Is it wise to put all our electoral 'eggs' in Florida's basket.

[Padraig18]

We all know the arguments about the importance of FL, both pro and con, and we've also been assualted with repeated threads virtually demanding that either Sen. Graham or Sen. Nelson be the VP nominee in order to make FL 'blue' in November.

My question, then, is this: how wise is that strategy?

[ringmastery]

1. not all of our eggs in one basket

but it's foolishness to ignore florida.

We got to make Bush spend money in that state.

And hello 27 electoral votes???????

It's insurance if we lose one or more of the battleground states: Iowa, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnoesota, Oregon.

[dakota_democrat]

5. Minnesota won't be lost...

Trust me. The Twin Cities is strongly liberal (just open the StarTribune) and that'll be enough to outvote the rural areas, which isn't nearly as conservative as the rest of the rural midwest.

[ShaneGR]

2. Ohio is ground zero this time

We won't make the same mistake twice.

[Bombtrack]

4. Oh yeah listen to the airheads like Campbell Brown. "forget Florida"

Ohio is the Florida of 2004. No, Florida is the FLorida of 2004. Ohio is the Ohio of 2004. There are no good vp choices from Ohio. There is a great one from Florida.

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. How about Kucinich? He's from Ohio

He's also an actual liberal. As opposed to a Bush enabler claiming to be a liberal. Or the not even remotely liberal names being thrown up (literally :puke: ) like Bayh, Breaux, etc.

[Cuban_Liberal]

27. He placed 3rd in his home state primary.

not exactly a stellar reccomendation, in terms of 'delivering' the state to us...

[wuushew]

11. Agreed, also this point must be hammered home

No Republican President has EVER been elected to the Presidency without winning Ohio

[pmbryant]

3. To me, it's definitely a good idea, though not a requirement

If we win Florida, that makes the rest of our job much easier. That fact cannot be ignored.

Ohio is another crucial state, obviously.

EDIT: To clarify, putting Graham or Nelson (much preferably Graham) on the ticket is what I consider a good idea. Not 'putting all our electoral eggs in one basket'. ;-)

--Peter

[Bombtrack]

6. All you can do is bash attempting to win the by far biggest red state,

without telling us what basket we SHOULD put our eggs in. It's not as if a Kerry/Graham ticket is any less competative in any other non-Florida swingstates than any other Kerry ticket.

[Padraig18]

9. Touchy on the subject, aren't ya?

Sadly, it doesn't appear that I'm alone in my opinion, Bombtrack. Ask yourself, is your bias blinding you to other possibilities that are equally viable/reasonable? Take a deep breath, and think about it objectively.

:hi:

[MikeG]

7. Instead of putting the eggs in a basket,

can we just throw them at someone?

[Kahuna]

8. Only bush will win Florida. Period. What part of 2000

did these people miss?!?! What makes them think that anything different will be done this time?!?! Repukes still control the Florida legislature and congress. All of smirk's cohorts are in place. Nothing has changed. :wtf:

[Padraig18]

10. We're in complete agreement.

I would LOVE to win FL, but for the very reasons you stated, I wouldn't bet a plug nickel on it happening...

[Padraig18]

12. Kick

[Dying Eagle]

13. Ehhh

I say we should worry about Ten and WI.

[tedoll78]

14. I'll put it this way:

if at convention time Kerry is still leading or tied in Florida (and I mean "45-45 tied," not "49-45 tied"), then I think a Senator Nelson would be smart.

edit: but the skeptical part of me says naaah..

[Padraig18]

19. I have no objection to TRYING to win Florida

I think a victory there would be particularly sweet, in fact. My objection is to any strategy which relies on FL as the lynchpin/keystone to our victory. I don't trust Jebbie any further than I can throw him, and I think we need to look at more likely strategies which do not rely on a victory in FL.

Some folks are confusing my objection to a 'Florida strategy' with a dislike for either Sen. Graham or Sen. Nelson, which couldn't be further from the truth. I REALLY like Sen. Graham, and Sen. Nelson is "OK", but I just think it's foolish to depend on FL to give us a victory in 2004, especially in light of the 2000 and 2002 electoral results there. IMO, Florida is 'redder' than it was in 2000, if anything.

:)

[tedoll78]

21. I pretty much agree with you.

(misread the original post:P)

I like an Ohio (20EV) strategy better, with Arizona (10EV) backup.
ANd I still advocate a faked campaign in certain states, to create the image that we're going all-out on GOTV spending, etc so that Bush will be compelled to spend time and money in certain states.

[Padraig18]

22. We agree.

I think our richest potential 'harvest' for EVs is OH and in the West/Southwest (AZ, NV, CO). For pure revenge, a victory in FL would be sweet, but the risk factor is unacceptably high, IMO. LA is just as much or more 'in play' than is FL, and it and AR look far more reasonably winnable, if we just HAVE TO make a concerted 'Southern' strategy.

:)

[David Zephyr]

15. Good Question, Padraig18. And My Answer Would Be "No".

No.

I'd love to have Florida, but is it worth all the marbles? No.

[Bake]

17. You are correct, sir or madam: Ohio is ground zero!

I don't think we should write Florida OFF. I believe there are a LOT of pissed-off Dems there, and some seroius grassroots work there will not be in vain.

But with Bush's jobs record, and Ohio's manufacturing jobs misery, we hit it and hit it HARD. The whole Rust Belt. And I think there ARE some winnable Southern states (damn few, true), and Florida may well be one of them. LA another. Tennessee another. But we're not going to take Mis'sippi, Georgia, or Alabama, that's for damn sure.

And Kentucky? It's doubtful. But I have a dilemma. I still maintain a residence in KY, and am currently registered to vote there. Would my vote "count" for more by voting absentee in KY, or should I register in Mississippi and try to make a difference here? What do you folks think?

Bake

[Padraig18]

18. Vote in KY

:)

[JCMach1]

20. With Clark on the Ticket, OK and Ark.

Would be in-play as well.

[Cuban_Liberal]

23. Not a good strategy.

Winning FL would be nice--- wonderful, even--- and we should certainly make every effort to be competitive there, but as a strategy, it's entirely too risky. There are other Southern states that are just as likely to 'go blue' this year, with the proper VP candidate (LA and AR, with Breaux, e.g.), and the Midwest and Southwest also have lots of EVs just ripe for the picking.

We cannot let our anger about what happened in 2000 dictate a 'get even' electoral strategy; we must pick the smartest strategy this year, and leave revenge for another day.

[Padraig18]

29. Well said!

:thumbsup:

[genius]

24. Florida cannot be won by the Democrats. The voting is rigged

No one in power in the state is willing to unrig the electronic voting in that state. Our only hope is VCIAA. That's why Graham introduced Rush Holt's bill in the Senate. Call your Senators and tell them to get behind it.

[mndemocrat_29]

25. Of course we shouldn't rely entirely on Florida

But we should spend time and money there, considering it is an electoral jackpot. We should also focus on making sure the Gore states all stay in Kerry's column (though current polling looks like they all should). However, we should also have our sights on states like Arizona, Ohio, New Hampshire, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, West Virginia, and Louisiana.

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. Yes.

FL would be a JUICY win, but we have to keep our eye on the EV 'ball', and realize that there are MANY states besides FL which would spell a win for us in NOV. FL is not the 'be all and end all', i.e., a Holy Grail for our party.

When we get a Democratic administration, there will be plenty of time for OUR Attorney General to settle Jebbie and Katherine Harris' hash...

[Cuban_Liberal]

28. Kick

[0rganism]

30. Florida's eletcion process is no basket, it's the fox's mouth

Put as many eggs there as you wish to waste.

[Clark4Prez]

31. Being from Florida

and having campaigned for Graham, I can say that he is popular as a Senator and was a great Governor. But, I think that there may be some stronger players, such as Richardson, Clark (okay, I'm biased there), the AG of NY (who's name escapes me at the moment, but he is kick ass, and he may be our president one day).

The name that was floated that I thought had the most appeal in terms of cross-over is McCain. Now I realize he's a Rethug, and a fiscal conservative, he did have the balls to tell Falwell to pound sand in 2000 (that act alone made me a fan forever). He would make one hell of a veep and the debates would be fun. Now back to reality now.

I don't think we need to pick a Florida boy to win in the Sunshine State. Bush may have handed it to us with the Medicare bill, which the seniors are mega pissed over.

[Padraig18]

32. Thank you for a different perspective on FL.

I have no objection to Bob Graham; he's a great guy. My whole problem with him or Nelson is this 'Florida strategy', which as my thread title indicates, is placing all our eggs in one basket. I just don't think that's wise after the 2000 debacle, considering that the same thugs who stole it then are STILL running things.

:)

[Clark4Prez]

34. I agree, we need to think 50 states, not 1

Although, I would love to win Florida, it would be sweet, but winning the WH is what matters.

I don't know that Graham pulls votes all over America, and that is what we need. I think that Kerry needs to have Edwards on his short list as well, not that he's asked me or anything.

[Padraig18]

35. Yes, we need a broad-based strategy.

There are states in the Midwest and Southwest that are just aching to go blue this year, so we can't be so narrow in our focus as to just single out FL.

Think how much fun you'll have in FL with a Democrat as Attorney General investigating the shenanigans in FL in 2000 and 2004. It would be almost as good as winning it. :evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

33. 2 can play the kick game

[Lori Price CLG]

36. Are you kidding? Jeb's Florida is stolen already, remember 2002!

The (I think) 7 liberal initiatives on the Florida ballot PASSED in 2002; yet Jeb Bush was 'reelected???' Limiting class size was one of the initiatives on the ballot. I do not think Jeb Bush 'won.' Moreover, the primary was rigged with defective 'voting' machines so that Janet Reno would lose the Democratic nomiation for governor. We need to focus on states where Bush's brother is not rigging machines and stealing elections.

Moreover, Theresa LeWhore is still around.

-Lori