Obama voter disenfranchisement in California!

[dailykoff]

Just heard a story on NPR reporting that ballots given to "decline to state party" voters have to come back with a party affiliation stated on the ballot or the presidential vote is thrown out. Most voters don't realize that.

The reporter said it's big deal because around 20% of L.A. voters are "decline to state," and are mostly Obama voters. Obama team is already considering legal action.

Why am I not surprised that Obama votes are being thrown out on a technicality?

[still_one]

1. That is what I was afraid of. /nt

[LoverOfLiberty]

2. Uh oh

here we go again!

[ronnykmarshall]

3. Oh Jesus!

What a fucking shock!

[sfam]

4. That truly sucks...

[marlakay]

5. my daughter is a independent and thought

she could vote dem, they told her she couldn't but she wasn't decline to state. So she signed up that way from now on. She was dissapointed because she wanted to vote for obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Indie is decline to state in California. They played her

at the polls

[Retrograde]

40. Poll workers are often confused about this

because some parties allow indies to vote in their primaries and others don't. This year, Democrats allowed it but Republicans didn't. I've had to insist on this at the poll in the past: a member of the county Democratic committee once wrongly tried to convince me that indies couldn't vote in any primary.

[Duer 157099]

17. I think they had a separate Indie ballot

because I'm decline to state, and they gave me a choice tonight between either a Dem or Indie ballot

[Usrename]

50. In LA they used a special trick ballot for the indies.

If indies didn't mark an extra bubble, in addition to the Obama bubble, their vote just went into the scanner without getting counted. How's that for ingenious voter disenfranchisement. Is there a pattern developing here, or what?

much more at> http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5032

[cottonseed]

28. American Independent or Decline to State?

My girlfriend had the same confusion. She was registered American Independent, but that's ain't so independent.

[jasmine621]

6. With such an amazing number of ground troops for Obama

why didn't their supporters know this. And do you really think that no Clinton supporters are facing the same thing?

[SeattleGirl]

7. No one should be thrown out if the way to vote on a ballot is

not made clear to the people using the ballots.

I don't care who the candidate is, that should not freakin' happen.

People should have their votes counted, damnit!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Ok I am in that category (not obama voter, or HRC) so you telling me that

the poll workers should have done more? They gave me an honest to goodness DEMOCRATIC ballot, and they made both of us initial the roster.

[leeno]

9. DTS voters have the right to vote

DTS voters have the right to vote for Barack Obama in the Democratic Presidential Primary.

DTS voters must identify themselves as DTS or non-partisan voters and ask to vote in the Democratic Presidential Primary when they arrive at their polling location. They will get instructions from a poll worker on how to vote in the Democratic Primary. If a voter gets into the voting booth and finds that he or she does not have an option to vote for Barack Obama, the voter should not cast his or her ballot. Instead, he or she should return the partially filled-out or unmarked ballot to the poll worker, and ask the poll worker to seek clarification from the supervisor at the polling location or from the County Registrar of Voters.

In Los Angeles County, DTS voters will be given a non-partisan ballot which they must take into a "Democratic" booth. They must mark both the "Democratic" bubble and the bubble for Barack Obama.

[LiberalHeart]

10. Huh? Explain please....

I don't understand this ... does it mean people won't tell poll workers which party they're voiting in, but they do it secretly by checking a box?

[dailykoff]

16. I'm pretty sure it's only new voters.

However, I'm not sure if the polling workers are registering these voters at the polling places, or if if they've already registered as "declined to state."

[Liberty Belle]

45. Deadline to register in CA was 3 weeks ago.

[tandot]

11. Bullshit. Here is a link to the California Secretary of State:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_decline.htm

"Decline to State" Voters - Voting in the Upcoming 2008 Presidential and Statewide Direct Primary Elections

If you are a voter who has declined to state an affiliation with a political party, you may be able to vote for a candidate of a specific party in the upcoming February 5, 2008 Presidential Primary Election and/or June 3, 2008 Statewide Direct Primary. You may request, from your county elections official or at your polling place, the ballot of a political party if authorized by the party's rules and duly noticed by the Secretary of State. Click here to obtain county elections office contact information.

If you do not request such a ballot, you will be given a nonpartisan ballot, containing only the names of all candidates for nonpartisan offices and measures to be voted upon at the primary election.

[VolcanoJen]

20. You have to pencil in that "DTS" line or your vote will be "undervoted"...

... and potentially would not count.

Apparently both camps sent out supporters to the polls in Cali today to urge the importance of marking in that slot, lest their vote not be counted.

[tandot]

25. But it would affect not only Obama voters but also Clinton voters

It is not some Clinton scheme to rig the election.

[dailykoff]

27. Clinton voters are more likely to be Dem party members

so they wouldn't have that problem, at least to the same extent. It seems to be disadvantaging Obama voters.

[MediaBabe]

33. Why do you think that?

I don't think there is any evidence to back that up.

[tandot]

38. Are you saying that Obama supporters are less likely to be Dem party members?

What do you base that on? Any links to back that up?

[dailykoff]

39. It's pretty widely understood that Obama gets the independents

and Hilly gets the stalwarts. Don't believe me if you don't want to but it stands to reason anyway.

[tandot]

43. I guess it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. They just called CA for Clinton

55% to 33%

I am going to bed. Good night.

[VolcanoJen]

30. Of course it isn't

It's just a really, really dumb ballot. Both camps should have been out in front of it.

[dailykoff]

23. It sounds like it has to do with the ballot itself.

Like they're given a generic ballot, and then have to state a party affiliation in order for the presidential vote to count.

[bigdarryl]

13. Thats funny i am a independent in NJ i was told by the polling place that I couldn't vote because

i wasn't a dem or a rethug. I am making a formal complaint tomorrow i have friends who were also asked when they got to the polling place what was there party and two of them were rejected because they were independents just as i was they told me i should have switched to a dem or rethug sixty days prior.

[SharonAnn]

21. Every state is different. The laws of the state apply within the state.

often there are great similarities, but there can also be significant differences. This can be especially noticeable in the primaries.

[NMMNG]

22. That's how primaries work in NJ

If you are not affiliated with a party, you can't vote in that party's election. In other words, you cannot vote for a Democrat if you are not registered as a Democrat. It's not a conspiracy or voter suppression, it's the law.

[karynnj]

44. Not true - if you are independent

you can at the polling place get a ballot for either party - you do at that point become one of that party. You can not go from one party to the other.

[adabfree]

26. In NJ is you're registered as unafffliated...

You can select your party that day...like I did..I chose Dem...to vote for Obama

I have to change it back at the local office...but for now I am a Dem

I think in NJ Independents can't vote there was an article in The Press of Atlantic City about it today..it explained it well

[MediaBabe]

32. Different states have different rules.

The rules in place in California would not be the same as the rules of the New Jersey Democratic Party. Remember it's the Democratic Party's primary election you are requesting to participate in, not the US's presidential election.

[MediaBabe]

37. You don't want to be Democrat, ya just want to tell them what to do

It's funny how it works. This is a DEMOCRATIC PARTY presidential choice you are demanding to participate in but you don't want to be a member of the Democratic Party. Why should they let you?

As an independent you have a say in your STATE'S primary election. That's what you opted to do when you registered. If you want to tell the Democratic Party what to do then, GET INVOLVED and join the party.

[karynnj]

42. Put in a complaint

I'm from NJ as well and we had as our script that people who with non-aligned (independent) can vote in a primary - people who voted in the primary then are assigned that party and to be independent again they need to file for it. At the home we were doing GOTV, one woman, who was an independent told us that she was the 46th person who was an independent who asked for a Democratic ballot at her precinct - it was mentioned because it was extremely high.

[Duer 157099]

14. I'm a "decline to state" and I also am absentee

but I took my ballot to the polling place and asked for a Dem one, and they gave it to me, so I hope there was no additional bubble that I needed to check. They specifically asked what kind of ballot I wanted, either Dem or Indie and I told them Dem -- not sure what this is about

[dailykoff]

18. I'm not exactly how it works.

It sounded from the story like the non-major party ballots are all the same, and the voter has to pick a party, or else their presidential vote doesn't count.

[UALRBSofL]

15. So your saying Independents can't vote ?

I believe this was the case and it was discussed on DU this week. Can someone look up the rules or whatever it is to make sure?

[question everything]

29. They should not

Primaries are for voters who declare that they are Democrats or Republicans, who share the goals of the appropriate party.

We do not tolerate Republicans on DU, why should we have non-Democrats voting for our candidate?

If you are not willing to state your support of a party you have no business participating in how that party selects its candidates.

My opinion, of course and I am obviously in the minority.

I thought that in California one has to choose a party to vote, at least, that's how it was when I lived there in the 90s. And a friend of mine told me that both of them are registered as Republicans so that can vote for the weakest candidate in the Republican primary.

[EFerrari]

31. But DTS is not independent or Republican. n/t

[question everything]

60. But not a Democrat or a Green either

we really don't know since they decline to state, right?

[MediaBabe]

41. It's not just your opinion, it's fact.

Many people do not seem to understand how the primary system works. If they want to tell Democrats (or Republicans) who to run for president, then join the party.

[Usrename]

52. The California Democratic primary was open to non-Democrats.

That's what the California Dems decided that they wanted. The Republican primary in Ca was closed (only Rethugs allowed).

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I call bullshit

As a cali resident I know the state has had an open primary SINCE the nineties, at least and this is the first primary that the Republicans have closed it... making the state a modified OPEN primary state

I just love when people spread it deeper and higher and do not expect people to call them on their bullshit

[TheDeathadder]

19. I'm 100% Clinton

but that fucking sucks!!

[keep_it_real]

24. Are we really living in the year 2008?

With stuff like this going on?

[HughLefty1]

34. I'm not sure I believe this...

My husband is an independent voter here in Los Angeles.. He just asked for a Democrat ballot. No problems.

I as a registered Dem had to fill out a provisional ballot...go figure.

[dailykoff]

35. If you can't figure out why they gave you a provisional

what makes you think first timers are going to figure out this particular technicality?

[Garbo 2004]

36. "Decline to state" voters have to request a Dem ballot to vote in Dem primary in CA.

That's the way it's been. This is not new or targeted against anyone.

[musiclawyer]

46. But many counties have run out of Dem Ballots

I know that for a fact. Elections officials are going nuts right now. This IS going to affect the count.

[Usrename]

49. That's not the issue here.

They have a nifty way of tossing out the Obama votes.

You have to mark an extra oval, and there is no clear instruction to do this. It's awful, really.

Who dreamed this up as a way to disenfranchise voters?

http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5032

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Amazing, we did not have that problem in SD, and you'd think we'd have it

they hired one of the geniouses from Cuyahooga CO in OH right after the 2006 mess

[Usrename]

55. They're everywhere, aren't they?

This does look like it should be worked out in favor of the voters. I don't think Obama will take it to court, but still...

:banghead:

[BadgerLaw2010]

47. OP is a conspiracy troll. Ignore.

[dailykoff]

48. Nobody but the operatives seem to notice.

But boy do they notice!

[Usrename]

54. You might want to educate yourself about this issue.

Or are you an "official story" troll?

FYI, the AP is running a story on this, and you should try and review my other posts in this thread. It's real voter disenfranchisment:

...

"Voter-outreach groups criticized the ballot in Los Angeles County, saying it could disenfranchise independent voters.

The Democratic and American Independent party ballots given to independent voters who request them include an extra bubble specifying that the ballot is for that party's primary. The bubble appears before the list of presidential candidates.

If voters fail to mark that spot, the county's scanning machines will not read the selection for president.

Lawyers for the Los Angeles-based Courage Campaign said that violates California election law. The group sent a letter to Los Angeles County officials threatening legal action if the issue isn't addressed before Tuesday's election."

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_8165670?nclick_check=1

...

[BadgerLaw2010]

57. I am well educated about dailykoff. He belives nuclear weapons were used at the World Trade Center.

[Usrename]

59. Good, cause you don't seem to know squat about this issue.

Maybe you could try edjamacating yourself.

[eridani]

56. Deal with this shit NOW, not in the general election! n/t

[nolabels]

58. Surprise, surprise, surprise, when do we get to hear what the count on under-votes was?

Sounds like a gimmick right out of the republican bag of tricks :-(

[dailykoff]

61. LA TIMES: "Bubble trouble on the ballot"

A complicated system and confusing ballot may have spoiled the vote for many independents.

By Richard L. Hasen, The Los Angeles Times
February 7, 2008

Here's the issue. In California, each political party decides whether independent voters -- technically called "decline to state" voters -- can cast ballots in its primary. The Democratic Party and the American Independent Party allow that.

This caused minor confusion up and down the state as election officials tried to sort out which primary ballot, if any, to give to decline-to-state voters. But a problem specific to Los Angeles was much more serious. For their votes in the Democratic or American Independent primary to count, decline-to-state voters here had to fill in a bubble at the top of the ballot indicating which primary they were voting in. A voter who failed to fill in that bubble -- such as a decline-to-stater choosing Barack Obama -- would not have had his or her presidential vote counted. Only votes on local and state propositions would be recorded.

The printed instructions on the ballot (as well as the registrar's website) were confusing and unfamiliar. They directed "nonpartisan voters" to fill in the extra bubble. Did decline-to-state voters know they were also "nonpartisan?" Moreover, some independent-minded decline-to-state voters intending to vote in the Democratic primary could have ruined their ballots by indicating they were voting "American Independent."

Paul Drugan, executive assistant with the L.A. County registrar-recorder's office, told The Times that the instructions were clear and voters were educated about the problem, but he acknowledged that his office foresaw the problem months ago.

Now lawyers are dealing with the registrar-recorder's office and the secretary of state, demanding that decline-to-state ballots get another look and that every effort be made to count ballots for voters who skipped the extra bubble. While those votes won't change the statewide results, some Democratic delegates are chosen based on the winner of each congressional district. That decline-to-state voters -- suspected to heavily support Obama -- could affect the delegate count is not beyond the realm of possibility. It'll probably be days before the registrar gets a clear picture of how many ballots we're talking about.

more: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-hasen7feb07,0,2874741.story