Give money or else....

[Nazgul35]

I've noticed here and around the web that there are many calls for Clark, Dean and Kucinich supporters to "fall in line" and kick in cash to help Kerry defend himself against the coming onslaught...Most of this has been directed at Dean supporters due to their ability to raise $45 million in six months in a crowded field of 10 candidates...

Before I go any further, Tuesday night I sent Kerry $25 and because I've been donating to the ePatriot's fund since last Aug...Kerry will also get an additional $240 from me by the convention...I tried to get many here to give to ePatriots, but many people from all campaigns were reluctant to give "until they knew who the nominee was..." and no one considered calling them traitors, Bush enablers or not real Democrats...

To the point....much of this complaint is misdirected...a simple one minute of addition can show those who would seek to bash those supporters of other candidates that they are misplacing their attack....

To date, John Kerry has received 5,371,421 votes in the primary so far....less than half of the way through the primary...

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/candidates/1724/index.html

More math: Lets say 1/3rd of those are willing to donate cash:


That would be 1,611,426 Kerry supporters....

$10 donation each = $16,114,260
$20 donation each = $32,228,520
$50 donation each = $80,571,300
$100 donation each = $161,142,600

Stop browbeating supporters of other people's campaigns into giving cash when you have a large enough pool of donors to get cash from....

Kerry supporters should be more concerned about getting cash from the very ample pool of potential donors they already have than pissing down the backs of the supporters of the losing candidates by suggesting that if we lose it will be all their fault....

A little perspective please....

[KenLayedOff]

1. As soon as he supports Gay Marriage

I will become more broke and send some cash. Spread the word...

[alcuno]

2. I've got your $5 covered.

Actually, I've been trying to figure out how much more to send to Kerry. Maybe I'll keep track of these ridiculous "support gay marriage or else" posts for the next week or so and tally up $5 for each one.

[Nazgul35]

7. I dont know why...

you think small donor demands are any worse or foolish than large donor demands....

Or do you agree with Rove that money equals democracy?

Why can't everyone be entitled to the same level of respect and consideration that all who give money to a campaign?

Do you think the grass roots should just be an ATM for the Dem candidates...no strings attached?

[alcuno]

11. I find single issue demands to be unhelpful.

The administration has done good work in using gay marriage as a wedge issue. Look how it's working here.

[Nazgul35]

13. but still it is the reality in which you live...

you should not expect other to sacrifice those issues that they hold dear anymore than you would accept someone to ask you to supress yours....

Someone who lives in NYC may think terrorism is the over riding issue...

Someone who has been demeaned and spit on their whole life and only wants to marry the person they love may feel that issue is most important...

Your single issue is getting rid of Bush...you have many people who feel the same way..enough I am sure to raise the proper amount of cash to beat up on Bush....so why attack those who hold to other priciples?

[KenLayedOff]

16. What is your single issue?

You must have at least one.

[alcuno]

48. Actually, I don't.

I've worked for years as a union negotiator and my job has always been to find compromise.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. well then you should have been a Dean supporter

because all those special interests that Kerry collects big bucks for are single issue demands. Dean wanted to get rid of that kind of influence.

[Evil_Dewers]

35. well then you should have been a Dean supporter

Blah...blah...blah...


Yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaarrrrgggggggghhhhh!

Stop bitching.

[maxanne]

51. does this mean

you've given up telling us you used to be one?? LOL

[Evil_Dewers]

57. Does this mean...

Yeeaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

I care not what you believe. Didn't you get my e-mails?

Run along now...

[alcuno]

50. I've been a big Dean supporter; in time and money.

I'm also a pragmatist to the core.

[Renew Deal]

6. Do you a Dem as president?

Because if you do, his position is just fine. I don't agree with him wholly, but I also would rather win. And Kerry will not nullify marriages or civil unions that have occurred. Bush will.

[Bozola]

27. "his position is just fine"?

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1118a.html

Statement from John Kerry on Massachusetts Gay Marriage Ruling


November 18, 2003

For Immediate Release


“I have long believed that gay men and lesbians should be assured equal protection and the same benefits – from health to survivor benefits to hospital visitation - that all families deserve. While I continue to oppose gay marriage, I believe that today’s decision calls on the Massachusetts state legislature to take action to ensure equal protection for gay couples. These protections are long over due.”

--------------------------------------------

It's not like were talking about mixed-marriages or anythings, right?

[liberalnurse]

3. Thats an excellent point!

I'll have to book mark this. It reflects my sentiments completely. kerry has a vast resource of followers who's wallets can be purged. I'm keeping my cash in the local arena.....donating time, money and energy to local democrats running agains stale old republicans.

