Obama repeatedly plagiarizes

[LadyVT]

He should know better as a University lecturer--you can lose your job over that! Besides, of course, it's illegal...

An example: "We are the Ones We've Been Waiting For" is not Barack's phrase. It's a quote from The Elders Oraibi of the Arizona Hopi Nation. You can buy a card with that quote on it (and who really said it, of course) on a postcard in Santa Fe, NM. Does Obama acknowledge the authors in his speech? ("As the Elders of the Hopi Nation said...") No. Never. He appropriates their wisdom, as if he came up with the words of Wise Elders himself! And then there's "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." That, of course, was spoken by Albert Einstein. Has Obama ever credited him? No. Never. Does Obama so grandiose as to feel he is entitled to appropriate the words of the wisest individuals in history, and present those words as if they were his own?

Just two examples. Next time he gives a speech, there will be more. Check them out.

[baldguy]

1. .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Zueda]

2. And don't forget the Kindergarten papers!

[grassfed]

30. DU's becoming a kindergarten

Truly asinine opening post. No offense but shit.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

50. Audacity of hope was not even original, Reverend Jerimiah Wright said it first, controversial guy!

[CatnHat]

56. That correct

Well known fact. Thanks for bringing that up.:wow:

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Dead wrong!!!!!

Hillary plagiarizes.

Obama borrows.

--p!

[Windy]

4. People use quotes in speeches all the time!

So has your candidate. What's next with you people?

[LadyVT]

7. Examples?

[Dr Fate]

17. O shit-check it out- I'll bet has quoted Shakeseare too! We are throught the looking glass, people!!

http://www.mines.edu/~jamcneil/levinquote.html

If you cannot understand my argument, and declare ``It's Greek to me'', you are quoting Shakespeare; if you claim to be more sinned against than sinning, you are quoting Shakespeare; if you recall your salad days, you are quoting Shakespeare; if you act more in sorrow than in anger; if your wish is farther to the thought; if your lost property has vanished into thin air, you are quoting Shakespeare; if you have ever refused to budge an inch or suffered from green-eyed jealousy, if you have played fast and loose, if you have been tongue-tied, a tower of strength, hoodwinked or in a pickle, if you have knitted your brows, made a virtue of necessity, insisted on fair play, slept not one wink, stood on ceremony, danced attendance (on your lord and master), laughed yourself into stitches, had short shrift, cold comfort or too much of a good thing, if you have seen better days or lived in a fool's paradise -why, be that as it may, the more fool you , for it is a foregone conclusion that you are (as good luck would have it) quoting Shakespeare; if you think it is early days and clear out bag and baggage, if you think it is high time and that that is the long and short of it, if you believe that the game is up and that truth will out even if it involves your own flesh and blood, if you lie low till the crack of doom because you suspect foul play, if you have your teeth set on edge (at one fell swoop) without rhyme or reason, then - to give the devil his due - if the truth were known (for surely you have a tongue in your head) you are quoting Shakespeare; even if you bid me good riddance and send me packing, if you wish I was dead as a door-nail, if you think I am an eyesore, a laughing stock, the devil incarnate, a stony-hearted villain, bloody-minded or a blinking idiot, then - by Jove! O Lord! Tut tut! For goodness' sake! What the dickens! But me no buts! - it is all one to me, for you are quoting Shakespeare.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I bet he has some overdue library books, too.

And I heard he ripped the tags off his mattress.

[Levgreee]

6. Those are very generic sentences

two people could easily come up and use them independently

[LadyVT]

11. Plagiarism is plagiarism

As a University professor, I can tell you straight up that if a student used either one of those lines in a paper or presentation without citing the source, they'd fail the course--AT LEAST--and immediately.

[Mass]

16. None of them said that - They said something equivalent in their own language.

He should credit the translators.

[Muttocracy]

32. hmmm, not my experience teaching college students who cheat... n/t

[BenDavid]

54. you are so right.....ask joe biden about plagiarism....

[Iris]

73. It's the title of an Alice Walker book.

It's not like the Hopis and Obama both thought it up around the same time, either.

[Dr Fate]

8. Obama uses quotes & sayings? GASP!

Wow-Clearly unpresidential. <Dripping Sarcasm Thingy>

[LadyVT]

15. It's fine to use quotes

as long as you attribute the quote to the one who originally produced it. Of course politicians do that.

[Dr Fate]

21. Nah- read posts #10 & #19. The Kennedy's quoted people-everyone does it.

"Come on- EVERYONE is doing it!!!"

Now tell me who said that.

[Rosemary2205]

9. Quit casting asparagus.

[Drunken Irishman]

10. I have a question for you.

Did you know John Kennedy didn't originally say "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"?

The derivation of the quote goes back to the 1940s and Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who once said: "It is now the moment when by common consent we pause to become conscious of our national life and to rejoice in it, to recall what our country has done for each of us, and to ask ourselves what we can do for our country in return."

Damn that Kennedy!

[LadyVT]

18. YES! And he was absolutely wrong not to attribute the quote.

[Drunken Irishman]

20. I hate to tell ya', but EVERY president does it.

So if you're going to attack Obama, you've got to attack every president, because they all lift and borrow sayings every time they speak.

[LadyVT]

23. Great! I will accuse them when they plagiarize, too.

[Dr Fate]

28. I think it needs to be a full blown crusade. Do I see a negative ad in the works?

(Que up "haunted house" negative ad music)

Concerned, Deep Voice: "Did you know that Obama quotes figures from history and uses sayings originated by people OTHER THAN HIMSELF?"



On second thought...

[onenote]

67. do you think his use without attribution should have disqualified him to be president?

If there ever was a "so what" argument, this would be it.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Another common myth: Robert Kennedy came up with the "Why not?" quote.

In fact, RFK wasn't the first, nor the last, to utter that saying.

The quote goes back to George Bernard Shaw, who said: Some men see things as they are and say 'Why?' I dream things that never were and say, 'Why not?'"

Stupid Kennedy's.

[Mass]

12. So, are you also going to sue Jim Wallis, the Black Aids institute, and others who used this

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_archives&mode=current_opinion&article=CO_040616_wallis

http://www.blackaids.org/

This is getting extremely silly. Ridiculous.


I forgot Alice Walker too.
http://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/wearetheones.html

[tabatha]

nit picking

"doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - is a standard phrase used my many, many people - and I have never heard anyone attributing it to Einstein. It is a common phrase used every day.

"We are the Ones We've Been Waiting For" - Maria Shriver was the first to use this for Barack, and she attributed it to the Hopi.

(There are sites where they list the sources of phrases used by people everyday. Why would they have sites like that - because most people do not know where common phases originated.)

[Fovea]

13. as both Wm Shakespeare and Geofrii Chaucer said-

No.

[Zueda]

14. You should really consider a career in OP Research!

I bet her campaign would hire you.

[tabatha]

22. site

Meanings and Origins of Phrases, Sayings and Idioms

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/

Shakespeare added more phrases and sayings to the English language than anyone else.

There are many more sites like this.

[scheming daemons]

24. Um... Hello... "IT TAKES A VILLIAGE" is Plagiarism too!

LadyVT, you've gone off the deep end.

[LadyVT]

29. She attributed the quote. Not plagiarism.

[LadyVT]

33. What is Plagiarism?

You plagiarize when you take ideas from another (source, person) and whether on purpose or not, pass them off as your own. (Had I obtained that definition from another source, I would have just committed plagiarism by not acknowledging that other source.)

If you copy phrases, sentences, or paragraphs used in a book, article, on the web, or lecture notes and include them in your paper, speech, or presentation without referencing them, you are plagiarizing.

Paraphrasing is acceptable only when you reference the source. It means that you have taken ideas (often from several sources or places within a single source) and put them into your own words, perhaps even adding ideas or coming to conclusions, reflecting your own thoughts about the material. You cannot just change the wording a bit, or omit a word or two.

The two examples I gave were specific quotations, expressing unique ideas, and attributable to a specific source. Plagiarism. Look it up.

[jimbot]

51. You seem to not understand.

First off, as a university professor, you should know that plagiarism is not illegal...copyright infrigement is.
Second, the label plagiarism is usually applied to term and research papers, academic work, and journalism but NOT political speech.

If you were to apply the rules of plagiarism, all politicians would be equally as guilty in that they:
1. did not write their own speeches (they all have speechwriters).
2. did not give proper attribution to their speechwriters.

--JT

[shimmergal]

60. Thanks for pointing this out, jimbot.

You cannot copyright an idea. Only the specific expression of it. And not always even that (book titles, for example, can't be copyrighted.) In practice it usually takes much more than one phrase or sentence to prove EITHER copyright infingement OR plagiarism.

It's nice to acknowledge one's source for a particularly apt phrase, but outside of academia, other factors may be more important than giving full citations. Like not destroying the phrase's or the image's impact. LIke not boring the audience to tears! Democrats certainly don't need to demand constant citation footnotes from their candidates--we lose enough votes by our reputation as "pointy-headed intellectuals" already!

But what really needs to be done with the info. about that "We are the ones..." quote is, send it to Chris Matthews! He was off on a cloud the other night, talking about how it just gave him the shivers, etc. I can appreciate a fine turn of phrase too, even from a candidate who's not my favorite. But I did think Tweety's reaction on this was over the top.

[zonkers]

25. He stole "you've got to fight for your right to party" from the Beastie Boys. Look it up.

[pdxmom]

26. "Check them out." I said this last week. Please don't plagarize. N/T

[JaneQPublic]

27. This reminds me of the 2004 primaries, when Dean was accused...

...of plagiarizing "I'm a member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" from Paul Wellstone. Only it was later learned that Wellstone got it from someone else...

[bpeale]

31. he stole the YES, WE CAN (SI SE PUEDE) from the unions too

[Muttocracy]

35. so did Bob the Builder - maybe Obama heard it from his kids?

:hide:

[rodeodance]

45. I know--and the obamababies cry when I use for Hillary. te he

[hedgehog]

71. Someone else was there before the unions...........

This is a basic American mantra; it makes sense that a lot of people have said it.

[bpeale]

79. this is not the YES WE CAN meme

that ... cesar chavez used first & it has always been used to symbolize the unions.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Wow. You Were Actually Serious Weren't You. How Sad For You.

I woulda sworn this was a sarcasm post. But, it wasn't???

:rofl:

[donheld]

36. .

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[flyarm]

37. hell he stole "CHANGE" from Edwards remember he started out in Iowa as "HOPE" and then immediately

in NH stole Edwards theme of Cahnge..and many of Edwards other saying..like now i hear him say..'THIS IS PERSONAL"..and Hillary has stolen that as well..

but obama has no shame he steals everyone else's words and sayings..i don't think the man has a thought of his own!

understand this..all Obama's signs and everything he had printed in Iowa was "hope"..there was not a damn thing with change till he stole it from Edwards when they moved over to NH..

fly

[Muttocracy]

38. yep, lots of stealing from Edwards

The it's personal stuff bothered me because Edwards had a much nicer meaning for it (I'm familiar with it, I know this struggle vs. IT'S ABOUT ME!!!!)

Biden fans drive ourselves insane by catching B & H plagiarizing (!) him.

[NashVegas]

39. That's Ironic

It was plagiarism - and far worse than Obama has done - that brought Biden's 1988 (?) bid to a screeching halt.


I like Joe, you just gotta be careful w/that one.

[Muttocracy]

40. oh yes, we're all aware of the irony

As I understand it (I was too young back then to follow it), it was Dukakis staffer (Sasso?) who made a big deal of the Kinnock quote which he forgot to attribute at a speech after doing so many times. Biden admits it was a mistake not to run out to the press and clarify it right away. For most of the campaign the media couldn't write a single article about Biden without calling him a racist plagiarist. Lots of internet trolls love to respond to anything Biden does with "you mean Biden teh plagerist?"

And I'm sure ALL politicians are full of non-original catch-phrases. All the recycling of policies and catch phrases this year shows there are not huge differences between the dem. candidates. A silly OP and a silly way to pick our leaders in 1988 or now.

[guruoo]

41. Politicans 'borrow' and paraphrase other's quotes all the time....

JFK, RFK, Carter, Clinton, Reagan, Eisenhower, and even FDR did this.

[LadyVT]

42. It's plagiarism

[guruoo]

43. A waste of valuable bandwidth, IMO. n/t

[blogslut]

49. Bullshit

You just don't like Obama. Your needling "plagiarism" rant is simply another way to express your enmity toward the man. You would get a lot more respect if you were more honest about it.

[flyarm]

63. bullshit ..you don't plagarize someone sitting next to you ..you attribute

the quote to the person/.what Obama is doing is outright theft of someone else's campaign..

plain and simple..its what obama did the minute he left Iowa..his campaign slogan was Hope..i know i SAW ALL THE DAMN SIGNS..

Edwards campaign was "change"...and the media didn't saY JACK SHIT WHEN OBAMA STOLE IT FROM EDWARDS IN NH..

not a fucking word about the theft!

but i would put 10 bucks down if Edwards had a sign saying Change in NH or SC ..the fucking two bit media would have said Edwards was stealing it from Obama..this was always the Obama show with the media..get that straight!

plagarism..hell no the media wanted it!!

fly

[guruoo]

68. I was sorry to see Edwards go.

edited for clarity

[AZBlue]

44. So now we can't quote anyone? Bartlett's will be so disappointed!

I'm not breaking the news to them.

[nemo137]

46. I can't speak for the Hopi one, but

"doing the same thing..." has entered into the English language as a stock phrase or aphorism. You might as well accuse him of stealing something like "a penny saved is a penny earned." Yes, Franklin put it down first, but it's now part of the English language as a whole.

[Richard_C]

47. Grow up!

Obama is not running for an academic position.
Look up the word "petty".
If your candidate wants to be liked, she should be more likable.
You too!
I think I plagiarized the third sentence. So sue me.

[Bread and Circus]

48. As said in the famous movie Stripes: "Lighten up, psycho"

[guruoo]

69. !

Lighten up indeed! :rofl:

[jberryhill]

52. OMIGAWD...

The Visionaries didn't credit the Hopi either!

http://www.amazon.com/Are-Ones-Weve-Been-Waiting/dp/B000HEYZFU



I can't trust a man who doesn't speak in footnotes.

Now, maybe you can work on trying to understand that Hopi saying, and divine the irony in what you just said.

I ain't waitin' for the Hopi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_The_Ones_(We've_Been_Waiting_For)

We Are The Ones (We've Been Waiting For) is the fourth album by The Visionaries, an American hip hop group composed of 2Mex, LMNO, KeyKool, DJ Rhettmatic, Lord Zen, and Dannu.

[jberryhill]

53. He even stole the idea of...

...putting "for president" after his name, as a sly trick to confuse people into voting for him instead of Hillary - who was using "for president" before he was.

[CatnHat]

59. Next we'll hear

he actually wrote Clinton's healthcare plan. Can't his campaign come up with 'anything' original!:rofl:

[foxer]

75. actually Edwards did

[DebJ]

55. The California rally credited the Hopi Nation while the cameras

swung to a Native American supporter in the crowd who was smiling.

[Jed Dilligan]

57. Really scraping the bottom of the bile barrel, eh?

[Wombatzu]

58. Nice catch! (can i say "nice catch"?)

has anyone said that before?

[intaglio]

61. Now who else were plagiarists?

Shakespeare - yup (Marlow and many classical authors)
Churchill - yup (Donne, Elizabeth of Belgium etc)
Wilde - yup (Wilde "I wish I'd said that"; "You will, Oscar, you will," replied Whistler)
Caesar ....
The list just goes on and on.

[cali]

62. bwaahahaha. What kind of fucking idiot

doesn't even know what constitutes plagiarism?

Pathetic and stupid and desperate sums up this OP nicely.

[Adelante]

64. Oh, my

Another one, I mean, Welcome to DU :hi:

[snooper2]

65. Feb 2nd...

nt

[onenote]

66. For cryin' out loud. All politicians lift phrases from other sources

And they don't put footnotes in their speeches. Of the various reasons to support or not support a candidate, this definitely falls in the "it doesn't matter" category.

Really. THink about it.

[H2O Man]

70. Pathetic

[lwcon]

72. I can't hear "Yes We Can" without thinking of this

http://www.amazon.com/Yes-Can-Story-Sammy-Davis/dp/0374522685/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202484269&sr=8-2

I'll accept that Obama is Jesus, Moses, and Martin Luther King. But Sammy? I've got my doubts.

[Marie26]

74. It's a slogan,

not plagarism. Dear Lord. Next they'll be saying that the Chavez family can sue him for using "Yes We Can".

[cooolandrew]

76. "I did not authourise the iraq war is my favourite" slogan of his. =)

[Fovea]

77. Wait, didn't Kucinich say that first?

At least he didnt lift an entire speech from a British pol, hoping no one would recognize it in translation.

[stillcool]

78. whoa...grasp those straws!

Are you being the change you want to see in the world? No wonder.