Why I will vote for, but not give money to, John Kerry

[dsc]

It comes down to his position on the amendment. I just can't give money to a candidate who takes the position that I should never be allowed to marry. And that is precisely what he did.

For those who wish to make this about Dean instead of Kerry, I will adress for a second why their positions were different. In Vermont, there was a court case which authorized either marriage or civil unions. In Massachusetts the court is calling for marriage and not civil unions. Neither of these victories were won in Cracker Jack boxes. They are not activist courts ruling tyranically. They are courts which did their jobs. I wish Vermont's would have done their's a bit differently but they didn't. Dean followed the court's decision. Kerry is trying to over rule his. That is a big difference. In short, Dean left marriage to another day and followed his court's decision Kerry is overruling his court and forever banning gay marriage.

This isn't my stubborn holding to a word. Currently there is a huge difference. Marriage might be portable while civil unions aren't. Marriage has federal rights, civil unions don't. But there is also powerful symbolism at work. Saying I can't have the word marriage does beg the following question. Just what quality do I lack that pretty much every straight person has? It isn't like we make marriage licences hard to get. Plunk down some money, agree to marry a non relative of the opposite gender, and you are good to go. We have had murders marry behind prison walls. We have had dead beat parents marry. We have had known wife beaters marry. There is literally no crime bad enough that we take away your right to marry. Yet, Kerry wants to take mine away forever.

Any Democrat gets my vote. I can't be that choosy this time. But, my money is another matter. I can't give to every campaign which will want my money. We hope to have a competative race to retire a Republican incumbnet House member, and my former Congressman is running for Senate. Both of these races are likely to take precidence over Kerry. I think that is my right. So barring my winning the lottery or Cafaro tanking, Kerry will have to do with my vote, and maybe some work. That seems more than fair.

[slinkerwink]

1. I agree with you, and this is one of my main disagreements with Kerry

he gets my vote and nothing else.

[sampsonblk]

2. Same Here (Clark Supporter)

I will vote for Kerry and encourage others to do the same. What's the alternative?? But he voted for this stupid war. And no matter how his people spin it, THAT I will not forgive.

What a dummy I am. When it came to a vote, I was sure Kerry would oppose it. But he caved. He gets my vote, but only to be rid of Bush. Nothing more.

[KC21304]

3. Where do you get the idea Kerry is for over ruling the court

and forever banning gay marriage ? He can believe marriage is between and man and a woman because of his religion, but he has said it should be up to the states and he is against a Constitutional amendment.

[dsc]

4. He has stated repeatedly

including in Youngstown Ohio, that he is in favor of amending the Massachusetts Constitution to ban gay marriage if it also provided for civil unions.

[onehandle]

6. If the Supreme Court is stacked in Bush's second term...

You'll have a Lot more to worry about.

Anyway, he does not support a US Constitutional Amendment.

When Kerry is elected, he will put acceptable judges in SCOTUS.

Gay marriage will be upheld by this court and the states will have no recourse.

Even the current court will likely uphold it.

Same path as sodomy laws.

Kerry knows this.

[dsc]

8. actually no

I have no idea why people are saying the Lawerence case would lead to a gay marriage ruling. Only O'Connor used the equal protection reasoning that would lead to that. The other 5 used a privacy argument which would not lead that direction. I honestly don't see the current court going that way, though admittedly I was wrong on Lawerence in the first place since I thought we would lose.

[onehandle]

12. What are the odds if the Court is stacked the other way?

None. Not in our lifetimes.

[KenLayedOff]

5. his religion??????????????????????

That is total BS. "his religion" forbids abortion, birth control and most every other sexual freedom progressives support.

If he is going to not support Gay Mariage then "his religion" is not a good enough excuse.

[KC21304]

7. I have no idea if his religion is the reason for his beliefs,

but if they are, as long as he doesn't let them determine his actions they should not be of consequence. I am taking Kerry at his word when he says it should be left up to the states and he is against a constitutional amendment. I did not hear him say he would overturn the Mass. state court ruling. How would he do that, by the way ?

[dsc]

9. by an amendment to the Massachusetts constitution

and again he has repeatedly endorsed this.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. You're Taking a Fair Position, IMO

I totally get where you're coming from.

DTH

[MurikanDemocrat]

11. Then you will love this thread outlining Kerry's complete platform

that would grant same-sex couples ALL of the 1,049 FEDERAL benefits married heterosexuals enjoy.

I believe his position on "marriage" is that "marriage" is a religious term that must be kept out of the Constitution because of the separation of church and state requirement, and that individual religions and churches must determine the "marriage" question on thier own.

But I know you will not accept that and will not hear of that, and I'm not going to argue with you over it either.

Here's the thread on his Civil Unions Platform recently disclosed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=434459&mesg_id=434459

[dsc]

13. Then answer the question

Just what quality do I lack, that I shouldn't have marriage? I think that is a fair and legitimate question.

[MurikanDemocrat]

14. Your question was answered in my previous post

And like I said, I knew you would refuse to see it or accept it. You are trying to make it a personal question about YOU or about gays. I am NOT, and neither is Kerry. It's about the term "marriage" being a RELIGIOUS issue, and the separation of church and state.

But you have a lot of time, energy, and emotion invested in anti-Kerry sentiment, and you are not going to acknowledge that it's not about persecution of you as a gay.

As your arguments get shot down, one by one, like just now with ALL FEDERAL rights of hetero marriages, you didn't acknowledge that, but instead personalized it into "what quality do you lack??" You can have it - just find a CHURCH that will give it to you and perform the ceremony. All "marriages" are 'rooted' in religion, it's only a legal status where the Constitution is concerned (i.e. taxes, etc.)

That's why I am not going to argue this with you. I think you prefer this to be unsolvable. I'm not angry about it, I just think you need to find your own way with it.

Peace :hi:

[dsc]

15. marriage isn't a religious term

that is unadulterated nonsense. Ship captains perform marriages, judges perform marriages. It has nothing at all to do with religion.