[Rose Siding]

4. I don't think there will be a problem

"But the Kerry campaign is not intimidated by Bush's war chest, said Kathy Roeder, his spokeswoman.

Referring to former Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean's record-setting fund-raising among Democrats, she said, "The primary already shows that you can't buy an election."

http://www.cleveland.com/election/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1078407042270670.xml

[Nazgul35]

5. that may be a little false bravado

after all that might be true when you have members of the same party who would be hammered if they sink to the level Bushco is going to....

Plus, it is also safe to say that in the final analysis, there wasn't that much different between the candidates...

But if you think that going against Bushco without any cash is feasible...i'm not holding out much hope about our chances....history shows that the repugs can buy elections, they've been doing it ever since 1980 in Presidential and state elections and since 1994 they've been pretty much kicking Dem ass all over the place....

As it stands now, the Kerry campaign said it had raised $2 million since Tuesday night....so they are about $4 million in debt....

What the Kerry campiagn needs to do is figure out how to inspire all those folks who voted for them to do the same thing for him that Dean's supporters did....than we will have no problems...

When we are able to compete near even with repugs, we win every time!!!

[Rose Siding]

8. I should have used

a sarcasm smiley. If we had one :shrug: No, that's not right...:+ Okay, there. It was kind of a joke.

[last1standing]

10. Kerry is no stranger to dirty tricks.

n/t

[jpgray]

9. Can you provide links to these 'give money or else' threads?

I have seen mostly vanity threads about why people will NOT give money to Kerry. Why anyone should care enough about whether or not you are giving money to the point where it's worth dedicating an entire thread to it is beyond me.

If you want to help defeat Bush, give Kerry money. If you dislike Kerry too much to give it to him, give it to MoveOn. If you refuse to help Kerry in any way, shape, or form, that's fine, but why post a thread about it? It's like poking an open sore with a stick.

[Nazgul35]

12. Gee I don't know...

maybe it is because people think their viewpoint should be considered when they are asked to pony up some cash....or don't small donors get the same respect that large donors do...

Are you going to tell me that unions and trial lawyers are not going to get what they want?

Let's just see what happens over the next few weeks....maybe Kerry will raise cash, maybe he won't....

The important question shouldn't be why are the supporters of other candidates not giving cash to Kerry....it should be what is Kerry not doing to get those donor's cash....it's his job to figure it out...

As for where the threads are....come on....I also bring this up because outside the DU world, there is much discussion about Dean meeting with Kerry and should he give Kerry his donor list....there is a large group of people who think he should...and further, that these folks would be scum to refuse....

My point was a simple one. Kerry has the numbers, that's why he is the nominee....it should be relatively easy for him to shatter the money that Dean and Clark raised with the broad support he has....

If the money doesn't come, the people who are going to be blamed are the Dean supporters, to suggest that this is not so would be disingenuous...and blaming them would be nothing more than a witch hunt...

[mikehiggins]

14. Blame the DEAN supporters? That seems pretty far out to me.

The Dean machine generated some $45 million dollars, to a great degree in small amounts. Those amounts were small for a very good reason. The donors don't have a hundred or two hundred or a couple of thousand dollars lying around just aching to be spent on a political campaign.

That money is gone, folks. It is gone and spent and there is no calling it back. Dean supporters put their money where their mouths (and hearts) were but they aren't sitting around clipping coupons and waiting for the monthly dividend check to show up. They are working hard (if they are lucky enough to have a job) and struggling to spring some bucks free to support a candidate.

If Kerry needs money, then he should not expect the Clark supporters or the Dean supporters to finance his campaign. The people he has to talk to are the Kerry supporters. Let THEM put their money where their hearts are. It's their turn in the barrel.

I will donate to the Democratic Nominee after the convention but the idea that anyone can come to me playing a "guilt game" because I don't have the bucks to contribute might as well save their breath.

It ain't going to happen. Like lots of Clark and Dean supporters, I shot my stake betting on the man I thought would be the best candidate for this party. That money is gone. Lots of luck with the fundraising elsewhere.

[jpgray]

15. Blaming Dean supporters for low fundraising would make no sense

If posts crop up of that sort, I'll be right there with you calling them crap. Dean supporters are very welcome to donate to Kerry, as are all the supporters of all the candidates.

There is nothing wrong with a thread encouraging people to donate. Compelling and bullying is something else. You point me to a thread like that, and I'll be as angry as you like. The one thread that came to my mind was one outlining the reasons why the poster would NOT give money to Kerry. That seems to me about as petty as a post compelling or bullying others to give money. Both take something that people are emotional about (i.e. defeating Bush, misgivings about Kerry / disappointment about the primary) and twist a knife into it.

[Nazgul35]

17. Yes...

But you know as well as I do that there are posters on all sides who seek to make this experience as nasty as possible....I am glad for your premptive statement of condemnation....

I as well find those threads that are simply "here's why I am not..." not helpful to the discussion that needs to take place....

I also posted this thread to suggest that it would be very possible...probable even...for people to give to Kerry. Some posters here have already announced that they will give cash and when they see the numbers, may be inspired to give a few bucks....

I will be personally seeking to get a campaign to raise $42 million for House races....which can give $1 million to 42 competative House races to make DeLay's head explode...we can't find 1 million Dems willing to give $42 to help elect a Dem....a candidate who would not be beholden to special interests...1/3rd of those challengers who spend $900k on a House race win....that could be the 15 seats we need to take the House back...

We should run everywhere, harrass them at every opportunity, make them spend cash like they never have before....

[jpgray]

18. Dean's fundraising was exciting, because the impact was tangible

Each person felt like a valuable component of Howard's rise, and felt the donations had an impact on Dean, both on a personal level and on how he carried out his campaign. And they were right. It's one of the reasons I gave the Dean campaign $250 laboriously saved up over a few years. :) The only other $250 spots I gave were to Dennis and Kerry. It had an impact on the savings, but I wanted all those candidates to stay in as long as possible.

But too many DUers think they can judge better what a person should do than that person can his/herself. :( Each DUer I'm sure will work to help in whatever way they feel is right and appropriate. I don't feel the need to prod them or bully them to donate to Kerry. As with Dean, positive threads about WHY someone donated to the campaign coupled with inspiring feedback from the campaign about those donations would be far more helpful than a rant about why everyone should empty their pockets and fall in line.

[JNelson6563]

24. Why just this morning I replied to a thread

where one of our more charming DUers stated that real Democrats will send money to Kerry.

I am sure there are some spiteful people on that list, though, and they wouldn't contribute to Kerry anyway. But the true Democrats on the list will, and many probably already have.

There's that. If someone isn't donating to Kerry it's cause they're spiteful. Not cause they're tapped-out, focusing on other races or just flat out uninspired, nope. It's clear, they are simply spiteful. Unlike the true Democrats. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=431913&mesg_id=432450&page=

So there's your heads up, why don't you jump onto that thread and get all over that one?

Julie

[Cheswick2.0]

30. I wonder if we went and looked, could we find that certain Kerry people on

DU still haven't coughed up any money for Mr Electability.

[JNelson6563]

33. Excellent point

I don't understand the near-panic coupled with claims that millions of Americans want Kerry. It's counter-intuitive. Revealing too. *snicker*

Julie

[sangh0]

34. Grasping at straws

No campaign can win if it assumes that it can only get money from people who have supported it in the past. Any viable campaign will look for new donors. That's particularly true of Democrats who don't have the long list of hard money individuals donors like the Republicans do.

No campaign to my knowledge has ever limited it's fundraising efforts to those who supported it. They all look for new supporters and new donors. That's what a campaign is - a search for new supporters and new donors

[JNelson6563]

39. Seems to me that Kerry supporters

are more interested in guilting or strong-arming Dean supporters and others into professing their intention to support Kerry with $$ and efforts than they are in trying to get those who DO support Kerry to cough up some dough.

At least here in the crazy, mixed up world of DU anyway. :shrug:

Julie

[Bozola]

40. Would it be correct to say that not donating to Kerry IS donating to Bush?

[sangh0]

32. IOW, you can't support your claims

that people are browbeating the supporters of other campaigns for money.

I'm not surprised

[Nazgul35]

38. reread the thread

and you will see anicdotal evidence provided by other posters....

My reason for not coming up with ten threads and multiple other blogs is:

1) I have a life...
2) It was 1:30am and I needed to go to bed...
3) I don't think anything I could come up with would satisfy people who are precluded to doubt...
4) Anyone who was reading this web could easily see that both:
a) people were posting that there were not going to give cash, which I acknowledged several posts above....
b) people in those posts were bashing people for with holding funds...

You will have to ask the original posters of those threads what motivated them to say they werw withholding funds....I don't presume to try and get in other people's heads....

[sangh0]

61. IOW, you can't support your claims

.

[LosinIt]

19. I read somewhere that Kerry's support is a mile wide and a foot deep

No one has the passion for him that we have for Dean. He's not getting a cent from me.

[JNelson6563]

25. More like an inch

I don't understand where all the passion is. They flocked to the polls for Kerry. His supporters remind us constantly Kerry is the people's choice! They don't seem very confident the people are going to fund their choice. Why is that? ;-)

Julie

[Evil_Dewers]

36. No one has the passion for him that we have for Dean.

The passion of the Christ Deanus of Burlington continues even after Dean quit in shame, broke and without winning a state (except for VT, only after he quit).

Hey, is DeanforAmerica.com still pleading for your money?

When they turn their deficit into a surplus, Doc Dean gets to keep the money--tax free.

I think Dean is giving a speech today. I think it'll be on C-Span.

I hope he doesn't solicit money (prostitute himself).

[w13rd0]

20. You make an interesting point...

...it should be fairly easy for Kerry to cull funds from those that voted for him. I hear he has experts mining donation data for just such a purpose. I hope that all those on this board that have aggitated for Kerry have given generously to his campaign. He's gonna need every dime.

[Bozola]

28. You can check who's been naughty or nice at OpenSecrets

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp

I'm in there, many times, for a lot of dosh.

I wonder who isn't.

[dsc]

21. Great post

Thanks for posting it. As one who did post a "why I won't donate thread" it is a direct response to not one, not two, but three different threads that told Dean supporters to give money to Kerry. Plus there were several other posts. I simply don't have tons o money. I refuse to give it to people who wish to amend their state's Constitution to ban my getting married.

[Evil_Dewers]

41. I refuse to give it to people who wish to amend their state's Constitution

What was your candidate's position on gay marriage? I thought he favored "civil unions" only.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1118a.html

Statement from John Kerry on Massachusetts Gay Marriage Ruling


November 18, 2003

For Immediate Release


“I have long believed that gay men and lesbians should be assured equal protection and the same benefits – from health to survivor benefits to hospital visitation - that all families deserve. While I continue to oppose gay marriage, I believe that today’s decision calls on the Massachusetts state legislature to take action to ensure equal protection for gay couples. These protections are long over due.”

[dsc]

43. Show me the amendment that Dean backed in Vermont

Oh wait you can't because like the Easter Bunny it doesn't exist. Dean did oppose marrige, but he made it clear he would veto a DOMA law and was against an amendment banning marriage. Kerry is for one. I don't care what rights he wishes to give in return, the fact he is for an amendment which would ban marriage to me and every gay person after me until the sun dies out is the problem.

[Evil_Dewers]

47. Here's the problem...

Kerry can't say he's for gay marriage and get elected, since 70% of the country aren't as enlightened as you and I and the neanderthals already think JFK is a goddamn liberal from Massachusetts.

Of course, the "true" progressives in here tell me Kerry is a moderate, or "Bush lite." Talk about having it both ways!!!

Bush portrayed himself as slightly right leaning towards the center (a right leaning centrist/moderate) when he was running in 2000. He lied--or was just saying what he had to say to help get the prick elected. He's the most "uncompassionate conservative" since Ghenkis Khan.

[dsc]

49. I am not asking him to be for gay marriage

I am asking him to refrain from advocating amending constitutions. That is the moderate position.

[Evil_Dewers]

60. Kerry is not in favor of amending the US constitution to limit

the rights of people.

That's the George Bush position.

And Kerry has no formal influence over what the Mass state legislature does, anymore than Kerry has influence over what the Mas Supreme Court decides.

[CWebster]

22. or else what?

Let they who done got hoodwinked into voting for the "most electible" pay the wealthiest senator's way. Or let him buy his own election.

[Walt Starr]

23. Not one dime nor even a second of activism. NBMV

Nothing But My Vote.

That's all the bore gets.

[Demobrat]

53. I made sacrifices to give Dean four figures.

Small ones, to be sure, but for the chance to have a president who worked for me, and not his corporate bosses, I was willing to sit at home in front of the TV eating beans on toast instead of having drinks and dinner with friends. Would I do that for a pushpolling plaigarist? Not on your life. I don't even think I can bring myself to vote for him. He'll just have to take CA without me.

[Atlant]

26. Kerry's support is a mile wide and a dime thin.

People are voting for him because they're heard he's "Mr. Electable".
They don't actually care deeply about him. And this will show in
the finances.

Me? I don't even care enough about him to vote for him, so I certainly
wouldn't consider sending him any money. I deliberately walked away
from Kerry after his IWR vote.

Atlant

[Cheswick2.0]

29. Really! & where are all the folks with the big bucks for the Osama adds

They gave plenty for those Osama (and other attack adds)adds. We know that Gep, Clark and Kerry supporters were contributors to that phony 30 day corporation and had plenty of money to "Stop Dean". So why can't they cough up the big bucks for Kerry? Along with money from the people who voted for him in the primary, they should be just fine without the 50 bucks I will be donating to senate and congressional races.

[Evil_Dewers]

37. Howard Dean went skiing in CO while Kerry was dodging AK-47 fire

in Vietnam.--Robert Nofacts.

Why didn't the "passion" for Dean lead to votes?

I was never that passionate for Dean. I gravitated to his campaign and gave money to Dean and voted for him because he was the first Dem to attack Bush and HIS shitty war. Kerry and Edwards and Kucinich and Gephardt and Lieberman could do nothing to prevent Bush from invading Iraq. Nothing. They could only oppose the war on principle. DK did oppose the House Joint resolution on Iraq (there is no real IWR)--that is a made up term like "partial birth abortion."

Kerry, Edwards, et. al. would have been blasted by the Bush cabal from now until November as "weak on defense" or "unfit to be commander in chief" if they didn't affirm the "House Joint resolution on Iraq." The House Joint Resolution was lose-lose for any Dem Congressman -- no matter how they voted. DK voted nay--and look how Democrats have rewarded him (18 delegates total), compared to 1500 for Kerry.

Howard Brush Dean had the luxury of not having to vote for the House Joint Resolution. So did Clark and Sharpton and Braun.

Anyway, to sum up: ABB, baby!

I thank Dean for lighting a bonfire under John Frickin' Kerry's ass and waking him the fuck up.

But I'll be damned if I fall on my sword for Howard Brush Dean.

Dean was always a closet elitist pretending to be a liberal reformer.

[RetroLounge]

44. Clue coming your way...

Dean isn't running anymore...

[Evil_Dewers]

46. Dean isn't running anymore...

Tell that to the Dean Kool aid drinkers. They think he's still running. He only "suspended his campaign."

[Missy Vixen]

56. I'm sure that the Kerry folks won't even miss our filthy lucre

>Tell that to the Dean Kool aid drinkers. They think he's still running. He only "suspended his campaign."<

I don't drink Kool Aid.

I know that it's such a thrill for those who weren't Dean supporters to laugh at us. While you're laughing, chew on this.

My husband and I, prior to Dean's candidacy, had NEVER contributed to a Presidential campaign. We own our home. We're in our early 40's, with disposable income because we don't have children. We're not wealthy, but we are (knock on wood,) gainfully employed, and we sent a tidy sum to the Governor's campaign. We have not maxed out our ability to contribute yet, either.

There were hundreds of thousands of those who had never gotten involved in a campaign before that supported Dean, and many of them are under 30. They opened their wallets as well, and it translated into $41 million in contributions.

Do you think that those reading the stuff that passes for "dialogue" on this forum are going to race to your candidate with wallets open? How about even VOTING in November? We'll vote, because we have no other choice. I worry about those who are younger, a bit more idealistic, and wondering if there's any use in voting at all.

At the same time, the scorn, the ridicule, and the continuing to bait Dean supporters at every turn have shown me that the best use for our remaining cash is (like another poster mentioned,) splitting it between local candidates and moveon.org. After all, we wouldn't want your candidate to be saddled with Dean supporter cash.

Julie

[Evil_Dewers]

58. I know that it's such a thrill for those who weren't Dean supporters

I was a Dean supporter--that's why I get to make fun of YEEEEAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!

It is like a Pole telling Polish jokes.

Maxanne called for a jihad against me -- but I only make fun of the Kool aid drinkers when they attack Kerry. Put a leash on your Deanamaniacs and I shall cease and desist.

[Demobrat]

59. Kerry got more votes than Dean,

therefore he has more supporters than Dean, therefore he should have absolutely no problem raising more money than Dean, therefore he doesn't need mine. End of story.

[maxanne]

52. save your energy

RetroLounge. The poster you've engaged spends more time bashing Dean than promoting his own candidate.

[Evil_Dewers]

55. Yada yada yada...

I only point out the truths about Dean and other candidates when Kerry is libeled.

[Demobrat]

42. Kerry doesn't need pennies from the peasants.

I'm sure the special interests who have supported him for the past 30 years will come through just fine.

[Protagoras]

45. Split your donations

Give half of whatever to Kerry and half to Moveon.org.

Kerry will need it, but Moveon.org is going to get a lot of bang for the buck in the next eight months if we keep them fueled.

[citizen snips]

54. Sorry I have no money to give.

:cry: