Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Democrats the DNC and the Florida and Michigan Debacle that threatens everything

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:04 PM
Original message
Democrats the DNC and the Florida and Michigan Debacle that threatens everything
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_080207_democrats_the_dnc_an.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 7, 2008
Democrats the DNC and the Florida and Michigan Debacle that threatens everything

By Steven Leser

If you haven’t heard by now, the Democratic National Committee ( DNC ) punished the state Democratic parties of Florida and Michigan for attempting to move up their primaries by denying their delegates a seat at the Democratic convention. In effect, this deprives those states of having a say in who will be the Democratic nominee. In the interests of full disclosure, I am a former Edwards supporter who now supports Barack Obama for President.

After taking action, the DNC moved to prohibit candidates for the Democratic Nomination for President from taking part in campaigning in those states, attending state conventions and the candidates complied and agreed.

The first problem is that this disenfranchises the Democratic electorate in both states from having any say in who represents them in November. The Republican National Committee also punished Florida, but they were more sensible about the punishment. They cut in half the amount of delegates awarded by Florida’s primary. The punishment of Florida’s Democrats is problematic and unfair in general because the movement of Florida’s primary was effected by the overwhelmingly Republican state legislature and Republican Governor, so it wasn’t even the fault of any part of Florida’s Democratic Party that the primary was moved. The DNC punished innocents for the actions of other actors.

Move forward to the dates of the primaries. More Democrats in Michigan and Florida voted for Hillary Clinton than any other candidate. Hillary made a controversial appearance in Florida at midnight on the evening of the primary literally one second after the ban on appearances in Florida ended in order to try and bask in the ‘victory’ she had there. That is troubling in a number of ways. If Hillary was ahead and about to win the nomination as many expected a few months ago, there would be no issue and she and her supporters would not be complaining about what the DNC did to Michigan and Florida. She had nothing to say about this issue other than that she respected completely the decision by the DNC until Obama won a few of the early states. We don’t know what would have happened in Florida or Michigan if Obama and Edwards and other candidates had the opportunity to have campaigned there. Hillary is the candidate going into this race that has the most name recognition, so in the absence of any campaigning by anyone, she would be expected to win.

Regardless of some questionable tactics by Hillary and her campaign, we Democrats have a serious problem here. I lived in Florida for over twelve years before I moved back to New York. I love my former senator Bill Nelson, Chairperson Karen Thurman, state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, Representative Kathy Castor and everyone else out there. I don’t want my fellow Democrats in Pinellas County where I lived, among other places to be disenfranchised. We have to come up with a solution. More accurately, the DNC and Howard Dean have to step in and come up with a solution that is as fair as possible to everyone and they need to do it now before this gets any more contentious and saps any energy from the Democrats in these states from campaigning and turning out in November. If they don’t do it now and we move forward to a possible brokered convention, as contentious as those normally are, those delegates could be reseated at the convention by a variety of deals or parliamentary acts and could then hand Hillary the nomination. If that happens at the last minute in a brokered convention that has the potential to split the party anyway, I see a fatal blow struck to the ability for Hillary to unite the party in November.

If the delegates are NOT reseated and Obama wins the nomination, I think he has massive problems winning Florida. If he wins the nomination with a delegate count that is so close that those delegates from Florida and Michigan could have made a difference, he also could have problems uniting the party in November and lose a lot more states that he could otherwise have won.

The DNC and Howard Dean MUST step in, show leadership and implement a fair compromise. What they should do is get together with representatives from both Hillary’s and Obama’s campaigns and hammer out a compromise that all parties agree to respect. I’m guessing and suggesting that perhaps we agree to seat half of the delegates from each state as the Republicans did. If we get to the convention, both Hillary and Obama must agree not to seat or accept votes from any more or any fewer delegates than those to which they agreed under any circumstances. Then we can all put this issue to rest and go forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes
SOMETHING needs to be done to resolve this. We can't go to the convention with this clusterfuck hanging over us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Those states are both VITAL to a November victory
I truly believe that the DNC should have understood that from the beginning. Let's hope they are adult enough to work out a compromise. We simply cannot afford to lose either state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Then if Florida is reseated...Hillary will be the nominee.
And that is wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. What do you think of having new primaries or caucuses?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. A waste of time, money, and energy
The 1/2 delegation idea is probably the best one put forth yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Absent other considerations, it would be fine, but...
... I dont know the financial or logistical issues involved. Personally, I'd like to see those at the DNC who voted for this to be tarred and feathered and then keel-hauled. I hate that the RNC was more fair about this than we were. I hate that the GOP in Florida are laughing at us for screwing this up after THEY made this happen down there.

A new primary or caucus would be ideal for healing the divisions, but I dont know what all is involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. How do you feel about the FL Dems who introduced the bill and sponsored it.
and vote for it?

Why are you blaming the DNC when it was the Florida Dems who did not listen.

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Sure, we can go ahead and punish Florida and its party...
... do you have tickets to the McCain inaugural balls yet?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. She will not be a legit winner if she gets Florida delegates.
Period, bottom line.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary must not get Florida delegates. It would be a coup.
I appreciate your post, but I do not think reseating the delegates to give them a voice to seat Hillary is right.

In fact, it would be a Hillary coup.

I do not share your respect of Bill Nelson.

Those questionable tactics were more than "questionable." Hubby and I will leave the party if she gets Florida delegates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Just so you understand, this could be done at the convention anyway...
fully, partially, or any other way. The only way that this does not happen for sure is if the DNC sit down with Obama and Hillary and hammer out an agreement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Just so you understand.....it would still be a coup.
We would not have a legitimate nominee in the eyes of very very many of us. She would lose the election I predict.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. No, it wouldnt... now you are not being consistent
... these are parts of the rules of the Democratic convention. You cant say that the DNC has the power to force people to play by the rules under threat of punishment and then say that the DNCs rules on how its conventions are run are a coup.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. The rules say the delegates of Florida just are not existent.
So do you wave your magic wand?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I think you dont understand the rules and power of those at the convention...
... they absolutely can choose to reseat them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. They can choose, but it will be against the rules that were made.
And yes, I am not dumb as you imply..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. "Hubby and I will leave the party if she gets Florida delegates."
If you really want to see a Republican in office, perhaps you and "hubby" should leave now.

This is Obama's ace-in-the-hole: "Elect us or we'll help the Republicans win."

Smooth move.

--p!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. How dare you. I have been on this since day one. It was and is a coup.
Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. How dare *I*?
YOU made the threat.

YOU explain why you are going to take your ball and go home.

It's a "coup" because it threatens Obama -- period. If Hillary stood to lose, you'd be screaming bloody murder.

And save the condescending "how dare you" for the lecture you give your kids before you whip them.

--p!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I would have supported either. Until she started pushing for FL delegates
Or maybe you did not know about that. I had no candidate until I marked my ballot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. You forgot to mention that Florida helped plan the early primary....voted 115 to 1 for it.
"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
samrock Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Florida

.. ok please correct me IF I am wrong...

BUT I was under the impression that the reason the Florida date was moved up is because the state is totally controlled by the republicans.. and it was THEY who move the date up.. The democrats had no choice since republicans controlled all branches of the state goverment..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. That is correct. I think I said that in my article...
... although as one other poster pointed out, sometime before the decision, the Florida state democrats voted and indicated support of doing that, but I think that was before the DNC indicated that there would be punishments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. You are not telling the truth.
Dean talked to them many times, over and over. Gelber and Geller humiliated him in public, laughed him off. They were warned by others at the DNC as well....months before the vote.

Here are only a very few of my primary posts. I have many more.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. See my response "If you are correct" further down
thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. No, that is just not true. Let me go get my journals and post them here.
I will not let that slip by.

Florida Dems were totally complicit with the GOP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. And if you are correct?
How does that change the mess we are in? Are you willing to hand over the White House to McCain over this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. You know what? I heard that song before...
Just before the last several times we got screwed.

Hey, we voted the Dems in Nov. 06,and Bush is still getting his agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. The only fair thing is to hold caucuses in each state
I don't particularly like caucuses, but primary elections are expensive. But in the first place, Florida and Michigan are both the type of states that should have a say in choosing a candidate. They are more important in the GE than Iowa or Nevada. In fact, of Iowa, S. Carolina, N. Hampshire, and Nevada, which, if any of those states, went blue last time? I know Florida and S. Carolina didn't, and I don't think Iowa did. Michigan did. Do we consistently allow small states who don't even vote for Democrats in the GE to select candidates? The DNC really needs to figure out how to engage the important states in the process.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Bill Nelson said no to that. I just posted it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Another election should be held.
There should be no caucuses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RunningFromCongress Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. I don't have a big problem w/ letting 1/2 the FL delegate sit...
but MI delegate CANNOT count, it would be unfair in the worst way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. Why can't they seat half??
The republicans seated half. The DNC is really wrong on this. I know MadFloridian has been writing about this issue for awhile, but I think that enough is enough here. Do we really want to disenfranchise voters in Florida?? I felt my vote meant nothing, but I voted anyway. For John Edwards by the way. I know a lot of people didn't even realize that their vote may not count. So, those of us that did vote should be counted. End of discussion!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Florida is really wrong. They are determined Hillary will win.
at all costs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. Dont' forget that Obama "campaigned" in FL in 9/07, after the pledge had been made.
He isn't exactly playing by the rules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleks not included Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. I called the Michigan Democratic Party...
and they said that they don't know what is going on. They also said that if there was a cacus they would annouce it. I said that it would be hard for those that vote by absentee ballot. I was told that those that wanted absentee ballots would hve to call the state party and could not count on being sent one. I then called my local city clerk's office. They said they have not heard of any cacus. The guy said that Michigan was always a primary state.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrJJ Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. MANDATE that MI & FL CAUCUSS
No machine worries. No elderly pushing the wrong buttons. But of course The FL Dem leaders will say no... so stop beating a dead horse. Both states had 30 days to reconsider their decisions. Blame goes to the States party bosses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yes, but why should the people suffer
We voted. Our vote should count!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. AMEN!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Blame isnt the issue...
I know MadFloridian is having a cow over blame. That no longer matters. What matter is, how do we fix this. I have no problem with a new primary or caucus as you suggest, but what ISNT an option is to do NOTHING.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Party Politics over the PEOPLE matters
Don't you get it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Oh, my goodness. Nothing matters now, does it?
Well, then let her go for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Precisely n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. You are being completely DUPED
The powers in both states support Hillary. If they were being honest, they would admit they broke the rules and would agree to be seated for whichever candidate is ahead. They shouldn't have tried to shut Obama out of the election by playing games with state primaries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
42. Nope.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
46. So, after all of this back and forth, is anyone here AGAINST the idea of a new caucus?
It seems like that is the consensus. If so, I will write a followup article tomorrow...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I am all for it but who will pay for it? You all know the condition this state is in. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. If you write a followup article, perhaps you could point out it was Florida's fault.
Instead of blaming the DNC for enforcing the rules.

AND just perhaps, you could stop implying that I am not very bright.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I never said you weren't bright...
... if you want to say that I implied that you were focused on the wrong thing, then I'll agree with you. I think that you still are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I am focused on the aspect that FL did it on purpose and you don't see that.
Florida planned it with the GOP. It was not the voters they were worrying about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
50. WOW, it just hit me how you phrased it. It only hurts Hillary
if the delegates are not reseated.

That was brilliant. Credit to you.

If the delegates are not reseated, we have a fair election. It would probably not help Hillary. If they are reseated, it only helps her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC