I'm an Edwards supporter, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired.....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

... of the Clinton bashing. I'm not a Clinton fan, but I'm going to end up becoming one if the shit continues. I swear it. I've never heard such venom. Granted, she's a great debater and has a good head on her shoulders but she doesn't have a temperament like Mother Teresa. So F what????? You people are really making me look at her with MUCH better eyes, you know? Every F time you say something F stupid, I end up liking her more.

But more than anything, I'm really tired of the Republican plants in this forum PRETENDING to be Democrats or independents saying there's no one to vote for so they won't vote. To all you Repugnicans in here trying to make it seem that you're Democrats not voting, you can all just kiss my @$$. I know approximately 200-300 Democrats, and not ONE of them is planning to not vote. You can take your little bullshit game back to your GOP masters, kneel in front of them and give them one big huge long @#$!@#^.

[saracat]

1. Don't know if they are GOPers but the Clinton bashing is getting old.And I say this as one who is

quick to call her out.It has been one long attack and most are frivolous!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. I suspect they're Republicans. Just when I thought I couldn't hate Republicans more.....

... along come these sh*theads. Sheesh

[emilyg]

10. Thank you saracat.

[physioex]

3. Former Edwards Supporter....

Turned Obama supporter. I am no fan of Hillary. She voted for the war in Iraq and supported Kyl-Lieberman. If she does win the nomination I will vote for her holding my nose.

I am sorry to hear you are going to support a candidate based on whay other people are saying rather than looking at the issues and position taken....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I haven't yet, but let me tell you, the more I hear her being bashed, the more I'm LIKING her....

.. it's getting RIDICULOUS.

[patrice]

9. Your characterization of her reasons for supporting her candidate are Presumptious to say the least.

Are you so naive that you don't see how presumptious you are?

RESPECT is what makes relationships functional. Not paternalistic talking points.

[Auntie Bush]

37. How come you could forgive Edwards for co-sponsoring the IWR...but you

don't want to vote for Hillary because she voted for it. They both think they made a mistake and regret their votes...though they express it in different ways...mean the same thing though. I can certainly accept your not liking Hillary...but for the IWR vote...that stuns me. Just confused about your reasons.

[physioex]

43. Hmmmm....

Ok look did Hillary come out and say, "I made a mistake". I did hear Edwards say such a thing. Most if not all liberals are forgiving. Did we hear that from Hillary, "I made a mistake"? It is something the Clintons as a family have trouble saying. I don't hold anything against Bill for having the affair but atleast he shouldn't have made things worse by not admitting his mistakes.

[Auntie Bush]

64. I thought we were talking about Hillary and Edwards?

How did Bill get into this? Oh, I forgot all roads lead to Bill. lol Everything is Bill's fault.

Seriously, why does Hillary have to use the same exact words you want her to use or the same ones Edwards used? Can't she say it in her own way (kinda beat around the bush lol)? We all know what she meant. Why should she set herself up for ridicule as a flip-flopper...which was poisonous ...before all the Rethugs flip-flopped on the the stage. You really do know she is sorry...we all do... so get on with the forgiving mode and vote for Hillary. You won't be sorry! She knows her stuff and is ready to go.....

[Laelth]

76. I am not so certain she's sorry, personally.

I am one of those who need to hear an apology clearly, or I distrust the would-be-apologizer. But that's just me. I will still vote for Hillary if she's the nominee.

-Laelth

[patrice]

4. I hate bashing!!! H or B . . . Bashing drives me toward the bashee.

The only explanation for some significant portion of all of the nastiness is that both campaigns are fraught with trolls.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. I think this forum is FILLED to the gills with Repugnican plants.....

... I posted this before and I was attacked (by the same Republican plants - you know the ones that say there's no one to vote for so they're not voting?). I am now more convinced than ever that this forum has become filled with Republican @-HOLES.

[patrice]

16. Let's all call them out every chance we get. Tell them Democrats don't vote for Repuglicans. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. We absolutely need to! Thank you! nt

[intheozone]

6. A lot of Obama's supporters behave like the rightwingers!

I don't know why they do, but they do. Maybe they are just really young and don't know the difference, maybe they are just too enthusiastic or maybe they are just hateful people, I really don't know. But I do know that they turned me off completely before the SC primary. I won't nothing to do with them or their candidate now.

:(

[patrice]

21. What do you want to bet they f-ing disappear after they get their way?

Local grassroots activism? No, I think we're talking about those who are used to paying others to do what they want done, or letting their churches do it.

I'll bet they are no where to be found when it comes to working with us on local issues!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. that's mighty special of you. as if your mind weren't already made up.

:eyes: HRC has never been my choice, but it's certainly not something as silly and trite as something her supporters said. As an adult, I was quite capable of making up my own mind. And from your ivory tower perhaps you could study up on the proper use of the word "won't" as opposed to "want".

[kestrel91316]

7. I've assumed for months that ANYONE who nastily bashes ANY of

our Dem candidates is a RW plant. Regardless of who they CLAIM to support.

[patrice]

12. I think you are absolutely right about this.

Bashers are the enemy.

Respect for others is the hallmark of our party.

FYI: I also suspect that anyone who is against Election Reform Now is also a DINO.

[FogerRox]

29. Yeah, really,

Respect for others is the hallmark of our party.

Thats spot on. There should be something thats fundamental & basic, in that hallmark.

[patrice]

34. This is a principle upon which I function.

We need to ask these things of one another in order to figure out how to function together.

I do not tolerate lack of respect for anyone.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. I'm becoming more and more convinced that they are Repuke plants as well....

... NO ONE can now convince me otherwise.

[kestrel91316]

63. They show up during the pre-primary campaign to sow dissention

and stir up bad feelings; they NEVER contribute meaningfully to rational discussions; and they absolutely NEVER post anywhere but on political threads.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

67. Wouldn't you just love to kick the asses of every Republican plant? It'd be so satisfying nt

[Turn CO Blue]

70. Ding, ding, ding! They only post about candidates and the

campaigns. You don't see certain posters contributing to any other types of threads, not issue threads, or news threads, not even in the lounge.

[Guaranteed]

8. Dude, if you don't understand the bitterness toward her- and her husband-

you weren't paying attention for the past six years.

They fucking abandoned us. OK? Now they're paying for it.

[MichiganVote]

14. LOL! You think politicians are parents? Nobody wanted the Clintons around the great Gore campaign

And Kerry had no use for them either.

[physioex]

18. I have some serious disagreements with the Clintons

One of the biggest is NAFTA which is the reason we are in this mess, and takes a whole lot of blame for our illegal immigration. When the corn prices fell in Mexico, the workers had nowhere to go but....

[MichiganVote]

26. As do I. Bill Clinton wanted the presidency more than he wanted the sort of

progressive ideas that I suspect people are after in the Obama candidacy. But B. Clinton did see that his government was managed. No Katrina's, no bridges falling down and a strong uptick in people being able to buy single family homes. So like them all, he fell down in some areas and improved other areas.

Many more elites than Bill Clinton called the shots on Nafta.

[physioex]

31. I can agree with that....EOM

[Guaranteed]

27. No- I'm talking about LEADERSHIP in standing up to the Bush Administration.

No one in our party had a bigger name than the two of them. Yet, where were they for those horrible years pre-and-post Iraq invasion? Nowhere to be found.

They skipped out. Never saw either of them on one show or in one newspaper making one strong statement opposing what was going on- because they're triangulators who, really, don't give much of a shit about their country. They're in it for their own ambition- so they didn't want the attention. They weren't willing to put themselves on the line.

In fact, if I had a nickel for every time one of them came out saying something SUPPORTIVE of Bush's policies, I'd be rich. That was the only time we heard from them- when they were deliberately distancing themselves from what was right.

They had opportunity after opportunity to show that they had the strength to lead us in the right direction, and did not take even one. Not one.

Now you clowns who apparently weren't even watching what was going on at the time have the nerve to come in here and criticize US, those with memories longer than the last five minutes, for holding these two responsible, as Democratic leaders, for their failures of character?

Well, I have zero respect for that.

[MichiganVote]

33. What clown are you talking about sir? You're welcome to any opinion of Clinton you want.

But the last time I checked DU is a place that is capable of civil disagreements.

[CoffeeCat]

15. I hope people don't think that...

...discussing Hillary's behavior and her policies is "bashing".

I think we can have fruitful discussions without name calling and manipulating.

However, I'm unclear what constitutes "bashing".

I'm very upset about her pro-war record, and I don't start posts about it,
but I do add to the discussion.

I think it's important. I know my posts on DU don't make any sort of difference
in the real world. It's not like we're affecting polls.

However, I get really upset and scared when people miss the big picture on Hillary's
history with the neocons.

I hope that people aren't trying to chill the truth, or logical discourse, with these
posts.

[Cha]

24. Anyone who thinks it's

clinton bashing hasn't been paying attention..and threatening us with becoming a supporter is really a turn off.

[CoffeeCat]

30. I can't imagine anyone making a....

...voting decision based on select posts from a messageboard.

I consider my vote a lot more serious than that.

[Cha]

35. That's why I think it's all

a dramatic egotistical show for whatever sticks, consumption.

[CoffeeCat]

47. I've never really understood...

...the whole, Oh-geez-I'm-so-frantic-about-a-post mentality.

This is an anonymous, political messageboard, for Pete's sake.

How can you complain about the lack of decorum that arises when you swim in an online toilet?.

Gee, let's all walk into a strip joint, and complain about the lack of class and manners.

:eyes:

[Cha]

51. Let's complain about the

lack of clothes!

[Bongo Prophet]

75. If you see DU as an online toilet, that certainly explains things quite explicitly.

Some of us have the idea that we can build community, and communicate freely with each other.
Some think that the majority of free people can come to a safe area of the commons, and reason together.

Aspirations are good, right?

This is not walking into a strip joint and complain - this is a board that was a real oasis, where people could talk openly at times when the pressure against ANY anti-Bush points of view were looked down upon, often by family members and in red state areas with little support. This is a place where people we don't know in physical space became friends of the mind and heart, where we talked of things we could NEVER say even to co-workers or family. We have had these new friends and compatriots die or be killed in Iraq and elsewhere.

Yes, there fights and disagreements, alliances and unlikely truces, agreements to work together on some points while disagreeing on others.
Then around last summer there was a big influx of new posters, and the place darkened - insults became the norm rather than the exception. Each side in these increasingly childish and petty fights over media propelled fluff drowned out, and eventually drove out, the more reasoned among us.

Some people don't like that.
I am sorry about your point of view that our community is a toilet -- if more people would stop TREATING IT LIKE ONE, it would seem LESS so, and we can realize a higher potential in this social space.

We can HOPE for a CHANGE, but WE have to make it happen together.
I beg you to reconsider and work toward higher levels of discourse, but I am not really "frantic" - I just know we can do better.

[cali]

17. The Clinton bashing?

Take another look at the front page of GDP: Obama the coke addict of 8 years, Obama the religious fanatic, etc, etc. Obama bashing outweighs Clinton bashing. And there's too much of both.

Interesting that you only care about one, and are perfectly content with the other.

Impossible to take that seriously.

[physioex]

23. I am sorry to hear...

DU has disintegrated in taking about frivilous issues like religion, drug usage, etc.... Although I do not like the Clinton's, I never bash then on the Monica issue since I think it was a private matter and should have been such.

[Hoof Hearted]

19. AWESOME Sarah! K&R. There are plants in here pretending on both sides, destructive UGLY posts.

They're SO transparent, it's incredible.

[patrice]

32. It's the only reasonable explanation for what I've seen: H & O

No one intending to support a candidate would act the way I've seen around here. Arrogance, Dismissive, Paternalistic, Authoritarian, Minimizing others, Dis-respectful of Differences, Vindictive, Petty, Unpleasant . . . .

Hope? :rofl:

Trust? :rofl:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Thanks! Republican plants are VERY transparent! nt

[totodeinhere]

20. Why don't you also say that you are getting pretty sick and tired of the Obama bashing?

Both sides have been bashed.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. I agree. Both have been bashed by Republican plants creating havoc. nt

[Colobo]

22. Sarah, what about the Obama bashing by Clinton supporters?

How does it make you feel?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

48. MOST of the individuals attacking one or the other are REPUBLICAN PLANTS.

The sooner you realize that, the better for you.

[stevenleser]

25. Also former Edwards supporter now Obama supporter...

I penned this article earlier today... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x335558

Depending on your viewpoint, I guess one could stretch and say I was bashing. I'm looking to promote who I now think is the best Democrat we could nominate who is still in the race. I offered some of my thinking as to why I think Obama is that candidate. To do that, I had to say why I think he is superior to Hillary. I dont think I was bashing her, but again, some people might think so.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. My friend, your post did NOT consist of bashing anyone. I was talking about bashers.....

... which are around here and I'm CERTAIN are Republican plants.

[burythehatchet]

28. you need professional help.

[boston bean]

38. you have been here long enough to know the jig. and still you can't be

honest with yourself, only condescending and rude to other real duers.

you really should be ashamed of yourself.

[burythehatchet]

42. Yeah, you've managed to make me ashamed of myself, I might not be able

to smack idiot posters who have no other tune to sing besides "you're a Republican". I hope I can recover.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. Huh? Why? Because I've correctly identified Republican plants creating havoc in this forum?

I don't think so.

[BlackVelvet04]

39. There are obviously lots of plants.

So many people forget the last 7 years that the right has been encroaching more and more on birth control and abortion rights. After looking at all of the voting records and the issues I've decided that voting in my best interests but also the best interests of the next generation of women is the way to go for me. All of these young women have no idea what it was like before birth control was readily available and abortion was legal. I refuse to compromise on these issues and twice Obama was a no vote in the senate. If he can't be bothered to vote for issues important to women I can't be bothered to vote for him.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Edwards supporter and I will vote for Clinton simply to vote against Obama.

And his supporters make me ill. But that isn't my reason for voting against him. He is a liar. He said he wouldn't run in '08 and he did. He planned to run when he said he wouldn't. That makes him a LIAR! So I will vote against him and vote for Hillary if Edwards isn't on my state's primary ballot. I hope Hillary beat out Obama for the Dem nomination. It will make it just that much easier for me to vote in the GE.

[KittyWampus]

41. You are so full of crap. Here's a list of trash Hillary supporters have RIGHT NOW on this page:

Obama pushing gods and guns in Idaho
Obama student of radical black activist
Obama will invade Pakistan
Obama=Black Romney
Obama/Coke
Obama supporters cultists
Obama has no policies

All of these are current threads going right now in this forum and you have the fucking NERVE to say you are sick of the Hillary bashing?

And this is the SECOND identical thread YOU posted saying this.

Admit you're biased because you have just been exposed. Maybe you're bitter because your candidate couldn't make it as the one who competes with Hillary.

And this leaves out the Obama will invade Kenya because his father was born there.

Oh, and the Rezco non-story where Obama has not been indicated in ANY wrong doing yet everday, he's supposed to prove he's innocent.

[burythehatchet]

44. not only that, if you disaree with her you're a Republican. It's axiomatic.

This sanctimonious bs is pathetic.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. Look, Republican plants are bashing both, and creating havoc....

... sure, there might be a FEW Dems doing that, but the majority of the @-holes attacking each of the candidates viciously, are Republican plants. Same sh*t with the ones saying, "Oh there's NOBODY to vote for."

I've actually MET one Republican plant. This was back in 2000, before I knew such sh*tbags existed. Now it's clear these people are there for destroying the possibilities of Dems getting in the White House. Repukes stop at nothing. They'll even donate to the weakest Dem candidates. They'll do anything to keep Dems out of the White House.

[Alexander]

60. So if you admit it happens to "both" candidates, why single out one?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

66. I don't know....

...I guess I just saw quite a few slurs about her, and it brought me right back to the 8 years of Clinton, and President Clinton and H. Clinton and the way both were dragged through the F coals by Republicans. This just threw me over the edge. And I'm not even a Clinton supporter.

[Triana]

49. Same here: Tired of the Clinton-bashing and the Obama-preening...

..puhleez y'all. GET OVER YOURSELVES!

UNcommitted voter here - my candidate's out - I got no coin in any of what's left.

[Joe the Revelator]

50. Please explain to me why "bashing" would drive you towards a candidate...

instead of something that matters, like, I don't know, issues?

[unkachuck]

52. divisive, divisive....

"I'm really tired of the Republican plants in this forum PRETENDING to be Democrats or independents saying there's no one to vote for so they won't vote."

....there IS no non-corporate candidate to vote for (no one) but I'm still going to vote (in the primary)....is that ok?

....maybe those who go around accusing others of being 'Republican plants' are the Republican plants....this could get tricky

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Let me put it to you this way......

the MAJORITY of individuals in here bashing and creating havoc in this forum, are REPUBLICAN PLANTS.

[Alexander]

58. The Shillbots said Obama is a crack-dealing Muslim gay homophobe.

And you complain about the Clinton bashing. :eyes:

Apparently, you see what you want to see. I suspect even if every DU post became sunshine and flowers, you'd still vote for Hillary. Because you want to.

Vote how you want. Just don't use such a weak excuse.

[newmajority]

77. And apparently all Obama supporters are just slightly to the left of Fred Phelps

in their hatred of gays. One Hillbot has repeated that script in numerous threads.

[TexasObserver]

59. I agree, and I'm no Hillary fan, either.

Anyone who starts threads like they're lobbing mortar rounds according to a grid gets either Ignored or Hidden. Doesn't matter who they claim to support or who they are attacking. Frankly, I think some of the Obama bashers posing as Hillary supporters are disruptors trying to make Hillary look worse. I suspect the same of some of the more virulent Obama supporters.

I do not favor the use of the word bashing, however, because it's used to dismiss legitimate lines of criticism. I prefer to use the flamebait standard. If the title says flamebait, why even go into it? Flames die when denied oxygen.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

71. Thanks. And I'm not making this stuff up. Republican PLANTS are part of the Rovian....

... techniques these sh*theads use. They used it in 2000 BIG TIME. They had Republican plants all over AOL Democratic Party chatrooms, they had Republican plants all over every Democratic Party blog, they had Republican plants starting Democratic-seeming blogs only to create fracturing ideology that they hoped would spread and fracture the Dems.

As if I already did not HATE these MFs (pardon the French), they're back once again, this time in DU trying to f*ck with us by attacking each candidate viciously AND pretending to be Dems that will not vote. I could just puke thinking about Republicans. They make me sick.

[madmom]

61. the main reason it looks like a lot of repugs post here is because when the

poster has no legitimate argument they resort to personal attacks just like the repugs. So if the shoe fits.......

[MadBadger]

62. But you're fine with the Obama bashing...right?

[femrap]

65. One thing that is coming out of this

election...people are finally seeing how much misogyny is out there...and how damn hateful and vile it is. That's a big part of the venom.

Did you hear over at Daily Kos that Mr. Kos himself (an ex-repugnant) demanded that everyone stop attacking HRC because it was turning people (especially women) toward her. He's of course an Obama boy...and he likes women in their place.

I wanted Edwards as well...HRC is my second choice. She'll be good for women and children...restore the programs and $$$ for them...and get rid of horrid Gag Rule that is killing women. She might actually do something about DARFUR.

But most important, I think she can win the General Election. I don't think Obama can. And really that is what's it all about.

[Bonobo]

68. Sarah, if you would support Hillary because of some vocal DU'ers, you are not

worthy of trying to convince. It's the most asinine reason I EVER heard for voting for someone.

Do what you want.

[maximusveritas]

69. I agree with your 2nd paragraph

But I'm not sure why you left off the fact that there has been just as much Obama bashing.

[Turn CO Blue]

72. I'm an Edwards supporter sick of ALL the bashing of H and O.

Just sick and tired of it.

Neither of these candidates are the baby-eating, old-lady beating demons they're being made out to be. And if anyone here were to tell the truth, H and O seem to actually like each other.

And you're dead right that a lot of these posters are Puke plants. As discussed upthread, these highly visible posters feel the need to post something every effing three seconds, and it's always some crap about the other candidate or campaign. They don't seem to post positive stuff about their own supposedly preference. And they are often hit-and-run - they don't responsd to posters. The real supporters answer challenges - at least some do some of the time. You don't see these Puke-plant posters in the breaking news threads, or in the issues threads, or even in the DU Lounge. They give themselves away.

For example, there is one completely FAKE supporter who vaguely posts words akin to an real Obama supporter (using words like hope and dreams, etc.) but is completely lacking in sincerity and is utterly vague.

[Stand and Fight]

73. I'm with you there...

Especially when you actually study the candidate, read about their positions on the issues, and listen to what they have to say...

Bill Mahar said it best a couple of weeks ago on his show, "If you hate Hillary, it's all about you."

[Raine]

74. I'm a former Edwards supporter now behind Obama

I don't believe I have bashed Hillary at all. I have stood up for Obama in threads where he is being bashed by the Hillary supporters. I see equal bashing and I don't like to see it for either of them. Decide your candidate on their merits not on the flaws of their supporters, they aren't responsible for their follower's behavor.