I have to agree with dicksteele: the election is far from a "D" shoe-in.

[Tyler Durden]

I've heard a lot of "DU isn't a microcosm of the electorate" and you're right, it isn't.

The general voting public is much, much worse. We are so far from having the election the sure thing it COULD have been that it might be less than a toss up at this point.

Listen to me:

I work in a medium sized manufacturing plant in Michigan, a supposed "Blue" state, and since MLK day alone I've heard:

-"Martin Luther Coon Day" (on MLK Day)
-"I'll vote for ANYONE but Clinton" (from 3 people who are DEMOCRATS)
-"American doesn't want a black man for president" (from so many I can't count)
-"ANY Republican beats Clinton (Obama)" (different answers from different people)
-I ACTUALLY HEARD SOMEONE CALL HIM "OSAMA" AND THEY THOUGHT THAT REALLY WAS HIS NAME, AND THAT HE WAS A MUSLIM.

Know how may people I've talked to that will even vote for Clinton OR Obama here? NONE. Zero out of over 250 people. I am the sole person in the plant who will vote Democratic and even I'm not happy about it.

All we had to do was get someone who didn't push half of the country's buttons on one hand or someone who didn't push the OTHER sides buttons. So now what do we have? Two likely very qualified potential candidates, either of which could likely do at least a "fair" job, and would not be a Republican.

AND WHO ARE THEY????

A Man of Color with a name that sounds like you should put "SHEIK" in front of it, who can't even seem to keep from pissing off half of his own party. A man NEW to POLITICS, who can't seem to keep from adding to his own baggage. Someone who can't seem to make his policies known, even to a politically astute person like GARY TRUDEAU:



A Woman of national standing who used to be referred to as "The GOOD Yoko." A political lightning rod who the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY would rather perform self-surgery without pain killers than see in office. Someone who does not have to even open her MOUTH before someone FROM EITHER PARTY is starting to cram her own words back down her throat.

What on EARTH can we be thinking of?

We turned down THREE long term legislators with well documented policies and plans, a constitutional scholar, AND, if we had gotten off the two winners we have right now for one second: A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LAUREATE who yes, would have taken up the challenge if we had only acclaimed him instead of the rock star or the most hated woman in America.

If this CATASTROPHE were not so horrifying, I would laugh uncontrollably.

I agree with dicksteele. This election was ours to lose, and in typical Democratic Party cat-herding fashion, we are stand an excellent chance of doing what we do best: snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[AlCzervik]

1. check out the democratic turnout in Ca verses the pubes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4434217&mesg_id=4434217

[Tyler Durden]

2. And the Obama Partisans will ALL vote for Clinton...

and Vice Versa.

RIGHT.

There is more action in the primary, and that's CALIFORNIA, a world unto itself.

[Tyler Durden]

3. SHIT, you can't even get US to agree to them on the SAME TICKET.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4435162

[griffi94]

4. while yours in not going to be a popular

opinion here...i think you're right.
my prediction is that we're about to see a political realignment.
if obama hangs on and gets the nod. many moderate democrats will go for mccain.
the conservative wing of the gop is being purged in favor of a more moderate stance. this leaves a place for disgruntled moderate/conservative democrats.
i think a lot of people are willing to squabble over rifts in ideology when things are going more or less ok....but now there are real problems and the vast majority in the middle want action a plan and results....my very democratic grand parents will probly vote for mccain. they see him as a moderate common ground guy

[Tyler Durden]

5. That, and I lived in Texas as an expatriate Yankee...

I don't care what you say, I got 100 bucks that says that if Obama is the nominee, he doesn't carry more than one Southern state, and I'm not even certain he'll do that. Clinton might not even take ONE.

I don't like saying that, and I'm ashamed that it's probably true.

[griffi94]

7. yes it is true

sad to say but there it is. also obama is doing well in southern states in the democratic primaries.
when everybody in those states gets to vote....he won't peel off any repubs. and many dems. in the middle will got to mccain. i think some of the rocky mountain states will be the same, and possibly even midwestern states like IN KS OH

[Tyler Durden]

8. There is a "syndrome" in White America...

People will say out loud that "...SURE, I'd vote for a black person..." and when it comes down to cuttin' toes...Well, you know the drill.

Even DETROIT when they have a WHITE Mayoral Candidate and a BLACK Mayoral Candidate they don't poll anywhere NEAR the percentage of Black residents in the city as the percentage that voted for the Black Candidate.

We are so fucked.

[Tyler Durden]

6. DISCLAIMER:

I stated almost a week ago that I would not post here again. I did not sent this thread here. I thought it politically even enough to be in GD; I was overruled. I reserve the right to respond to my own thread without the taint of going back on my word.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I have said this before and will say it again

this election is being engineered for a republican win...

And engineered is the right word

[Tyler Durden]

14. I hate being manipulated, especially by my allies.

That is the sort of travesty that brings empires low.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. There ain't nothing that compares to

winning the battle and losing the war. And I fear that is exactly what is going to happen regardless of whether Hillary or Obama is the party nominee - and I do not favor one over the other. I fear there will be a President McCain. That would be a tragedy. And an opportunity squandered. By its very nature politics is inherently practical. If this party does not unite behind its nominee then defeat is deserved. And if this party selects a nominee that does not win the general election then we will have proved that practical considerations such as electability trump political ideology. Winning the party nomination isn't worth a damn if a candidate does not go on to win the general election. And the candidates? IMHO, they would be well advised to go into some dark smokey room, have a few drinks, make their own deals and then come out and present a unified front.

[Tyler Durden]

11. Deadlocked Convention, with a "Dark Horse" might do it.

Edwards, Biden, or dare I say it without being pissed on....

Draft Albert Gore..? THERE is a sure winner.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. I'm not so sure that

a brokered convention might not be the best possible outsome at this point. Too much division between the two remaining camps. And too many that are less than delighted with the ones that remain standing.

And Gore? Yeah, I think he would be a winner.

[Tyler Durden]

13. This is the worst I've ever seen it...

And I remember Chicago 1968.

These are the times that try men's souls.