Attack of the ImperiaLiberals

[DuctapeFatwa]

Months away from the Democratic convention, the miniscule but variously dutiful, zealous, or desperate segment of the US public that participates in the American political process finds itself in the possession of an unwieldy item known as a "presumptive nominee."

So the ImperiaLiberals are out in force. They are out to tell you strenly that you better get in line, wheedle at you about unity, inform you in brisk, clipped tones that all the candidates of either party have always been Imperialists, and in a thousand and one ways more or less "chilling," to use the word of the moment, dispose for once and for all of any notions anyone might have had that the American people might be interested in exercising their constitutional power to change their government, considering that the "we didn't know"s of other reigns of horror are no longer available, thanks to Al Gore's thoughtfully having invented the internet.

Their mission is to obliterate any vestige of hope you might have had, that maybe just this once, the American voters, not the politicians, or the generals, or the captains of the population reduction and auxillary industries, but the voters, might listen to all those voices whispering, shouting, pleading, warning:

"Lay the burden down NOW"

Does America have nothing better to do? It's OWN children are hungry, and hungry they will stay as The Land of the Free pours the children's food into the continuing crusade to find in far off lands, the most despicable sell-his-mama for-a-dollar scumbag to install as a "leader" and the most depraved psychotic wretches to slip a little somepm somepm under the table to create "instability" for which the only remedy is a good solid dose of Occupation Syrup and a few hefty contracts to sell the Family Size Pack of the somepm somepm.

Born of genocide, suckled on slavery and weaned on apartheid, it is perhaps unrealistic to suppose that the United States, were it a character in a novel, have a happpy fate. Such a monster would of course meet a decidedly unpleasant end, and be buried on a dark, grey day, mourned only by a handful of forlorn General Dynamics executives.

Why then, beat the hearts of some of the less ardent ImperiaLiberals, would you want to save it?

lifeaftertheoilcrash.net will take you on a journey round the graphs and charts that say maybe 15 years, maybe a little less, a little more.

A decade, maybe a little more, sounds like an eternity to a young person, thirtysomethings in their comfortable homes, food in the fridge, money in the bank, an occasional bird chirp breaking the suburban quiet, but older folks will tell you that a a souped-up Lamberghini ain't got nothing on decade, even a little more when it comes to the speed with which it can zip by, and depending on where they've been, and what they've seen, they can also tell you about the paradox of apocalypse: the picture postcard street doesn't turn into an abbatoir, or an inferno, or both, overnight, yet it does.

Gradualists, adherents to a popular tenet of ImperiaLiberalism, will be able to appreciate that. It's about baby steps. Not the one forward and 3 back and build a brick wall in front of the baby that forms the standard approach to the US providing health care for its citizens, for example, but the stealthy inexorable baby steps of pathenogenic organisms, of putrefication, of necrotizing fascitis, of facsism.

These baby steps reach their destination, enabled by the helping hand of apathy, the swift push of greed, ask around. Ask Iraq, Iran. Ask Palestine, Afghanistan. Ask Africa, if you dare.

Drop now in shame the proud heads of the ImperiaLiberals. Just let it happen then, maybe they breathe, or it could be the wind. They do spend a lot of time in political circles, they are bound to have wind. What's to save?

Not the reality of America. Not the brutal inhuman reign of greed, but the idea.

The bill of goods that American children are sold from infancy, that some continue to cling to like a tattered blanket well into adulthood, into old age, to their graves.

Langston Hughes said it best:

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!


There are months before the convention.

They may be the last months you have to change your government.

[efhmc]

1. Too deep for me. I just want bush out.

[rdfi-defi]

12. and that is the point of the original post.

although it could have been said in a more accessible manner, the comments of the original post were right on the mark, and your response was simplistically telling, "too deep for me. i just want bush out."

and we may get bush out. that would be a wonderful thing, to get rid of rumsfeld cheny wolfowitz ashcroft noriega...........

and i for one will be glad if kerry wins. i do not think he is a populist candidate by any stretch of the imagination, but i hope he wins. for the reasons i gave above.

if kerry wins the election this year, and proves to be a great president in word and deed, not just in rhetoric, then i will applaud you ABB/Kerry people. i will have learned from your wisdom and take it into account at the next election.

but what will you do if kerry wins the election but fails to deliver anything else? will you work against him for as hard as you have worked against bush? or does his party affiliation give him a pass?

so what will we do america? what will we do if kerry wins, if he wins and continues on the the path of imperialism and domestic dilapidation that was started long ago, and accelerated by bush? if kerry does not repeal the patriot act, and work to reinstate the bill of rights. if he continues with a foreign policy that attempts to over through Severgn governments like iraq, haiti, and iraq. if he continues with the policy of US support for brutal dictators on every part of the globe. if he continues to steal our economy from the living breathing people of this nation and give it to the highest bidding corporate interest. if he continues the cover up of the events of 9-11 and never let the facts of that horrible day be known to the targets of that terrorist attack (regular citizens).

i have already said that i will applaud you if kerry turns out to be the president we all hope for. but if he does not, i expect to see the dem party slap their own and get to work on getting a truly populist candidate to head this huge vacuous party in a progressive manner.

love and understanding all around,

rdfi-defi

[blm]

2. Your solution is let the country suffer through another 4 years of Bush.

What luxury you must live in, Ductape, that you cannot see what others need to survive from day to day, week to week, month to month. Only the rich cannot feel the difference between Bush and Kerry. The poor and working class can FEEL it every day of their lives.

How proud you must be of your efforts to discourage voting for a liberal Democrat. Be honest about it... that is your purpose isn't it? To point out that there is no difference between a liberal Democrat and a conservative Bush in your mind?

[Desertrose]

4. No that is NOT what he is saying....

I think many of us are in need..struggling from day to day...does that mean we want bush to remain? Of course not. In a way you are making his point...why must we be silenced because we don't go along with the "presumtive nominee" and what he stands for?

why can't we speak up with out so many jumping on us - telling us we want bush to remain?? We are arguing apples and oranges...we don't want bush to stay for 4 more years...but we want more than Kerry is offering....and time to be able to make those changes before the cement hardens around us is running out....

Seems clear to me.

Peace
DR

[blm]

10. WHERE is the honesty, Desertrose? Criticism that is accurate is one thing.

Threads whose only point is that there is no difference between Kerry and Bush are DISHONEST.

I always saw value to Ductape's posts until recently when ALL of the posts are meant to convey ONE message only - Kerry and Bush are the same.

When the message is accurate, then I'll applaud it as I have in the past. When it is HORSESHIT meant to discourage voting for a liberal Democrat in November, then I'll call it for what it is.

And even my much respected fellow lefties couldn't shut me up. ;)

[sangh0]

11. And where is the civility?

I wouldn't candy and flowers to be thrown at the person who calls a large portion of DUers "Imperialiberals", "Gradualists", not to mention the various false accusations DF passes around

[info being]

13. Is it dishonest to say that...

There is no difference between Kerry and Bush on:

- Single-payor healthcare
- The war in Iraq
- The Patriot Act
- NAFTA / WTO
- Military spending
- Media consolidation

So, you see, if those are the 4 things a voter cares about, there is no difference. If we believe those things are the root of this country's problems, and that only by fixing them can we move in the right direction, then there is truly no difference.

Does that make sense? Of course there are differences, its just that some would argue there are no important differences.

[sangh0]

15. And its dishonest to say that

There is no difference between Kerry and Bush on:

- Single-payor healthcare
- The war in Iraq
- The Patriot Act
- NAFTA / WTO
- Military spending
- Media consolidation

- Single-payor healthcare - Kerry for, Bush* against
- The war in Iraq - Kerry against, Bush* for
- The Patriot Act - Kerry wants to scale it back, Bush* wants to expand it
- NAFTA / WTO - Kerry wants to enforce it strictly, Bush* will not
- Military spending - Kerry opposes NMD, Bush* supports
- Media consolidation - Kerry opposes, Bush* supports

[blm]

18. Then get INFORMED, because they are different on ALL those issues.

Man, some people are clueless because they WANT to be.

You never studied Kerry's positions yet, right?

[foo_bar]

7. what solution?

the great thing about never supporting anyone (or anything, providing sarcastic denials of strawmen) is never having to be wrong about anything, since there's nothing to be right about. To call it nihilism is to elevate a cowardly feedback loop to philosophy; it's merely a comfortable cave from which to fling guano. The day our moral troglodyte decides to support someone or something in the affirmative is the day he/she has to confess the hypocricy of a universe strictly composed of the indefensible. Even the prolific Langston Hughes occasionally posited a thesis that could be defended or debated.

[WillyBrandt]

26. CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!

Righto!

[Minstrel Boy]

3. "I've seen the future, brother, and it's murder."

When they said, "Repent! Repent!"
I wonder what they meant?

[Desertrose]

5. DF...very powerful

thank you ...am gonna share this one around!!!

So true ...well said....

Peace
DR

[corporatewhore]

6. but imperalism is soo much better under a dem

[ThirdWheelLegend]

9. I like the letter (D) better, its not (R)!

Surface change now!

Go Imperialiberals!

TWL

[Meatshake]

24. Exactly

I know too many people that just vote by the letter next to the names.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi Meatshake!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Dogmudgeon]

8. OK, who is it?

Dean or Kucinich?

I could understand the rhetoric if it was aimed at neo-cons and Bush. But it's the stuff of circular firing squads.

"ImperiaLiberals"? I've heard of "CeLiberals" (Celebrity Liberals) and "Rad-Libs" (Radical Liberals), but this is a new one.

Being solicited for party solidarity by an over-medicated sleep-deprived Coffee Acheiver isn't exactly the jackboot heel of fascism decending on your face forever, nor even an afternoon. If a pushy party whip can "obliterate any vestige of hope you might have had" then your hope is shallow indeed.

The Campaign, the Party, the Government, the USA is YOU. No matter who is president, you have the right and the moral obligation to act on your conscience. But by the same token, don't expect to be able to cry "help, help, I'm bein' oppressed!" when you don't get 100% of your agenda adopted.

My own agenda is much like those of Dean and Kucinich. But do you really think that any president can just wave his hand and decree Utopia complete with stately pleasure domes? Review "How A Bill Becomes A Law". Gradualism isn't some excuse for inaction, it's an acceptance of the sad fact that revolutions kill lots of people and destroy lots of stuff. "Baby steps" and necrosis? Florid metaphors but bad history. Change will happen on its own schedule, and all the ranting in the world won't speed it up. Look at how the neo-Con movement took over the country completely between its inception in 1965 and the electoral farce of 2000. All those necrotic baby steps add up.

Patience doesn't mean passivity. It means living your whole life as a political member of one's community and knowing that no one action will be lost. Our political problems come from people wanting our leaders to do it all for us, and getting it done by yesterday. It's time we de-throned them and did the leading ourselves. Ask any politician with even a speck of idealism left, and s/he'll tell you that it's still a cherished vision.

Change -- progressive change will happen, and I think someone like John Kerry will be pleased to find himself having to catch up with the crowd -- and endorse a Dean or a Kucinich for president in 2008 or 2012, as the case may be.

--bkl

[info being]

14. 100% of our agenda? I'd take 10%. We get 0%.

[sangh0]

16. Then keep calling people names

That will get them to listen to you

[maxanne]

32. paging mr. pot

mr. pot - we have a message for you from a mr. kettle....

[DuctapeFatwa]

31. You have the power to change your government

You also have the power to wrap yourself in the mantra of "twas ever thus" and waive that right.

You do not have a whole hell of a lot of time in which to do either.

[sangh0]

17. So which candidate are you supporting?

If the most liberal Senator in Congress isn't your cup of tea, who are you supporting for President in 2004?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Old and In the Way]

20. Why didn't Bush run as a radical reactionary conservative?

Bush ran as a moderate and has governed as a far right conservative (except on fiscal issues and government interference in the personal affairs of people, of course). It's smart politics to moderate your electoral message to grab the Indies and undecideds who live in the middle.

I know Kerry's record and I know his vision....I happily allow him to moderate his message so he can get elected and get this country back on a progressive footing.

[sangh0]

23. Ummm,

there is no Liberal Party

[Old and In the Way]

22. Good question.

DF seems too busy bashing Kerry to spend much time telling us why we should support his candidate. Maybe that's because he doesn't have one.

[Old and In the Way]

21. ImperiaLiberals?

So many words to say so little.

[WillyBrandt]

25. Reminds me of an Abraham Lincoln quote

"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."

[littlejoe]

27. So, what is YOUR plan of action?

[sangh0]

28. DucttapeFatwa? Are you still around?

You've convinced us. Now let's hear your plan.

[WillyBrandt]

29. To pose superior as the world burns to hell

And mock those fools who are trying to do something to change it.

If someone tries to solve problem A, scold them as dupes and monsters for not addressing the real problem B. If they try to instead solve problem B, scold them for not solving A.

The point, you see, is not to actually affect any change--big or small--that makes the world better. The purpose is to construct contrived rationalizions for sneers.

An analogy. Suppose you're trying to clean up a dirty beach. Imagine now somebody watching, who claims to be an environmentalist, yelling "You're picking up garbage on the beach; the sea is full of trash, and you're wasting time on a little piece of coast. You dumb fuck! Ha!"

It's not an argument, it's a mindless pose, a way to garner emotional satisfaction by pissing on progressives whose idealism hasn't totally fossilized into nihilistic, inert cynicism.

[LandOLincoln]

34. Would somebody please explain to me again the

difference(s) between the far left and the far right?

I gets confoozed, y'see. Their mutual contempt for us sheople and their utter contempt for majority rule does that to me.

[sistersofmercy]

33. Alrighty then...

So I take it you will be voting for Kerry in Nov. O8)