulated]

37. And here...

From 2004, they got the info from the DLC website back then.

I don't know if he is still DLC but he sure as shit *was*.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/John_Kerry_Principles_+_Values.htm

[ProSense]

38. Obama purposefully asked that his name be removed, you will never validate Kerry as DLC

Others have tried using their bogus listings, but you will never validate Kerry as DLC:



Never!

[incapsulated]

39. HE SIGNED THE FUCKING HYDE PARK MANIFESTO

For the love of god, give it UP.



Supports Hyde Park Declaration of "Third Way" centrism.

Kerry signed the manifesto, "A New Politics for a New America":

As New Democrats, we believe in a Third Way that rejects the old left-right debate and affirms America’s basic bargain: opportunity for all, responsibility from all, and community of all.

* We believe:that government’s proper role in the New Economy is to equip working Americans with new tools for economic success and security.
* in expanding trade and investment because we must be a party of economic progress, not economic reaction.
* that fiscal discipline is fundamental to sustained economic growth as well as responsible government.
* that a progressive tax system is the only fair way to pay for government.
* the Democratic Party’s mission is to expand opportunity, not government.
* that education must be America’s great equalizer, and we will not abandon our public schools or tolerate their failure.
* that all Americans must have access to health insurance.
* in preventing crime and punishing criminals.
* in a new social compact that requires and rewards work in exchange for public assistance and that ensures that no family with a full-time worker will live in poverty.
* that public policies should reinforce marriage, promote family, demand parental responsibility, and discourage out-of-wedlock births.
* in enhancing the role that civic entrepreneurs, voluntary groups, and religious institutions play in tackling America’s social ills.
* in strengthening environmental protection by giving communities the flexibility to tackle new challenges that cannot be solved with top-down mandates.
* government must combat discrimination on the basis of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation; defend civil liberties; and stay out of our private lives.
* that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.
* in progressive internationalism -- the bold exercise of US leadership to foster peace, prosperity, and democracy.
* that the US must maintain a strong, technologically superior defense to protect our interests and values.
Source: The Hyde Park Declaration 00-DLC0 on Aug 1, 2000

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=128&subid=174&contentid=1926


Signatories include:

John F. Kerry, United States Senator, Massachusetts

[ProSense]

42. And that still doesn't

make him a member

[incapsulated]

46. wtf??

What is this rubbish you are linking to on DU?

WHY WOULD KERRY SIGN THE DLC MANIFESTO?

[ProSense]

50. Never a member! n/t

[incapsulated]

57. He signs their manifesto, speaks at their conventions, is LISTED

As a member in 2000 but he wasn't.

In your mind, wherever that may be.

[ProSense]

60. You got it! n/t

[ProSense]

44. What is a fact is that Hillary is DLC. Period! n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

47. And so is JOHN KERRY -- exclamation point.

--p!

[ProSense]

52. Got a current link? n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

56. John Kerry -- DLC member

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4483628#4484263">John Kerry -- DLC member.

--p!

[ProSense]

62. You're giving me 2004 links of the DLC trying to hitch themselves to Kerry's bandwagon? n/t

[ProSense]

58. Another thing: Hillary, not Obama, is DLC. n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

43. DLC isn't a position, it's a membership

Do you think you can use "DLC" as an adjective like "conservative" or "orange" or "hypertensive"?

John Kerry is a member of the Democratic Leadership Council -- the DLC.

--p!

[ProSense]

45. .

[Dogmudgeon]

51. You have a second problem: I do not fear the DLC.

And John Kerry is a member of the DLC.

--p!

[ProSense]

54. Got current proof? Voting positions, agreements, photo, current links on their site?

[Dogmudgeon]

61. Yep

But since you are so prolific with research, why don't YOU do your own work?

--p!

[karynnj]

63. Kerry has gone to none of the DLC's forums since 2004

Someone (Little Clarkie ?) called his office the last time this came up and was told he was not. In addition, when he was likely running in 2006, From listed the possible DLC candidates as HRC, Vilsack, Warner and Bayh - Kerry was out poling 3 of them and was not listed.

I agree that at one time he had some fleeting involvement. He was never in their leadership and seemed involved only on technology issues. It seems like he was simply trying to work with everybody.

[Dogmudgeon]

29. You learned a new ironic twist! How good for you!

Maybe you'll start posting "Hillary has a Cult" soon, too.

--p!

[karynnj]

53. Al From in 2006, when it was likely that Kerry and Obama could run, identified the potential DLC

candidates as HRC, Vilsack, Bayh and Warner. No Obama, no Kerry


Kerry had some involvement, I think in the early 2000s - but he was never in their leadership and his voting record was always out of line. (Some of the people in the DLC when it formed were Senator Wirth and Gary Hart - who were closer to Kerry.)

[Bread and Circus]

11. How can you love hate the DLC but love Hillary when she is one of their current leaders?

How can you admire Hillary's campaign skills but feel it necessary to co-opt Obama's Slogan?
How can you think Clinton is more electable when all available evidence (aside from your spin) indicates otherwise?
How can you say you know what Clinton wants to do in Iraq with her fairly hawkish record (see www.fpif.org search hillary clinton)?
How can you seem to hate all that she apparently stands for (DLC) and stands with (McAuliffe, Carville) but still be so excited to
vote for her?
How can you say her plan is just what the doctor ordered when the doctors are ordering something else (aka HR676 aka John Conyer's plan, see www.pnhp.org)?
How can you even remotely say she is for true universal health care when she worked to prevent in in 1993 (see Navarro's review of her plan (see www.counterpunch.org)?

[Zodiak]

28. Good questions all

I hope you get answers to them. Yesterday, some DU told me that he/she was an ex-Kucinich supporter and was gong for Hillary, and I was thinking "you know, the New Democrats are trying to unseat Kucinich in his own district"

My guess that that they do not know truly what the DLC is...they just don't like it because so many other DUers don't like it. If they only did their homework on this organization, we wouldn;t even be having primary wars here.

[Bread and Circus]

55. Exactly. I think people would be shocked if they read more than just the "in your face" spin.

[Zodiak]

70. It took me two years of homework to know for sure

But it makes me immune to the spin and the insults.

The DLC are not our friends...they are a mole organization designed for the express purpose of cutting the American people out of the electoral process, and therefore, out of the body politic. Our government does not work for us because of collusion between the DLC and the neocons. It doesn't matter which party wins as long as 70% of the reps are from the corporate party.

That is why I rail against the DLC so much....with them in the game, the people will never have a voice. If you elect generic "Democrats" unthinkingly, the DLC will make sure those Democrats are one of theirs through corporate patronage and the funneling of campaign funds and media cooperation. If one elects Democrats that pass the stink test, we might actually get something done in this country instead of twiddling our thumbs wondering why our reps do not represent us.

[fenriswolf]

16. You hate the DLC but love hillary. hypocrite.

[blm]

19. She had a 40 point lead and blew it because of her campaign choices.

That is not the stewardship needed nor is the consistent deceit of the Clintons against other Dems good leadership.

It's been noted by a historian:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

It's been WITNESSED by a reporter:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


It's been displayed openly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg



I don't believe Closed government has been good for this nation and am surprised that any Democrats supports its continuation.
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[Dogmudgeon]

23. None of which support your "theory"

More innuendo and insinuation.

That's all you've got. That's all any Clinton-hater's got.

--p!

[blm]

41. You closed government supporters are sad. And your lack of concern for this nation's

openness has led to everything tragic that has occurred over the decades.

[jsamuel]

25. I support Edwards, but I will take Clinton over Obama. I don't like the DLC either.

In fact, two years ago, I said I would hate to have Clinton as president, but she has changed a little and I really don't want Obama.

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Her healthcare plan is what her CEO donors ordered

Obama's sucks too but it least it's not mandatory.

[Neo-wobbly]

49. exactl n/t

[avrdream]

64. If you researched just a LITTLE bit beyond the talking points,

you would know that the mandates are what will make her plan work. If mandated, wouldn't you pick the government option.....the one that allows you in no matter what your income is but gives you the same coverage as members of Congress. Read her fucking plan and what the researchers behind it have said before you get all huffy about mandates.

[Jed Dilligan]

67. Sorry, not buying

I've talked it out with more respectful posters on your side, and they can't convince me it'll be anything but a raw deal. Hillary only thinks about the hump in the statistical middle when she creates "universal" policies. Bzzzt: rejected. Next?

[stimbox]

48. Here's a similar discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4465502

[Armstead]

59. Sorry but respectfully and strongly disagree

The presidential nominee is not just the candidate. S/he will be the defacto head of the party for the next four to eight years.

That means their supporters, friends, cronies will be the ones in charge and setting the direction for the entire party, both in broad and specific terms.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THE DLC HAVE FOUR TO EIGHT YEARS IN THE DRIVERS SEAT TO ENTRENCH THEMSELVES,AND CASTRATE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, CONTINUE TO SELL OUT ITS SOUL AND FURTHER MARGINALIZE LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES.

That is a potential disaster both for Democrats and the nation.

[Individualist]

71. That makes as much sense as someone saying he hates killing but supports war.